Re: Re: Amy hormone question

[Guest guest]

Hi Amy,

Thanks for your explanation. Yes, I am female. I'm 54, in menopause and just

buried my mom from breast cancer (which was estrogen driven). So, while the

hormone idea makes sense, I am very, very skeptical of even putting a hormone in

or on my body. My doctor wanted me to take the prescription progestrone, but

when I read the side effects of possible cancer, I just chucked the pills down

the drain.

Does the hormone protocol address all of these issues in depth?

My scleroderma numbers were well on the way down (624) down from greater than

5,000. Then in taking care of my mom and the stress, they have doubled. So, I am

looking at all avenues to address this disease.

Thanks!

Roni

Re: rheumatic New/Old and Effective RA Treatment

> > rheumatic@grou> ps.com <mailto:rheumatic%> 40groups.> com>

>

> > > Hi Amy,

> > > You certainly responded in a hurry.

> > > Your questions:

> > > 1) The hormone drops are available from most any

> > > compounding pharmacy. We get ours from Weise Pharmacy, ville, FL

> > > 2) A doctor has to prescribe the sublinqual drops.

>

> > > 3) You can contact Arthritis Consulting Services (stoparthritis.> > com)

> > > for info for you and your doctor.

>

> > > Good Luck,

> > >

>

> > > Amy wrote:

> > >

> > > > Hi, . I just love reading all this good news. Can you tell me

> > > > where you get the hormone drops. Are these sublingual or transdermal?

> > > > Is it a prescription?

> > >

> > > > I know they are doing studies on hormones for RA, but it takes the

> > > > medical community so long to get anywhere. I think there are many

> > > > people that could be helped. Not everyone, but certainly some. Dr.

> > > > Simeons writes about this hormone effect in his book called Pounds and

> > > > Inches. This is a free book on the internet.

> > >

> > > > I can vouch for having low testosterone. I'm taking testosterone cream

> > > > and progesterone. One thing that had definitely been helping me lately

> > > > is vitamin K. I take a bunch, and if I don't take it, pains start to

> > > > come back.

> > >

> > > > Amy

> > >

> > > > Wiesboeck wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi Leonie,

> > > > >

> > > > > It was nice to hear from you. It goes back to the old times, for us.

> > > > > Fortunately, RA is a thing of the past

> > > > > for nne. Although she still needs the hormone drops, her RA

> > > > > symptoms are gone and she feels fine.

> > > > > She still is lacking somewhat in energy but that may be related to

> > > > > other things, and being 76 puts on some

> > > > > limitations too. We like to think it should go back to what is

> > was 10

> > > > > and 20 years ago (don't we wish).

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyway, the hormone treatment of RA (this means RA only) is

> > according to

> > > > > my wife's experience a dream

> > > > > come true. As I mentioned earlier, there are no problematic side

> > effects

> > > > > and the treatment is so fast, painless and

> > > > > without bad feelings. No Herx, no stomach problems, no immune

> > issues,

> > > > > nothing !! nne was so glad

> > > > > to get off all the medications and pain killers. Her nutrition

> > is on the

> > > > > healthy side ( limitted dairy, very little sugar)but nothing

> > extreme.

> > > > >

> > > > > In the application of the Liefmann Protocol, the sublinqual hormone

> > > > > drops are taken three times a day and as the picture improves

> > > > > the dose is gradually reduced. After four months, she switched

> > to twice

> > > > > a day which is her present routine.

> > > > > By now, she is at about 40% of the initial dose.

> > > > >

> > > > > Similar to the AP, the treatment is guided by symptoms. If the

> > dose is

> > > > > reduced too much ,RA symptoms like

> > > > > finger stiffness comes back. The ability to make a closed fist

> > is a good

> > > > > indicator.

> > > > >

> > > > > The hormone dose is similarly guided by symptoms and feeling.

> > There is a

> > > > > list of symptoms for estrogen and

> > > > > testosterone being to high or too low and it is easily corrected.

> > > > > Ever since nne is on the Liefmann protocol all her lab data are

> > > > > back to normal.

> > > > > Osteo arthritis is also controlled by the Liefmann protocol !

> > > > >

> > > > > Now the prime question, estrogen and hormone related cancers. I

> > > > > thoroughly studied this aspect for obvious reasons and came up with

> > > > > some surprising and reassuring information. First of all, the

> > overall

> > > > > treatment of about 23,000 patients with the

> > > > > Liefmann treatment showed no problems with cancer.

> > > > > A literature survey revealed that testosterone has preventive and

> > > > > protective properties when it comes to " female "

> > > > > cancers. In a study at the Lousiana Menopause Clinic, 4000 women

> > were

> > > > > treated with testosterone supplementation.

> > > > > In the well documented study, the group taking testosterone had a

> > > > > cancer rate of less than half (46%) than that

> > > > > of the control group.

> > > > > Also, RA patients (male and female) typically have a subnormal

> > > > > testosterone level.

