AP side effects

[Guest guest]

In certain diseases like scleroderma, dermatomyositis. etc. rashes and

itching can be the result of a Herxheimer reaction - especially during the

early part of this therapy. Check out the FAQ on www.rheumatic.org for

further information.

Ethel

rheumatic AP side effects

> Hi all,

>

> I've been taking doxy 100mg/day since may. I read the info on herxing. I

> have a scaley rash on my hands. At first my hands get bright red and then

> scaley and itchy. I also have huge blisters on my toes and hands. at

first I

> thought it was a sun reaction like an extreme burn, but now I'm not so

sure. My

> joint pain is getting worse and i was expecting that, but this skin thing

is a

> mystery. I'm going to make a dermotologist appt. I was just wondering if

> anyone has had a similar reaction from AP. I'm thinking about cutting the

doxy

> to m,w, and fri. Any thoughts? Best wishes of health and happiness to

all.

>

> Jodi rauch

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Leonie,

please hang in there. I have been on the AP program for about six months and

some of them have not been that easy, but I have had some good results which are

small steps. You have been ill for a long time, so this wil take a time to get

better.

I pray for you,

Eva

leonie cent <leoniecent@...> wrote:

Hello all, i know about the side effects of AP, but how long do they

last ? my joints are painful and it's hard to sleep and also walk. they weren't

like that before, and i wasn't even on any DMARDs or anything, just 200mg

celebrex at night which i still take, although it doesn't seem to do much

anymore. i realise results come slowly and it's wise to be patient, but aside

from that i wonder how long i have to be in pain from this crappy drug. i don't

care how good mino is, i hate the stuff and am not looking forward to taking it

for all eternity.

best wishes to all,

~Leonie (Australia)

leoniecent@...

[Guest guest]

Leonie,

Several months ago you asked me to tell my AP story. I couldn't respond at

the time because I was in the midst of working on National Board

certification.

The last 9 months of my life have been crazy -- creating a portfolio of

4 written entries (56 pages in all) and 2 videotaped lessons, then studying

for

the NB assessment in June, all while I was also doing my regular job as a

special ed teacher, and being a wife and mother....like I said, CRAZY!!

Anyway, I made a mental note at the time to respond to you this summer

......so --

My story began in January of 1997 when I was 42. During that month my

oldest son

had strep throat. He was diagnosed and treated with an antibiotic. I had a

very mild

sore throat at the time, but I did not think it was strep. I remember, a

week or two after

my son was sick, being at school one day and feeling like I was catching the

flu or

something. When I got home and went to put my pjs on, I found I had red

dots all

over my legs. I realized right away that I had scarlet fever (my son had it

when he was

about 4 years old, so I had seen the rash before), and I also knew that

meant that

I had strep throat. I got an antibiotic from my doctor for the strep, but

it was during

the time that I had scarlet fever that I first developed symptoms of RA. I

vividly

remembering walking up the stairs in my house with my knees aching so badly.

Then one day I woke up and my knees weren't aching, but I had pains in my

wrist, then my elbow. My " gypsy-like " joint pains kept getting worse. I

was tested for

Lupus and Lyme -- both were negative. In March I had my first rheumatoid

factor check.

I found out that my RA factor was 80, and that a normal RA factor was 20 or

below. By this

time I was seeing a rheumatologist, but he did not think I had RA because I

had no

morning stiffness. I kept going back for checks every month or two. By the

end of July

my count was up to 130. That summer I began looking for info about RA

because I

really knew nothing about it. I found Dr. Brown's book in a bookstore and

began reading

it. (I really think it was divine intervention that led me to that book

because I have only seen

it in a book store one other time in all these years.) I started reading

about Dr. B's theory

of infectious origin, and it made so much sense...it was exactly what

happened to me....

being diagnosed with anemia the previous year, the scarlet fever. the

gypsy-like joint pains.

I remember telling my husband that if I was diagnosed with RA, I was going

to try the

antibiotic protoccol. The alternative seemed to be a never-ending spiral of

pain, stronger and

stronger meds and side effects, and I did not want to go there if I could

avoid it.

By December of 1997, my RA factor was 252, and my rheumatologist

finally told me

that it was no " fluke " ...that I definitely had RA. (I think the only reason

I wasn't diagnosed

earlier was because I didn't really have any morning stiffness. We figured

out later that it was

probably because I slept on a waterbed -- kind of like sleeping on a giant

heating pad all night.)

