Re: Advice on stopping plaquinel to start Minocyclin therapy

[Guest guest]

Before I started on Minocin, a doc gave me a prescription for plaquenil.  I took

it for a month and it did relieve the pain as it is an antiinflammatory.  But

when I went to an A/P doc a month later, he told me he would prefer if I didn't

take any more plaquenil.  He didn't say why and didn't say I could not.  He just

said, he preferred it if I would discontinue it.  So I did and continued to get

better on the Minocin only.  Later on I found out that Minocin at 100mg taken

twice a day acted as an antiinflammatory also. 18 months later I went into

remission and all my symptoms disappeared.

From: general_jah <jamespetty@...>

Subject: rheumatic Advice on stopping plaquinel to start Minocyclin therapy

rheumatic

Date: Friday, July 11, 2008, 1:14 PM

Hi all,

I've been taking Plaquinil for about the past 1.5 months and have since

had time to do some research on my RA. I've got my prescription for

Minocyclin going and am preparing to start my antibiotic therapy.

It seems to me to be pointless and possibly harmful to continue to take

the plaquinil if I am diving in with this therapy.

What are everyones thoughts on this?

[Guest guest]

>

> From: general_jah <jamespetty@...>

> Subject: rheumatic Advice on stopping plaquinel to start

Minocyclin therapy

> rheumatic

> Date: Friday, July 11, 2008, 1:14 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi all,

>

> I've been taking Plaquinil for about the past 1.5 months and have

since

> had time to do some research on my RA. I've got my prescription for

> Minocyclin going and am preparing to start my antibiotic therapy.

>

> It seems to me to be pointless and possibly harmful to continue to

take

> the plaquinil if I am diving in with this therapy.

>

> What are everyones thoughts on this?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Before I started on Minocin, a doc gave me a prescription for

plaquenil.  I took it for a month and it did relieve the pain as it is

an antiinflammatory.  But when I went to an A/P doc a month later, he

told me he would prefer if I didn't take any more plaquenil.  He didn't

say why and didn't say I could not.  He just said, he preferred it if I

would discontinue it.  So I did and continued to get better on the

Minocin only.  Later on I found out that Minocin at 100mg taken twice a

day acted as an antiinflammatory also. 18 months later I went into

remission and all my symptoms disappeared.

>

Mike how long did it take for you to noticed a reduction in

pain/inflamation with the Minocin?

[Guest guest]

Hi General Jah!  I am Dolores, Mike's wife and I am the one who took the

Plaquenil for one month.  I had a great reduction of pain during that one

month.  Each day I felt better.  When I went on the Minocin, I stopped the

Plaquenil the same day and never went backward.  I just kept on feeling better

and my symptoms started to disappear.  Dolores

From: general_jah <jamespetty@...>

Subject: rheumatic Re: Advice on stopping plaquinel to start Minocyclin

therapy

rheumatic

Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 1:05 AM

>

> Before I started on Minocin, a doc gave me a prescription for

plaquenil.  I took it for a month and it did relieve the pain as it is

an antiinflammatory.  But when I went to an A/P doc a month later, he

told me he would prefer if I didn't take any more plaquenil.  He didn't

say why and didn't say I could not.  He just said, he preferred it if I

would discontinue it.  So I did and continued to get better on the

Minocin only.  Later on I found out that Minocin at 100mg taken twice a

day acted as an antiinflammatory also. 18 months later I went into

remission and all my symptoms disappeared.

>

Mike how long did it take for you to noticed a reduction in

pain/inflamation with the Minocin?

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi General Jah!  I am Dolores, Mike's wife and I am the one who took

the Plaquenil for one month.  I had a great reduction of pain during

that one month.  Each day I felt better.  When I went on the Minocin, I

stopped the Plaquenil the same day and never went backward.  I just

kept on feeling better and my symptoms started to disappear.  Dolores

>

Mind if I ask what dosage schedule you were on and anything else you

might have been taking?

I'm planning to start minocin on monday when my pharmacy gets it in.

thanks !

