Guest guest Posted February 26, 2002 Report Share Posted February 26, 2002 In a message dated 2/26/02 5:57:34 PM Central Standard Time, ynos@... writes: > > Hi Belinda: > I have been present when the cows are being milked and I couldn't > recall their receiving anything while being milked, but I waited til > today when I picked up milk to check with the farmer. He said that he > didn't offer them anything and that he had no problems. So now for more questions. <G> What type of set up has he got? Is this a large dairy where the cows come in onto a concret platform and are locked into place with metal gates? Or is the a person pretty much sitting under a cow milking into a bucket? See I'm the 5'3 " person who would have to sit under the cow. I asked him > > if a cow wasn't well behaved would he shoot it, but he just laughed > and said that he wouldn't. He did say that he thought a consistant > routine was important. His cows are contented Canadiennes. > Fortunately this dual purpose breed developed in early French Canada > has been spared modern breeding for increased volume. I think this > breed could be important if the nutritional value of milk ever > becomes important. I do believe the nutritional value of milk is important now. Some Canadiennes have been crossed with Brown > > Swiss. The farmer figures this ruins them. How? Does he advocate only pure breeds? We have a collection of cross breeds in everything we raise and find they do much better than the few we have with " papers " . Belinda LaBelle Acres www.labelleacres.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2002 Report Share Posted February 26, 2002 In a message dated 2/26/02 7:21:02 PM Central Standard Time, ynos@... writes: > If I was going to milk a cow by hand, I would want to make sure the > cow and I were good friends, especially if I were 5'3 " . We are, they pat me on the head with their tail and I sing to them. > > > > Some Canadiennes have been crossed with Brown > > > Swiss. The farmer figures this ruins them. > > > How? Does he advocate only pure breeds? We have a collection > > of cross breeds in everything we raise and find they do > > much better than the few we have with " papers " . > > He doesn't have " papers " for his animals as he doesn't register them. > Since his interest is in producing nutrition, I would think that if > he found a particular cross to be better than his current breed, he > would use them without hesitation. He has been slow rebuilding his > herd because he won't even use Canadienne animals from outside his > own herd. All his animals, female and male, have horns. After death, > he uses the horns as he is a bio-dynamic farmer. Most cows do have horns. With only two cows and a bull he must have done a lot of inbreeding. I wonder just how good that was. > Again, I suggest that perhaps the primary reason the Canadienne is a > good cow for producing high nutritional milk (when it is on high soil > fertility), is that it has been spared 'modern' breeding programs. > Crosses may be crosses of two modern breeds that have been bred for > volume. > Why would the milk from this particular breed be any better than another on the same grazing? I understand that the cream amounts might be different but if, as you've pointed out before, the product is only as good as the soil, how could one breed be better. Goats are now being bred to produce more milk as well. I am breeding meat goats to make bigger goats an more meat. Is this also to be condemned? Or is it only cows that need to produce less milk? Belinda LaBelle Acres www.labelleacres.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2002 Report Share Posted February 26, 2002 > If you don't mind asking the farmer how he gets his animals > to come in and stand still to be milked I'd appreciate > knowing. I'm beginning to think we have some pig-headed dairy cows. > If the grain mix isn't up to their standards > they won't even come to the gate the next milking. Hi Belinda: I have been present when the cows are being milked and I couldn't recall their receiving anything while being milked, but I waited til today when I picked up milk to check with the farmer. He said that he didn't offer them anything and that he had no problems. I asked him if a cow wasn't well behaved would he shoot it, but he just laughed and said that he wouldn't. He did say that he thought a consistant routine was important. His cows are contented Canadiennes. Fortunately this dual purpose breed developed in early French Canada has been spared modern breeding for increased volume. I think this breed could be important if the nutritional value of milk ever becomes important. Some Canadiennes have been crossed with Brown Swiss. The farmer figures this ruins them. Chi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2002 Report Share Posted February 27, 2002 > > If you don't