When I talked to my rheumatologist about the AP, he was very skeptical, so

needless to say,

he wouldn't prescibe the Minocin. I was determined though, so at my next

dermatology appt,

I asked my doctor (I was being treated for mid-life acne) if I could switch

from Erythromycin

to Minocin. (A year or two before the dermatologist had prescribed Minocin

for my son's acne.)

I started taking the generic Minocycline in January -- 200 mg, twice a day

M, W, and F.

When I went to my rheumatologist in March, my RA factor had gone up 6

points. My doc

gave me a look and said that it seemed to be stabilizing, and then told me

to just keep doing

whatever I was doing. When I returned in June, it had gone up 5 points, to

263. The RA factor

was definitely stabilizing -- it had only gone up 12 points during those 6

months, as opposed to

120 points during the preceeding 6 months. I wasn't happy though, because

it wasn't going down.

It was in June of 1998 that I found the support group, and was told about

the difference between

Minocycline and Minocin (powder vs. the time release pellets). By then my

regular doctor was

prescibing my antibiotic, and she readily changed it to the Lederle

Minocin. Within 4 days

of starting the Minocin, I developed a yeast infection, so I knew right away

that it was going to

be different. In October of 98 I had my RA factor checked and it had taken

a precipitous drop

to 189. I was elated! Over the next 2 1/2 years my RA factor declined

(more) slowly while I

continued the AP....until eventually it was down to 21....yeah!! I continue

to take 100 mg of

Minocin twice a day, M, W, and F.

Leonie, I remember the Herxheimer effect. It definitely was not fun -- for

a while after I started

taking the Minocin my aches and pains intensified. I was prepared

though since I had read about

it in Dr. B's book. I tried to comfort myself by thinking of little Minocin

soldiers battling in my

joints. I don't remember how many months it took to get better, but it

did....so don't give up!

I think I'll stop now. I didn't mean to write a book. Goodnight all...and

good luck too!

On 7/18/08, leonie cent <leoniecent@...> wrote:

>

> Hello all, i know about the side effects of AP, but how long do they

> last ? my joints are painful and it's hard to sleep and also walk. they

> weren't like that before, and i wasn't even on any DMARDs or anything, just

> 200mg celebrex at night which i still take, although it doesn't seem to do

> much anymore. i realise results come slowly and it's wise to be patient, but

> aside from that i wonder how long i have to be in pain from this crappy

> drug. i don't care how good mino is, i hate the stuff and am not looking

> forward to taking it for all eternity.

>

> best wishes to all,

>

> ~Leonie (Australia)

> leoniecent@... <leoniecent%40bigpond.com>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On this same topic, I started my first week of AP with 100mg of

minocin once a day MWF. I can't say I've noticed any herx, if so

it's been a mild increase from the normal pain in my hands.

I'm considering increasing my dosage of minocin to 100mg twice a day,

MWF since the herx is almost none existant.

Do you guys think this is a valid assumtion to make a week into the

AP and good logic to follow?

Thanks,

> >

> > Hello all, i know about the side effects of AP, but how long do

they

> > last ? my joints are painful and it's hard to sleep and also

walk. they

> > weren't like that before, and i wasn't even on any DMARDs or

anything, just

> > 200mg celebrex at night which i still take, although it doesn't

seem to do

> > much anymore. i realise results come slowly and it's wise to be

patient, but

> > aside from that i wonder how long i have to be in pain from this

crappy

> > drug. i don't care how good mino is, i hate the stuff and am not

looking

> > forward to taking it for all eternity.

> >

> > best wishes to all,

> >

> > ~Leonie (Australia)

> > leoniecent@... <leoniecent%40bigpond.com>

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi leonie;

That crappy feeling is likely a " Herx " which is exactly what you

want.For a good explanation go to www.marshallprotocol.com That site

gives you help on how to sort of control the situation. .On the other

hand it could just be the progression of the disease and only you are

the one to know.

I have been herxing for years but each time it is differet in

intensity.I have no choice but to be on antibiotics as SD is eventually

fatal and usually sooner than later.My skin was so hard that I could not

even have a blood draw and today I look perfectly normal and have all

the wrinkles one should at 60.Some days the herx is hell but only when I

take the zithromax dose every 10 days.Sometimes I am very tired and

achy but it is more likely due to long working hours and lack of sleep.I

have a greenhouse business and the work is horrendous even at the best

of times so my sleep never exceeds 6 hours.Somehow I still have the

energy to keep going. Lynne G./SD

> Hello all, i know about the side effects of AP, but how long do they

> last ? my joints are painful and it's hard to sleep and also walk.