> > > > >

> > > > > To insure safety from cancer in general, nne applies dermal

> > > > > Progesterone ( 100 mg /day) to avoid estrogen

> > > > > dominance, takes DIM (di-indolylmethane) and eats many brassica

> > > > > vegetables (broccoli) to control the 2/16 metabolite

> > > > > ratio. See: http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer.> >

> > shtml

> > > > <http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer.> > shtml>

> > > > > <http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer.> > shtml

> > > > <http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer.> > shtml>>

> > > > >

> > > > > Leonie, being in Australia it would be best if you find a

> > cooperative

> > > > > doctor (your family doctor is probably the best choice,

> > > > > rheumatologists are the worst) who is willing to help you and

> > contact

> > > > > stoparthritis.> > com for info. They will work with your

> > > > > doctor and provide all the info he/she needs.

> > > > >

> > > > > Good luck,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > ============> > =========> =========> =========> =========>

> > =========> =========> =========> =========> ==========

> > > > >

> > > > > > ,___

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

I think I can understand how you feel. Don't blame you a bit.

Congratulations on your success on scleroderma numbers! Your success is

quite remarkable! Certainly a good sign.

Since your family history suggests that you would want to minimize

estrogen, then other ideas are to avoid estrogen promoting foods, and

emphasize those that are said to metabolize the estrogen you do have. I

would imagine it's hard to manage when there's a genetic component.

Amy

rbarna dejazzd.com wrote:

>

>

> Hi Amy,

>

> Thanks for your explanation. Yes, I am female. I'm 54, in menopause

> and just buried my mom from breast cancer (which was estrogen driven).

> So, while the hormone idea makes sense, I am very, very skeptical of

> even putting a hormone in or on my body. My doctor wanted me to take

> the prescription progestrone, but when I read the side effects of

> possible cancer, I just chucked the pills down the drain.

>

> Does the hormone protocol address all of these issues in depth?

>

> My scleroderma numbers were well on the way down (624) down from

> greater than 5,000. Then in taking care of my mom and the stress, they

> have doubled. So, I am looking at all avenues to address this disease.

>

> Thanks!

> Roni

> Re: rheumatic New/Old and Effective RA Treatment

> > > rheumatic@grou> ps.com <mailto:rheumatic%>

> 40groups.> com>

> >

> > > > Hi Amy,

> > > > You certainly responded in a hurry.

> > > > Your questions:

> > > > 1) The hormone drops are available from most any

> > > > compounding pharmacy. We get ours from Weise Pharmacy,

> ville, FL

> > > > 2) A doctor has to prescribe the sublinqual drops.

> >

> > > > 3) You can contact Arthritis Consulting Services

> (stoparthritis.> > com)

> > > > for info for you and your doctor.

> >

> > > > Good Luck,

> > > >

> >

> > > > Amy wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Hi, . I just love reading all this good news. Can you

> tell me

> > > > > where you get the hormone drops. Are these sublingual or

> transdermal?

> > > > > Is it a prescription?

> > > >

> > > > > I know they are doing studies on hormones for RA, but it takes the

> > > > > medical community so long to get anywhere. I think there are many

> > > > > people that could be helped. Not everyone, but certainly some. Dr.

> > > > > Simeons writes about this hormone effect in his book called

> Pounds and

> > > > > Inches. This is a free book on the internet.

> > > >

> > > > > I can vouch for having low testosterone. I'm taking

> testosterone cream

> > > > > and progesterone. One thing that had definitely been helping

> me lately

> > > > > is vitamin K. I take a bunch, and if I don't take it, pains

> start to

> > > > > come back.

> > > >

> > > > > Amy

> > > >

> > > > > Wiesboeck wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hi Leonie,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It was nice to hear from you. It goes back to the old times,

> for us.

> > > > > > Fortunately, RA is a thing of the past

> > > > > > for nne. Although she still needs the hormone drops, her RA

> > > > > > symptoms are gone and she feels fine.

> > > > > > She still is lacking somewhat in energy but that may be

> related to

> > > > > > other things, and being 76 puts on some

> > > > > > limitations too. We like to think it should go back to what is

> > > was 10

> > > > > > and 20 years ago (don't we wish).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyway, the hormone treatment of RA (this means RA only) is

> > > according to

> > > > > > my wife's experience a dream

> > > > > > come true. As I mentioned earlier, there are no problematic

> side

> > > effects

> > > > > > and the treatment is so fast, painless and

> > > > > > without bad feelings. No Herx, no stomach problems, no immune

> > > issues,

> > > > > > nothing !! nne was so glad

> > > > > > to get off all the medications and pain killers. Her nutrition

> > > is on the

> > > > > > healthy side ( limitted dairy, very little sugar)but nothing

> > > extreme.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In the application of the Liefmann Protocol, the sublinqual

> hormone

> > > > > > drops are taken three times a day and as the picture improves

> > > > > > the dose is gradually reduced. After four months, she switched

> > > to twice

> > > > > > a day which is her present routine.

> > > > > > By now, she is at about 40% of the initial dose.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Similar to the AP, the treatment is guided by symptoms. If the

> > > dose is

> > > > > > reduced too much ,RA symptoms like

> > > > > > finger stiffness comes back. The ability to make a closed fist

> > > is a good

> > > > > > indicator.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The hormone dose is similarly guided by symptoms and feeling.

> > > There is a

> > > > > > list of symptoms for estrogen and

> > > > > > testosterone being to high or too low and it is easily

> corrected.

> > > > > > Ever since nne is on the Liefmann protocol all her lab

> data are

> > > > > > back to normal.

> > > > > > Osteo arthritis is also controlled by the Liefmann protocol !

