well behaved cows

[Guest guest]

--- In @y..., " dkemnitz2000 " <dkemnitz2000@y...>

wrote:

> Hi Chi:

> Do you know where the feeding tests can be obtained?

> Wouldn't it be good to do proximate analyses before

> the feeding tests? The feeding tests are probably expensive.

Hi Dennis:

As far as where feeding tests can be obtained, universities are

always looking for funding, so that if you fund them they will tend

to do whatever you want. Children could show the adults how to do it

by doing a feeding experiment with test animals for a school science

project. They will probably be delt with less severely if they

produce evidence contrary to what their teachers teach them. Anyone

can buy pet rodents and conduct a small scale test. Perhaps a farmer

raising animals for profit would be interested in conducting a

feeding experiment to better nourish his animals to reduce his

veterinary bill.

Certainly, doing some analyses before the feeding test would make

sense so that money isn't wasted on an " expensive " feeding test. With

respect to butter, if you were comparing a pasteurized white butter

from a grain fed holstein with a raw yellow butter from a grass fed

Canadienne you might want to see if there is any difference in the

vitamin A content and in the anti-rachitic factor measured by Yoder's

chemical test published in the Journal of Biology in Oct. 1926. If

there is no differnece in these two factors, you probably would not

want to proceed with the feeding experiment. On the other hand, if

there is a difference, you probably would want to proceed with the

experiment and see if these factors make any difference in the health

of the test animals, over several generations, if possible.

Chi

[Guest guest]

> With only two cows and a bull he must have done a

> lot of inbreeding. I wonder just how good that was.

Hi Belinda:

On low soil fertility, inbreeding will cause problems. On high soil

fertily, inbreeding should be no problem. Genetic defects should

multiply on low soil fertility, faster if there is inbreeding.

Genetic defects should be corrected on high soil fertility, and

inbreeding should be no problem.

> Why would the milk from this particular breed be any

> better than another on the same grazing? I understand that

> the cream amounts might be different but if, as you've

> pointed out before, the product is only as good as the soil,

> how could one breed be better.

The milk from this particular breed would be better than any breed

that has been bred over the last 60 years or so to produce more milk.

In the 1930's when all breeds had not been bred for the high levels

of milk they produce now, I doubt that the breed would have mattered

much. Price points out that you can't tell the nutritional value of

milk by its cream content. You are right, the product is only as good

as the soil. But suppose on the same soil you have two cows, with one

producing twice as much as the other on the same soil. Do you suppose

that the nutritional value of the milk will be the same for each cow?

If so, then let's just go for volume.

> Goats are now being bred to produce more milk as well. I am

> breeding meat goats to make bigger goats an more meat.

> Is this also to be condemned?

Absolutely.

From Volume III of " The Albrecht Papers " :

" This country of apparent agricultural abundance is actually in a

critical postion so far as the production of quality, protein-rich

foods is concerned. We are producing bulk, not quality, and we are

paying for it in our own health as well as the health of our plants

and animals. We have succumbed to the idea that agriculture can be

made an industrial procedure. But the truth is, it is a biological

procedure. "

Chi

[Guest guest]

> > Hi Chi:

> > Do you know where the feeding tests can be obtained?

> > Wouldn't it be good to do proximate analyses before

> > the feeding tests? The feeding tests are probably expensive.

>

> Hi Dennis:

> As far as where feeding tests can be obtained, universities are

> always looking for funding, so that if you fund them they will tend

> to do whatever you want. Children could show the adults how to do

it

> by doing a feeding experiment with test animals for a school

science

> project. They will probably be delt with less severely if they

> produce evidence contrary to what their teachers teach them. Anyone

> can buy pet rodents and conduct a small scale test. Perhaps a

farmer

> raising animals for profit would be interested in conducting a

> feeding experiment to better nourish his animals to reduce his

> veterinary bill.

> Certainly, doing some analyses before the feeding test would make

> sense so that money isn't wasted on an " expensive " feeding test.

With

> respect to butter, if you were comparing a pasteurized white butter

> from a grain fed holstein with a raw yellow butter from a grass fed

> Canadienne you might want to see if there is any difference in the

> vitamin A content and in the anti-rachitic factor measured by

Yoder's

> chemical test published in the Journal of Biology in Oct. 1926. If

> there is no differnece in these two factors, you probably would not

> want to proceed with the feeding experiment. On the other hand, if

> there is a difference, you probably would want to proceed with the

> experiment and see if these factors make any difference in the

health

> of the test animals, over several generations, if possible.

