FYI

[Guest guest]

****Larry-

Who wrote this?? When it states " I am located in Clearwater, FL ... "

sue in nj

In a message dated 7/13/01 1:19:56 PM, larryy@... writes:

<< Letters to the Editor:

Lyme Disease in the South

[infect Med 18(5):260, 2001. © 2001 Cliggott Publishing Co., Division of

SCP/Cliggott Communications, Inc.]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

Dr Jerome Goddard's column on Lyme disease in the South is very timely.[1}

All too often, physicians are led to believe that Lyme disease does not

occur in the South. I am located in Clearwater, Fla, and have treated many

patients for Lyme disease, a number of whom have acquired it in Florida.

In fact, the very second case of Lyme disease I ever saw, some 17 years ago,

was acquired in Clearwater. A 23-year-old waitress who had not traveled

outside the Tampa Bay area developed a flu-like illness with multiple

lesions characteristic of erythema migrans. Her symptoms were classic for

early Lyme disease even though at that time there had been no reports of

Lyme disease acquired in Florida. Nevertheless, I treated her with

doxycycline, and her symptoms disappeared and her rash cleared promptly.

Meanwhile, I had sent a sample of blood to Dr Steere's laboratory for

testing. The test came back with a positive IgM assay for Lyme disease. On

further questioning, the patient remembered having a " mole " on her shoulder

that she was thinking of going to the dermatologist about when it

disappeared. This was probably a tick that had attached to her while she was

gardening and had become engorged.

Subsequently, I have treated numerous individuals who have acquired their

Lyme disease in Florida -- some on the East Coast; some in northern Florida

(usually while hunting), Pinellas County, and Hillsborough County. Some of

these have had positive blood tests, others have had only positive urine

tests, and some have had negative blood and urine tests but have responded

completely to antibiotics.

Since the blood test is aimed only at Borrelia burgdorferi, it is possible

that some of the patients with negative tests had disease caused by Borrelia

garinii or Borrelia afzelii. However, I did have one patient, ill for 5

years with symptoms typical of Lyme disease, who had a negative Western blot

test result. One year after he was cured (off antibiotics and symptom-free),

I repeated the Western blot test, out of curiosity, and it was positive,

supporting the concept that sometimes the antibody is " imprisoned " by immune

complexes.

The Florida Department of Health has issued reports of patients meeting very

strict CDC criteria for Lyme disease who have acquired it in Florida as far

south as the Keys and Lee County. Although not numerous, such reports are

sufficient to counter the statement I have heard from many doctors that Lyme

disease is not acquired in Florida.

Reference

Goddard J. What's going on with Lyme disease in the South? Infect Med.

2001;18:132-133 >>

[Guest guest]

Sue,

Here's the web site: http://id.medscape.com/40258.rhtml?srcmp=id-071301

Larry NV

[Guest guest]

Dr. Duffy's response. Sandy

ALL INFORMATION, DATA, AND MATERIAL CONTAINED, PRESENTED, OR PROVIDED HERE

IS FOR GENERAL INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS

REFLECTING THE KNOWLEDGE OR OPINIONS OF THE PUBLISHER, AND IS NOT TO BE

CONSTRUED OR INTENDED AS PROVIDING MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION

WHETHER OR NOT TO VACCINATE IS AN IMPORTANT AND COMPLEX ISSUE AND SHOULD BE

MADE BY YOU, AND YOU ALONE, IN CONSULTATION WITH YOUR HEALTH CARE PROVIDER.

FYI

news24seven.tv:TALKBACK

[ Home | Contents | Search | Post | Reply | Next | Previous | Up ]

Re: EXTREMELY URGENT...PLEASE RESPOND

From: duffy@...

IntheNews: Health

Date: 8/21/01

Time: 12:45:03 AM

Remote Name: 206.65.190.134

Comments

My thirty years experience as a family doctor in the healing arts have

convinced me that the greatest threat to life and health in the 21st

century, is no longer atomic bombs and nuclear power. The greatest threat to

our health today is (by far)the medical community, and one of their most

dangerous tools is vaccination - particularly the horrific procedure of

injecting foreign protein into newborn infants! My thirty years of

experience was preceded by 21 years of military experience during which I

faithfully avoided every single vaccination after being subjected to the

initial vaccinations given to all new trainees in boot camp. During my 21

years of military life, during which I prepared myself for my final

occupation as a family doctor, I cultivated a very different opinion on the

subject of vaccines and my final conclusion is that there is no such thing

as a safe vaccine -the phrase is oxymoronic. One need not look too

diligently to have my assertion confirmed by men much greater than I. If one

fails to first consider that the most powerful vested interest in the world

is in our own individual belief system and then seek out the source of that

system, one does, in the case of modern medicine, completely miss the point.

Without even mentioning the fact that vaccination defies common sense and

the use of simple logic, allow me to state that vaccination is the single

greatest threat to human life and health today for three reasons: 1.