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now the prime question, estrogen and hormone related cancers. I

> > > > > > thoroughly studied this aspect for obvious reasons and came

> up with

> > > > > > some surprising and reassuring information. First of all, the

> > > overall

> > > > > > treatment of about 23,000 patients with the

> > > > > > Liefmann treatment showed no problems with cancer.

> > > > > > A literature survey revealed that testosterone has

> preventive and

> > > > > > protective properties when it comes to " female "

> > > > > > cancers. In a study at the Lousiana Menopause Clinic, 4000

> women

> > > were

> > > > > > treated with testosterone supplementation.

> > > > > > In the well documented study, the group taking testosterone

> had a

> > > > > > cancer rate of less than half (46%) than that

> > > > > > of the control group.

> > > > > > Also, RA patients (male and female) typically have a subnormal

> > > > > > testosterone level.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To insure safety from cancer in general, nne applies dermal

> > > > > > Progesterone ( 100 mg /day) to avoid estrogen

> > > > > > dominance, takes DIM (di-indolylmethane) and eats many brassica

> > > > > > vegetables (broccoli) to control the 2/16 metabolite

> > > > > > ratio. See: http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/>

> hrtbreastcancer.> >

> > > shtml

> > > > > <http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer.> > shtml>

> > > > > > <http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer.> > shtml

> > > > > <http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer.> > shtml>>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Leonie, being in Australia it would be best if you find a

> > > cooperative

> > > > > > doctor (your family doctor is probably the best choice,

> > > > > > rheumatologists are the worst) who is willing to help you and

> > > contact

> > > > > > stoparthritis.> > com for info. They will work with your

> > > > > > doctor and provide all the info he/she needs.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Good luck,

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > ============> > =========> =========> =========> =========>

> > > =========> =========> =========> =========> ==========

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > ,___

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Thanks Amy,

Where are you getting your information from? Is there a book, resource that I

can get to read about this? If there is a connection between hormones and

auto-immune conditions, then what people who are predisposed to family history

do to normalize this? Just use foods? Any other info or resources that you have

would be appreciated!

BTW- prior to going on AP, I dropped my numbers from greater than 5,000 just by

juicing, changing my diet and lots and lots of supplements. Today I'm off to the

store to start my juicing regime again.

When I went to Dr. Whitman this past week, he kept plucking at my skin on my

hands and arms and kept saying that this is " most unusual " to be able to pull up

the skin on my knuckles after having scleroderma for so long. Whew! I thought

that was good news!

Thanks!

Roni

Re: rheumatic New/Old and Effective RA Treatment

> > > > rheumatic@grou> > ps.com <mailto:rheumatic%> >

> > 40groups.> > com>

> > >

> > > > > Hi Amy,

> > > > > You certainly responded in a hurry.

> > > > > Your questions:

> > > > > 1) The hormone drops are available from most any

> > > > > compounding pharmacy. We get ours from Weise Pharmacy,

> > ville, FL

> > > > > 2) A doctor has to prescribe the sublinqual drops.

> > >

> > > > > 3) You can contact Arthritis Consulting Services

> > (stoparthritis.> > > com)

> > > > > for info for you and your doctor.

> > >

> > > > > Good Luck,

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Amy wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Hi, . I just love reading all this good news. Can you

> > tell me

> > > > > > where you get the hormone drops. Are these sublingual or

> > transdermal?

> > > > > > Is it a prescription?

> > > > >

> > > > > > I know they are doing studies on hormones for RA, but it takes the

> > > > > > medical community so long to get anywhere. I think there are many

> > > > > > people that could be helped. Not everyone, but certainly some. Dr.

> > > > > > Simeons writes about this hormone effect in his book called

> > Pounds and

> > > > > > Inches. This is a free book on the internet.

> > > > >

> > > > > > I can vouch for having low testosterone. I'm taking

> > testosterone cream

> > > > > > and progesterone. One thing that had definitely been helping

> > me lately

> > > > > > is vitamin K. I take a bunch, and if I don't take it, pains

> > start to

> > > > > > come back.

> > > > >

> > > > > > Amy

> > > > >

> > > > > > Wiesboeck wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hi Leonie,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It was nice to hear from you. It goes back to the old times,

> > for us.

> > > > > > > Fortunately, RA is a thing of the past

> > > > > > > for nne. Although she still needs the hormone drops, her RA

> > > > > > > symptoms are gone and she feels fine.

> > > > > > > She still is lacking somewhat in energy but that may be

> > related to

> > > > > > > other things, and being 76 puts on some

> > > > > > > limitations too. We like to think it should go back to what is

> > > > was 10

> > > > > > > and 20 years ago (don't we wish).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Anyway, the hormone treatment of RA (this means RA only) is

> > > > according to

> > > > > > > my wife's experience a dream

> > > > > > > come true. As I mentioned earlier, there are no problematic

> > side

> > > > effects

> > > > > > > and the treatment is so fast, painless and

> > > > > > > without bad feelings. No Herx, no stomach problems, no immune

> > > > issues,

> > > > > > > nothing !! nne was so glad

> > > > > > > to get off all the medications and pain killers. Her nutrition

> > > > is on the

> > > > > > > healthy side ( limitted dairy, very little sugar)but nothing

> > > > extreme.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In the application of the Liefmann Protocol, the sublinqual

> > hormone

> > > > > > > drops are taken three times a day and as the picture improves

> > > > > > > the dose is gradually reduced. After four months, she switched

> > > > to twice

> > > > > > > a day which is her present routine.

