Re: High quality supplements?: Dr. Marasco

[Guest guest]

ine,

This is a tough question to answer because better than 90% of

what's out there is all about marketing. I would say go by brand and

reputation. The supplements must be made from food not synthetic.

If you are only willing to take synthetic supplements then do

yourself a favor and save your money and don't bother. Standard

Process in my mind is the current alpha and omega when it comes to

supplements, nobody has their 70 year track record, nobody produces

food based supplements grown on 8-10 feet of top soil except SP. And

as you may know from my previous posts SP is the only supplement my

family uses and its the only thing I recommend for clients and

patients. For those who for whatever reason don't want to use SP.

Doctors Research does a good job, Garden of Life does a good job.

And you'll find others here and there but quite honestly your quality

will come from a known company as opposed to a flashy label or

flyer. As for Rainbow Light they are just synthetic supplements mixed

with some herbs here and there. You can do better at any of the three

I mentioned. If you have more questions feel free to let me know.

Sincerely,

Dr. Marasco,BS,DC

Cincinnati, Oh

--- In @y..., " Food From Afar " <foodfromafar@c...>

wrote:

> >>Seek out the highest quality supplements elsewhere.

>

> How does one do this? How do I know what makes a good, high quality

> supplement? Is it just shopping by brand like Standard Process or

are there

> any helpful guidelines or standards to look for?

>

> How about Rainbow Light? Any opinion?

>

> ine

[Guest guest]

>> The supplements must be made from food not synthetic.

Do synthetic supplements do ANYTHING? I take Standard Process supplements,

but sometimes I find other products that " muscle test " good with me.

I am curious if synthetic supplements: are less potent? worthless? harmful?

should only be used for short term?

-Dan

[Guest guest]

> the company that probably meets most of my criteria.

> I'm not thrilled with their use of titanium dioxide

> as a capsule colorant, though. But, I do like

I did a bit of research on titanium dioxide a while back because I was also

concerned. I'm still not thrilled with the stuff, but *supposedly* it's

exremely chemically stable (inert) which means that it's not very likely to

cause problems. That probably doesn't make you feel a lot better since it

doesn't do that much for me either, but I thought I'd share it anyway...

[Guest guest]

Suze I am not familiar with the " superfood " product you spoke of. As

well I do not know of the term " GMP " if you tell me what it stands

for I might be of some help. You are asking for a lot. And when I

say that I mean this, you are asking for a company to do it as well

and exactly as you would do it if you were making the supplement

yourself. That ain't going to happen. Are there some things I'd

like different in some of the SP products yes. Is there anyone even

remotely close in quality control, soil quailty and effectiveness no

way, jose. Their products are tested constantly from harvesting to

bottling. I am far more picky about what I eat and what I supplement

with than any patient or client I have ever met and with very rare

exceptions the only place I go is SP for all the reasons you have

sited. As far as the asia herb situation, there are concerns

regarding every food or supplement product you buy where the source

cannot be verified, asia included as verification is even more

difficult than it is here. So as for the efficacy of these reports

you mention we can be as sure of truth of those as we can be of the

untruth of them. Point being we really don't know.

If you have more questions regarding SP or any others let me know.

DMM

> ine,

>

> Hi Dr. ,

>

> >>>This is a tough question to answer because better than 90% of

> what's out there is all about marketing. I would say go by brand and

> reputation. The supplements must be made from food not synthetic.