> Chi

...Hello Chi:

It would be great to have children layout the feeding experiment

with their teacher. Which lab animal is satisfactory for the cream or

perhaps butter test? I'd rather use cream cause it's more work to

make butter and butter's worth more too............ And what about

grains that are not good to feed? Is cereal grain bad for chickens.

I know this topic has been discussed recently but I don't think

anyone

considered cereals, just corn. I'd think sprouts would be ideal for

chickens and pigs. Sprouting is more costly (work). I'm guessing

there's something wrong

with

the grain's protein component. By cereals I'm referring to barley,

wheat and oats. You must and surely do understand that farming is

much more than just harvesting eggs, raw milk, lard, animal protein

and grass (For the cow, goat and chicken).

Farming is interesting to some but it is so labor intensive we never

get all the work done and it certainly doesn't get done the best

way. Farmers disagree about like some of us on this board. Thanks

again for your interaction. Dennis

[Guest guest]

>Again, I suggest that perhaps the primary reason the Canadienne is a

>good cow for producing high nutritional milk (when it is on high soil

>fertility), is that it has been spared 'modern' breeding programs.

How would you compare the Canadienne with the Jersey? Of the widely-known

breeds the Jersey is (AFAIK) considered the best, but there seem to be a

tremendous number of boutique heirloom breeds. Has anyone ever done any

kind of study of the quality of the milk from various breeds?

-

[Guest guest]

Belinda

You wrote:

" We are [good friends], they pat me on the head with their tail and I sing to

them. "

ohhhh that is so sweet..that sounds just absolutely idyllic to me

Sonja

[Guest guest]

> How would you compare the Canadienne with the Jersey? Of the widely-known

> breeds the Jersey is (AFAIK) considered the best, but there seem to be a

> tremendous number of boutique heirloom breeds. Has anyone ever done any

> kind of study of the quality of the milk from various breeds?

The jersey is considered the best at least partly because of the low fat

dogma. They produce high milk solids relative to milk fat. From what I've

read, they also produce more milk per pound of body weight than any other

full-size breed. I'm told that my grandfather always swore by Guernseys as

producing some of the best milk, but he's been gone for 30 years.

Since we're all very interested in grass-fed milk from animals that spend as

much time out of doors as possible, we should focus on knowing what breeds

are the best grazers and among them which ones are best adapted to our

local climate, terrain and forage conditions. There is wide variability in

what each can tolerate and still do well with. Canadiennes, guernseys,

milking devons are all great grazers. Each has different climatic and

forage preferences though.

If you're interested in researching dairy breeds, particularly the obscure

foundation breeds that are in danger of being lost, I've found this website

to be fairly useful: http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/cattle/ .

If you're really interested in heirloom breeds, check out the American

Livestock Breeds Conservancy at http://www.albc-usa.org/wtchlist.htm .

[Guest guest]

> > How would you compare the Canadienne with the Jersey? Of the

widely-known

>

> > breeds the Jersey is (AFAIK) considered the best, but there seem

to be a

> > tremendous number of boutique heirloom breeds. Has anyone ever

done any

> > kind of study of the quality of the milk from various breeds?

>

> The jersey is considered the best at least partly because of the low

fat

> dogma. They produce high milk solids relative to milk fat. From

what I've

> read, they also produce more milk per pound of body weight than any

other

> full-size breed. I'm told that my grandfather always swore by

Guernseys as

> producing some of the best milk, but he's been gone for 30 years.

>

> Since we're all very interested in grass-fed milk from animals that

spend as

> much time out of doors as possible, we should focus on knowing what

breeds

> are the best grazers and among them which ones are best adapted to

our

> local climate, terrain and forage conditions. There is wide

variability in

> what each can tolerate and still do well with. Canadiennes,

guernseys,

> milking devons are all great grazers. Each has different climatic

and

> forage preferences though.

>

> If you're interested in researching dairy breeds, particularly the

obscure

> foundation breeds that are in danger of being lost, I've found this

website

> to be fairly useful: http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/cattle/ .

>

> If you're really interested in heirloom breeds, check out the

American

> Livestock Breeds Conservancy at http://www.albc-usa.org/wtchlist.htm

..

>

>

Hi :

We've been overlooking this fact: the cow, goat, sheep, alpaca, llama

and others turn grass into milk. Price's research in other countries

was not done on Jersey's only. Let's look at all grazing mammals.

Dennis