Vaccination was born in the superstitions of Egyptian antiquity 2. Vaccines

were given new life by the medieval medical quacks and drug peddling

entrepeneurs of the renaissance at a time when almost nothing was known of

the immune system. 3. Historical fact demonstrates that vaccination has

never cured, prevented or ameliorated a single disease. The evidence is now

(and has been for over a century)available to demonstrate that the plagues

of old were the results of sudden population explosions with diminished food

supplies. Sandler MD, proved beyond the question of a doubt that

the polio epidemics proved to be the result of overindulgence in adulterated

(high sugar) foods. The plagues of old were due to the lack of animal

protein, fresh fruit and vegetables. This resulted in lowered antibody

levels with the resultant overgrowth of organisms that thrive in such

absences. The rats, mice, fleas and bugs are still with us but the plagues

are a thing of the past. What we suffer now is a plague of a different

variety, far more dangerous than the plagues of old. Our present plague is

the existence of medically driven legislatures and governmental power under

the sway of medical " knowitallness " . The citizen had better wake up and

drive this medical demon out of their governing bodies now while peaceful

means to do so are still available. They certainly had better not allow

their critical voices to be stilled by the vested interests in their

legislatures! Dr H Duffy Sr Family doctor of chiropractic Geneva,

Ohio USA

[Guest guest]

FYI

Sandy,

I questioned the author of www.notmilk.com today and got a quick

answer from him which is worth sharing. Here is my response to his

response to my original letter to him this morning. It contains a critical

point of view that requires understanding.

DHD Sr

Mr Cohen,

Your points are all well taken, I'm really on your side.

However I thought you were unwittingly aiding the enemy

with this latest volley in which you included comments on

Anthrax and frankly, regardless of what Horowitz has to say

about the subject - I'm only interested in the facts, not educated

opinions (I haven't read what Horowitz has to say about viruses).

One example, every virus tested in the HIV situation differs from every

other virus.

Until you come to understand that a virus is nothing more than cell

poop you will never come to an understanding on that point.

Everything that lives, eats and poops. Body cells live, therefore they poop.

I call the poop of a cell, a virus, what do you call it? I.e., my opinion

is that all viruses are nothing more than cell poop - otherwise, from where

do they come? Out of thin air? They have to come from somewhere and it

doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where that somewhere is.

Viruses are simply the remains of cellular metabolism and/or breakdown. Just

as people who eat bad food have smelly BMs, body cells " defecate " strange

viruses, which are the " BMs " of the cell, " smelly " or " strange " in those

who eat poorly and have sick or underfunctioning cells.

The closest you come to the truth of the situation (although you still miss

the point), from your point of view, is when you say:

100 MILLION CASES OF DISEASE WERE TRANSMITTED FROM

]ANIMAL TO HUMAN LAST YEAR, INCLUDING SALMONELLA, E COLI 157,

LISTERIA, MYCOBACTERIUM PARATUBERCULOSIS, AND CAMPHLOBACTER.

YOU AND I DISAGREE.

The first question one must ask is, what was the source of this information?

The same people who are giving us the information on AIDS/HIV, vaccination,

water fluoridation etc etc? (grin)

These are not transmissions of infectious disease they are POISONINGS - this

can be compared with " catching " cholera from drinking dirty water. If you

drink poison, you get sick, if you drink water containing enough vibrio

cholera bacteria to overcome the natural acid barrier of the stomach and

gain entry into the small intestine, you will get sick. This is not an

" infectious disease " , it is a " poisoning " . Compare that with eating spoiled

meat. If you eat spoiled meat, you get sick. Now you can blame E. Coli for

that sickness caused by spoiled meat however, E. Coli is always present in

your intestinal tract! Why then are you not always poisoned suchly? On the

other hand you can correctly blame your illness (appropriately called food

poisoning) on the poisons generated by putrefied (rotten) protein. The way

meat rots determines its poisoning potential. There is a difference between

rotting and curing meat for example. It is this very subtle difference in

mechanisms involved in sicknesses and " infectious diseases " especially, that

fools everybody - experts included. Using the wrong point of view base upon

the germ theory of disease then gives " experts " the idea that they can

" discover " a vaccine to " protect " against a poisoning such as cholera!! Do

you really think, after this explanation, that someone could effectively

vaccinate against cholera?

And by the way, since you brought up the subject, not long ago a university

study (Science?) finally announced evidence that TB was actually a protein

deficiency disease. I knew that fifty years ago and didn't need a university

study to explain it to me. You would be astonished to know exactly what

infectious diseases, in fact, really exist!!

Keep up the good work with your milk info, perhaps it would be better to

leave the rest alone because of your wide influence - you are in danger of

falling under the law of seven (chuckle) and you WILL misinform on that and

other subjects if you begin to branch out, especially if you hold to your

present views.

Keep in mind Duffy's Law, " most people are wrong about most things most of

the time " . Accept that, live with it, it's a fact. (chuckle) Also, don't

lose your sense of humor, it's sometimes hard to maintain in the type of

battle that people like you and I wage.

DHD Sr

NOTMILK - PREPARE TO MEAT YOUR MAKER

In my opinion, based upon 30 years of clinical experience, you are

unwittingly supporting the tax-supported medical quacks in our governmental

bureacracies (NIH, CDC, FDA, FTC etc.) who, today, represent the most

serious threat to the public health and to human survival in all recorded

history - including those dangers from famines, floods, plagues and wars.

HOW SO?

Mr Cohen, when you support the establishment position on ANY disease process

or encourage ANY government supported " scientific research " you are

unwittingly giving aid and comfort to the enemy of the people.

GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF HOW I SUPPORT

GOVERNMENT SUPPORTED SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH

PLEASE.

You need to seriously consider your positions on all of your beliefs

concerning sickness, health, degenerative disease and the applications of

crisis medicine, and separate them from all bureaucratic, socialist

activities.

I CONSIDER MY LEANINGS TO BE CAPITALIST IN NATURE.

According to my experience and knowledge, there is not one single disease of

an animal that is transmissable to man under any normal circumstance,

including rabies.

HAVING NEVER EXPERIENCED ANTHRAX, FIRST HAND,

I CANNOT DISAGREE WITH YOUR PREMISE. ALL THAT

I KNOW ABOUT ANTHRAX, I'VE LEARNED DURING THE

COURSE OF A LIFETIME OF READING AND STUDY.

This does not mean that one cannot take material from animals, inject it

into a human and make that human sick.

I REFER YOU TO LEONARD HOROWITZ'S WORK:

" EMERGING VIRUSES. "

The injection of foreign protein into

any living organism has measurable effect but has nothing to do with the

transmission of disease except in the minds of medically trained

" knowitalls " who are seriously handicapped by a lack of common sense and

intelligence, overburderned by overeducated intellects, and driven by

financial needs of the drug and chemical industries.

100 MILLION CASES OF DISEASE WERE TRANSMITTED FROM

]ANIMAL TO HUMAN LAST YEAR, INCLUDING SALMONELLA, E COLI 157,

LISTERIA, MYCOBACTERIUM PARATUBERCULOSIS, AND CAMPHLOBACTER.

YOU AND I DISAGREE.

The junk-science based tax-supported governmental bureacracies are presently

destroying a large part of the wealth of the farming communities all over

the world and you are helping them to do it.

SUBSIDIES ARE WHAT DESTROY THE FARMING COMMUNITY.

THAT IS UN-AMERICAN.

Cohen

[Guest guest]

Dattwyler's Prevue test is not news. This info is 2 years old. So,

he is basically advertising a test that is no better than the other

tests that CDC is using, and furthermore, every time someone uses the

Prevue test, it puts money in Dattwyler's pocket. Two good reasons

not to use it.

[Guest guest]

FYI

This info should be read by all the " virus happy " people you come into

contact with. The deeper one digs, the closer one comes to the understanding

that the virus is simply " cell poop " or " cellular debris " whichever

definition suits you, a commonsensical fact arising out of commonsensical

observations.

DHD Sr

A Fusocellular Sarcoma

Produced by Indol

And Transmissable By A Filtrate

by is Carrel (Rockefeller Institute)

One chicken received into the right pectoral muscle, 4 cc of chicken embryo

containing approximately 1 part per 1,000 indol and into the left pectoral

muscle the same quantity of embryo pulp containing 1 part per 1,250 to 1

part per 5,000 indol. We repeated this last injection into two other

chickens. A fourth chicken received in each pectoral 4 cc of embryo pulp and

indol at concentrations of 1 part per 2,000 and of 1 part per 20,000. In the

case of the second and the third chickens, tumours rapidly appeared, which

invaded, within two months, the lateral side of the thorax. The two animals

died during the summer at a time when autopsies could not be made. Regarding

the fourth chicken, she showed two tumours, one, average, corresponding to

the injection of indol at 1 part per 2,000, and the other, immense,

corresponding to the solution of a greater concentration. The first tumour

receded fairly soon, while the second attained in 3 months a considerable

volume. She was composed mostly of cysts, bone, and cartilage. The animal

remained healthy.

The history of the first chicken is more interesting. The right side in no

way developed any tumour. The left side, it was soon perceived a tumour

which attained rapidly a length of 11 cm and a width of 9 cm, and a

thickness of 5 cm, approximately. Within 26 days, the chicken was dying. The

thoraxic wall was infiltrated with a fragile tissue resembling the Rous

sarcoma. We found the metastases in the lungs, the spleen, the liver, and

the peritoneum. We examined a section which resembled a sarcoma tumour. The

fragments of this sarcoma were several times cultivated in flask D5. They

were rapidly surrounded by short-lived amoeboid cells. Subsequently the

fibroblasts emigrated into the coagulant. Zones of digestion were produced

and the culture assumed an appearance characteristic of the Rous sarcoma, by

tar and by arsenic.

The tumour propagates easily by transplantation. From June to October, the

sarcoma underwent 12 passages in 54 chickens which except for the two most

recent, died carrying voluminous tumours. We autopsied only 30 of the

chickens. All of the animals, except two, presented the metastases in the

lungs, the liver, and the spleen, and sometimes in all three organs

simultaneously. The animals did not survive a long time after

transplantation. The first tumour, which killed the animal in 26 days, was

inoculated in 3 chickens which died in 9 days, 7 days, and 3 days,

respectively. The average survival period was therefore 6.3 days. The

average survival period for the chickens which received the tumour in their

second passage was 12.2 days. During the 3rd passage, the survival period

attained was 14 days and during the 8th passage, 15 days. Though the tumour

was still very malignant, it did not recover the activity which was

presented at the first passage.