> > > > > > > By now, she is at about 40% of the initial dose.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Similar to the AP, the treatment is guided by symptoms. If the

> > > > dose is

> > > > > > > reduced too much ,RA symptoms like

> > > > > > > finger stiffness comes back. The ability to make a closed fist

> > > > is a good

> > > > > > > indicator.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The hormone dose is similarly guided by symptoms and feeling.

> > > > There is a

> > > > > > > list of symptoms for estrogen and

> > > > > > > testosterone being to high or too low and it is easily

> > corrected.

> > > > > > > Ever since nne is on the Liefmann protocol all her lab

> > data are

> > > > > > > back to normal.

> > > > > > > Osteo arthritis is also controlled by the Liefmann protocol !

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now the prime question, estrogen and hormone related cancers. I

> > > > > > > thoroughly studied this aspect for obvious reasons and came

> > up with

> > > > > > > some surprising and reassuring information. First of all, the

> > > > overall

> > > > > > > treatment of about 23,000 patients with the

> > > > > > > Liefmann treatment showed no problems with cancer.

> > > > > > > A literature survey revealed that testosterone has

> > preventive and

> > > > > > > protective properties when it comes to " female "

> > > > > > > cancers. In a study at the Lousiana Menopause Clinic, 4000

> > women

> > > > were

> > > > > > > treated with testosterone supplementation.

> > > > > > > In the well documented study, the group taking testosterone

> > had a

> > > > > > > cancer rate of less than half (46%) than that

> > > > > > > of the control group.

> > > > > > > Also, RA patients (male and female) typically have a subnormal

> > > > > > > testosterone level.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > To insure safety from cancer in general, nne applies dermal

> > > > > > > Progesterone ( 100 mg /day) to avoid estrogen

> > > > > > > dominance, takes DIM (di-indolylmethane) and eats many brassica

> > > > > > > vegetables (broccoli) to control the 2/16 metabolite

> > > > > > > ratio. See: http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/>

> > hrtbreastcancer.> > >

> > > > shtml

> > > > > > <http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer.> > > shtml>

> > > > > > > <http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer.> > > shtml

> > > > > > <http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer.> > > shtml>>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Leonie, being in Australia it would be best if you find a

> > > > cooperative

> > > > > > > doctor (your family doctor is probably the best choice,

> > > > > > > rheumatologists are the worst) who is willing to help you and

> > > > contact

> > > > > > > stoparthritis.> > > com for info. They will work with your

> > > > > > > doctor and provide all the info he/she needs.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Good luck,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > ============> > > =========> =========> =========> =========>

> > > > =========> =========> =========> =========> ==========

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ,___

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Thanks Debbie,

I am determined to lick this disease. Dr. Whitman's comment was that is must be

all of the supplements that I take that has helped. While I love Dr. Whitman, he

is still an " MD " and his perspective is still from the " textbook " . He gives

excellent advice medically and is well-read, but we still need to be our own

advocates to be well-rounded in the restoration of our health. Prior to being

diagnosed with SD I put my health into doctor's hands without reservation. No

more.....If we continue to help each other on this website, hopefully everyone

will have the opportunity to get well.

Roni

Re: rheumatic New/Old and Effective RA Treatment

> > > > > rheumatic@grou> > > ps.com <mailto:rheumatic%> > >

> > > 40groups.> > > com>

> > > >

> > > > > > Hi Amy,

> > > > > > You certainly responded in a hurry.

> > > > > > Your questions:

> > > > > > 1) The hormone drops are available from most any

> > > > > > compounding pharmacy. We get ours from Weise Pharmacy,

> > > ville, FL

> > > > > > 2) A doctor has to prescribe the sublinqual drops.

> > > >

> > > > > > 3) You can contact Arthritis Consulting Services

> > > (stoparthritis.> > > > com)

> > > > > > for info for you and your doctor.

> > > >

> > > > > > Good Luck,

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > Amy wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hi, . I just love reading all this good news. Can you

> > > tell me

> > > > > > > where you get the hormone drops. Are these sublingual or

> > > transdermal?

> > > > > > > Is it a prescription?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > I know they are doing studies on hormones for RA, but it takes the

> > > > > > > medical community so long to get anywhere. I think there are many

> > > > > > > people that could be helped. Not everyone, but certainly some. Dr.

> > > > > > > Simeons writes about this hormone effect in his book called

> > > Pounds and

> > > > > > > Inches. This is a free book on the internet.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > I can vouch for having low testosterone. I'm taking

> > > testosterone cream

> > > > > > > and progesterone. One thing that had definitely been helping

> > > me lately

> > > > > > > is vitamin K. I take a bunch, and if I don't take it, pains

> > > start to

> > > > > > > come back.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Amy

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Wiesboeck wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hi Leonie,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It was nice to hear from you. It goes back to the old times,

> > > for us.

> > > > > > > > Fortunately, RA is a thing of the past

> > > > > > > > for nne. Although she still needs the hormone drops, her RA

> > > > > > > > symptoms are gone and she feels fine.

