Re: High TSH w/Armour

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/17/2004 10:59:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,

hummer6989@... writes:

> . In early August, I saw another doctor and he

> prescribed Armour Thyroid (60mg). Since then, I have worked up to 3

> grains (180mg). In August my TSH was 11 and I just had a new test

> and it is up to 20.9

Have you been tested for Hashimoto's antibodies?

cindi

[Guest guest]

Peggy, let's talk. First, how much Synthroid were on you when you

switched to Armour??

Do you have the labs right in front of you? i.e. are they for sure

your labs? Sounds like a ridiculous question, but mixups have

happened.

Am I understanding that your TSH was 11 when you started Armour? And

now, two months later, at 3 grains, your TSH is up to nearly 21????

That is really bizarre, but could also point to the flairing on

antibodies...if so that will stabilize eventually on the amount of

Armour you will be on.

Do your Armour tablets have an A on them?

Another problem: you really need to be taking your Armour

sublingually, not swallowing them. And try taking 2 grains in the

morning, and the other grain in the early afternoon. When you go up

to 4 grains, you could do the 2 grain sublingually in the morning,

and one in the early afternoon, another later afternoon....etc. or

the other two in the early afternoon. But do try sublingual.......

Are you on estrogen, which can bind the thyroid hormones?

Have you had your Ferritin tested? Adrenals??

Janie

:

>

> I had previously been on Synthroid for over 15 years and still had

> many hypo symptoms. In early August, I saw another doctor and he

> prescribed Armour Thyroid (60mg). Since then, I have worked up to

3

> grains (180mg). In August my TSH was 11 and I just had a new test

> and it is up to 20.9. I am so upset about this jump in my TSH. I

> called and spoke to my dr's assistant. I didn't think to ask her

> what my FT3 or FT4 was. She did call in a prescription of 4

grains

> of Armour. I was also upset that it had been almost 2 weeks and

my

> dr. didn't call me to raise up my Armour. I had several other

tests

> done and will see my dr. on the 29th. Does anyone have any ideas

why

> my TSH would keep climbing? I am taking my Armour first thing in

the

> morning on an empty stomach and not eating for at least 1 or 2

hours

> afterwards. I stay away from soy products and try to watch what I

> eat. I have gained 35 pounds in 3 months and ache all over. I

have

> absolutely no energy either. All I want to do is sleep and eat.

I

> feel like crap!!

>

> Peggy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/18/2004 7:03:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,

hummer6989@... writes:

> For some reason I

> have to take very high doses of thyroid meds to keep my TSH even

> partly in line. I

What were your Free levels? It could be you have severe pituitary

dysfunction perhaps...and the TSH just isn't an accurate reflection?

But it's the actual hormone levels that are important? Do you know those?

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/18/2004 8:59:05 AM Eastern Standard Time,

hummer6989@... writes:

> don't know what my Free levels were, but I could call my drs.

> office and ask. I hope he did those tests.

>

I would check on it...but don't be surprised if he didn't do them. so many

doctors just rely on the TSH test.

cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/18/2004 9:02:38 AM Eastern Standard Time,

hummer6989@... writes:

> What is commonly done to correct pituitary dysfunction?

>

>

That's a good question. I'm not sure there's a good answer to that except to

do a xray/scan? of the pituitary to make sure there are no cysts/tumors on

it. But if it's just not working right due to the hypo, the main thing would be

to just get your thyroid hormone levels (free t4and free T3) in order so that

your body can heal.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/18/2004 11:09:29 AM Eastern Standard Time,

hummer6989@... writes:

> that my FT4 was 0.53 (0.7 - 1.8) which is a bit low. I have no idea

> what low FT4 would mean

a bit low is an understatement. that's VERY low. T4 is the storage thyroid

hormone that converts into T3 which is the active thyroid hormone. For sure

if you don't have hardly any T4...your body has nothing to convert for use in

the body.

