Re: can low cortisol really result in high estrogen?

[Guest guest]

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-125834328.html

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

I can provide my own experience - my estrogen was that high too and

dropped down to within normal range (whatever that means) w/in a month

of being on Isocort. I'm getting new labs done next week.

>

> is there any direct evidence of this? my estrodial was 5 times

> above the normal range,,,so Im hoping its true as I dont want to have

> to treat for that along with my af/thyroid issues. if anyone could

> cite any evidence I'd appreciate it

>

[Guest guest]

Val -- I have seen this as well as other links before -- however I

have had 'weak' adrenals with low-range estrogen levels as well as low

progesterone and low testosterone.

Is there some research or link that you have that can explain this?

>

> http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-125834328.html

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

>>Val -- I have seen this as well as other links before -- however I

have had 'weak' adrenals with low-range estrogen levels as well as low

progesterone and low testosterone.<<

Have you had any pituitary testing done? LH adn FSH would be the most important.

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Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

Waiting on results at the moment. And, because they are not ready -

could you expand on your thoughts?

>

> >>Val -- I have seen this as well as other links before -- however I

> have had 'weak' adrenals with low-range estrogen levels as well as low

> progesterone and low testosterone.<<

>

> Have you had any pituitary testing done? LH adn FSH would be the

most important.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

wow,,,that is great news. gives me hope. thanks for sharing

> >

> > is there any direct evidence of this? my estrodial was 5 times

> > above the normal range,,,so Im hoping its true as I dont want to have

> > to treat for that along with my af/thyroid issues. if anyone could

> > cite any evidence I'd appreciate it

> >

>

[Guest guest]

When estrogen is low AND low cortisol the cause of both isusually

pituitary not stimulating their production. Plechner explains why when

cortiosl is low it causes the estrogen to rise much better than I can

but i have read two of his bookls and find it very plausible and I do

believe it. BUT if thr pituitary is not calling for any sex hormones

then you not only have low cortilsl but hypogoinadism which is low LH

and FSH which the pituitary makes. When cortioslk is low simply from

weak or non functioning adreanls, ACTH is high and stimulates the

production of LH and FSh and thus estrogen soars. This happens in

NEUTERED animals as well as not, so it stands to reasonm even women with

porior hysterectomies can have high estrogen from the adrenals when

cortisll is low.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

Wow, I'm understanding (sort of) this stuff today. Another question - Is this

the same with DHEA? IOW, when cortisol is low, DHEA is high?

In September, my DHEA was 623 (60-370). I'm hoping this is true and I also hope

that now that I'm on Cortef, my DHEA will come down.

----- Original Message -----

From:

Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 6:08 AM

When estrogen is low AND low cortisol the cause of both isusually

pituitary not stimulating their production. Plechner explains why when

cortiosl is low it causes the estrogen to rise much better than I can

but i have read two of his bookls and find it very plausible and I do

believe it. BUT if thr pituitary is not calling for any sex hormones

then you not only have low cortilsl but hypogoinadism which is low LH

and FSH which the pituitary makes. When cortioslk is low simply from

weak or non functioning adreanls, ACTH is high and stimulates the

production of LH and FSh and thus estrogen soars. This happens in

NEUTERED animals as well as not, so it stands to reasonm even women with

porior hysterectomies can have high estrogen from the adrenals when cortisll is

low.

[Guest guest]

Does this theory apply to menopausal women?

Naffy

>

> When estrogen is low AND low cortisol the cause of both isusually

> pituitary not stimulating their production. Plechner explains why

when

> cortiosl is low it causes the estrogen to rise much better than I

can

> but i have read two of his bookls and find it very plausible and I

do

> believe it. BUT if thr pituitary is not calling for any sex

hormones

> then you not only have low cortilsl but hypogoinadism which is low

LH

> and FSH which the pituitary makes. When cortioslk is low simply

from

> weak or non functioning adreanls, ACTH is high and stimulates the

> production of LH and FSh and thus estrogen soars. This happens in

> NEUTERED animals as well as not, so it stands to reasonm even

women with

> porior hysterectomies can have high estrogen from the adrenals

when

> cortisll is low.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

>>Wow, I'm understanding (sort of) this stuff today. Another question - Is this

the same with DHEA? IOW, when cortisol is low, DHEA is high?