> > > > > > > > She still is lacking somewhat in energy but that may be

> > > related to

> > > > > > > > other things, and being 76 puts on some

> > > > > > > > limitations too. We like to think it should go back to what is

> > > > > was 10

> > > > > > > > and 20 years ago (don't we wish).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Anyway, the hormone treatment of RA (this means RA only) is

> > > > > according to

> > > > > > > > my wife's experience a dream

> > > > > > > > come true. As I mentioned earlier, there are no problematic

> > > side

> > > > > effects

> > > > > > > > and the treatment is so fast, painless and

> > > > > > > > without bad feelings. No Herx, no stomach problems, no immune

> > > > > issues,

> > > > > > > > nothing !! nne was so glad

> > > > > > > > to get off all the medications and pain killers. Her nutrition

> > > > > is on the

> > > > > > > > healthy side ( limitted dairy, very little sugar)but nothing

> > > > > extreme.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In the application of the Liefmann Protocol, the sublinqual

> > > hormone

> > > > > > > > drops are taken three times a day and as the picture improves

> > > > > > > > the dose is gradually reduced. After four months, she switched

> > > > > to twice

> > > > > > > > a day which is her present routine.

> > > > > > > > By now, she is at about 40% of the initial dose.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Similar to the AP, the treatment is guided by symptoms. If the

> > > > > dose is

> > > > > > > > reduced too much ,RA symptoms like

> > > > > > > > finger stiffness comes back. The ability to make a closed fist

> > > > > is a good

> > > > > > > > indicator.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The hormone dose is similarly guided by symptoms and feeling.

> > > > > There is a

> > > > > > > > list of symptoms for estrogen and

> > > > > > > > testosterone being to high or too low and it is easily

> > > corrected.

> > > > > > > > Ever since nne is on the Liefmann protocol all her lab

> > > data are

> > > > > > > > back to normal.

> > > > > > > > Osteo arthritis is also controlled by the Liefmann protocol !

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Now the prime question, estrogen and hormone related cancers. I

> > > > > > > > thoroughly studied this aspect for obvious reasons and came

> > > up with

> > > > > > > > some surprising and reassuring information. First of all, the

> > > > > overall

> > > > > > > > treatment of about 23,000 patients with the

> > > > > > > > Liefmann treatment showed no problems with cancer.

> > > > > > > > A literature survey revealed that testosterone has

> > > preventive and

> > > > > > > > protective properties when it comes to " female "

> > > > > > > > cancers. In a study at the Lousiana Menopause Clinic, 4000

> > > women

> > > > > were

> > > > > > > > treated with testosterone supplementation.

> > > > > > > > In the well documented study, the group taking testosterone

> > > had a

> > > > > > > > cancer rate of less than half (46%) than that

> > > > > > > > of the control group.

> > > > > > > > Also, RA patients (male and female) typically have a subnormal

> > > > > > > > testosterone level.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > To insure safety from cancer in general, nne applies dermal

> > > > > > > > Progesterone ( 100 mg /day) to avoid estrogen

> > > > > > > > dominance, takes DIM (di-indolylmethane) and eats many brassica

> > > > > > > > vegetables (broccoli) to control the 2/16 metabolite

> > > > > > > > ratio. See: http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/>

> > > hrtbreastcancer.> > > >

> > > > > shtml

> > > > > > > <http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer.> > > > shtml>

> > > > > > > > <http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer.> > > > shtml

> > > > > > > <http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer.> > > > shtml>>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Leonie, being in Australia it would be best if you find a

> > > > > cooperative

> > > > > > > > doctor (your family doctor is probably the best choice,

> > > > > > > > rheumatologists are the worst) who is willing to help you and

> > > > > contact

> > > > > > > > stoparthritis.> > > > com for info. They will work with your

> > > > > > > > doctor and provide all the info he/she needs.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Good luck,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ============> > > > =========> =========> =========> =========>

> > > > > =========> =========> =========> =========> ==========

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ,___

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Roni,

 

I went to my rheumy yesterday and she was very upset when I told her I no longer

take any RA medication. She told me in so many words, that only the strong

RA/dermatomyositis etc. medicine will make me hang in there. She gave me another

round of prescription which will never be filled by me. These people live by

what they have been taught with blinders on, plus the lure of the money from the

pharmaceuticals.

I drive 130 miles to a AP doctor. I can tell the difference. It will take a time

but I belief I will get well again. I have improved a lot, not as much as I

would like but 7 months is a short time when you have been very ill for three

years and given the louse arthritis medications. I had to do my own homework to

find out that there is other things out there to help me.

BTW- I am going to visit Dolores and Mike this weekend in Corpus Christi so I

will mostly likely get some more good input. They are such strong people in

their belief of getting well.

 

Take care,

Eva

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hi Leonie,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It was nice to hear from you. It goes back to the old times,

> > > for us.

> > > > > > > > Fortunately, RA is a thing of the past

> > > > > > > > for nne. Although she still needs the hormone drops, her RA

> > > > > > > > symptoms are gone and she feels fine.