>

>

> ***I'm glad ine asked this question, because I'm still trying

to sort

> out supplement issues myself. And thank you for recommending the

three

> companies you did. I've been moving away from synthetic supplements

for the

> most part, and trying to locate carefully processed, organically-

grown or

> wildcrafted whole food supplements. There seem to be very few, and

I never

> know if the quality is what it's claimed to be. One complaint I

have about

> some of the superfood formulas, such as " Perfect Food " from Garden

of Life,

> for example, is that they contain a HUGE array of ingredients, and

I'd like

> to find something with fewer ingredients. This is in part, because

I'd like

> to find a superfood that I can feed my dogs as well as eat myself,

and their

> nutritional needs differ somewhat from mine. Some herbs that are OK

for

> humans, may be harmful to dogs. As well, when a supplement contains

a vast

> array of herbs to provide various nutrients, I question whether

there may be

> some undesirable biochemical interactions that were not anticipated

by the

> formulators. I have tried Superfood formulated by Dr. Schultze

because it's

> such a simple formula with a short ingredient list and is claimed

to be

> organic and/or wildcrafted. But I really have no idea how to check

the

> veracity of the claims about it's nutrient content. AND, I'm

concerned about

> possible contamination of heavy metals or other undesirable

substances, not

> just in Superfood, but all supplements I buy. Are you familiar with

> Superfood, and do you have an opinion on it? One of my dogs

recently had a

> bout with liver disease - a brief, extreme rise in liver enzymes,

and one

> potential cause I considered (among MANY) was microcystin

contamination in

> the spirulina blue-green algae (one of the ingredients in

Superfood). This

> incident, which may not have had anything to do with the Superfood,

just

> made me realize that I really don't know much about the quality of

> ingredients, and level of contamination, if any, in most of the

supplements

> I eat or feed my dogs. And that bothers me.

>

> All I ask for is a choice of carefully cultivated, organically

grown or

> wildcrafted foods, that are minimally processed and reasonably

priced. I

> also want clear nutritional data, and periodic batch testing for

toxins as

> well as nutrient content, and I want the results of the batch

testing

> published where I can read it. Am I asking too much? Is there any

company

> that offers such products? I realize that SP is far better than

most, and is

> the company that probably meets most of my criteria. I'm not

thrilled with

> their use of titanium dioxide as a capsule colorant, though. But, I

do like

> the company and will look more closely at their catalog listing to

see if

> there are better alternatives to some of my current supplements.

>

> I have a few general questions, and I'd love feedback from anyone

who can

> answer;

>

> 1) Does " GMP " mean anything? I mean, are GMP products any better

than non

> GMP products? Are GMP products periodically tested for nutrient

content,

> standardization and/or contaminants?

>

> 2) I've read recent literature suggesting that some herbal formulas

> manufactured in Asia have been found to be contaminated with heavy

metals

> and pharmaceuticals...does anyone know about this? Could this be

U.S.

> industry-sponsored literature with a political/economic agenda...or

is it

> true that some Asian countries have very lax regulation of herbal

product

> contamination?

>

> Hmmm...I know I have some other questions floating around in my

head, but

> I'd better get back to work now. I'd appreciate any input on these

issues

>

>

>

> Suze Fisher

> Web Design & Development

> http://www.suscom-maine.net/~cfisher/

> mailto:cfisher@b...

[Guest guest]

I very rare instances I may recommend one for very short term use

when SP doesn't make that particular product. When you supplement a

synthetic vitamin the bulk of its chemical structure has been

fractioned off. So when you ingest this fractionated structure it

will bind with nutrients inside your body in order to satisfy its

absorbtion requirements. In this context it steals nutrients from

one place to satisfy its needs. Ultimately long term resulting in

deficiencies or at least imbalances with what ever substances it

bound with and " stole " . The other possibility is it just passes on

thru and is never absorbed at all. Either way its a bad deal.

DMM

> >> The supplements must be made from food not synthetic.

>

> Do synthetic supplements do ANYTHING? I take Standard Process

supplements,

> but sometimes I find other products that " muscle test " good with me.

>

> I am curious if synthetic supplements: are less potent? worthless?

harmful?

> should only be used for short term?

>

> -Dan

[Guest guest]

Hey Suze,

I am familiar with the GMP standarization " stuff " and reveiwed the

link that you gave. It is essentially meaningless for supplements.

For drug companies it makes sense where you need specific amounts of

chemicals and need them to be duplicated many times. Good

supplements although you want the same amount in each tablet, tsp,

capsule, etc are exactly the opposite and ultimately these are very

minimal requirements. You know government regs they generally are

for " the lowest common denominator " . For me a company that sites a

minimalist gov't reg like that at the very least has a strike against

it. If you need more help just page me.

DMM

> >>>Suze I am not familiar with the " superfood " product you spoke

of. As

> well I do not know of the term " GMP " if you tell me what it stands

> for I might be of some help.

>

> Dr. Mike, " GMP " stands for " Good Manufacturing Practices. "

>

> " Good Manufacturing Practice regulations (GMPs) are used by

pharmaceutical,

> medical device, and food manufacturers as they produce and test

products

> that people use. (Drug GMPs also apply to the veterinary drugs.) In

the

> United States (U.S.), the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has

issued

> these regulations as the minimum requirements. "

> http://www.cgmp.com/

>

> I was just wondering if GMP nutraceutical companies really have

better

> products than non-GMP ones...

>

> >>>>You are asking for a lot.