We subsequently researched the tumour's capability to be transmitted by a

filtrate. An aqueous extract of the first tumour was filtered through a

Berkfeld filter and inoculated into 3 chickens which attained large tumours

of the thoraxic wall (peritoneum) and died within 24 and 30 days with

metastases of the lungs, the spleen, the liver, and the heart. This

experiment was repeated with one of the tumours of the first passage. 5

(sic) inoculated chickens survived 13 days, 26 days, 22 days, and 19 days,

respectively, after inoculation, and the autopsy revealed the presence of

large localized tumours and metastases of the lung, the liver, and the

heart. The extract filtrate, of one of the sarcomas of the 3rd passage,

injected into only one chicken, produced a large tumour and metastases in

the liver and the spleen. The chicken died within 25 days. Whereas the

extract filtrate of the sarcoma always determined the appearance of the

malignant tumour in the chickens, it was not possible to produce in vitro

the transformation of the normal monocytes into sarcoma cells, and it was

not possible to multiply them in the milieu of the culture. The failure of

these experiments does not, to the present, prove that the filtrate is

incapable of determining in vitro the transformation of leucocytes into

sarcoma cells. The experiments are still too small a number and must be

repeated for us to know whether the sarcomas of indol differ on this point

from other sarcomas of chemical origin. We need to stress that in one case,

Ebeling inoculated a centrifuged extract (not filtered) of a sarcoma of

indol into a culture of leucocytes, and thusly the malignant transformation

was produced.

It is interesting to note that indol, a substance existing in normal

organisms and also produced by microbes, is capable of determining, in

certain conditions, the malignant transformation of normal tissues. We can

then consider that because of this substance and analogue substances, a

sarcoma could as well appear spontaneously in organisms, as they can as well

be engendered by parasites or various microorganisms. This fact establishes

a precise relationship between the parasite and chemical theories of the

origin of tumours. The transmission of this sarcome by a filtrant agent is

supportive of the hypothesis which I have noted previously (1). It is

reasonable that the production of the Rous virus and the fusocellular

sarcoma in the tissues of the chicken constitute the only response that can

be made by these tissues to substances as different as arsenic and indol,

just as common inflammation is a unique reaction of organisms to

heterogenous agents such as silicate soda, staphylococci bacteria, and

turpentine.

(Laboratories of The Rockefeller Institute, New-York.)

(1) A. Carrel., " The Principle Filtrant Of Chicken Sarcomas Produced By

Arsenic " C. R. de la Soc. de biol., 1925, t. XCIII.

HARPUB Commentary

It is apparently not well known even by modern day experts in the sarcoma

field that Carrel had demonstrated that the classical laboratory proof for

virus causality (for disease) also works for poisoned subjects. It appears

that this experiment inherently questions the pathological view of viruses.

Hence, a theory of toxin adaption by subjects could be developed. Its seems

very possible that even a theory that embraces the concept of symbiotic

bonding of subjects to toxins could be developed.

Disease definitions which include symbiosis become stronger in view of

Carrel and Fischer's apparently overlooked experiments. If the HARPUB

interpretation of Carrel is not mistaken then the germ theory view of

viruses as predatory, disease-causing entities is further weakened and is

therefore valid only as an effective media device to demand public support,

obeisance, and funding, for research, profitable vaccination schemes,

avoidance of industrial culpability, and the achievement of political or

military objectives.

Current Orthodox Laboratory Proof For Virus Causality

Juxtaposed Against Experiments From 1925-1926

While Assuming, In Both Cases, Toxic Causality For Disease As Valid

A. Carrel (1925) and A. Fischer (1926)

Official Viropathology

Experiment begins. Obtain a healthy subject.

A healthy subject exists.

Poison subject with injection of dilute solution of arsenic or indol.

Subject is poisoned, knowingly or unknowingly, with pesticides,

arsenic, antibiotics, hormones, error, etc.

Disease appears.

Disease appears. Toxicology is ignored and avoided.

Experiment begins. Obtain the diseased subject.

Extract fluid from diseased tissue. Filter the fluid through a

virus-size Berkfeld filter.

Extract fluid from diseased tissue. Filter the fluid through a

virus-size filter (Berkfeld filter).

Obtain a healthy subject.

Obtain a healthy subject.

Inject filtrate into healthy subject.

Inject filtrate into healthy subject.

Disease appears.

Disease appears.

Repeat with, " Extract fluid from... " (above)

Repeat with, " Extract fluid from... " (above)

Conclusion (Carrel): The sarcoma is an example of a unique tissue

response to a variety of substances. An agent, not a virus, originating from

the cell causes the continued transmission of the disease.

Conclusion: Viruses cause disease.

HARPUB Conclusion: Toxins, radiation, or stress usually are the cause

of disease. These trigger the cellular SOS Response in which accellerated

genetic recombination and attendant viral activity are normal. Tumors

normally are organ augmentations and detox/metabolism centers. Malignancy

occurs when the initial toxic trauma is very high or the subject's

susceptibility to toxins is very high. Injection is an artificial and

extreme event, which does not occur in normal circumstances. Injection can

occur in clinical settings such as in a laboratory. Injection of high

quantities of virus provide the context of toxicity and the capability of an

inflammatory response, which in the case of naive tissue can result in

over-response. Experienced injected tissue is said to be " immune " .