The Free part of the lab just means that this is free from other binding

agents in the blood ...the Free means available for use.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/18/2004 11:09:29 AM Eastern Standard Time,

hummer6989@... writes:

> He just raised

> me up to 4 gr. of Armour.

>

Yes. this is good. you want that Free T4 to be at least in mid range to a

bit higher in range for you to feel good. But you also need to make sure

you're converting your T4 to T3 - some people are poor converters...so it is

wise

to check the Free T3 too.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

Janie:

1. Yes, in answer to your question about my TSH being 11 and going

up to almost 21 in a little over 2 months on Armour.

2. I was previously taking a very high dose of Synthroid (.4mg)

daily. My TSH in July was at 6. My dr. started me on Armour at

60mg. daily, so I immediately went more hypo. My next TSH taken in

mid-August was at 11.

3. How is the test for antibodies and adrenals done? Is it by a

blood test? I may have had that done a couple of years ago, but not

recently. I was seeing an endo then and he said I have Hashimotos.

I've not had my ferritin tested that I know of either.

4. I am not on estrogen, but I am using 100mg of progesterone

ointment on my arm every night. Dr. said my estrogen was on the high

side but my progesterone was nonexistent.

5. My dr. just raised me to 4 Gr. of Armour, and yes, they do have

an A on them. I refused to take the generic ones my drug store tried

to give me. I will try your suggestion about taking my Armour

sublingually and splitting the dosage.

I don't have my labs in front front of me yet. I called my drs.

office yesterday, and his assistant told me over the phone that " Your

TSH is up a bit from last time. " I will get a copy when I see my dr.

in 2 weeks.

Thanks so much for your input. I remember talking to you about my

starting Armour back in August on this board. I appreciate any help

you can give me. I feel even worse than I did when I started

Armour. I have had hypo symptoms for many years. For some reason I

have to take very high doses of thyroid meds to keep my TSH even

partly in line. I now weigh 270 pounds and wonder if my weight can

affect the amount of meds I have to take. I have gained 35 pounds in

3 months, all in the stomach area. I need help. My dr. told me I

would feel much worse before I felt better because my body was do

depleted of hormones. I had no idea it would get this bad. I'm

ready to give up and go back to Synthroid.

Peggy

> Am I understanding that your TSH was 11 when you started Armour?

And

> now, two months later, at 3 grains, your TSH is up to nearly 21????

> That is really bizarre, but could also point to the flairing on

> antibodies...if so that will stabilize eventually on the amount of

> Armour you will be on.

>

> Janie

> >

> > I had previously been on Synthroid for over 15 years and still

had

> > many hypo symptoms. In early August, I saw another doctor and he

> > prescribed Armour Thyroid (60mg). Since then, I have worked up

to

> 3

> > grains (180mg). In August my TSH was 11 and I just had a new

test

> > and it is up to 20.9. I am so upset about this jump in my TSH.

I

> > called and spoke to my dr's assistant. I didn't think to ask her

> > what my FT3 or FT4 was. She did call in a prescription of 4

> grains

> > of Armour. I was also upset that it had been almost 2 weeks and

> my

> > dr. didn't call me to raise up my Armour. I had several other

> tests

> > done and will see my dr. on the 29th. Does anyone have any ideas

> why

> > my TSH would keep climbing? I am taking my Armour first thing in

> the

> > morning on an empty stomach and not eating for at least 1 or 2

> hours

> > afterwards. I stay away from soy products and try to watch what

I

> > eat. I have gained 35 pounds in 3 months and ache all over. I

> have

> > absolutely no energy either. All I want to do is sleep and eat.

> I

> > feel like crap!!

> >

> > Peggy

[Guest guest]

I don't know what my Free levels were, but I could call my drs.

office and ask. I hope he did those tests.