In September, my DHEA was 623 (60-370). I'm hoping this is true and I also hope

that now that I'm on Cortef, my DHEA will come down. <<

DHEA rises higher than normla as the adrenals become too fatigued to keep up

cortiosl prodyction, It should lower as well when cortisll levels are raised.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

>>Does this theory apply to menopausal women?<<

Yes. But may not be as obvious as in a premenopause.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

I think you explain it exceptionally well, Val. Thanks.

I, myself, am waiting on test results - but I do know that my estrogen

-- although out of balance with the rest of my sex hormones, is still

at the low end of the normal range...yet I do need Cortef.

Hopefully new tests will help determine next steps. But I wonder why

all of a sudden (three years ago) my pituitary (if that is what is

failing) decided to stop working......or took a nose dive the way it did.

>

> When estrogen is low AND low cortisol the cause of both isusually

> pituitary not stimulating their production. Plechner explains why when

> cortiosl is low it causes the estrogen to rise much better than I can

> but i have read two of his bookls and find it very plausible and I do

> believe it. BUT if thr pituitary is not calling for any sex hormones

> then you not only have low cortilsl but hypogoinadism which is low LH

> and FSH which the pituitary makes. When cortioslk is low simply from

> weak or non functioning adreanls, ACTH is high and stimulates the

> production of LH and FSh and thus estrogen soars. This happens in

> NEUTERED animals as well as not, so it stands to reasonm even women

with

> porior hysterectomies can have high estrogen from the adrenals when

> cortisll is low.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

Oh - I should note too, that once on Cortef, my breasts began KILLING

ME for months on end and even 'grew' a bit.....so that really has

confused me as well.

> >

> > When estrogen is low AND low cortisol the cause of both isusually

> > pituitary not stimulating their production. Plechner explains why

when

> > cortiosl is low it causes the estrogen to rise much better than I can

> > but i have read two of his bookls and find it very plausible and I do

> > believe it. BUT if thr pituitary is not calling for any sex hormones

> > then you not only have low cortilsl but hypogoinadism which is low LH

> > and FSH which the pituitary makes. When cortioslk is low simply from

> > weak or non functioning adreanls, ACTH is high and stimulates the

> > production of LH and FSh and thus estrogen soars. This happens in

> > NEUTERED animals as well as not, so it stands to reasonm even women

> with

> > porior hysterectomies can have high estrogen from the adrenals when

> > cortisll is low.

> >

> > --

> > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

> >

> > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> >

>

[Guest guest]

No problem. I'll post labs when I get them so that you can see what I

look like 2 months after starting cortisol supplementation. Val has

already provided that link for you to review, if you're planning on

beginning Iso or HC anyway, I would definitely give it chance and test

again in 30 days before starting on DIM.

[Guest guest]

I am not sure but there seem to be many causes of pituitary failure

notthe lest of which is just plain hypo. In some people it is not so

much failure as a down regulation of it, which could be possible in your

case. Also ANY kind of whiplash or head injury or losing too much blood

can also damage it form what I have read.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

>>Oh - I should note too, that once on Cortef, my breasts began KILLING

ME for months on end and even 'grew' a bit.....so that really has

confused me as well.<<

Could have ben high progesterone which also causes breast pain and swelling for

me.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

So, if the pituitary is not stimulating the production of cortisol and estrogen,

what is the remedy?

wrote:

When estrogen is low AND low cortisol the cause of both isusually

pituitary not stimulating their production. Plechner explains why when

cortiosl is low it causes the estrogen to rise much better than I can

but i have read two of his bookls and find it very plausible and I do

believe it. BUT if thr pituitary is not calling for any sex hormones

then you not only have low cortilsl but hypogoinadism which is low LH

and FSH which the pituitary makes. When cortioslk is low simply from

weak or non functioning adreanls, ACTH is high and stimulates the

production of LH and FSh and thus estrogen soars. This happens in

NEUTERED animals as well as not, so it stands to reasonm even women with

porior hysterectomies can have high estrogen from the adrenals when

cortisll is low.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

---------------------------------

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Replacing the hormoens that are low! Whie you must have the cortiosl

pretty well adjusted ot be bale to utilize the other hormones, then you

can start testing sex hormoens and adjusting them as well. I just

started estrogen as I feel liek my thyroid and cortiosl are as good as I

can get them. So far it is feelign pretty good!

