Re: grass-fed dairy-what cows think about it

[Guest guest]

> Not that we shouldn't strive for better, but most forages

> are actually hybrids too...

> Not many farmers (other than hobbyists and ultra-niche

> marketers) are letting their pastures go to wild seeded

> grasses. Even grass-based farmers order drought resistant,

> disease resistant, insect resistant, heat tolerant, rapid

> growth " improved " versions of the various forages whenever they can.

Hi :

That's why grass fed, raw milk is not enough. Perhaps drought

resistant, disease resistant, insect resistant, heat tolerant, rapid

growth " improved " forages are best called simply malnutrition through

abundance.

Here's what Albrecht reports on how cattle choose what they eat,

providing they are given a choice:

" weeds, as the cows classify them " from Volume I of " The Albrecht

Papers " :

" Weeds are commonly defined as an undesirable and worthless crop. But

when we think a bit deeper than the crops, and when we study the

soils under them, we must use another definition. When weeds are left

to grow bigger in the pasture, that is, grow bigger because they are

disregarded by the cattle, then me must define weeds as a crop so

poor in nutritional values, because of the poor soil under it, that a

cow has sense enough not to eat it. Have you ever thought that weeds

left in the pasture are pointing to the need to treat the soil with

fertility additions if it to keep good feed crops growing? The cow

has never learned the names of plant species nor memorized

the 'manual of weeds,' but she knows the nutritional quality of the

vegetation according to the soil fertility of the soil growing it.

She demonstarates that very accurately whenever she has a chance to

choose.

More than a hundred head of beef cattle gave such a demonstration on

the Poirot Farms, near Golden City, Missouri. What these cows

called 'weeds,' namely a worthless crop as they judged it, was in

decided contradiction to our customary classification of certain

plant species as weeds. They refused and disregarded bluegrass, white

clover, and even some soybeans in virgin prairie that had never had

any soil treatment. For them, the bluegrass and white clover were

weeds, namely, plants that they had sense enough not to eat, because

the herd marched right across this large field and through the gate

on the opposite side to eat what had grown up in the previous year's

cornfield left unused because of a labor shortage.

On that abandonned field of choice forages as demonstrated by these

cattle, there were only plants species which the bulletins and books

call 'weeds'. There were cockleburrs, nettles, plantain, cheat, wild

carrots, butterprint, wild lettuce, berry vines, and a host of

others. Strange as it seems, all were eaten by the cattle and kept

down to a short growth during the season while the adjoining virgin

grass area, which they traversed daily for water, grew taller and

taller.

'That temporarily abandonned but well fertilized corn field in

weeds,' you would be compelled to say, 'was good pasture in the cows'

choice despite plant species that we call worthless, but the cows

select because of the higher fertility of the soil growing them.' For

the cows, the adjoining heavy sward of bluegrass and white clover was

a worthless crop and thereby they classified it as weeds according to

this demonstration of the herd that was expected to eat them. The

cows defined a weed, then, as any plant, regardless of species or

pedigree, growing where the fertility of the soil is too low, or too

unbalanced, to let the plant create what is nourishment for the

beast. "

Chi

[Guest guest]

Great post Chi!

Bianca

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:58:26 -0000 " soilfertility "

<ynos@...> writes:

Hi :

That's why grass fed, raw milk is not enough. Perhaps drought

resistant, disease resistant, insect resistant, heat tolerant, rapid

growth " improved " forages are best called simply malnutrition through

abundance.

Here's what Albrecht reports on how cattle choose what they eat,

providing they are given a choice:

" weeds, as the cows classify them " from Volume I of " The Albrecht

Papers " :

" Weeds are commonly defined as an undesirable and worthless crop. But

when we think a bit deeper than the crops, and when we study the

soils under them, we must use another definition. When weeds are left

to grow bigger in the pasture, that is, grow bigger because they are

disregarded by the cattle, then me must define weeds as a crop so

poor in nutritional values, because of the poor soil under it, that a

cow has sense enough not to eat it.

<snip>

The cow

has never learned the names of plant species nor memorized

the 'manual of weeds,' but she knows the nutritional quality of the

vegetation according to the soil fertility of the soil growing it.

She demonstarates that very accurately whenever she has a chance to

choose.