Peggy

> In a message dated 11/18/2004 7:03:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> hummer6989@h... writes:

>

> > For some reason I

> > have to take very high doses of thyroid meds to keep my TSH even

> > partly in line. I

>

> What were your Free levels? It could be you have severe pituitary

> dysfunction perhaps...and the TSH just isn't an accurate reflection?

> But it's the actual hormone levels that are important? Do you know

those?

> Cindi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Also, my dr. gave me ThyroCare from the 's Thyroid Syndrome

provider. What is commonly done to correct pituitary dysfunction?

Peggy

> In a message dated 11/18/2004 7:03:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> hummer6989@h... writes:

>

> > For some reason I

> > have to take very high doses of thyroid meds to keep my TSH even

> > partly in line. I

>

> What were your Free levels? It could be you have severe pituitary

> dysfunction perhaps...and the TSH just isn't an accurate reflection?

> But it's the actual hormone levels that are important? Do you know

those?

> Cindi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This sure sounds like thyroid hormone resistance or that you have

antibodies in the blood that are taking it out before it has time to

work. You may also have a problem with the pill binders and are not

taking it up. I've seen this sort of thing before on news groups.

Have you tried dissolving it under your tongue?

If you are having some type of auto-immune reaction that is removing

thryoid from the blood or if you are developing some type of

resistance, then you could consider a switch to all T3 replacement.

A 's thyroid syndrome doctor could do that for you. They

usually compound it so it is slow release and you only need 2 doses

a day. Typical all T3 replacement is about 90mcg up to 190mcg.

A last thing that could be happening is that you have low adrenal

function (adrenal fatigue) and this is causing the thyroid to build

up in the blood and not get into tissues. This situation would give

symptoms of both hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism. Usually, it

makes you feel real lousy. When adrenal cortisol is too low, thyroid

cannot work and builds up in the blood affecting the heart and

muscles. The rest of you is hypo and you will have fatigue and your

hair will be falling out, etc. If this is happening, then Free T3

and Free T4 tests will come back high. Usually, TSH will be low.

These tests can also be high if you have antibodies attacking

thyroid hormone and removing it before it has a chance to work.

Anyway, it kind of sounds like maybe you aren't taking it up for

some reason since TSH is high. I would try dissolving under my

tongue and see if things improve.

You can also order Nutri+meds thyroid and supplement your thyroid

dose with that. Nutri+meds thyroid contains about 1/4 grain of

thyroid per pill. But, I have read of people unable to take this up

due to the binders, so it would also need to be dissolved uner the

tongue or chewed to be safe.

Tish

[Guest guest]

isn't iodine in thyrocare

>

>Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones

>To: NaturalThyroidHormones

>Subject: Re: High TSH w/Armour

>Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:59:25 -0000

>

[Guest guest]

No, there is no Iodine in ThyroCare.

> isn't iodine in thyrocare

>

> >From: " Hummer6989 " <hummer6989@h...>

> >Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones

> >To: NaturalThyroidHormones

> >Subject: Re: High TSH w/Armour

> >Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:59:25 -0000

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Tish: Thanks so much for your well thought advice. I will talk to

my dr. more about this when I see him on the 29th.

Peggy

>

> This sure sounds like thyroid hormone resistance or that you have

> antibodies in the blood that are taking it out before it has time

to

> work. You may also have a problem with the pill binders and are not

> taking it up. I've seen this sort of thing before on news groups.

> Have you tried dissolving it under your tongue?

>

> If you are having some type of auto-immune reaction that is

removing

> thryoid from the blood or if you are developing some type of

> resistance, then you could consider a switch to all T3 replacement.

> A 's thyroid syndrome doctor could do that for you. They

> usually compound it so it is slow release and you only need 2 doses

> a day. Typical all T3 replacement is about 90mcg up to 190mcg.