> > > > > > > > She still is lacking somewhat in energy but that may be

> > > related to

> > > > > > > > other things, and being 76 puts on some

> > > > > > > > limitations too. We like to think it should go back to what is

> > > > > was 10

> > > > > > > > and 20 years ago (don't we wish).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Anyway, the hormone treatment of RA (this means RA only) is

> > > > > according to

> > > > > > > > my wife's experience a dream

> > > > > > > > come true. As I mentioned earlier, there are no problematic

> > > side

> > > > > effects

> > > > > > > > and the treatment is so fast, painless and

> > > > > > > > without bad feelings. No Herx, no stomach problems, no immune

> > > > > issues,

> > > > > > > > nothing !! nne was so glad

> > > > > > > > to get off all the medications and pain killers. Her nutrition

> > > > > is on the

> > > > > > > > healthy side ( limitted dairy, very little sugar)but nothing

> > > > > extreme.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In the application of the Liefmann Protocol, the sublinqual

> > > hormone

> > > > > > > > drops are taken three times a day and as the picture improves

> > > > > > > > the dose is gradually reduced. After four months, she switched

> > > > > to twice

> > > > > > > > a day which is her present routine.

> > > > > > > > By now, she is at about 40% of the initial dose.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Similar to the AP, the treatment is guided by symptoms. If the

> > > > > dose is

> > > > > > > > reduced too much ,RA symptoms like

> > > > > > > > finger stiffness comes back. The ability to make a closed fist

> > > > > is a good

> > > > > > > > indicator.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The hormone dose is similarly guided by symptoms and feeling.

> > > > > There is a

> > > > > > > > list of symptoms for estrogen and

> > > > > > > > testosterone being to high or too low and it is easily

> > > corrected.

> > > > > > > > Ever since nne is on the Liefmann protocol all her lab

> > > data are

> > > > > > > > back to normal.

> > > > > > > > Osteo arthritis is also controlled by the Liefmann protocol !

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Now the prime question, estrogen and hormone related cancers. I

> > > > > > > > thoroughly studied this aspect for obvious reasons and came

> > > up with

> > > > > > > > some surprising and reassuring information. First of all, the

> > > > > overall

> > > > > > > > treatment of about 23,000 patients with the

> > > > > > > > Liefmann treatment showed no problems with cancer.

> > > > > > > > A literature survey revealed that testosterone has

> > > preventive and

> > > > > > > > protective properties when it comes to " female "

> > > > > > > > cancers. In a study at the Lousiana Menopause Clinic, 4000

> > > women

> > > > > were

> > > > > > > > treated with testosterone supplementation.

> > > > > > > > In the well documented study, the group taking testosterone

> > > had a

> > > > > > > > cancer rate of less than half (46%) than that

> > > > > > > > of the control group.

> > > > > > > > Also, RA patients (male and female) typically have a subnormal

> > > > > > > > testosterone level.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > To insure safety from cancer in general, nne applies dermal

> > > > > > > > Progesterone ( 100 mg /day) to avoid estrogen

> > > > > > > > dominance, takes DIM (di-indolylmethane) and eats many brassica

> > > > > > > > vegetables (broccoli) to control the 2/16 metabolite

> > > > > > > > ratio. See: http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/>

> > > hrtbreastcancer. > > > >

> > > > > shtml

> > > > > > > <http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer. > > > > shtml>

> > > > > > > > <http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer. > > > > shtml

> > > > > > > <http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer. > > > > shtml>>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Leonie, being in Australia it would be best if you find a

> > > > > cooperative

> > > > > > > > doctor (your family doctor is probably the best choice,

> > > > > > > > rheumatologists are the worst) who is willing to help you and

> > > > > contact

> > > > > > > > stoparthritis. > > > > com for info. They will work with your

> > > > > > > > doctor and provide all the info he/she needs.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Good luck,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ============ > > > > =========> =========> =========> =========>

> > > > > =========> =========> =========> =========> ==========

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ,___

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

I agree....Dr W is by far, the best Dr I have...my local Internist is phenomenal

but some of the Drs here in town, " blow me off " because I have no skin

involvement. Dr W is the DR that found out I have a particular form of SD, a

subset called Anti TH-TO...these SD patients are anticentromere positive and

carry this antibody......Very little, if any skin involvement but almost always

lung issues..(which I have) PH...renal issues and the joint pain, along with

puffy fingers...which was my first symptom...thank God for DR W...There is a

note at the bottom of the study that says that DRs need to be aware of this

subset because these patients get missed...UH HUH!

Re: rheumatic New/Old and Effective RA Treatment

> > > > > rheumatic@grou> > > ps.com <mailto:rheumatic%> > >

> > > 40groups.> > > com>

> > > >

> > > > > > Hi Amy,

> > > > > > You certainly responded in a hurry.

> > > > > > Your questions:

> > > > > > 1) The hormone drops are available from most any

> > > > > > compounding pharmacy. We get ours from Weise Pharmacy,

> > > ville, FL

> > > > > > 2) A doctor has to prescribe the sublinqual drops.

> > > >

> > > > > > 3) You can contact Arthritis Consulting Services

> > > (stoparthritis.> > > > com)

> > > > > > for info for you and your doctor.

> > > >

> > > > > > Good Luck,

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > Amy wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hi, . I just love reading all this good news. Can you

> > > tell me

> > > > > > > where you get the hormone drops. Are these sublingual or

> > > transdermal?

> > > > > > > Is it a prescription?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > I know they are doing studies on hormones for RA, but it takes

the

> > > > > > > medical community so long to get anywhere. I think there are

many

> > > > > > > people that could be helped. Not everyone, but certainly some.

Dr.