<snip>

They refused and disregarded bluegrass, white

clover, and even some soybeans in virgin prairie that had never had

any soil treatment. For them, the bluegrass and white clover were

weeds, namely, plants that they had sense enough not to eat, because

the herd marched right across this large field and through the gate

on the opposite side to eat what had grown up in the previous year's

cornfield left unused because of a labor shortage.

On that abandonned field of choice forages as demonstrated by these

cattle, there were only plants species which the bulletins and books

call 'weeds'. There were cockleburrs, nettles, plantain, cheat, wild

carrots, butterprint, wild lettuce, berry vines, and a host of

others. Strange as it seems, all were eaten by the cattle and kept

down to a short growth during the season while the adjoining virgin

grass area, which they traversed daily for water, grew taller and

taller.

'That temporarily abandonned but well fertilized corn field in

weeds,' you would be compelled to say, 'was good pasture in the cows'

choice despite plant species that we call worthless, but the cows

select because of the higher fertility of the soil growing them.' For

the cows, the adjoining heavy sward of bluegrass and white clover was

a worthless crop and thereby they classified it as weeds according to

this demonstration of the herd that was expected to eat them. The

cows defined a weed, then, as any plant, regardless of species or

pedigree, growing where the fertility of the soil is too low, or too

unbalanced, to let the plant create what is nourishment for the

beast. "

Chi

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:58:26 -0000 " soilfertility "

<ynos@...> writes:

On that abandonned field of choice forages as demonstrated by these

cattle, there were only plants species which the bulletins and books

call 'weeds'. There were cockleburrs, nettles, plantain, cheat, wild

carrots, butterprint, wild lettuce, berry vines, and a host of

others. Strange as it seems, all were eaten by the cattle and kept

down to a short growth during the season while the adjoining virgin

grass area, which they traversed daily for water, grew taller and

taller.

Chi

Well these might be weeds to most folks, but to any herbalist who knows a

litle bit about wildcrafting, or someone who likes to forage for a salad,

these are very valuable plants indeed.

LOL :-)

Bianca

[Guest guest]

> > Not that we shouldn't strive for better, but most forages

> > are actually hybrids too...

> > Not many farmers (other than hobbyists and ultra-niche

> > marketers) are letting their pastures go to wild seeded

> > grasses. Even grass-based farmers order drought resistant,

> > disease resistant, insect resistant, heat tolerant, rapid

> > growth " improved " versions of the various forages whenever they

can.

>

> Hi :

> ....................

> More than a hundred head of beef cattle gave such a demonstration on

> the Poirot Farms, near Golden City, Missouri.

> ....................

>Chi

>>>>>>>>Hello Chi: Do we assume the dairy cow will graze like the beef

cow did in Missouri? Also I have one cow grazing on probably 25 Acres

eating wheat and " weeds " . On the native bluesteam pastures in KS it

is normal to pasture one cow and calf ,during pasture season, on 5-6

acres. IF the cow is going to graze 2 or 3 times more acreage to get

proper nutrition on wild grasses the price of milk is going to have to

increase due to nutrient density in the milk and due to the number of

acres of land required to feed the cow the way you want it fed. I

don't see how this weed eating can work financially. By the way my

cow loves the weeds, it seems to me. And now you folks are thinking it

fascinating casein is different in one breed dairy cow than another

while the person proposing the theory is in business selling the

" proposed heart healthy casein " . Interesting. Dennis Kemnitz

Authentic Farmer,BS Food Science, 1977

[Guest guest]

--- In @y..., " dkemnitz2000 " <dkemnitz2000@y...> > >

> > More than a hundred head of beef cattle gave such a

> > demonstration on the Poirot Farms, near Golden City, Missouri.

> >>>>>>>>Hello Chi: Do we assume the dairy cow will graze

> like the beef cow did in Missouri?

Hi Dennis:

Yes. One would expect the dairy cow to discriminate in its grazing

pattern the same way as the beef cow did in Albrecht's Example. In

choosing which field to graze in, the determining factor would be the

soil fertility, not the species of plant growing in the pastures. Of

course, to replicate this test you would need fields of varying soil

fertility.

> Also I have one cow grazing on probably 25 Acres eating

> wheat and " weeds " . On the native bluesteam pastures

> in KS it is normal to pasture one cow and calf ,during

> pasture season, on 5-6 acres. IF the cow is going to graze

> 2 or 3 times more acreage to get proper nutrition on wild grasses

> the price of milk is going to have to increase due to nutrient

> density in the milk and due to the number of acres of land

> required to feed the cow the way you want it fed. I don't see

> how this weed eating can work financially.