Only by including toxicology in disease analysis could there exist a

possibility for refutation of the implications of this chart -- and this is

not likely to be embraced by orthodoxy. Studies on the epidemiology of

toxins are nearly impossible because it is illegal for the U.S. government

to disseminate pesticide production figures. Shipping documents are allowed

to be vague, governments protect the pesticide industry (PANNA (1998)),

studies are notoriously corrupt and biased regarding industrial culpability,

and funding is lacking (Fagan and Lavelle, Toxic Deception (1996)).

The table above, can be represented graphically:

This chart is based upon inferences garnered from the work of Carrel et al,

yet the fundamental concepts are identical to Dr. Scobey's Chart #1.

We thus have additional context to contribute to a thesis regarding the

omissions of toxicology from disease investigations by Modern Medicine.

Duesberg has noted several of these omissions, such as the Congressional

critique of the CDC's handling of Legionairre's disease, its investigations

into AIDS, and the Japanese medical industry's investigations into SMON.

When Duesberg communicated the thesis that AIDS had a toxic cause he lost

his research grants. Attempts were made to have him fired from his tenured

professorship. Nevertheless, it is of piqued interest that Duesberg's well

established reputation rests upon his being the first to discover the RSV

cancer gene.

These issues relate to virus definitions of polio and toxin/virus

relationships. Dr. Scobey's " Is Human Poliomyelitis Caused By Exogenous

Virus? " and " The Poison Cause of Poliomyelitis And Obstructions To Its

Investigation " .

[Guest guest]

fyi

Sandy,

If a person does not know how the AIDS myth was originally

generated they can never come to terms with the fact that it

is a myth. There is simply too much paperwork on the subject.

Likewise, if you do not understand cause-effect in disease

processes, you can never come to understand that germs

do not cause disease except under very unusual conditions

(usually artificial lab conditions or outrageous living conditions

such as people drinking enough dirty water full of vibrio cholera

to overcome their acid barrier).

So it is difficult for those people to understand that what is happening

is not an " infection " as people know it but a " poisoning " .

To get to the bottom line means coming to terms with the fact

that effects of poisoning were shifted from poisons as the cause,

to organisms as the cause in order to facilitate the growth of the

medical industry.

If an organism caused the illnesse, a great industry was

possible to protect the public against the organism.

If a poison is the cause, where is the glamour and the mystery

(the mighty search for the organism) and the money??

It is plain that poisons can be identified and eliminated, problem

solved, but with organisms, there is no end, they are everywhere,

always have been everywhere and always will be everywhere.

Plus different medications, vaccines etc are possible if it is an

organism rather than a poison.

A good reading of the harpub site should help your understanding on

that score.

There are still a lot of people around who have known about this stuff

for the last fifty years and more. Anyonewho has seriously studied the

problem without being exposed to the medical brainwashing first sees

it immediately for what it is. I know of a lot of good doctors who still

cannot " see " the truth of the situtation.

Like AK is to many chiropractors, the poison cause, rather than the organism

cause of disease is, to them, an incommensurable paradigm.

DHD Sr

[Guest guest]

Hi SJ

Hope you had a good trip.

[ ] FYI

I'm home in Eugene, OR, safe and as sound as I can be, all things considered. I'll write more later but I wanted yall to know that I made it cross country . . . we arrived last night. The only thing worse than packing is unpacking . . . LOL . . . today we rest. Ciao for now. I hope all is well with you! Always, SJ

[Guest guest]

I still prefer unpacking. At least once it's there you

can take your time settling everything into its proper

place. The hard part is finding that ONE item that you

want right now.... Welcome back and take your

time getting unpacked. -dz-

--- EssJayinOR@... wrote:

> I'm home in Eugene, OR, safe and as sound as I can

> be, all things considered.

> I'll write more later but I wanted yall to know that

> I made it cross country

> . . . we arrived last night. The only thing worse

> than packing is unpacking .

> . . LOL . . . today we rest. Ciao for now. I hope

> all is well with you!

>

> Always,

> SJ

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Dr. Duffy, We will just have to agree to disagree about this. I do not

think anyone will listen to us if we act as if research is meaningless or

that we are uninterested in it. We need to learn to make the research work

in our favor, and I believe that properly done research would show the

vaccines for what they are. (Never mind that most of it is poorly

conducted at this time - of course it is. That is one thing that must

change.)

Sandy

Re: FYI

there you go putting those two words together again (sigh)

you've been sucked in and don't even realize it. That is the

nature of propaganda that corrupts language, like the guy

said, mind corrupts language, language corrupts mind.

I'm sorry dear, you are very wrong, the last thing that any type

of research concerned with vaccines needs, is a " shot in the arm. "

Until one comes to the realization that about 80% of what you hear

and read in the health field is plain bullshit, about ten per cent of it

is downright foolish, about four per cent unfathomable and about one

per cent usable. Usable meaning, something you can take away and

DO something with.

DHD Sr.

FYI

" Vaccine safety research needs shot in the arm " , Anchorage Daily News,

October 3, 2000

There is no such thing as vaccine safety, all vaccines are deadly

and should be outlawed.

Dr H Duffy Sr

Geneva, Ohio

[Guest guest]

I agree with Dr. Duffy on this one ;-)

Outlaw them and there is no need for research. ;-)

We will NEVER get proper research anyway. Its like saying there is a

'safe vaccine' - not possible.