>

> ***Yes, I am

>

>

> >>>>And when I

> say that I mean this, you are asking for a company to do it as well

> and exactly as you would do it if you were making the supplement

> yourself. That ain't going to happen.

>

> ***I'm a hopeless optimist. So, still holding out hope.

>

>

> >>>Are there some things I'd

> like different in some of the SP products yes. Is there anyone even

> remotely close in quality control, soil quailty and effectiveness no

> way, jose. Their products are tested constantly from harvesting to

> bottling. I am far more picky about what I eat and what I supplement

> with than any patient or client I have ever met and with very rare

> exceptions the only place I go is SP for all the reasons you have

> sited.

>

> ***Well, at least I'm not alone in demanding high quality whole food

> supplements. I just hope that enough of us will create a greater

demand so

> that more companies will heed it, as SP does. Thanks for your

input, I

> appreciate it

>

>

> Suze Fisher

> Web Design & Development

> http://www.suscom-maine.net/~cfisher/

> mailto:cfisher@b...

[Guest guest]

Here is my two cents...

In my clinical experience, I found nearly every supplement I tried to be

useless. Period. Just a flat out joke. Didn't matter what it said or how

it was made, they simply did not work in helping to cure the incurables.

Oftentimes they were even toxic in their effects. Keep in mind that I was

usually dealing with someone that was terminally ill, so crap just wasn't

tolerated. On the other hand, if it worked for sick people it certainly

would work for others.

I know of nothing that you can buy at retail that fits the bill. Nothing.

There may be something out there that does but I could never find it. I

read somewhere that Aajonus Vonderplanitz tested over 1200 supplements

and only 3 were worth anything. I believe him.

The only supplement I found of any help was Dr. Schulze's Super Food,

which is actually concentrated green foods as opposed to being a

supplement. He created this formula to get nutrition into the dying

people he was dealing with. On occasion I had to manipulate his formula

based on the individual patient but in general this stuff is outstanding.

Dr. Schulze, to put it mildly, is a fanatic, and I mean this in a *very*

good sense. I have visited his " warehouse " in Santa . He even has

the timing of the mixing of the ingredients down to about 30 seconds or

less so as not to generate any heat and render the foods less effective..

Having said that you still need to be alert because unless you harvest

and make your own supplements, *things are always subject to change* even

from the best of us.

Second is the special organs of animals both land and sea. Brain, thymus,

adrenals, eyes, etc. are loaded with concentrated nutrients. Most of this

stuff is repugnant to most folks but if you can work them into your diet

that is great.

Third are bee products (pollen, royal jelly, propolis) but these are

*extremely* difficult to procure in a viable state. Let me repeat,

*EXTREMELY* difficult to procure in a viable state no matter what the

marketing material says. Unfortunately, with all three things I mentioned

above *you* have to become a *fanatic* about obtaining superior quality

or you are just wasting your money.

For whatever its worth,

Bianca.

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:54:49 -0500 " Food From Afar "

<foodfromafar@...> writes:

>>Seek out the highest quality supplements elsewhere.

How does one do this? How do I know what makes a good, high quality

supplement? Is it just shopping by brand like Standard Process or are

there

any helpful guidelines or standards to look for?

How about Rainbow Light? Any opinion?

ine

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:03:02 -0500 " Suze Fisher " <cfisher@...>

writes:

2) I've read recent literature suggesting that some herbal formulas

manufactured in Asia have been found to be contaminated with heavy metals

and pharmaceuticals...does anyone know about this? Could this be U.S.

industry-sponsored literature with a political/economic agenda...or is it

true that some Asian countries have very lax regulation of herbal product

contamination?

ME: Don't buy herbal formulas from overseas. Don't buy any herb that is

imported, even if is labeled organic. They have all been sprayed in order

to be allowed in this country, without exception.

Your best bet is to buy local wildcrafted or organic herbs and make your

own tinctures. They will be of a much higher quality than anything you

can buy at retail.

Bianca

[Guest guest]

>>>he only supplement I found of any help was Dr. Schulze's Super Food,

which is actually concentrated green foods as opposed to being a

supplement.

Bianca,

Do you know if Superfood is tested for contaminants, even occasionally? I'm

debating whether to continue using it...I just feel like I don't have a good

sense about the QC, although I have heard that Dr. Schulze is VERY

PARTICULAR about the quality of his supps. But I'd rather SEE an assay,

although I realize that's probably not going to happen unless I test it

myself.