mind asking the farmer how he gets his animals > > to come in and stand still to be milked I'd appreciate > > knowing. I'm beginning to think we have some pig-headed dairy cows. > > If the grain mix isn't up to their standards > > they won't even come to the gate the next milking. > > Hi Belinda: > I have been present when the cows are being milked and I couldn't > recall their receiving anything while being milked, but I waited til > today when I picked up milk to check with the farmer. He said that he > didn't offer them anything and that he had no problems. I asked him > if a cow wasn't well behaved would he shoot it, but he just laughed > and said that he wouldn't. He did say that he thought a consistant > routine was important. His cows are contented Canadiennes. > Fortunately this dual purpose breed developed in early French Canada > has been spared modern breeding for increased volume. I think this > breed could be important if the nutritional value of milk ever > becomes important. Some Canadiennes have been crossed with Brown > Swiss. The farmer figures this ruins them. > Chi ...................Do you suppose the farmer knows much about crossbreeding? Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2002 Report Share Posted February 27, 2002 > > What type of set up has he got? Is this a large dairy where > the cows come in onto a concrete platform and are locked > into place with metal gates? Hi Belinda: The farmer has about 25 milking cows at the present time. His herd is rebuilding from early 90's legal battles with the government over raw milk. His legal costs forced him to sell about 2/3's of the farm and all but 3 cows and one bull in the herd. I told him recently I thought his lawyer mishandled the case. His herd maximum size was about 50 producing cows. The milking area is concrete with gates behind the animals. Four at a time are milked by machine. When I watched them being milked, I didn't see any form of protest from any of the cows being milked. If I was going to milk a cow by hand, I would want to make sure the cow and I were good friends, especially if I were 5'3 " . > > Some Canadiennes have been crossed with Brown > > Swiss. The farmer figures this ruins them. > How? Does he advocate only pure breeds? We have a collection > of cross breeds in everything we raise and find they do > much better than the few we have with " papers " . He doesn't have " papers " for his animals as he doesn't register them. Since his interest is in producing nutrition, I would think that if he found a particular cross to be better than his current breed, he would use them without hesitation. He has been slow rebuilding his herd because he won't even use Canadienne animals from outside his own herd. All his animals, female and male, have horns. After death, he uses the horns as he is a bio-dynamic farmer. Again, I suggest that perhaps the primary reason the Canadienne is a good cow for producing high nutritional milk (when it is on high soil fertility), is that it has been spared 'modern' breeding programs. Crosses may be crosses of two modern breeds that have been bred for volume. Chi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2002 Report Share Posted February 27, 2002 > > > > What type of set up has he got? Is this a large dairy where > > the cows come in onto a concrete platform and are locked > > into place with metal gates? > > Hi Belinda: > The farmer has about 25 milking cows at the present time. His herd is > rebuilding from early 90's legal battles with the government over raw > milk. His legal costs forced him to sell about 2/3's of the farm and > all but 3 cows and one bull in the herd. I told him recently I > thought his lawyer mishandled the case. His herd maximum size was > about 50 producing cows. The milking area is concrete with gates > behind the animals. Four at a time are milked by machine. When I > watched them being milked, I didn't see any form of protest from any > of the cows being milked. > If I was going to milk a cow by hand, I would want to make sure the > cow and I were good friends, especially if I were 5'3 " . > > > > Some Canadiennes have been crossed with Brown > > > Swiss. The farmer figures this ruins them. > > > How? Does he advocate only pure breeds? We have a collection > > of cross breeds in everything we raise and find they do > > much better than the few we have with " papers " . > > He doesn't have " papers " for his animals as he doesn't register them. > Since his interest is in producing nutrition, I would think that if > he found a particular cross to be better than his current breed, he > would use them without hesitation. He has been slow rebuilding his > herd because he won't even use Canadienne animals from outside his > own herd. All his animals, female and male, have horns. After death, > he uses the horns as he is a bio-dynamic farmer. > Again, I suggest that perhaps the primary reason the Canadienne is a > good cow for producing high nutritional milk (when it is on high soil > fertility), is that it has been spared 'modern' breeding programs. > Crosses may be crosses of two modern breeds that have been bred for > volume. > Chi ...............ME(Dennis).....Do you suppose the farmer uses lab analyses to determine nutritional quality of the milk? Wouldn't it be valid to do so? You spoke of soil testing in previous posts, my opinion is that lab analyses would be necessary regarding nutritional quality of raw milk before the milk could be called high nutritional milk. