liver

[Guest guest]

Judy,

You mentioned your liver was toxic, do you know the actual numbers? I have

been having liver problems from Arava and am waiting for a biopsy so that I

can get back on MTX. My Doc says " these things only happen to

you " .......aparently not.

Barb

-----Original Message-----

From: Judy <rrjsen@...>

egroups < egroups>

Date: Thursday, May 04, 2000 8:49 AM

Subject: [ ] liver

>My liver blood tests just came back toxic. I am on Enbrel, liver problems

>are not a known side effect.

>

>Does RA affect the Liver? Just when things get going for me, kaboom -

>another pitfall. I am happy for what I have, and thankful I am as healthy

>as I am. Right now I am just concerned as I don't know much about the

>liver! Time to go do some web research.

>

>Thanks,

>

>Judy

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

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>

[Guest guest]

Judy,

I am so sorry to hear about your liver enzymes being elevated. I wish I had

some information

for you. Mine were elevated when I was on azathioprine. It felt like having a

really bad

case of the flu and I was exhasted!! How long have you been on the Enbrel? It

seems odd that

it would be so delayed. Please keep us posted and take good care of our Judy!!!

Trish

--- Judy <rrjsen@...> wrote:

> My liver blood tests just came back toxic. I am on Enbrel, liver problems

> are not a known side effect.

>

> Does RA affect the Liver? Just when things get going for me, kaboom -

> another pitfall. I am happy for what I have, and thankful I am as healthy

> as I am. Right now I am just concerned as I don't know much about the

> liver! Time to go do some web research.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Judy

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Make good on the promises you made when you signed your friends'

> yearbooks. Classmates.com has 6 million registered High School

> Alumni, so chances are you'll find your friends here:

> 1/3956/4/_/478567/_/957455259/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> URL to change your membership options: /group/

> RA-support website: http://www.rasupport.webprovider.com/

> Our chat room: www.delphi.com/RheumatoidArth1/start

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Judy,

Can your thyroid medicine affect the liver?

I haven't heard of anything like this with Enbrel.

This is not good. What does your rheumy think?

a

----- Original Message -----

From: Judy <rrjsen@...>

< egroups>

Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 11:48 AM

Subject: [ ] liver

> My liver blood tests just came back toxic. I am on Enbrel, liver problems

> are not a known side effect.

>

> Does RA affect the Liver? Just when things get going for me, kaboom -

> another pitfall. I am happy for what I have, and thankful I am as healthy

> as I am. Right now I am just concerned as I don't know much about the

> liver! Time to go do some web research.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Judy

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Make good on the promises you made when you signed your friends'

> yearbooks. Classmates.com has 6 million registered High School

> Alumni, so chances are you'll find your friends here:

> 1/3956/4/_/478567/_/957455259/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> URL to change your membership options:

/group/

> RA-support website: http://www.rasupport.webprovider.com/

> Our chat room: www.delphi.com/RheumatoidArth1/start

>

[Guest guest]

a,

No, it is not my thyroid medication, I asked. I have an appt. with my

Rheumy in two weeks to go over the bone density scan - we will deal with

the liver problem at the same time. No, this is not good. I have been

bummed all day.

Thanks,

Judy

-----Original Message-----

From: a [sMTP:aA@...]

Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 6:05 PM

egroups

Subject: Re: [ ] liver

Judy,

Can your thyroid medicine affect the liver?

I haven't heard of anything like this with Enbrel.

This is not good. What does your rheumy think?

a

[Guest guest]

Judy,

I would be bummed too. Since he is not doing anything for 2 weeks, maybe it

is not elevated a lot. Did you get a copy of your lab report?

a

----- Original Message -----

From: Judy Sybert <rrjsen@...>

< egroups>

Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 6:14 PM

Subject: RE: [ ] liver

> a,

>

> No, it is not my thyroid medication, I asked. I have an appt. with my

> Rheumy in two weeks to go over the bone density scan - we will deal with

> the liver problem at the same time. No, this is not good. I have been

> bummed all day.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Judy

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: a [sMTP:aA@...]

> Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 6:05 PM

> egroups

> Subject: Re: [ ] liver

>

> Judy,

>

> Can your thyroid medicine affect the liver?

