Re: Optimal thyroid blood levels

[Guest guest]

Barb wrote:

> Well see, that's where I question this one size fits all " optimum

> blood range. " And I think that's why Val always asks about temps and

> BP and other symptoms, because lab values aren't the end all, as

> shown by the dichotomy in some people's saliva and blood. If I

> already hit 98.8 on 1.75 grains, what would my temp be if I pushed

> for top of range T3?

Barb,

Just my two cents, but I think symptoms are of the overriding

importance. As many of us, I spent far too many decades being told my

thyroid was normal, based on TSH. I don't know what my TSH used to be,

but I KNOW I wasn't " normal " by my symptoms. Lab results just don't tell

the whole story. I believe all my saliva lab results to be accurate

because the results fit my symptoms at the time, and they also explained

a lot of my past experience with supplements.

sol

[Guest guest]

I agree, and that's why I'm getting saliva labs next month. I'm

basing " optimization " on this from sttm:

To find our optimal dose, we dose by three criteria in no particular

order:

1) the complete elimination of symptoms,

[cold hands disappeared at 1.5 grains; brain fog disappeared at 1.75

grains; cold feet disappeared at 2 grains and eyebrows started

filling in]

2) a mid-afternoon temp of 98.6, using a mercury thermometer or a

proven-accurate digital, and

[i hit 98.8 each month during my period]

3) a free T3 towards the top of the range, no matter how low it WILL

get the TSH. The three criteria have to be in conjunction with plenty

of cortisol, whether from healthy adrenals or cortisol support.

Dosing by the elimination of symptoms was done successfully for

decades before the TSH came into existence in 1973, and we are

repeating that success.

The free T3 being in the upper part of the range is SIMPLY ANOTHER

GUIDE (and we make sure that we do NOT take Armour before our labs,

which only results in a false high reading).

[This will probably be the hardest for me to attain. I know my next

TSH will be .0x, but I'll bet FT3 will NOT be at top of range, maybe

340/3.4 if I'm lucky. But then again, my cortisol might show low,

which is why I'm testing next month! Then I'll have to decide

whether to push further or not.]

Thanks for your input Sol.

Barb

sol wrote:

> Just my two cents, but I think symptoms are of the overriding

> importance. Lab results just don't tell

> the whole story. I believe all my saliva lab results to be accurate

> because the results fit my symptoms at the time, and they also

explained a lot of my past experience with supplements.

[Guest guest]

I agree, and that's why I'm getting saliva labs next month. I'm

basing " optimization " on this from sttm:

To find our optimal dose, we dose by three criteria in no particular

order:

1) the complete elimination of symptoms,

[cold hands disappeared at 1.5 grains; brain fog disappeared at 1.75

grains; cold feet disappeared at 2 grains and eyebrows started

filling in]

2) a mid-afternoon temp of 98.6, using a mercury thermometer or a

proven-accurate digital, and

[i hit 98.8 each month during my period]

3) a free T3 towards the top of the range, no matter how low it WILL

get the TSH. The three criteria have to be in conjunction with plenty

of cortisol, whether from healthy adrenals or cortisol support.

Dosing by the elimination of symptoms was done successfully for

decades before the TSH came into existence in 1973, and we are

repeating that success.

The free T3 being in the upper part of the range is SIMPLY ANOTHER

GUIDE (and we make sure that we do NOT take Armour before our labs,

which only results in a false high reading).

[This will probably be the hardest for me to attain. I know my next

TSH will be .0x, but I'll bet FT3 will NOT be at top of range, maybe

340/3.4 if I'm lucky. But then again, my cortisol might show low,

which is why I'm testing next month! Then I'll have to decide

whether to push further or not.]

Thanks for your input Sol.

Barb

sol wrote:

> Just my two cents, but I think symptoms are of the overriding

> importance. Lab results just don't tell

> the whole story. I believe all my saliva lab results to be accurate

> because the results fit my symptoms at the time, and they also

explained a lot of my past experience with supplements.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info for my wife's saliva testing.

I'm very interested in Val's response to your question about our labs

vs. temps. That's you and I split b/c my temps are still in lower 98s.

I turned out the light at 10:30, woke up at some point to go to the

bathroom and must have fallen back to sleep hard b/c I don't even

remember when it was, and woke up at around 6:30AM which is 1/2 hour

before my alarm goes off which I can live with no problem. I have,

however, been wiped out all day today but I'm attributing that to a

stressful four hour drive to my new doc through bad weather, seeing a

new doc (always anxiety inducing these days although this appt went

well), driving back 4 hours, and that it's been 4 days since my last

vitamin b-12 shot so I'm due. That also follows two days at work

where we traveled for a good part of the day all day. Hopefully I'll

be able to sleep as well tonight and nap some tomorrow. I'll report

back. The 200mg of mag/glycinate didn't do what too much mag does, so

I guess I might go up to 400mg of tonight too since that's the dose

but the pills are huge!

I still wake up with a headache which I attribute to going hypot

overnight so I've been thinking about splitting my Armour dose into 4

and adding that night-time dose like you do, but I'm still leary about

the stimulation of the T3. I ran through a lot of posts yesterday

evening so I missed it if Val answered you about how best to split

Armour for 4 doses.