Like saying there is a 'nuclear weapon' - not possible

And more research on vaccines will only damage more children who are

involved in the research

Shri

>

> There is no such thing as vaccine safety, all vaccines are deadly

> and should be outlawed.

At 07:55 AM 10/25/2001 -0800, Sandy Mintz wrote:

>Dr. Duffy, We will just have to agree to disagree about this. I do not

>think anyone will listen to us if we act as if research is meaningless or

>that we are uninterested in it. We need to learn to make the research work

>in our favor, and I believe that properly done research would show the

>vaccines for what they are. (Never mind that most of it is poorly

>conducted at this time - of course it is. That is one thing that must

>change.)

>

>Sandy

>

> Re: FYI

>

>

> there you go putting those two words together again (sigh)

> you've been sucked in and don't even realize it. That is the

> nature of propaganda that corrupts language, like the guy

> said, mind corrupts language, language corrupts mind.

> I'm sorry dear, you are very wrong, the last thing that any type

> of research concerned with vaccines needs, is a " shot in the arm. "

> Until one comes to the realization that about 80% of what you hear

> and read in the health field is plain bullshit, about ten per cent of it

> is downright foolish, about four per cent unfathomable and about one

> per cent usable. Usable meaning, something you can take away and

> DO something with.

> DHD Sr.

>

> FYI

>

>

> " Vaccine safety research needs shot in the arm " , Anchorage Daily News,

> October 3, 2000

>

> There is no such thing as vaccine safety, all vaccines are deadly

> and should be outlawed.

> Dr H Duffy Sr

> Geneva, Ohio

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, whose children should be experimented on? Those callign for research

should have their OWN children experimented on.

mom of child who was part of the vaccine 'experiment'

At 06:37 PM 10/25/01 +0100, you wrote:

>I agree with Dr. Duffy on this one ;-)

>Outlaw them and there is no need for research. ;-)

>We will NEVER get proper research anyway. Its like saying there is a

>'safe vaccine' - not possible.

>Like saying there is a 'nuclear weapon' - not possible

>

>And more research on vaccines will only damage more children who are

>involved in the research

>Shri

>

>>

>> There is no such thing as vaccine safety, all vaccines are deadly

>> and should be outlawed.

>

>At 07:55 AM 10/25/2001 -0800, Sandy Mintz wrote:

>>Dr. Duffy, We will just have to agree to disagree about this. I do not

>>think anyone will listen to us if we act as if research is meaningless or

>>that we are uninterested in it. We need to learn to make the research work

>>in our favor, and I believe that properly done research would show the

>>vaccines for what they are. (Never mind that most of it is poorly

>>conducted at this time - of course it is. That is one thing that must

>>change.)

>>

>>Sandy

>>

>> Re: FYI

>>

>>

>> there you go putting those two words together again (sigh)

>> you've been sucked in and don't even realize it. That is the

>> nature of propaganda that corrupts language, like the guy

>> said, mind corrupts language, language corrupts mind.

>> I'm sorry dear, you are very wrong, the last thing that any type

>> of research concerned with vaccines needs, is a " shot in the arm. "

>> Until one comes to the realization that about 80% of what you hear

>> and read in the health field is plain bullshit, about ten per cent of it

>> is downright foolish, about four per cent unfathomable and about one

>> per cent usable. Usable meaning, something you can take away and

>> DO something with.

>> DHD Sr.

>>

>> FYI

>>

>>

>> " Vaccine safety research needs shot in the arm " , Anchorage Daily News,

>> October 3, 2000

>>

>> There is no such thing as vaccine safety, all vaccines are deadly

>> and should be outlawed.

>> Dr H Duffy Sr

>> Geneva, Ohio

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

They don't need to be experimental studies - they could use and compare

those currently being vaccinated to those who have never been vaccinated.

If they guaranteed life-long protection from any kind of harassment, parents

might be willing to include their children in such studies.

Sandy from Alaska

ALL INFORMATION, DATA, AND MATERIAL CONTAINED, PRESENTED, OR PROVIDED HERE

IS FOR GENERAL INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS

REFLECTING THE KNOWLEDGE OR OPINIONS OF THE PUBLISHER, AND IS NOT TO BE

CONSTRUED OR INTENDED AS PROVIDING MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION

WHETHER OR NOT TO VACCINATE IS AN IMPORTANT AND COMPLEX ISSUE AND SHOULD BE

MADE BY YOU, AND YOU ALONE, IN CONSULTATION WITH YOUR HEALTH CARE PROVIDER.

Yes, whose children should be experimented on? Those callign for research

should have their OWN children experimented on.

mom of child who was part of the vaccine 'experiment'

[Guest guest]

That is the problem, I know, but it is something that needs to be solved. I

still think the insurance companies might be lured into this because they

are the ones paying for all the chronic disease. Maybe not, since they

charge enough to cover it, but perhaps they would realize they could charge

less but make more, and everyone would be happy.

And if the government ever got away from promoting vaccination, and started

seeing its role as really protecting the public (not their unethical notion

of " public health " ), they could fund the studies again in a way that we

might be able to trust.

Sandy

Re: FYI

practically all of the research is done by the establishment.

Who else has the money or the need?