[Guest guest]

I just stopped and never took another dose of Plaquenil.   I got the Minocin the

next day and started on the Minocin.  I didn't ask these questions.  I was so

new to antibiotic protocol and so sick with pulmonary fibrosis.  Had just been

told I had scleroderma and that it was incurable, but that my Rheumy doc could

keep me comfortable while I was in my dying process.  I was too desperate to

start the A/P.  I read the book by Scammell that month and was convinced that

A/P would save my life.  And guess what, it did.  I am well enough to work and

live a good life.  After going into remission after 18 months on Minocin only, I

learned that there are other protocols out there that use more antibiotics in

combo with Minocin which will go after the bugs that Minocin only will not get

at.  So, I am now on the Marshall Protocol which uses clindamycin, azythromycin,

Minocin, Benicar and sometimes Bactrim---depending on the person and the

disease.  I

may be on some sort of A/P for the rest of my life.  I'll do whatever it takes

not to go back to 2005 when I felt hopelessness.   Dolores

From: general_jah <jamespetty@...>

Subject: rheumatic Re: Advice on stopping plaquinel to start Minocyclin

therapy

rheumatic

Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 12:55 AM

>

> From: general_jah <jamespetty@ ...>

> Subject: rheumatic Advice on stopping plaquinel to start

Minocyclin therapy

> rheumatic@grou ps.com

> Date: Friday, July 11, 2008, 1:14 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi all,

>

> I've been taking Plaquinil for about the past 1.5 months and have

since

> had time to do some research on my RA. I've got my prescription for

> Minocyclin going and am preparing to start my antibiotic therapy.

>

> It seems to me to be pointless and possibly harmful to continue to

take

> the plaquinil if I am diving in with this therapy.

>

> What are everyones thoughts on this?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't remember what dosage of Plaquenil I was on.  That was 2005 and I only

took it for one month.  It did work pretty fast and I felt better by the time I

stopped and started Minocin.  I was warned that Plaquenil might harm my eyes and

I didn't like that idea.  I went to an eye doctor and he did the most extensive

eye exam I had ever had and wanted me to come back every six months for the same

exam.  I decided I would stop the plaquenil rather that have something else to

worry about.  My eyes are fine and so am I.  I think I made the right choice for

me.  But my choices are not necessarily the same choices others might take. 

These diseases are personally treated and each person must do what they feel is

best for them.  It also doesn't hurt to experiment a little with different types

of antibiotics.  The one thing to remember is that micoplasmas are slow growing,

slow dying so one must develop lots of patience, take a wait and see attitude

and not expect to feel better immediately.  It is a long time to recovery, if

ever.  Most of us who are doing well have been treating ourselves with

antibiotics for years and years.  Take care and good luck.  Keep telling us

about what you are doing and how you are doing.  This support group is fantastic

and it is people like yourself who make it so. Keep on learning, teaching and

experimenting with A/P.  You will soon find your very own best way to treat

yourself.  Once you are sure of what you want, teach the doc of your choice how

to treat you and if you are lucky to find an open minded doc, keep him or her. 

Best to you, Dolores 

From: Petty <jamespetty@...>

Subject: rheumatic Re: Advice on stopping plaquinel to start Minocyclin

therapy

rheumatic

Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 1:15 AM

>

> Hi General Jah!  I am Dolores, Mike's wife and I am the one who took

the Plaquenil for one month.  I had a great reduction of pain during

that one month.  Each day I felt better.  When I went on the Minocin, I

stopped the Plaquenil the same day and never went backward.  I just

kept on feeling better and my symptoms started to disappear.  Dolores

>

Mind if I ask what dosage schedule you were on and anything else you

might have been taking?

I'm planning to start minocin on monday when my pharmacy gets it in.

thanks !