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://www.suscom-maine.net/~cfisher/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:04:18 -0500 " s.fisher22 " <s.fisher22@...>

writes:

>>>he only supplement I found of any help was Dr. Schulze's Super Food,

which is actually concentrated green foods as opposed to being a

supplement.

Bianca,

Do you know if Superfood is tested for contaminants, even occasionally?

I'm

debating whether to continue using it...I just feel like I don't have a

good

sense about the QC, although I have heard that Dr. Schulze is VERY

PARTICULAR about the quality of his supps. But I'd rather SEE an assay,

although I realize that's probably not going to happen unless I test it

myself.

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://www.suscom-maine.net/~cfisher/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

Hi Suze,

Yes Dr. Schulze is very particular. I know one of my herbal suppliers

finds him rather annoying because they think he causes people to be *too

particular* about what they buy. Sorry, I have to side with Dr. Schulze

on this one, for a number of reasons.

I don't know if he tests for contaminants. My guess would be he probably

does. What I used to do every year when I was making my own formula is to

go and personally inspect each individual ingredient that I used. If the

supplier wasn't up to snuff they quickly became history. On things like

spirulina and cholera I was interested in where they were grown before I

started checking as to waht was happening up the food chain. I have heard

that he does this but I don't know for sure since I haven't spoken with

ABP for sometime.

The best bet is to write him and ask him.

Bianca

[Guest guest]

Bianca-

>Don't buy any herb that is

>imported, even if is labeled organic. They have all been sprayed in order

>to be allowed in this country, without exception.

Is this due to statute, or just common practice? What about tinctures,

supplements, etc., that have been prepared (i.e. rendered into a liquid

tincture, or a pill extract, etc.) before being imported?

-

[Guest guest]

>>>>ME: Don't buy herbal formulas from overseas. Don't buy any herb that is

imported, even if is labeled organic. They have all been sprayed in order

to be allowed in this country, without exception.

***Do you think that would include *rose hips* that are harvested in China,

but may be manufactured and distributed in S. Africa? I guess a rose hip

might be classified as as an herb. I ask because this particular rose hip,

cili bao, has the highest concentration of SOD known of any plant, and has

been of great benefit to a number of animals with cancer, arthritis and

other degenerative diseases. One dog with osteosarcoma, went into complete

remission on cili bao.

I eat it myself and feed it to my dogs regularly. It passes S. African

organic certification and is becoming more popular here in the states. Any

tips on how I can find out about possible spraying of this or any other

imported product? Do you know of a lab that has reasonable prices for

testing foods/supps for nutrient content and contaminants? I've considered

testing a few things, such as cili bao and Superfood, which I believe are

two extraordinary products...but ones I don't feel completely comfortable

with in terms of QC, because I don't know *what* QC they undergo.

So many US produced products contain raw materials from other countries as

well...are they, too sprayed, to your knowledge? Do you know where I can

read primary documents on this - the spraying of all imported herbs?

Thanks!

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://www.suscom-maine.net/~cfisher/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:25:31 -0500 Idol <Idol@...>

writes:

Bianca-

>Don't buy any herb that is

>imported, even if is labeled organic. They have all been sprayed in

order

>to be allowed in this country, without exception.

Is this due to statute, or just common practice? What about tinctures,

supplements, etc., that have been prepared (i.e. rendered into a liquid

tincture, or a pill extract, etc.) before being imported?

-

,

This was/is FDA statute. Let me do some research and give you the

original documentation.

So often overseas herbs in any form are highly contaminated. That doesn't

mean every one is but many are. But even if they aren't if you want

tinctures that are super effective you simply should make your own or

failing that buy from Dr. Schulze. Do what the late Dr.

suggested, " eat from under your own fig tree. " From my experience, there

is nothing you can get overseas that an equivalent in effectiveness can't

be found here, probably in your own backyard.

Bianca

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:30:20 -0500 " s.fisher22 " <s.fisher22@...>

writes:

>>>>ME: Don't buy herbal formulas from overseas. Don't buy any herb that

is

imported, even if is labeled organic. They have all been sprayed in order

to be allowed in this country, without exception.

***Do you think that would include *rose hips* that are harvested in

China,

but may be manufactured and distributed in S. Africa? <snip>

Bianca: It just might but I don't know for sure. My guess would be that

it does include rose hips.

I eat it myself and feed it to my dogs regularly. It passes S. African

organic certification and is becoming more popular here in the states.

Any

tips on how I can find out about possible spraying of this or any other

imported product?

Bianca: I have an article on it. Maybe I can upload it to the file

section. Any tips on how to do that?