The acreage required per cow is determined by the soil fertility.

Increasing soil fertility will allow the same number of animals to be

raised on less land, regardless of what is growing there.

Raising dairy cows for high nutrition milk requires different

thinking by both the farmer and the consumer. The biggest financial

problem for the farmer would be decreased volume per lactation.

Consumers have to decide whether they want their farmer or their

doctor to be better paid. The way I spend my money I think I am

better off paying my dairy farmer more than I pay my doctor for

services rendered. Of course, what my dairy farmer sells me should

negate my need for a doctor or dentist. For consumers who consider

cheap food to be more important to them than nutritious food, I just

tell them to enjoy their chemotherapy.

Chi

[Guest guest]

I personally believe there is evidence that cows and other ruminants chose

where to eat for other reasons than soil fertility. I was able to attend a

sustainable agricultural seminar near me several years ago. It was hosted by

a grass dairy farmer. We had an extensive tour of his farm. He is working

in collaboration with the Clemson University extension service. He used

improved/hybrid varieties of forage. He had numerous paddocks with all sorts

of forage. They kept very meticulous records in regard to forage type,

nutritive content, production, palatability, fertilizer, etc., etc. The

phenomenon describing cattle preferring short forage may have nothing to do

with soil fertility. They found that moving the cattle at the proper time of

forage growth was very important. They experimented with what growth level

the cows preferred and were amazed when cows would quite often walk over

lush forage to get to short stuff. The reason being, is they like the more

tender growth.

My boss has a flock of forty or so sheep and experiences the same same

thing. While he doesn't do intensive grazing in small paddocks, his sheep

will continually graze the same area when they have the option of eating

lush stuff nearby.

I have Angora goats that do the same thing. In fact if conditions are

right, they can't keep the whole pasture evenly grazed and some areas get

ahead of them. The longer the grass gets, the more they neglect it in

preference to the shortest grass/weeds. We go in and mow it to promote more

tender, newer growth. Then they are back grazing in areas they were

previously neglecting.

Bottom line is I think cows by nature eat what tastes good to them just

like people do. For the most part people eat junk food with no regard to

nutrition because they like it. Some people learn to like certain things

they normally wouldn't because they have learned it's good for them.

Likewise they will stop eating certain things because they learn they are

unhealthy. While in many examples real food tastes better than fake food, to

the uneducated mind a range fed chicken doesn't taste any better than the

hormone laden, grain fed ones in the grocery store. I choose the range fed

chicken because I know it's better for me. With all due love and respect for

cows, I personally can't imagine that they are able to make decisions on

food choices bases on nutritive value any better than people can.

Carmen

<<<<< When weeds are left

to grow bigger in the pasture, that is, grow bigger because they are

disregarded by the cattle, then me must define weeds as a crop so

poor in nutritional values, because of the poor soil under it, that a

cow has sense enough not to eat it. >>>>>>

<<<< Strange as it seems, all were eaten by the cattle and kept

down to a short growth during the season while the adjoining virgin

grass area, which they traversed daily for water, grew taller and

taller. >>>>>

'That temporarily abandonned but well fertilized corn field in

weeds,' you would be compelled to say, 'was good pasture in the cows'

choice despite plant species that we call worthless, but the cows Chi >>>

[Guest guest]

> With all due love and respect for cows, I personally can't

> imagine that they are able to make decisions on food choices

> bases on nutritive value any better than people can.

Hi Carmen:

After reading the scientific evidence presented in " The Albrecht

Papers " by Albrecht, I now assert that when it comes to

nutrition, there is only one dumb species. Albrecht provides example

after example how animal species select their food according to

nutritional value. In Volume II titled, " Soil Fertility and Animal

Health " , Chapter 8 is called, " Cows are Capable Chemists " .

If the Masai tribe had not let their cattle lead the way, but instead

had penned them in pastures where improved hybrid varieties were

growing, they would have never been included in Price's book. As an

illustration of the mentality of hybrid creation, yield at any cost,

please see Chapter 17, " New strains of white clover which cause bloat

and affect the thyroid gland " , of " Soil Grass and Cancer " by Voisin.

Try and keep from rolling on the floor laughing (rofl).

Chi