[Guest guest]

>

> I don't remember what dosage of Plaquenil I was on.  That was 2005

and I only took it for one month.  It did work pretty fast and I felt

better by the time I stopped and started Minocin.  I was warned that

Plaquenil might harm my eyes and I didn't like that idea.  I went to

an eye doctor and he did the most extensive eye exam I had ever had

and wanted me to come back every six months for the same exam.  I

decided I would stop the plaquenil rather that have something else to

worry about.  My eyes are fine and so am I.  I think I made the right

choice for me.  But my choices are not necessarily the same choices

others might take.  These diseases are personally treated and each

person must do what they feel is best for them.  It also doesn't hurt

to experiment a little with different types of antibiotics.  The one

thing to remember is that micoplasmas are slow growing, slow dying so

one must develop lots of patience, take a wait and see attitude

> and not expect to feel better immediately.  It is a long time to

recovery, if ever.  Most of us who are doing well have been treating

ourselves with antibiotics for years and years.  Take care and good

luck.  Keep telling us about what you are doing and how you are

doing.  This support group is fantastic and it is people like

yourself who make it so. Keep on learning, teaching and experimenting

with A/P.  You will soon find your very own best way to treat

yourself.  Once you are sure of what you want, teach the doc of your

choice how to treat you and if you are lucky to find an open minded

doc, keep him or her.  Best to you, Dolores 

>

Do you remember what dosage of the minocin you were on or on now?

[Guest guest]

If Minocin acts as an anti-inflammatory, then it should diminish the pain (as

you said it did, in your case). But I have read where Minocin increases the pain

(perhaps due to the herxing?) So if the person experiences pain when taking

Minocin, then Minocin is NOT acting as an anti-inflammatory? Les

rheumatic Advice on stopping plaquinel to start Minocyclin therapy

rheumatic

Date: Friday, July 11, 2008, 1:14 PM

Hi all,

I've been taking Plaquinil for about the past 1.5 months and have since

had time to do some research on my RA. I've got my prescription for

Minocyclin going and am preparing to start my antibiotic therapy.

It seems to me to be pointless and possibly harmful to continue to take

the plaquinil if I am diving in with this therapy.

What are everyones thoughts on this?

[Guest guest]

Hi, I have been told that people with Scleroderma do not usually experience

herxes while on antibiotics as severly as others with different diseases.  I do

not know if this is true or not.  It is just something that I have read in these

posts over the last three years.  I have scleroderma and my pain began to

subside immediately when I started the Plaquenil.  Then I went to an A/P

specialist and he said he preferred if I didn't take the Plaquenil any more. So

I stopped. I have read in the posts that Plaquenil is an antiinflammatory.  If

this is true, then , yes, it worked on me.  But I only took it for one month. 

Then I started on the Minocin 200 mg daily(am & pm doses).  I did that for 18

months and saw continuous changes and great feeling of well-being in my body

with nary a herx.  Then I was told that Minocin in that dosage and  taken daily

for a two year period of time has an antiinflammatory effect also.  So, that

would explain why I

felt so good.  I was not on a pulsed dosage.  Now I am on the Marshall Protocol

where I take two antibiotics and they are pulsed.  I have been on that since

last September and am just beginning to feel herxing when I added the

clindamycin to the minocin. Maybe others out there can explain if it is true

that Scleroderma people have less severe herxing and if the Minocin taken daily

has an antiinfalmmatory effect or not. This is what I read and this is my

story.  You may have a totally different disease and sensitivity to medication

and your story may be totally different.  I don't know.  Maybe others can

enlighten us.  You pose a good question.  Dolores 

From: general_jah <jamespetty@suddenli nk.net>

Subject: rheumatic Advice on stopping plaquinel to start Minocyclin therapy

rheumatic@grou ps.com

Date: Friday, July 11, 2008, 1:14 PM

Hi all,

I've been taking Plaquinil for about the past 1.5 months and have since

had time to do some research on my RA. I've got my prescription for

Minocyclin going and am preparing to start my antibiotic therapy.

It seems to me to be pointless and possibly harmful to continue to take

the plaquinil if I am diving in with this therapy.

What are everyones thoughts on this?

[Guest guest]

explain pulsing.