> > > > > > > Simeons writes about this hormone effect in his book called

> > > Pounds and

> > > > > > > Inches. This is a free book on the internet.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > I can vouch for having low testosterone. I'm taking

> > > testosterone cream

> > > > > > > and progesterone. One thing that had definitely been helping

> > > me lately

> > > > > > > is vitamin K. I take a bunch, and if I don't take it, pains

> > > start to

> > > > > > > come back.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Amy

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Wiesboeck wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hi Leonie,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It was nice to hear from you. It goes back to the old times,

> > > for us.

> > > > > > > > Fortunately, RA is a thing of the past

> > > > > > > > for nne. Although she still needs the hormone drops, her

RA

> > > > > > > > symptoms are gone and she feels fine.

> > > > > > > > She still is lacking somewhat in energy but that may be

> > > related to

> > > > > > > > other things, and being 76 puts on some

> > > > > > > > limitations too. We like to think it should go back to what is

> > > > > was 10

> > > > > > > > and 20 years ago (don't we wish).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Anyway, the hormone treatment of RA (this means RA only) is

> > > > > according to

> > > > > > > > my wife's experience a dream

> > > > > > > > come true. As I mentioned earlier, there are no problematic

> > > side

> > > > > effects

> > > > > > > > and the treatment is so fast, painless and

> > > > > > > > without bad feelings. No Herx, no stomach problems, no immune

> > > > > issues,

> > > > > > > > nothing !! nne was so glad

> > > > > > > > to get off all the medications and pain killers. Her nutrition

> > > > > is on the

> > > > > > > > healthy side ( limitted dairy, very little sugar)but nothing

> > > > > extreme.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In the application of the Liefmann Protocol, the sublinqual

> > > hormone

> > > > > > > > drops are taken three times a day and as the picture improves

> > > > > > > > the dose is gradually reduced. After four months, she switched

> > > > > to twice

> > > > > > > > a day which is her present routine.

> > > > > > > > By now, she is at about 40% of the initial dose.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Similar to the AP, the treatment is guided by symptoms. If the

> > > > > dose is

> > > > > > > > reduced too much ,RA symptoms like

> > > > > > > > finger stiffness comes back. The ability to make a closed fist

> > > > > is a good

> > > > > > > > indicator.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The hormone dose is similarly guided by symptoms and feeling.

> > > > > There is a

> > > > > > > > list of symptoms for estrogen and

> > > > > > > > testosterone being to high or too low and it is easily

> > > corrected.

> > > > > > > > Ever since nne is on the Liefmann protocol all her lab

> > > data are

> > > > > > > > back to normal.

> > > > > > > > Osteo arthritis is also controlled by the Liefmann protocol !

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Now the prime question, estrogen and hormone related cancers.

I

> > > > > > > > thoroughly studied this aspect for obvious reasons and came

> > > up with

> > > > > > > > some surprising and reassuring information. First of all, the

> > > > > overall

> > > > > > > > treatment of about 23,000 patients with the

> > > > > > > > Liefmann treatment showed no problems with cancer.

> > > > > > > > A literature survey revealed that testosterone has

> > > preventive and

> > > > > > > > protective properties when it comes to " female "

> > > > > > > > cancers. In a study at the Lousiana Menopause Clinic, 4000

> > > women

> > > > > were

> > > > > > > > treated with testosterone supplementation.

> > > > > > > > In the well documented study, the group taking testosterone

> > > had a

> > > > > > > > cancer rate of less than half (46%) than that

> > > > > > > > of the control group.

> > > > > > > > Also, RA patients (male and female) typically have a subnormal

> > > > > > > > testosterone level.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > To insure safety from cancer in general, nne applies

dermal

> > > > > > > > Progesterone ( 100 mg /day) to avoid estrogen

> > > > > > > > dominance, takes DIM (di-indolylmethane) and eats many

brassica

> > > > > > > > vegetables (broccoli) to control the 2/16 metabolite

> > > > > > > > ratio. See: http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/>

> > > hrtbreastcancer.> > > >

> > > > > shtml

> > > > > > > <http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer.> > > > shtml>

> > > > > > > > <http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer.> > > >

shtml

> > > > > > > <http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer.> > > >

shtml>>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Leonie, being in Australia it would be best if you find a

> > > > > cooperative

> > > > > > > > doctor (your family doctor is probably the best choice,

> > > > > > > > rheumatologists are the worst) who is willing to help you and

> > > > > contact

> > > > > > > > stoparthritis.> > > > com for info. They will work with your

> > > > > > > > doctor and provide all the info he/she needs.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Good luck,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ============> > > > =========> =========> =========> =========>

> > > > > =========> =========> =========> =========> ==========

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ,___

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

Re reducing inflammation, DR W recommended a book, Arthritis RX, by Vijay

Vad...very good, informative.

Debb

Re: rheumatic New/Old and Effective RA Treatment

> > > > > rheumatic@grou> > ps.com <mailto:rheumatic%> >

> > > 40groups.> > com>

> > > >

> > > > > > Hi Amy,

> > > > > > You certainly responded in a hurry.

> > > > > > Your questions:

> > > > > > 1) The hormone drops are available from most any

> > > > > > compounding pharmacy. We get ours from Weise Pharmacy,

> > > ville, FL

> > > > > > 2) A doctor has to prescribe the sublinqual drops.

