Re: Thought experiment: WAP veganism

[Guest guest]

I answer this at the risk of encouraging an obviously self-destructive line

of thought. ;-)

If you look up some of the older vegetarian cookbooks (1965-1985) there are

often many non-soy vegan recipes. The make much greater use of nut and seed

butters, sprouts, lentils and other legumes. There is also a greater focus

on using traditional recipes since many of the items were taken directly

from another culture. This would be true of the african peanut soups,

hummus, lentil stews, tahini sauces, etc. You'll notice that many of the

preparations actually incorporate far more NT principles than any modern

veggie cookbook does. I'm somewhat of a cookbook collector (admittedly

small-scale compared to many), and I have a few older veggie cookbooks that

fall into this category. Some older food co-ops used to publish cookbooks

of member-contributed recipes too. Even as recently as the early 90s many

people were submitting favorite recipes that they'd been using for years

that were also not as soy dependent as the recent ones. A review of the

devolution of vegetarian literature, in my opinion, really reveals the

degree to which the soy industry took over the vegetarian movement. It made

it a viable mainstream trend by making it convenient (and profitable to

promote), while making it less viable from a health standpoint. Even if you

discount the negative health aspects of soy, the loss of variety, loss of

traditional preparations, increased level of processed convenience items,

etc make being a modern vegetarian a much more dangerous affair than 20-30

years ago.

That being said: don't do it! X~> (yet another wicked evil grin)

[Guest guest]

> Obviously that would be impossible, since WAP found that all

> primitive societies included animal products in their diet.

By the way, I don't think that's true. I thought I remembered mention of

him finding vegan (or very very nearly vegan) cultures; they were just not

the " healthy primitives " he was looking for. Remember, he wasn't doing an

objective survey of primitive diets; he was looking for the diets of

primitives who were nearly free of degenerative disease and poor physical

development. Even if he didn't chronicle such diets, that's not to say he

didn't pass over certain cultures entirely simply because they weren't the

paragons of health that he was seeking.

[Guest guest]

wow, interesting post. I never really thought about that, but it does

make perfect sense that mock soy foods are driving the movement. That

also explains my biggest confusion - why do vegans go so gaga about

soy when there are much healthier alternative. The answer is that

they're looking for meat! It will be interesting to watch the soy

bubble burst. Do you think many of today's vegans have it in them to

eat the more traditional grain based vegan way?

Anyways, no worries about me going vegan. Except for condiments, I

think the masai have it right - plant food is only fit for cattle!

[Guest guest]

> > Obviously that would be impossible, since WAP found that all

> > primitive societies included animal products in their diet.

>

> By the way, I don't think that's true. I thought I remembered

mention of

> him finding vegan (or very very nearly vegan) cultures; they were

just not

> the " healthy primitives " he was looking for. Remember, he wasn't

doing an

> objective survey of primitive diets; he was looking for the diets of

> primitives who were nearly free of degenerative disease and poor

physical

> development.

True, I vaguely remember at least one passage from NAPD when he talks

about this. I'll have to look it up. But my guess is still that he

didn't find any, and those that weren't healthy were unhealthy

because they ate the 'displacing foods of modern commerce' and not

because they had stopped eating insects and whatnot.

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:31:51 -0000 " justinbond " <justin_bond@...>

writes:

> > Obviously that would be impossible, since WAP found that all

> > primitive societies included animal products in their diet.

>

> By the way, I don't think that's true. I thought I remembered

mention of

> him finding vegan (or very very nearly vegan) cultures; they were

just not

> the " healthy primitives " he was looking for. Remember, he wasn't

doing an

> objective survey of primitive diets; he was looking for the diets of

> primitives who were nearly free of degenerative disease and poor

physical

> development.

True, I vaguely remember at least one passage from NAPD when he talks

about this. I'll have to look it up. But my guess is still that he

didn't find any, and those that weren't healthy were unhealthy

because they ate the 'displacing foods of modern commerce' and not

because they had stopped eating insects and whatnot.

Bianca:

Here is what Dr. Price said actually said:

" It is significant that I have as yet found no group that was building

and maintaining good bodies exclusively on plant foods. A number of

groups are endeavoring to so with marked evidence of failure. "

Chapter 16 of NAPD

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:28:49 -0000 " justinbond " <justin_bond@...>

writes:

Anyways, no worries about me going vegan. Except for condiments, I

think the masai have it right - plant food is only fit for cattle!

Whew!! I thought we were in danger of losing you <weg>

Bianca

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Bianca:

>

> Here is what Dr. Price said actually said:

>

> " It is significant that I have as yet found no group that was

building

> and maintaining good bodies exclusively on plant foods. A number of

> groups are endeavoring to so with marked evidence of failure. "

>

> Chapter 16 of NAPD

Thanks, good find. I'd lost track of that part and its a good quote

to have around.

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Whew!! I thought we were in danger of losing you <weg>

>

Not a chance - I'll stick to the dead, red and grassfed!