Eva

mike rosner <martysfolks2004@...> wrote:

Hi, I have been told that people with Scleroderma do not usually

experience herxes while on antibiotics as severly as others with different

diseases. I do not know if this is true or not. It is just something that I

have read in these posts over the last three years. I have scleroderma and my

pain began to subside immediately when I started the Plaquenil. Then I went to

an A/P specialist and he said he preferred if I didn't take the Plaquenil any

more. So I stopped. I have read in the posts that Plaquenil is an

antiinflammatory. If this is true, then , yes, it worked on me. But I only

took it for one month. Then I started on the Minocin 200 mg daily(am & pm

doses). I did that for 18 months and saw continuous changes and great feeling

of well-being in my body with nary a herx. Then I was told that Minocin in that

dosage and taken daily for a two year period of time has an antiinflammatory

effect also. So, that would explain why I

felt so good. I was not on a pulsed dosage. Now I am on the Marshall Protocol

where I take two antibiotics and they are pulsed. I have been on that since

last September and am just beginning to feel herxing when I added the

clindamycin to the minocin. Maybe others out there can explain if it is true

that Scleroderma people have less severe herxing and if the Minocin taken daily

has an antiinfalmmatory effect or not. This is what I read and this is my story.

You may have a totally different disease and sensitivity to medication and your

story may be totally different. I don't know. Maybe others can enlighten us.

You pose a good question. Dolores

From: general_jah <jamespetty@suddenli nk.net>

Subject: rheumatic Advice on stopping plaquinel to start Minocyclin therapy

rheumatic@grou ps.com

Date: Friday, July 11, 2008, 1:14 PM

Hi all,

I've been taking Plaquinil for about the past 1.5 months and have since

had time to do some research on my RA. I've got my prescription for

Minocyclin going and am preparing to start my antibiotic therapy.

It seems to me to be pointless and possibly harmful to continue to take

the plaquinil if I am diving in with this therapy.

What are everyones thoughts on this?

[Guest guest]

Eva Holloway wrote:

> explain pulsing.

>

Not Dolores here, but pulsing is taking antiibiotics several times a week, not

every day.

I'm starting out on 50 mg Doxy, only on MWF. That is pulsing.

HTH,

[Guest guest]

My good friend with SD on the AP does not herx, My sister and I, both with

SD, on the AP herxed greatly but less and less severe over time. Patience

and endurance is the key. I wish you the best.

**************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music

scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!

(http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)

[Guest guest]

Dolores - Thanks for the further explanation. Seems that when you were on the

higher dose of Minocin,taking it every day, then you didn't feel a herx, but now

you are just starting to feel herxing (and I would assume some pain with that)

as you add the clindamycin to the pulsed Minocin that you had been taking when

you started on the MP (but when you had switched to pulsing the Minocin, you

still did not have herxing? Only since starting the clind. with it?)

I would guess that this might be a case of everyone's reaction to Minocin,

whether it's pulsed on constant, will be different, depending on their body's

chemistry, their disease, etc (still, it is interesting to read how various

people have reacted to it) Thank you - Les

rheumatic Advice on stopping plaquinel to start Minocyclin therapy

rheumatic@grou ps.com

Date: Friday, July 11, 2008, 1:14 PM

Hi all,

I've been taking Plaquinil for about the past 1.5 months and have since

had time to do some research on my RA. I've got my prescription for

Minocyclin going and am preparing to start my antibiotic therapy.

It seems to me to be pointless and possibly harmful to continue to take

the plaquinil if I am diving in with this therapy.

What are everyones thoughts on this?

[Guest guest]

Hi Les, This is why these diseases are difficult to treat and appear so

complicated.  One thing I forgot to add is that when I went on to the MP, I

started what they call the " Benicar Blockade.  I take Benicar 40mg every 6 hours

and chew an extra one if I have an intolerable herx.  The only time I really

needed extra Benicar was when I had heart herx.  That was scary because,

although it was not painful, I had a very irregular heart beat.  But there

again, I am just now starting to feel (what, I am not still sure of) but there

is discomfort at times.  I must admit that I also have a very high pain

tolerance.  I have my teeth done without Novacaine and always reject pain

medication after any surgery.  This is just me. Anyway, good to hear from you. 