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2002 Report Share Posted February 27, 2002 --- In @y..., " dkemnitz2000 " <dkemnitz2000@y...> wrote: > ME(Dennis).....Do you suppose the farmer uses lab analyses > to determine nutritional quality of the milk? Wouldn't it be > valid to do so? You spoke of soil testing in previous posts, my > opinion is that lab analyses would be necessary regarding > nutritional quality of raw milk before the milk could be > called high nutritional > milk. Hi Dennis: Are you familiar with Weston Price's studies on the variable nutritional value of milk? Based on his studies, Price suggests how one might nourish cows to produce milk of maximun nutritional quality. He also shows that milk from the same herd varies during the year, with one indicator of this nutritional value being the color of the butter with respect to how yellow it is. As far as I know the farmer hasn't used lab analyses to determine the nutritional value of his milk. I don't think it would be valid to use lab analyses to determine the nutritional value of milk. What would be valuable would be to conduct animal or human feeding tests to measure the actual nutritional value of the milk. I am sure the dairy industry would decline to do this type of test to compare my farmer's milk with milk in the grocery stores. I am sure he would welcome the comparison. A soil test does not tell you if you have high soil fertility. Again, only a feeding test based on food grown in that soil will do that. The soil test is only a guide as to what you might want to do to your soil if you were trying to improve your soil fertility. From doing a soil test on a good soil, we know roughly what a good soil looks like with respect to it's mineral availability. We are less successful at creating one, however. Nutritional analysis by labs will never be as reliable as feeding tests. In fact, nutritional analysis by ash analysis is often misleading with respect to actual nutritional quality. Chi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2002 Report Share Posted February 27, 2002 > > ME(Dennis).....Do you suppose the farmer uses lab analyses > > to determine nutritional quality of the milk? Wouldn't it be > > valid to do so? You spoke of soil testing in previous posts, my > > opinion is that lab analyses would be necessary regarding > > nutritional quality of raw milk before the milk could be > > called high nutritional > > milk. > > Hi Dennis: > Are you familiar with Weston Price's studies on the variable > nutritional value of milk? Based on his studies, Price suggests how > one might nourish cows to produce milk of maximun nutritional > quality. He also shows that milk from the same herd varies during the > year, with one indicator of this nutritional value being the color of > the butter with respect to how yellow it is. > As far as I know the farmer hasn't used lab analyses to determine the > nutritional value of his milk. I don't think it would be valid to use > lab analyses to determine the nutritional value of milk. What would > be valuable would be to conduct animal or human feeding tests to > measure the actual nutritional value of the milk. I am sure the dairy > industry would decline to do this type of test to compare my farmer's > milk with milk in the grocery stores. I am sure he would welcome the > comparison. > A soil test does not tell you if you have high soil fertility. Again, > only a feeding test based on food grown in that soil will do that. > The soil test is only a guide as to what you might want to do to your > soil if you were trying to improve your soil fertility. From doing a > soil test on a good soil, we know roughly what a good soil looks like > with respect to it's mineral availability. We are less successful at > creating one, however. > Nutritional analysis by labs will never be as reliable as feeding > tests. In fact, nutritional analysis by ash analysis is often > misleading with respect to actual nutritional quality. > Chi Hi Chi: Do you know where the feeding tests can be obtained? Wouldn't it be good to do proximate analyses before the feeding tests? The feeding tests are probably expensive. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.