Do you know of a lab that has reasonable prices for

testing foods/supps for nutrient content and contaminants?

Bianca: Funny you should mention that as I am currently in the process of

finding one that I can trust. I originally used one that was recommended

by some cancer research folks at Fred Hutchinson. Not sure about them and

they weren't to keen on me either. Will let you know when I come up with

something.

<snip>

So many US produced products contain raw materials from other countries

as

well...are they, too sprayed, to your knowledge? Do you know where I can

read primary documents on this - the spraying of all imported herbs?

Bianca: working on getting some primary documents. If I remember

correctly from the article however no one was willing to fess up until

someone actually went to the port and witnessed the spraying. Sheez! My

first clue from personal experience was when one of my clients was

breaking out from a so called organic herb. A little detective work and

we found the problem.

[Guest guest]

Most big herb wholesalers will not say anything definate about

spraying the herbs, but once I was able to talk with someone at one

of the big herb companies and when I asked her about it, she went to

check on it, came back and told me that yes, they do spray all

imported herbs with ethylene oxide(a known carcinogen!!). US grown

are not sprayed she said. I'm pretty sure that she doesn't have THAT

job anymore!

Becky

> So many US produced products contain raw materials from other

countries

> as

> well...are they, too sprayed, to your knowledge? Do you know where

I can

> read primary documents on this - the spraying of all imported herbs?

>

>

> Bianca: working on getting some primary documents. If I remember

> correctly from the article however no one was willing to fess up

until

> someone actually went to the port and witnessed the spraying.

Sheez! My

> first clue from personal experience was when one of my clients was

> breaking out from a so called organic herb. A little detective work

and

> we found the problem.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I wrote:

Any tips on how I can find out about possible spraying of this or any other

imported product?

Bianca: I have an article on it. Maybe I can upload it to the file

section. Any tips on how to do that?

Me again:

Bianca, that would be great! However, I just went to the

web site and saw that the " files " link is not active. That means the list

owner has not made it possible for members to upload files to the list

archive.

List owner - this is a very handy feature of the web site and would allow us

to share articles, abstracts, research studies, etc. Any chance you could

activitate that feature?

I wrote: Do you know of a lab that has reasonable prices for

testing foods/supps for nutrient content and contaminants?

Bianca: Funny you should mention that as I am currently in the process of

finding one that I can trust. I originally used one that was recommended

by some cancer research folks at Fred Hutchinson. Not sure about them and

they weren't to keen on me either. Will let you know when I come up with

something.

Me: Please do...you seem to be very particular about QC yourself, which is a

quality I admire and would like to see a lot more of in consumers as well as

health care professionals!

>>>>Bianca: working on getting some primary documents. If I remember

correctly from the article however no one was willing to fess up until

someone actually went to the port and witnessed the spraying. Sheez!

***Lovely... However, if it's this type of thing you were referring to, then

I'm not worried about cili bao, as it's vacuum sealed in 10 g sachets - not

something that would be targeted for spraying at the port of entry.

Thanks again for offering to look for the documents.

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://www.suscom-maine.net/~cfisher/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

>>>>Most big herb wholesalers will not say anything definate about

spraying the herbs, but once I was able to talk with someone at one

of the big herb companies and when I asked her about it, she went to

check on it, came back and told me that yes, they do spray all

imported herbs with ethylene oxide(a known carcinogen!!). US grown

are not sprayed she said. I'm pretty sure that she doesn't have THAT

job anymore!

****Becky, thanks so much for sharing this info. Would you mind sharing the

name of the herbal company you spoke with?

So now, what I'm trying to figure out, is what *type* of herbs would be

sprayed? By that, I mean, are only bulk herbs sprayed? I was originally

concerned about a product that comes from China via. S. Africa, but it comes

in vacuum sealed 10 g packets, which obviously could not be sprayed upon

entry into this country. So, I'm left wondering what form of incoming herbs

are sprayed other than bulk, if any...any idea?

And I did just do a quick check on ethylene oxide. Here's what OSHA says

about it:

Both human and animal studies suggest that EtO is a potential occupational

carcinogen, causing leukemia and other cancers. EtO has also been linked to

reproductive damage, including spontaneous abortions; cytogenetic damage;

neurological effects ranging from nausea and dizziness to peripheral

paralysis; and tissue irritation.

http://www.osha-slc.gov/OshDoc/Fact_data/FSNO95-17.html

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://www.suscom-maine.net/~cfisher/

mailto:s.fisher22@...