RE: FYI

Dr. Duffy, We will just have to agree to disagree about this. I do not

think anyone will listen to us if we act as if research is meaningless or

that we are uninterested in it. We need to learn to make the research work

in our favor, and I believe that properly done research would show the

vaccines for what they are. (Never mind that most of it is poorly

conducted at this time - of course it is. That is one thing that must

change.)

Sandy

[Guest guest]

Re: FYI

there you go putting those two words together again (sigh)

you've been sucked in and don't even realize it. That is the

nature of propaganda that corrupts language, like the guy

said, mind corrupts language, language corrupts mind.

I'm sorry dear, you are very wrong, the last thing that any type

of research concerned with vaccines needs, is a " shot in the arm. "

Until one comes to the realization that about 80% of what you hear

and read in the health field is plain bullshit, about ten per cent of it

is downright foolish, about four per cent unfathomable and about one

per cent usable. Usable meaning, something you can take away and

DO something with.

DHD Sr.

FYI

" Vaccine safety research needs shot in the arm " , Anchorage Daily

News,

October 3, 2000

There is no such thing as vaccine safety, all vaccines are deadly

and should be outlawed.

Dr H Duffy Sr

Geneva, Ohio

[Guest guest]

Sheri, You may be right, but I guess I believe in doing both. (Can't shake

that research background I have.)

Sandy

RE: RE: FYI

At 10:16 AM 10/25/2001 -0800, you wrote:

>They don't need to be experimental studies - they could use and compare

>those currently being vaccinated to those who have never been vaccinated.

>If they guaranteed life-long protection from any kind of harassment,

parents

>might be willing to include their children in such studies.

>

>Sandy from Alaska

Ideally that would be wonderful.

But in reality - lifetime protection - right!

Sorry, kiddo, I wish it could be true, but the only answer is to continue

to teach and teach and teach til our fingers drop off and our tongues fall

out until everyone is aware of the dangers. Cuz no one is going to let the

above happen.

Sheri

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@...

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

PO Box 1563 Nevada City CA 95959 530-740-0561 Voicemail in US

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin

International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers

Education, Homeopathic Education

CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters

[Guest guest]

At 10:16 AM 10/25/2001 -0800, you wrote:

>They don't need to be experimental studies - they could use and compare

>those currently being vaccinated to those who have never been vaccinated.

>If they guaranteed life-long protection from any kind of harassment, parents

>might be willing to include their children in such studies.

>

>Sandy from Alaska

Ideally that would be wonderful.

But in reality - lifetime protection - right!

Sorry, kiddo, I wish it could be true, but the only answer is to continue

to teach and teach and teach til our fingers drop off and our tongues fall

out until everyone is aware of the dangers. Cuz no one is going to let the

above happen.

Sheri

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@...

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

PO Box 1563 Nevada City CA 95959 530-740-0561 Voicemail in US

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin

International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers

Education, Homeopathic Education

CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters

[Guest guest]

Dr. Duffy, I don't doubt that you may be right, however, I just don't think

the insurance companies are going anywhere, and I don't want to waste my

breath trying to get them to go. Instead I try to find ways to work around

the things I cannot change.

If they continued to charge high prices, but paid for good studies which

proved vaccines do harm, and then charged those who vaccinate more for doing

so - I don't have a problem with it. Things would turn around fairly

quickly, however, if that happened.

Perhaps there is a flaw in my logic, but I think it is an interesting idea.

Sandy

Re: FYI

Most people have the wrong slant on insurance companies.

This might surprise you but insurance companies want sky

high prices, not low prices, insurance companies are not there

to pay insurance claims, that is not what they are in business for.

They are in business to NOT pay insurance claims.

If prices are sky high people have to buy insurance to protect themselves

against the possibility of being tapped out of their life savings from an

accident or sickness.

IF HEALTH CARE PRICES WERE NOT SKY HIGH PEOPLE WOULD NOT

BUY INSURANCE POLICIES. THE PRICES HAVE TO BE KEPT SKY HIGH

TO KEEP THE INSURANCE COMPANIES IN BUSINESS.

The moment health is insured there is an immediate total demand for

every single service the insurance company covers for everyone with a

policy. Price follows demand. Insurance creates infinite demand, price

becomes sky high, simple math.

Health insurance was the greatest societal evil ever created. The ONLY

cure of the problem under our present governmental control system is to

outlaw any contact between doctor and insurance company. If the government

was not subsidizing medicine with tax money, the free market would take

care

of the situation quickly. People paying out of their own pockets would

solve the

high cost problem. There, you have a good lesson in economics 101.

DHD SR

[Guest guest]

Re: FYI

true..........

FYI

" Vaccine safety research needs shot in the arm " , Anchorage Daily

News,

October 3, 2000

There is no such thing as vaccine safety, all vaccines are deadly

and should be outlawed.