What is your diagnosis and where are you from or at?  How long have you been

sick?  And where are you on the healing scale?  R U on any protocol or

medication? etc. The best to you, Dolores 

From: general_jah <jamespetty@ suddenli nk.net>

Subject: rheumatic Advice on stopping plaquinel to start Minocyclin therapy

rheumatic@grou ps.com

Date: Friday, July 11, 2008, 1:14 PM

Hi all,

I've been taking Plaquinil for about the past 1.5 months and have since

had time to do some research on my RA. I've got my prescription for

Minocyclin going and am preparing to start my antibiotic therapy.

It seems to me to be pointless and possibly harmful to continue to take

the plaquinil if I am diving in with this therapy.

What are everyones thoughts on this?

[Guest guest]

There you go, See!  We are all different and react quite differently. With these

diseases, one size does not fit all.  Best to you, Dolores

From: Sltfain@... <Sltfain@...>

Subject: Re: rheumatic Advice on stopping plaquinel to start Minocyclin

therapy

rheumatic

Date: Monday, July 14, 2008, 4:13 PM

My good friend with SD on the AP does not herx, My sister and I, both with

SD, on the AP herxed greatly but less and less severe over time. Patience

and endurance is the key. I wish you the best.

************ **Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music

scene in your area - Check out TourTracker. com!

(http://www.tourtrac ker.com?NCID= aolmus0005000000 0112)

[Guest guest]

Well said.  We forget that some of us have never heard of pulsing.  Taking

medication regularly on irregular days is called pulsing.  EG:  doses taken MWF

or T TH Sat or any combination thereof.  Not necessarily three days out of the

week.  It could be twice or once or once every other week.  Depends on the

medication taken, the half life, the expected results, the dosages, the reaction

of the patient and so on. I'm sure that is why Rheumatologists have decided a

long time ago that giving immune suppressants is a very easy way to treat

diseases that affect the immune system.  Notice I did not call these diseases

autoimmune diseases.  I don't believe our bodies attacks itself.  Rather, I

believe, that the Immune cells recognize the foreign invaders who have taken up

residence in our immune cells and attacks them.  Once we can convince the

doctors, then maybe they will all start treating us with antibiotics and

boosting the immune system so it

can do the work it was meant to do.  It is up to us to change the medical

community with information and by being live models. Give everyone you know a

copy of the A/P Protocol.  The best to all of us.~~~~~Dolores

> explain pulsing.

>

Not Dolores here, but pulsing is taking antiibiotics several times a week, not

every day.

I'm starting out on 50 mg Doxy, only on MWF. That is pulsing.

HTH,

[Guest guest]

Thank you Dolores,

I have always taken my medication on a daily routine, so I didn't know what

pulsing mend.

Eva

mike rosner <martysfolks2004@...> wrote:

Well said. We forget that some of us have never heard of pulsing.

Taking medication regularly on irregular days is called pulsing. EG: doses

taken MWF or T TH Sat or any combination thereof. Not necessarily three days

out of the week. It could be twice or once or once every other week. Depends

on the medication taken, the half life, the expected results, the dosages, the

reaction of the patient and so on. I'm sure that is why Rheumatologists have

decided a long time ago that giving immune suppressants is a very easy way to

treat diseases that affect the immune system. Notice I did not call these

diseases autoimmune diseases. I don't believe our bodies attacks itself.

Rather, I believe, that the Immune cells recognize the foreign invaders who have

taken up residence in our immune cells and attacks them. Once we can convince

the doctors, then maybe they will all start treating us with antibiotics and

boosting the immune system so it

can do the work it was meant to do. It is up to us to change the medical

community with information and by being live models. Give everyone you know a

copy of the A/P Protocol. The best to all of us.~~~~~Dolores

> explain pulsing.