>

> A last thing that could be happening is that you have low adrenal

> function (adrenal fatigue) and this is causing the thyroid to build

> up in the blood and not get into tissues. This situation would give

> symptoms of both hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism. Usually, it

> makes you feel real lousy. When adrenal cortisol is too low,

thyroid

> cannot work and builds up in the blood affecting the heart and

> muscles. The rest of you is hypo and you will have fatigue and your

> hair will be falling out, etc. If this is happening, then Free T3

> and Free T4 tests will come back high. Usually, TSH will be low.

>

> These tests can also be high if you have antibodies attacking

> thyroid hormone and removing it before it has a chance to work.

>

> Anyway, it kind of sounds like maybe you aren't taking it up for

> some reason since TSH is high. I would try dissolving under my

> tongue and see if things improve.

>

> You can also order Nutri+meds thyroid and supplement your thyroid

> dose with that. Nutri+meds thyroid contains about 1/4 grain of

> thyroid per pill. But, I have read of people unable to take this up

> due to the binders, so it would also need to be dissolved uner the

> tongue or chewed to be safe.

>

> Tish

[Guest guest]

Ingredients:

Guggul Gum Resin 263 mg

Blue Flag Root 174 mg

Bladderwrack Leaves 263 mg

Selenium / Silicone Dioxide . 35

Bladderwrack is iodine and that makes many of us sicker and not be able to

absorb the thyroid meds we are taking

Re: High TSH w/Armour

> >Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:59:25 -0000

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, you are right! I didn't know what that stuff was. My dr. gave

it to me to help me with my Armour.

Peggy

-- In NaturalThyroidHormones , " Jamy "

<jamyrogers@m...> wrote:

> Ingredients:

>

> Guggul Gum Resin 263 mg

> Blue Flag Root 174 mg

> Bladderwrack Leaves 263 mg

> Selenium / Silicone Dioxide . 35

>

>

> Bladderwrack is iodine and that makes many of us sicker and not be

able to absorb the thyroid meds we are taking

> Re: High TSH w/Armour

> > >Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:59:25 -0000

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

it seems every DR that is so called holistic gives it to us and I have only met

one person that wasn't worse on iodine. Go figure! LOL

Jamy

Website:http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/California_Thyroid_Groups/

Re: High TSH w/Armour

> > >Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:59:25 -0000

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I just called my dr. and was told that my FT3 hadn't been done but

that my FT4 was 0.53 (0.7 - 1.8) which is a bit low. I have no idea

what low FT4 would mean. Can you explain it to me. He just raised

me up to 4 gr. of Armour.

Peggy

[Guest guest]

Peggy, most of us who have hypoT, don't feel better until our TSH is

under 1., and our FreeT3 and FreeT4 are in the upper ranges. I myself

didn't learn that until I was being treated for hyperT/Graves disease

3 yrs ago. When I started weaning off the anti thyroid drugs for

hyperthyroidism, as soon as my tests varied from what i mentioned

above, hypo set in and didn't leave. Your FT4 is too low for me. The

fact that your dr doens't test FreeT3 means he 'assumes' there is no

problem with converting T4 into T3. (big mistake on his part). You

can even skip TSH when FT3 and FT4 are being done. They tell the best

picture of what is going on with your situation.

SandyE~Houston

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:03:02 -0000

" Hummer6989 " wrote:

>

> I just called my dr. and was told that my FT3 hadn't been done but

> that my FT4 was 0.53 (0.7 - 1.8) which is a bit low. I have no idea

> what low FT4 would mean. Can you explain it to me. He just raised

> me up to 4 gr. of Armour.

>

> Peggy

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Peggy,

It sounds like you're relying on your TSH test to feel better. I've

been told that once you have Hashimoto's antibodies, the TSH is not

a reliable test. You need to be looking at your Free T3 and Free T4

tests.

If your doctor does the total T's- that tells what the body is

producing, but it does not tell how much is being used on the

cellular level. Free T tests tells how much is 'free' to be used by

the cells to be carried all over the body.