> > > >

> > > > > > 3) You can contact Arthritis Consulting Services

> > > (stoparthritis.> > > com)

> > > > > > for info for you and your doctor.

> > > >

> > > > > > Good Luck,

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > Amy wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hi, . I just love reading all this good news. Can you

> > > tell me

> > > > > > > where you get the hormone drops. Are these sublingual or

> > > transdermal?

> > > > > > > Is it a prescription?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > I know they are doing studies on hormones for RA, but it

> takes the

> > > > > > > medical community so long to get anywhere. I think there

> are many

> > > > > > > people that could be helped. Not everyone, but certainly

> some. Dr.

> > > > > > > Simeons writes about this hormone effect in his book called

> > > Pounds and

> > > > > > > Inches. This is a free book on the internet.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > I can vouch for having low testosterone. I'm taking

> > > testosterone cream

> > > > > > > and progesterone. One thing that had definitely been helping

> > > me lately

> > > > > > > is vitamin K. I take a bunch, and if I don't take it, pains

> > > start to

> > > > > > > come back.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Amy

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Wiesboeck wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hi Leonie,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It was nice to hear from you. It goes back to the old

> times,

> > > for us.

> > > > > > > > Fortunately, RA is a thing of the past

> > > > > > > > for nne. Although she still needs the hormone

> drops, her RA

> > > > > > > > symptoms are gone and she feels fine.

> > > > > > > > She still is lacking somewhat in energy but that may be

> > > related to

> > > > > > > > other things, and being 76 puts on some

> > > > > > > > limitations too. We like to think it should go back to

> what is

> > > > > was 10

> > > > > > > > and 20 years ago (don't we wish).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Anyway, the hormone treatment of RA (this means RA only) is

> > > > > according to

> > > > > > > > my wife's experience a dream

> > > > > > > > come true. As I mentioned earlier, there are no problematic

> > > side

> > > > > effects

> > > > > > > > and the treatment is so fast, painless and

> > > > > > > > without bad feelings. No Herx, no stomach problems, no

> immune

> > > > > issues,

> > > > > > > > nothing !! nne was so glad

> > > > > > > > to get off all the medications and pain killers. Her

> nutrition

> > > > > is on the

> > > > > > > > healthy side ( limitted dairy, very little sugar)but nothing

> > > > > extreme.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In the application of the Liefmann Protocol, the sublinqual

> > > hormone

> > > > > > > > drops are taken three times a day and as the picture

> improves

> > > > > > > > the dose is gradually reduced. After four months, she

> switched

> > > > > to twice

> > > > > > > > a day which is her present routine.

> > > > > > > > By now, she is at about 40% of the initial dose.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Similar to the AP, the treatment is guided by symptoms.

> If the

> > > > > dose is

> > > > > > > > reduced too much ,RA symptoms like

> > > > > > > > finger stiffness comes back. The ability to make a

> closed fist

> > > > > is a good

> > > > > > > > indicator.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The hormone dose is similarly guided by symptoms and

> feeling.

> > > > > There is a

> > > > > > > > list of symptoms for estrogen and

> > > > > > > > testosterone being to high or too low and it is easily

> > > corrected.

> > > > > > > > Ever since nne is on the Liefmann protocol all her lab

> > > data are

> > > > > > > > back to normal.

> > > > > > > > Osteo arthritis is also controlled by the Liefmann

> protocol !

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Now the prime question, estrogen and hormone related

> cancers. I

> > > > > > > > thoroughly studied this aspect for obvious reasons and came

> > > up with

> > > > > > > > some surprising and reassuring information. First of

> all, the

> > > > > overall

> > > > > > > > treatment of about 23,000 patients with the

> > > > > > > > Liefmann treatment showed no problems with cancer.

> > > > > > > > A literature survey revealed that testosterone has

> > > preventive and

> > > > > > > > protective properties when it comes to " female "

> > > > > > > > cancers. In a study at the Lousiana Menopause Clinic, 4000

> > > women

> > > > > were

> > > > > > > > treated with testosterone supplementation.

> > > > > > > > In the well documented study, the group taking testosterone

> > > had a

> > > > > > > > cancer rate of less than half (46%) than that

> > > > > > > > of the control group.

> > > > > > > > Also, RA patients (male and female) typically have a

> subnormal

> > > > > > > > testosterone level.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > To insure safety from cancer in general, nne

> applies dermal

> > > > > > > > Progesterone ( 100 mg /day) to avoid estrogen

> > > > > > > > dominance, takes DIM (di-indolylmethane) and eats many

> brassica

> > > > > > > > vegetables (broccoli) to control the 2/16 metabolite

> > > > > > > > ratio. See: http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/>

> > > hrtbreastcancer.> > >

> > > > > shtml

> > > > > > > <http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer.> > > shtml>

> > > > > > > > <http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer.> > >

> shtml

> > > > > > > <http://www.tahoma-> clinic.com/> hrtbreastcancer.> > >

> shtml>>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Leonie, being in Australia it would be best if you find a

> > > > > cooperative

> > > > > > > > doctor (your family doctor is probably the best choice,

> > > > > > > > rheumatologists are the worst) who is willing to help

> you and

> > > > > contact

> > > > > > > > stoparthritis.> > > com for info. They will work with your

> > > > > > > > doctor and provide all the info he/she needs.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Good luck,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ============> > > =========> =========> =========> =========>

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