> I haven't heard of anything like this with Enbrel.

> This is not good. What does your rheumy think?

>

> a

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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> Our chat room: www.delphi.com/RheumatoidArth1/start

>

[Guest guest]

Not yet, I am going to go pick it up from the family doctor tomorrow or

Monday. He Faxed it over to my RA doctor. What can they do? I cannot go off

Enbrel.

Judy

At 06:37 PM 5/4/2000 -0400, you wrote:

>Judy,

>

>I would be bummed too. Since he is not doing anything for 2 weeks, maybe it

>is not elevated a lot. Did you get a copy of your lab report?

>

>a

[Guest guest]

Judy,

As much reading as we all do, we haven't seen any side effects of enbrel

that affect the liver. That is not saying it isn't possible, but before I

went off of it, I would search every other possibility. This is a real

stumper because you are not on a lot of meds. You've had enough going on

without more shit in the pot, pardon my expression.

a

----- Original Message -----

From: Judy <rrjsen@...>

< egroups>

Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 8:36 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] liver

> Not yet, I am going to go pick it up from the family doctor tomorrow or

> Monday. He Faxed it over to my RA doctor. What can they do? I cannot go

off

> Enbrel.

>

> Judy

>

> At 06:37 PM 5/4/2000 -0400, you wrote:

> >Judy,

> >

> >I would be bummed too. Since he is not doing anything for 2 weeks, maybe

it

> >is not elevated a lot. Did you get a copy of your lab report?

> >

> >a

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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> URL to change your membership options:

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> Our chat room: www.delphi.com/RheumatoidArth1/start

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry to hear of the latest liver trouble for you, Judy! Check this out:

http://thedailyapple.com/level3/s3/snathhm.htm

It mentions " liver toxicity " as a possible side-effect of Enbrel. I saw a

few other similar mentions at other sites.

I don't see any mention of liver toxicity at Immunex sites though. Hmmmmm.

Still looking around.

----- Original Message -----

From: " Judy " <rrjsen@...>

< egroups>

Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 10:48 AM

Subject: [ ] liver

> My liver blood tests just came back toxic. I am on Enbrel, liver problems

> are not a known side effect.

>

> Does RA affect the Liver? Just when things get going for me, kaboom -

> another pitfall. I am happy for what I have, and thankful I am as healthy

> as I am. Right now I am just concerned as I don't know much about the

> liver! Time to go do some web research.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Judy

[Guest guest]

! WOW! From the beginning I have had problems with diaherra! It is all

here:

" Enbrel seems to cause far fewer serious side effects than other arthritis

treatments, which among other things can cause diarrhea and liver toxicity.

The most notable problem with Enbrel was that 37 percent of patients had a

reaction at the site of injection such as itching. "

Thanks !

Judy

At 12:19 AM 5/5/2000 -0500, you wrote:

>Sorry to hear of the latest liver trouble for you, Judy! Check this out:

>

>http://thedailyapple.com/level3/s3/snathhm.htm

>

>It mentions " liver toxicity " as a possible side-effect of Enbrel. I saw a

>few other similar mentions at other sites.

>

>I don't see any mention of liver toxicity at Immunex sites though. Hmmmmm.

>Still looking around.

>

>

>

>

>----- Original Message -----

>From: " Judy " <rrjsen@...>

>< egroups>

>Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 10:48 AM

>Subject: [ ] liver

>

>

>> My liver blood tests just came back toxic. I am on Enbrel, liver problems

>> are not a known side effect.

>>

>> Does RA affect the Liver? Just when things get going for me, kaboom -

>> another pitfall. I am happy for what I have, and thankful I am as healthy

>> as I am. Right now I am just concerned as I don't know much about the

>> liver! Time to go do some web research.

>>

>> Thanks,

>>

>> Judy

>

>

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

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>URL to change your membership options:

/group/

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>Our chat room: www.delphi.com/RheumatoidArth1/start

>

>

[Guest guest]

You are very welcome, Judy. Here's another link. This one's from Medscape.

They do mention liver enzyme elevations, too:

www.medscape.com/medscape/Rheumatology/TreatmentUpdate/1999/tu01/tu01-03.htm

l

Hope you levels aren't too high.