> they weren't like that before, and i wasn't even on any DMARDs or

> anything, just 200mg celebrex at night which i still take, although it

> doesn't seem to do much anymore. i realise results come slowly and

> it's wise to be patient, but aside from that i wonder how long i have

> to be in pain from this crappy drug. i don't care how good mino is, i

> hate the stuff and am not looking forward to taking it for all eternity.

>

> best wishes to all,

>

> ~Leonie (Australia)

> leoniecent@... <mailto:leoniecent%40bigpond.com>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Am I the only one with SD that found this post a little more than gloom and

doom as well as discouraging and depressing? Just what I wanted to read on my

lunch hour is a reminder that my disease is fatal, and that it will get me

SOONER than later. I don't view this disease with rose-colored glasses, but I

thought for those just starting out, and having a difficult time enough just

adjusting to the fact that they have this disease more thought should have gone

into a post like that.

Everyone should be trying to give positive input and helpful hints and

suggestions I believe.

Had to vent - been burning my butt for hours! Gail

**************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for

FanHouse Fantasy Football today.

(http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

[Guest guest]

Thank you Cooky - So glad someone sees where I and others are coming from.

Its a huge struggle we should venture through together in the most positive

light we possibly can. Thank you again. Appreciate your response.

Gail

**************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for

FanHouse Fantasy Football today.

(http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

[Guest guest]

Hi Gail,

Leonie has been on this site for a long time so she knows how bad things can

be and it does get better. BUT I agree and we should try to stress that

things get better even if we were told otherwise by doctors that do not give

antibiotics for our diseases. By the way most of the people here do tell how

good things are going to be!!!

Sometimes it's good to vent!! :-)

Cooky

_____

From: rheumatic [mailto:rheumatic ] On Behalf

Of ONYX8257@...

Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 6:22 PM

rheumatic

Subject: Re: rheumatic AP side effects

Am I the only one with SD that found this post a little more than gloom and

doom as well as discouraging and depressing? Just what I wanted to read on

my

lunch hour is a reminder that my disease is fatal, and that it will get me

SOONER than later. I don't view this disease with rose-colored glasses, but

I

thought for those just starting out, and having a difficult time enough just

adjusting to the fact that they have this disease more thought should have

gone

into a post like that.

Everyone should be trying to give positive input and helpful hints and

suggestions I believe.

Had to vent - been burning my butt for hours! Gail

**************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for

FanHouse Fantasy Football today.

(http://www.fanhouse

<http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020>

..com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

[Guest guest]

I personally would add 100mgms to what you are taking only once this week

and see how it goes. Then the next week add the other 100. Many moons ago

when I first started. I started out with a bang of all 200 mgm MWF and my

herx was horrible and long. I really hate to see people get that since it

can be eliminated by going VERY slowly.

Cooky

AP 11 years

_____

From: rheumatic [mailto:rheumatic ] On Behalf

Of Petty

Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 12:11 AM

rheumatic

Subject: rheumatic Re: AP side effects

On this same topic, I started my first week of AP with 100mg of

minocin once a day MWF. I can't say I've noticed any herx, if so

it's been a mild increase from the normal pain in my hands.

I'm considering increasing my dosage of minocin to 100mg twice a day,

MWF since the herx is almost none existant.

Do you guys think this is a valid assumtion to make a week into the

AP and good logic to follow?

Thanks,

> >

> > Hello all, i know about the side effects of AP, but how long do

they

> > last ? my joints are painful and it's hard to sleep and also

walk. they

> > weren't like that before, and i wasn't even on any DMARDs or

anything, just

> > 200mg celebrex at night which i still take, although it doesn't

seem to do

> > much anymore. i realise results come slowly and it's wise to be

patient, but

> > aside from that i wonder how long i have to be in pain from this

crappy

> > drug. i don't care how good mino is, i hate the stuff and am not

looking

> > forward to taking it for all eternity.

> >

> > best wishes to all,

> >

> > ~Leonie (Australia)

> > leoniecent@... <leoniecent%40bigpond.com>

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Doesn't everybody know that S/D is a terminal disease.  It was the first thing

that I was told when I was diagnosed and then they said they could keep me

comfortable during my dying process.   That made me want to prove them wrong all

the more.  I took it as a challenge and now three years later I am well again. 