I also just started in July-August. I've also had hypo symptoms for

many years.... 14 years undiagnosed. And I'm also worse today than

I was in September. One email from Tish explained that you can have

a good period at first, but turn worse. This is due to ?? telling

the thyroid... hey.. we have T4/T3 coming in. We don't need to work

to put out... let's just rest. I have limited understanding, but

it's explained well in her email about low dose of thyroid could

make matters worse. She explained how the adrenals plays a role in

this. You'll have to search the archives. Put Tish in search. It

was just last week.

Read her other emails. She explained well how other issues. It

sounds like you need adrenal support. Gaining weight around the

middle is cortisol imbalance.

Taking hydrocortisone (or other adrenal meds) will...

help with fatigue, depression (helps with seratonin uptake), builds

cells so T3 can be entered, and so much more.

I have more adrenal issues than thyroid. If you are unsure.. try

the adrenal/thyroid questionaire at:

http://www.drrind.com/scorecard.asp

Don't give up!!! Just go up on your Armour til you get hyper

symptoms. I'm up to 4 grains of Armour and upped my adrenal support

included some Ginseng and I've started with hyper/anxiety symptoms.

Today I'm cutting back to 3.5 grains. It just takes awhile to

adjust.

If you have Hashimoto's... you could also be developing other

autoimmune problems. If you have adrenal problems, it takes much

longer to get regulated. The longer you've had issues/symptoms, the

longer its going to take to resolve.

Don't give up on Armour. It's the answer for your recovery. Be

reminded how people have suffered for years on Synthroid because it

ONLY has T4. Armour has T4, T3, T2, T1, and some sort of calcium.

With hugs,

Crystal

I feel even worse than I did when I started

> Armour. I have had hypo symptoms for many years. For some reason

I > have to take very high doses of thyroid meds to keep my TSH even

> partly in line. I now weigh 270 pounds and wonder if my weight

can > affect the amount of meds I have to take. I have gained 35

pounds in > 3 months, all in the stomach area. I need help. My dr.

told me I > would feel much worse before I felt better because my

body was do > depleted of hormones. I had no idea it would get this

bad. I'm > ready to give up and go back to Synthroid.

>

> Peggy

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That's right about holistic drs giving iodine. I saw a holistic dr

earlier this year and she gave me (actually she took $50 for it!) a

supplement called Thyrosol, along with a bunch of other supplements.

(She actually wanted me to do more, but I said I wanted to concentrate

on just the thyroid at first.)

Well, after I got home and looked into things, the Thyrosol is mainly

bladderwrack (iodine), with a few vitamins. It says it supports

healthy thyroid synthesis. Now, I am hypo due to RAI for Graves so

basically, I have no thyroid function. So why in the world would I

need iodine to help my nonexistent thyroid make hormones?! I never

could figure out what I was missing here.

I'm no longer seeing this dr. because she said we needed to part ways

since I didn't want to do some emotional stuff to see where my

thyroid/adrenal problems were stemming from. (She said she couldn't

just treat one part of me.) I was ready to " part ways " anyway, but

it's just wierd when the dr. fires you! Just another example of lots

of money down the drain -- and from a holistic dr I really thought was

going to finally help me. So now I'm self-treating like many of you.

Debbie

> it seems every DR that is so called holistic gives it to us and I

have only met one person that wasn't worse on iodine. Go figure! LOL

> Jamy

>

[Guest guest]

when I was really badly treated by an endo that owned a weight loss clinic, see

any conflict there? Anyway back to the story; I went to the Broda list

and found a DR. Gosh, he sold me more su[pplements than you can shake a stick

at. Then when it came up I had very low aldosterone, he was lost and kept trying

to test me for allergies. I learned that I can research my own vitamins and

just because a DR is on a list means nothing more than they put there name on a

list to get patients and took a course.

Re: High TSH w/Armour

That's right about holistic drs giving iodine. I saw a holistic dr

earlier this year and she gave me (actually she took $50 for it!) a

supplement called Thyrosol, along with a bunch of other supplements.