----- Original Message -----

From: " Judy " <rrjsen@...>

< egroups>

Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 12:30 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] liver

> ! WOW! From the beginning I have had problems with diaherra! It is all

> here:

>

> " Enbrel seems to cause far fewer serious side effects than other arthritis

> treatments, which among other things can cause diarrhea and liver

toxicity.

> The most notable problem with Enbrel was that 37 percent of patients had a

> reaction at the site of injection such as itching. "

>

> Thanks !

>

> Judy

>

[Guest guest]

Judy,

Have you called the Enbrel hotline and talked to them? Just an idea. Hope

your better soon. Tery

[Guest guest]

Is liver from the grocery store worth eating?

[Guest guest]

-only if you are insane, go to your local small meat processing plant

and ask who they process for that is to your liking.

No hormones ect. liver is usally discarded from small producers

leslieiniowa wrote:

> Is liver from the grocery store worth eating?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> >maybe I don't need it. It's a little disappointing

> >because I have some bad health problems and I was

> >kinda hoping that if I was brave and tough and learned

> >how to eat this disgusting stuff I might see some

> >results.

You might try making a " bloody " ? Back

in the '70s there was a trend to eating raw

liver in smoothies -- with tomato juice and

lots of spices. I have no idea what it tastes

like, but at worst you could swallow quick.

Actually with celery and cayenne and salt

it might be pretty good.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

Don't forget the Vodka!!!

Actually, I made a killer fermented V-8 juice a couple of weeks ago and it's

still going strong in my fridge:

6 large tomatoes

1 small beet

4 carrots

2 celery stalks

1/2 bunch of spinach

2 garlic cloves

juice of two lemons

tabasco sauce

salt

whey

Juice what can be juiced and add the rest. Pour into airtight jars and let sit

out for 3 days. Then put in fridge.

Bloody s for Easter Morning! Yum Yum.

Re: liver

> >maybe I don't need it. It's a little disappointing

> >because I have some bad health problems and I was

> >kinda hoping that if I was brave and tough and learned

> >how to eat this disgusting stuff I might see some

> >results.

You might try making a " bloody " ? Back

in the '70s there was a trend to eating raw

liver in smoothies -- with tomato juice and

lots of spices. I have no idea what it tastes

like, but at worst you could swallow quick.

Actually with celery and cayenne and salt

it might be pretty good.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

That's exactly how I do it. I try to overpower the liver flavor with

garlic, cayenne, onion, tomato, etc... Seems to really work! Just be

sure to blend a long time or strain the final smoothie...

Becky

>

> You might try making a " bloody " ? Back

> in the '70s there was a trend to eating raw

> liver in smoothies -- with tomato juice and

> lots of spices. I have no idea what it tastes

> like, but at worst you could swallow quick.

> Actually with celery and cayenne and salt

> it might be pretty good.

>

>

> Heidi S

[Guest guest]

,

Have you ever marinated the raw liver in lemon juice before eating,

like Sally suggests in her cooked liver recipe?

As for starting out with smaller portions, if the liver comes frozen

I didn't think it would be o.k. to thaw it enough to cut up and then

refreeze for later use. Or is that o.k.?

[Guest guest]

-

>Have you ever marinated the raw liver in lemon juice before eating,

>like Sally suggests in her cooked liver recipe?

Not for raw eating, but I didn't like it when I tried it for cooked liver,

and I'm not sure it's a good way to eat meat anyway, at least not on a

regular basis.

>I didn't think it would be o.k. to thaw it enough to cut up and then

>refreeze for later use. Or is that o.k.?

No, refreezing is never good, but liver typically comes in relatively thin

slices, so you should be able to cut it up into smaller portions when it's

barely softened.

-

[Guest guest]

>>>>>Have you ever marinated the raw liver in lemon juice before eating,

>like Sally suggests in her cooked liver recipe?

----->lisa, i have, and let me tell you, it's a helluva lot more palitable

to me when soaked in lemon! thanks for reminding me. i've got a chunk of raw

liver sitting in my fridge now...yesterday's experiment of pureeing it and

mixing it with a little kefir was horrendous. yuck! i'm going to go soak it

in either lemon or raw vinegar right now. that should take the edge off :-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

,

> >Have you ever marinated the raw liver in lemon juice before eating,

> >like Sally suggests in her cooked liver recipe?