Dr H Duffy Sr

Geneva, Ohio

[Guest guest]

:) :)

FYI

Sandy,

I just read the full Moyed article. It is obvious that Moyed

has never read a critical review of vaccination and has

absolutely no knowledge of its disastrous effects. My guess

is that he is a regular flu shot taker and that is probably what

caused his bout of kidney trouble he mentioned at the opening

of his article. (i.e., mercury poisoning)

Moyed's connection of Bates to the Anthrax business

has nothing to do with the issue at hand for Bates. The Bates

issue has nothing to do with Anthrax. It is about the right

of a citizen to refuse an unwanted invasion of his most private

property (his body) by another person, for any reason, under

any condition. Much less an unwanted medical invasion. Did we

not solve that question at the Nuremberg trials for God's sake? It

is Moyed's type of stupid journalism that has helped to put this

country in the degenerative position it's in today. Journalists

take on one of the gravest of public responsibilities, to report the facts

to the citizenry so that each individual can make a proper decision

on each of the issues. Moyed fails miserably in this respect. He is

the classical " useful idiot' as described by Leonard E Read.

Keep smiling,

DHD Sr

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/5/01 11:49:41 AM, larryy@... writes:

<< Cytokine Overproduction May Be Key to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- >>

Gee, these two articles sure do sound alot like borrelia bacteria, or lyme,

could be involved. What is causing the overproduction of cytokines???????

something must be triggering this......hmmmm.

sue in nj

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/5/01 11:49:41 AM, larryy@... writes:

<< Cytokine Overproduction May Be Key to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- >>

Gee, these two articles sure do sound alot like borrelia bacteria, or lyme,

could be involved. What is causing the overproduction of cytokines???????

something must be triggering this......hmmmm.

sue in nj

[Guest guest]

Thanks for posting this, Larry. It will be amazing if Durland Fish

ends up helping us, for a change.

[Guest guest]

Food for thought. (I know it wasn't even funny the first time, whenver that

was.)

FYI

LIFE EXPECTANCIES OF MEATEATERS COMPARED

TO VEGETARIANS SURPRISE MOST PEOPLE!!:

(Am J Epidemiol 1973, 97:372)

This is in response to the notmilk.com influence on the choice of

vegetarian vs meat diet.

In order to maintain a balance and make sure people get both sides

of the discussion on the meat vs vegie diet, the following is submitted.

Male meateaters live longer than vegetarian males!

the meateaters live longer by - 0.93% vs .89%

Female vegetarians comparative life expectancy is worse, significantly

worse!!

female MEATeaters outlive their vegetarian sisters by an astonishing

0.86% to 0.54%!!

Of course, this is to be expected when one considers the needs of the

female in constructing new babies and the chemistry of vital animal

protein that provides cells very much like our own compared to plant

cells which have almost no similarity to our own cells. Plant protein is

greatly inferior to animal protein as a source of vital needs. E.G., our

bodies can convert any mammalian liver cell to our own liver cells quite

easily, no plant has that capability.

We have a " post office " in our mouth and when we chew on a piece of

beef liver, that liver gets tagged with an address and lo and behold,

when checked via radioactivity, the digested remains appear clustered

around our own liver. This is the reason that ancients said, " eat the eye

of the eagle and the heart of the lion " , they knew something about that

long ago, albeit intuitively.

Once one begins to treat animals as humans, much error follows. Animals

do not have " rights " , " groups " of humans don't even have " rights " , (e.g.,

gay rights - gays don't have any more rights than heterosexuals) only

" individual " sentient human beings have " rights " - each animal has the

" right " to provide food for whatever other animal feeds on it in the food

chain.

Everything on this planet eats something and is eaten by something. It's a

cruel world. Even humans are eventually " eaten " by mother earth, " dust to

dust " as the saying goes.

Acts of cruelty and the wilful cause of unnecessary suffering of any animal

is something else and should not be confused with activities in the food

chain.

Not too long ago even the 25 year editor of the vegetarian times finally

gave up and went back to meat eating!!

Bottom line, nothing wrong with vegetarianism - you can live for a long long

time doing that - but you better do it right, and I haven't met anyone yet

who does it right - number one consideration, you better not be eating ANY

cooked food. EVERYTHING you eat had better be raw, in as wide a variety as

possible, and it had better be grown on fertile soil or you're not going to

get all of

your necessary nuts and bolts. If you think you can do that out of a modern

supermarket, " you're whistling dixie " .

Number two consideration, there is an essential protein and an essential

fat, but there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate - and if you

look

around you will find that the old " carbohydrate loading " nonsense is just

now

beginning to be looked at again, and here and there, some athletes are

loading up on animal fat andprotein - doing what I have been preaching for

thirty years, because I was lucky enough to stumble across the teachings of

V. Stefansson, an arctic explorerer.

I can guarantee you that the athletes I have influenced, who paid attention

and followed the high fat high protein diet have been outperforming their

carbohydrate loading competitors who run out of gas a lot faster burning

sugar. ( I can just see the gaping mouths hung open in disbelief, duhhhhh!)

(grin)

As it turns out, we can live on animal flesh without any plant food. The

eskimos

and others have proved that for as long as they have been on the planet.

Final consideration, the lion will NEVER lie with the lamb.

Utopia is a pipe dream.

Has anyone EVER considered what a bore that would be?

Dr H Duffy Sr

Geneva, Ohio

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/1/2001 11:07:02 AM Eastern Standard Time,

larryy@... writes:

> Dr. Smieja's group notes that these results are comparable to those observed

> when the effects of other antibiotics - ciprofloxacin or lymecycline - were

> evaluated

What the heck is " LYMECYCLINE " ?

never heard of it