(She actually wanted me to do more, but I said I wanted to concentrate

on just the thyroid at first.)

Well, after I got home and looked into things, the Thyrosol is mainly

bladderwrack (iodine), with a few vitamins. It says it supports

healthy thyroid synthesis. Now, I am hypo due to RAI for Graves so

basically, I have no thyroid function. So why in the world would I

need iodine to help my nonexistent thyroid make hormones?! I never

could figure out what I was missing here.

I'm no longer seeing this dr. because she said we needed to part ways

since I didn't want to do some emotional stuff to see where my

thyroid/adrenal problems were stemming from. (She said she couldn't

just treat one part of me.) I was ready to " part ways " anyway, but

it's just wierd when the dr. fires you! Just another example of lots

of money down the drain -- and from a holistic dr I really thought was

going to finally help me. So now I'm self-treating like many of you.

Debbie

> it seems every DR that is so called holistic gives it to us and I

have only met one person that wasn't worse on iodine. Go figure! LOL

> Jamy

>

[Guest guest]

Since my FT4 is quite low at 0.53 (0.7 - 1.8), I am wondering if it

would be okay to take some Synthroid for the T4. My dr. just upped

my dose of Armout from 3 Gr. to 4 Gr. now. I started taking Armour

in early August, but still have many hypo symptoms. That's why I

thought it might make a difference if I tried adding some T4. I

don't see my dr. until the 29th, and his assistant just suggested I

take the 4 Gr. of Armour. I do have .75MCG of Synthroid left over.

hat do you guys & gals think about adding T4? I feel like I have a

double dose of the flu with body aches, buddha belly, brain fog, slow

moving and thinking, and the list goes on.

Peggy

>

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

----------

>

[Guest guest]

Peggy, a full grain of armour is a little much in one whack, in my

opinion. have you had fertitin tested, and adrenals tested?

SandyE~HOuston

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:23:56 -0000

" Hummer6989 " wrote:

>

> Since my FT4 is quite low at 0.53 (0.7 - 1.8), I am wondering if it

> would be okay to take some Synthroid for the T4. My dr. just upped

> my dose of Armout from 3 Gr. to 4 Gr. now. I started taking Armour

> in early August, but still have many hypo symptoms. That's why I

> thought it might make a difference if I tried adding some T4. I

> don't see my dr. until the 29th, and his assistant just suggested I

> take the 4 Gr. of Armour. I do have .75MCG of Synthroid left over.

>

> hat do you guys & gals think about adding T4? I feel like I have a

> double dose of the flu with body aches, buddha belly, brain fog,

>slow

> moving and thinking, and the list goes on.

>

> Peggy

> >

> >

> >

> >

>--------------------------------------------------------------------

> ----------

> >

[Guest guest]

No, I haven't had my adrenals or ferritin checked yet. My TSH just

tested at 20.9, after 3 months on Armour (previously on .4mg

Synthroid for 15 yrs.). I will see my dr. on the 29th and will ask

him then. He already raised my Armour from 2 to 3 gr. last month,

and now from 3 to 4 gr.

Peggy

> >

> > Since my FT4 is quite low at 0.53 (0.7 - 1.8), I am wondering if

it

> > would be okay to take some Synthroid for the T4. My dr. just

upped

> > my dose of Armout from 3 Gr. to 4 Gr. now. I started taking

Armour

> > in early August, but still have many hypo symptoms. That's why I

> > thought it might make a difference if I tried adding some T4. I

> > don't see my dr. until the 29th, and his assistant just suggested

I

> > take the 4 Gr. of Armour. I do have .75MCG of Synthroid left

over.

> >

> > hat do you guys & gals think about adding T4? I feel like I have

a

> > double dose of the flu with body aches, buddha belly, brain fog,

> >slow

> > moving and thinking, and the list goes on.

> >

> > Peggy

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >-------------------------------------------------------------------

-

> > ----------

> > >