>

> Not for raw eating, but I didn't like it when I tried it for cooked

liver,

> and I'm not sure it's a good way to eat meat anyway, at least not

on a

> regular basis.

>

What's the problem for lemon and meat? Granted, I can see it now

being traditional for our climate since we're not in the tropics, but

is there some other reason?

I soak my liver in lemon juice before I cook it (thin strips quickly

panfried in bacon grease). I like it fine, but have never had liver

any other way. My dad says my liver is the best he's ever had, but I

wonder if that has more to do with the quality of the liver and that

I don't overcook it than with the lemon soaking.

I like that the lemon makes the raw meat I eat appear more " cooked. "

It goes down much easier (psychologically).

[Guest guest]

Is there any problem with using ginger to marinade the meat?

Ginger is GREAT as a marinade!

umm, maybe some ginger, and kefir!

Zahra

In a message dated 4/18/03 11:55:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lm324@...

writes:

> I like that the lemon makes the raw meat I eat appear more " cooked. "

> It goes down much easier (psychologically).

>

[Guest guest]

-

>What's the problem for lemon and meat? Granted, I can see it now

>being traditional for our climate since we're not in the tropics, but

>is there some other reason?

The acid marinade might lead to MSG problems, and the metabolic

type/tradition issue is probably well worth considering. Also, I've

noticed that when I eat raw meat that I've marinated in an acid medium

(which was typically lemon juice) I didn't get any health boost out of it,

whereas when I ate raw meat unmarinated (though typically with some kind of

fatty low-carb sauce) I noticed a definite boost.

>My dad says my liver is the best he's ever had, but I

>wonder if that has more to do with the quality of the liver and that

>I don't overcook it than with the lemon soaking.

All those factors no doubt contribute. I won't say that raw liver is a

taste treat, but it's certainly no longer a problem for me.

-

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I hate liver but I ordered some bison liver because of all that you

have said. What is the first way I should try to eat it. Something

that won't turn my stomach, please. I would like 2 ways, raw and

cooked.

Thanks,

Del

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> -

>

> >What's the problem for lemon and meat? Granted, I can see it now

> >being traditional for our climate since we're not in the tropics,

but

> >is there some other reason?

>

> The acid marinade might lead to MSG problems, and the metabolic

> type/tradition issue is probably well worth considering. Also,

I've

> noticed that when I eat raw meat that I've marinated in an acid

medium

> (which was typically lemon juice) I didn't get any health boost out

of it,

> whereas when I ate raw meat unmarinated (though typically with some

kind of

> fatty low-carb sauce) I noticed a definite boost.

>

> >My dad says my liver is the best he's ever had, but I

> >wonder if that has more to do with the quality of the liver and

that

> >I don't overcook it than with the lemon soaking.

>

> All those factors no doubt contribute. I won't say that raw liver

is a

> taste treat, but it's certainly no longer a problem for me.

>

>

>

> -

[Guest guest]

Del-

>What is the first way I should try to eat it. Something

>that won't turn my stomach, please. I would like 2 ways, raw and

>cooked.

For raw, I'd suggest taking a very small piece, maybe an inch or two

square, and cutting it into truly tiny pieces, a centimeter square or even

smaller, and trying to swallow one tiny piece at a time either without

chewing or with just one molar bite.

For cooked, I guess you could marinate it in lemon juice and cook it in

bacon fat or lard, but make sure not to overcook it.

-

[Guest guest]

Can I add onions and should it be kinda pink when you say don't over

cook? What do I eat with it?

Thanks,

Del

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> Del-

>

> >What is the first way I should try to eat it. Something

> >that won't turn my stomach, please. I would like 2 ways, raw and

> >cooked.

>

> For raw, I'd suggest taking a very small piece, maybe an inch or

two

> square, and cutting it into truly tiny pieces, a centimeter square

or even

> smaller, and trying to swallow one tiny piece at a time either

without

> chewing or with just one molar bite.

>

> For cooked, I guess you could marinate it in lemon juice and cook

it in

> bacon fat or lard, but make sure not to overcook it.

>

>

>

>

> -