>

> >if your labs are close to mine we're WAY below optimal as far as

> > thyroid hormone blood levels if we're shooting for top of the range

> > for T3 and 2/3 for T/4.

>

> Well see, that's where I question this one size fits all " optimum

> blood range. " And I think that's why Val always asks about temps and

> BP and other symptoms, because lab values aren't the end all, as

> shown by the dichotomy in some people's saliva and blood. If I

> already hit 98.8 on 1.75 grains, what would my temp be if I pushed

> for top of range T3? With a FT3 of 304, figure I'd have to add at

> LEAST another grain, don't you think? Any comments Val?

>

> > I'm trying the chromium and my new mag/glycinate tnite. Hopefully

> > I'll sleep like a baby but kind of doubting it.

>

> Please report back tomorrow. DH's moving his thyroid dose back from

> 10:30 to midnite tonight, to see if that helps with the waking. If

> not, tomorrow's Friday, so I might add another 1/8 grain to his

> bedtime dose and see how that works.

>

> Barb

>

[Guest guest]

" jasrich " wrote:

> I still wake up with a headache which I attribute to going hypot

> overnight so I've been thinking about splitting my Armour dose into 4

> and adding that night-time dose like you do, but I'm still leary about

> the stimulation of the T3. I ran through a lot of posts yesterday

> evening so I missed it if Val answered you about how best to split

> Armour for 4 doses.

Glad you got some sleep. DH is now waking around 6 with tremors, but

says he's not hungry. And that was after he creamed at 3 a.m., so not

sure what to do now. More cream? More food? More thyroid? Who

knows!?

Headaches can be caused by dehydration. Do you drink salt water at

night? Val didn't answer about splitting doses, but my latest research

shows TSH levels highest between 11 p.m. and 6 a.m., which means that's

when your body is calling for more thyroid. So knowing that, I was

going to bump DH's next breakfast and bedtime dose before the others.

I would split 1-7/8 as 1/2, 1/2, 1/2, 3/8. In fact that's how I was

dosing till just a week ago when I bumped to 2 grains. So NICE not to

have to cut any pills for once!

Barb

[Guest guest]

Barb wrote:

> (and we make sure that we do NOT take Armour before our labs,

> which only results in a false high reading).

>

>

Yeah, I'm living proof of that one! :-(

sol

[Guest guest]

No tremors for me when I wake up and not even sweaty, just can't get

back to sleep except that I have the past two nights after eating a

big snack of almond butter 1/2 hr before bed, using HC gel, and, last

night, 500mg of chromium and 200mg of mag/glycinate. I'm also still

taking the .5mg of klonopin that I want to wean off of, but too much

anxiety over health and job right now for that to be a good idea.

I don't drink salt water at night, even when I wake up to go the

bathroom and I'm parched b/c if I put anything in my stomach in the

middle of the night it awakens the hunger dragon. Maybe I could get

away with it now with the other things that I'm doing. I do drink a

glass with 1/2tsp first thing when I get up.

I would love to not have to split pills into 1/8s anymore so I am

really looking forward to that next 1/8 increase too for that reason

and others BTW, my temps have come up some since that last

increase and seem to be holding so far at around 98.3 - 98.4. New doc

wants me to hold here for another 1-2 weeks before attempting another

increase, but I'm going to watch temps and see how I feel. If hypot

symptoms come crashing back in and/or temps start sagging, I'm going up.

[Guest guest]

And that last dose is at bed-time right?

I would split 1-7/8 as 1/2, 1/2, 1/2, 3/8. In fact that's how I was

> dosing till just a week ago when I bumped to 2 grains. So NICE not to

> have to cut any pills for once!

>

> Barb

>

[Guest guest]

Right: breakfast, lunch, dinner, bedtime.

BTW, the fact that you slept better with the chromium and everyone

always mentions getting up around dawn makes me think this is somehow

related to the dawn rise of glucose. Found another webpage where

people mentioned things that helped: milk thistle at bedtime to help

your liver release the glucagon, apple with nuts because it digests

slowly (figured that one out myself!), and chromium. Since DH already

takes chromium with dinner, gonna add gymnema sylvestre (another

insulin helping herb). Also bumping him up another 1/8 grain tomorrow,

since Broda contends that hypoglycemia and diabetes are just

hypo symptoms.

This protocol is like a bad computer program with many glitches that

constantly needs debugging. Apply patch, run again, and it works for a

little while then crashes again. And as usual, tech support (docs) is

no help--it's user error LOL!

Barb

> I would split 1-7/8 as 1/2, 1/2, 1/2, 3/8. In fact that's how I was

> > dosing till just a week ago when I bumped to 2 grains. So NICE not

to

> > have to cut any pills for once!

> >

> > Barb

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Debugging is a good analogy.

Thanks,

This protocol is like a bad computer program with many glitches that

> constantly needs debugging. Apply patch, run again, and it works for a

> little while then crashes again. And as usual, tech support (docs) is

> no help--it's user error LOL!

>

> Barb

[Guest guest]

Debugging is a good analogy.

Thanks,

This protocol is like a bad computer program with many glitches that

> constantly needs debugging. Apply patch, run again, and it works for a

> little while then crashes again. And as usual, tech support (docs) is

> no help--it's user error LOL!

>

> Barb