>

Not Dolores here, but pulsing is taking antiibiotics several times a week, not

every day.

I'm starting out on 50 mg Doxy, only on MWF. That is pulsing.

HTH,

[Guest guest]

Hi Eva, When are you coming to Corpus.  You told me, but I forgot the date. 

Looking forward to seeing you.  Are you guys planning on going fishing?  Let me

know.  Write me privately and I'll give you my cell number.  Dolores & Mike 

> explain pulsing.

>

Not Dolores here, but pulsing is taking antiibiotics several times a week, not

every day.

I'm starting out on 50 mg Doxy, only on MWF. That is pulsing.

HTH,

[Guest guest]

It is definitely not harmful to continue the plaquenil -- and it may

or may not be pointless. I started on plaquenil and minocyline at the

same time. My rheumatologist was not sure about the AP and wanted to

get at the inflammation immediately. I was on 400 mg plaq/daily, and

100 mg minocycline, MWF. Over the last 9 months I have cut back the

plaquenil, first to 300 mg/daily, now down to 200 mg/daily. I will

probably cut out the plaquenil eventually -- but when you look at the

big picture I am on a very low dose of overall medication, and I feel

great. My doc doesn't want me to change a thing.

At this dosage I need no pain medicine, have no stomach trouble. My

husband is an ophthamologist and he checks my eyes every 6 months --

in his 25+ years of practice he has never seen a complication from

plaquenil, and he sees a lot of RA patients. I consider myself very

lucky. Both of these medications are pretty benign.

Good luck to you!

Bonnie

---

I've been taking Plaquinil for about the past 1.5 months and have

since had time to do some research on my RA. I've got my prescription

for Minocyclin going and am preparing to start my antibiotic therapy.

It seems to me to be pointless and possibly harmful to continue to

take the plaquinil if I am diving in with this therapy.

[Guest guest]

To each his own!  Everybody reacts differently and it sure helps to have an

opthalmologist for a husband.  Gives you a sese of security to have your eyes

checked often and having it done for free is a bonus.  For the rest of the

people on plaquenil, have your eyes checked every 6 months.  That won't hurt

either except maybe in the purse.  Good luck to you all and keep the info coming

in.  We learn daily from each other.  Best to you all, Dolores

From: bonlucas <bonlucas@...>

Subject: rheumatic Re: Advice on stopping plaquinel to start Minocyclin

therapy

rheumatic

Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 4:57 PM

It is definitely not harmful to continue the plaquenil -- and it may

or may not be pointless. I started on plaquenil and minocyline at the

same time. My rheumatologist was not sure about the AP and wanted to

get at the inflammation immediately. I was on 400 mg plaq/daily, and

100 mg minocycline, MWF. Over the last 9 months I have cut back the

plaquenil, first to 300 mg/daily, now down to 200 mg/daily. I will

probably cut out the plaquenil eventually -- but when you look at the

big picture I am on a very low dose of overall medication, and I feel

great. My doc doesn't want me to change a thing.

At this dosage I need no pain medicine, have no stomach trouble. My

husband is an ophthamologist and he checks my eyes every 6 months --

in his 25+ years of practice he has never seen a complication from

plaquenil, and he sees a lot of RA patients. I consider myself very

lucky. Both of these medications are pretty benign.

Good luck to you!

Bonnie

---

I've been taking Plaquinil for about the past 1.5 months and have

since had time to do some research on my RA. I've got my prescription

for Minocyclin going and am preparing to start my antibiotic therapy.

It seems to me to be pointless and possibly harmful to continue to

take the plaquinil if I am diving in with this therapy.

[Guest guest]

Hi Bonnie

How long were you on the plaquenil at 400mg a day? At the beginning

of taking it I was on 400 for only a month then went straight to

200mg a day. I'm doing the 400 again now together with 150mg mino MWF

(up from 100mg) but if it doesn't seem effective I may increase the

time a bit. I haven't had eye checks but will do so.

Ros