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

>>Oh - I should note too, that once on Cortef, my breasts began KILLING

ME for months on end and even 'grew' a bit.....so that really has

confused me as well.<<

from " " :

>>Could have been high progesterone which also causes breast pain and

swelling for me.<<

Val,

are you saying there is a relation between cortef and high progesterone?

Dahlia

[Guest guest]

>>are you saying there is a relation between cortef and high progesterone?<<

As pregnenolone is a precursor for both progesterone and cortisol I would think

that low cortisol could also cause high progesterone just because there is a

divertence in the proper pathways. In other owrds when ther is too much

pregnenolone due to not using it to make cortisl it could go into making too

much Prpogesterone. And when you take cortisol it lowers estrogen thus creating

even more imbalance between Progesterone & estrogen.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

>

> No problem. I'll post labs when I get them so that you can see what I

> look like 2 months after starting cortisol supplementation. Val has

> already provided that link for you to review, if you're planning on

> beginning Iso or HC anyway, I would definitely give it chance and test

> again in 30 days before starting on DIM.

>

>

>

jason,,,,,I remember you stating you started with isocort before

you switched to hc. I just started the isocort last week and am up to

only 3 pellets per day. I dont feel any difference yet which I guess

is to be expected. did you feel any better at all on the isocort and

if so do you remember how many pellets it took?

[Guest guest]

>

> No problem. I'll post labs when I get them so that you can see what I

> look like 2 months after starting cortisol supplementation. Val has

> already provided that link for you to review, if you're planning on

> beginning Iso or HC anyway, I would definitely give it chance and test

> again in 30 days before starting on DIM.

>

>

>

jason,,,,,I remember you stating you started with isocort before

you switched to hc. I just started the isocort last week and am up to

only 3 pellets per day. I dont feel any difference yet which I guess

is to be expected. did you feel any better at all on the isocort and

if so do you remember how many pellets it took?

[Guest guest]

I never felt much better on the Isocort, all the way up to 8 pellets

and a couple more, and I could not increase Armour much while on it,

at least not without suffering the consequences in adrenal symptoms.

I know that the cortisol in the Iso was doing something because I was

hungry all of the time, sleep disturbances due to low cortisol and

hypoglcyemia in the middle of the night, GI upset, etc. I am doing

somewhat better now and I have been able to increase my Armour from

what it was then, 1/2 grain, to 1 3/4 grain as of last weekend.

However, I am up to 40mg of HC now. I just had labs done today so I

should be able to share some results with you by next week. I don't

remember if you posted labs here or what Val and others might have

said about them, but if you're borderline between needing Iso and

needing something stronger like HC, my advice would be to get it over

with and make the switch. I held out too long and suffered for no

reason for a month. I'm still not good, but at least I started making

some progress once I got up to a higher dose of HC. Also, we're men

and they say that we need more cortisol than women do so that's

another reason that Iso might not work well enough for you.

Just my .02. Val knows better than me and you should follow her guidance.

>

> jason,,,,,I remember you stating you started with isocort before

> you switched to hc. I just started the isocort last week and am up to

> only 3 pellets per day. I dont feel any difference yet which I guess

> is to be expected. did you feel any better at all on the isocort and

> if so do you remember how many pellets it took?

>

[Guest guest]

yea,,,isocort will probably be too weak for me as well. according to

diagnos labs,,,,they had me in stage 5. my hc should be here in a week

or so. thanks for getting back to me. glad youre doing at least a bit

better now and hopefully much better soon

> >

> > jason,,,,,I remember you stating you started with isocort before

> > you switched to hc. I just started the isocort last week and am up to

> > only 3 pellets per day. I dont feel any difference yet which I guess

> > is to be expected. did you feel any better at all on the isocort and

> > if so do you remember how many pellets it took?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm stage 5 also with Diagnos - 10,5,2,2 and I forget my cortisol

burden and DHEA off the top of my head. Again, let Val tell you b/c I

don't know enough to give anyone good advice yet, but it sounds like

you're on the right track switching to HC.

>

> yea,,,isocort will probably be too weak for me as well. according to

> diagnos labs,,,,they had me in stage 5. my hc should be here in a week

> or so. thanks for getting back to me. glad youre doing at least a bit

> better now and hopefully much better soon