Every doc will tell you that it is terminal and it can be.   But we know that

with antibiotics we can, if not cure the disease, at least arrest it and put us

into remission.  That is what this site is about. Knowing the truth and being

able to share what we learn.  Turn those gloom and doom thoughts into something

to fight for.  I and many others are proving these naysayers wrong.  That is the

delightful part.    Cheer up!  It is summer and there are lots of wonderful

things out there to do and people to meet and so much life around us.  We are

not dead yet, so let's enjoy the time we have.  Some day we will all be dead, so

what.  We are mortal beings.

Nobody gets out of this world alive.  But we can live to the hilt if we want to

while we can.  Best to all of you, Dolores

From: ONYX8257@... <ONYX8257@...>

Subject: Re: rheumatic AP side effects

rheumatic

Date: Saturday, July 19, 2008, 6:21 PM

Am I the only one with SD that found this post a little more than gloom and

doom as well as discouraging and depressing? Just what I wanted to read on my

lunch hour is a reminder that my disease is fatal, and that it will get me

SOONER than later. I don't view this disease with rose-colored glasses, but I

thought for those just starting out, and having a difficult time enough just

adjusting to the fact that they have this disease more thought should have gone

into a post like that.

Everyone should be trying to give positive input and helpful hints and

suggestions I believe.

Had to vent - been burning my butt for hours! Gail

************ **Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for

FanHouse Fantasy Football today.

(http://www.fanhouse .com/fantasyaffa ir?ncid=aolspr00 050000000020)

[Guest guest]

Hi Leonie, I'm a newbie here.

I read your post and I'm wondering if your MD has checked you for other

infections. I think

it was in Ganger and Lange's book (?) where I read that response can be poor if

other

infections are not knocked back too---yeast, viruses, etc.

Also, is your MD checking your hormone levels? Thyroid, sex hormones, and

adrenals?

Wishing you the best,

[Guest guest]

I will try that Cooky and thanks for the advice!

Out of curiousity since you have been on AP for 11 years, what is

your dosage right now?

> > >

> > > Hello all, i know about the side effects of AP, but how long do

> they

> > > last ? my joints are painful and it's hard to sleep and also

> walk. they

> > > weren't like that before, and i wasn't even on any DMARDs or

> anything, just

> > > 200mg celebrex at night which i still take, although it doesn't

> seem to do

> > > much anymore. i realise results come slowly and it's wise to be

> patient, but

> > > aside from that i wonder how long i have to be in pain from

this

> crappy

> > > drug. i don't care how good mino is, i hate the stuff and am

not

> looking

> > > forward to taking it for all eternity.

> > >

> > > best wishes to all,

> > >

> > > ~Leonie (Australia)

> > > leoniecent@ <leoniecent%40bigpond.com>

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Well, I'm not on any Minocin right now. I ran out last month. I called my

doc fro a script and sent info to Canada to register to get meds. As soon as

they come in I will take 100mgms MWF(and start slowly).again. I goof off

taking them periodically. Right now the bottom of my feet hurt and I am

wondering if it's RA related or just summer heat. I have also been wearing

sandals with no support. This is one of the first symptoms I remember before

the traveling pain started.

If I don't get more pain on starting again and my feet stop hurting I will

go back to M & F. I play around with dosages.getting cocky since I feel OK.

Cooky

_____

From: rheumatic [mailto:rheumatic ] On Behalf

Of Petty

Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 3:48 PM

rheumatic

Subject: rheumatic Re: AP side effects

I will try that Cooky and thanks for the advice!

Out of curiousity since you have been on AP for 11 years, what is

your dosage right now?

[Guest guest]

Hello,

I'm feeling confused about the side effects and don't know what to

do. How does one know whether symptoms are just the usual die-off,

or if it's the candida going nuts ? I am terrified of getting

candida overgrowth as then i will have to go off AP and onto some

other stoopid drugs like TNF therapy or something. I have a

prescription for Nilstat (anti-fungal) pills, and i believe the doc

expected me to take them concurrently with minocin. Does everyone

else take anti-fungals with the AP ? I feel like a flippin walking

chemist shop at the moment.

The reason i think my candida is going nuts, is cos i have a

full/dizzy feeling in my head which sometimes goes into a headache, a

crook gut and also the " itchies " are starting to come on in my nether

regions. Is that candida or just die-off of mycoplasmas etc ?

I'm trying to get off some of the drugs I'm on, but it seems i need

more and more. I also take heaps of top quality probiotics and watch

my diet to exclude sugars and carbs. Actually, I'm on a combo of the

anti-candida diet and Gut and Psychology Syndrome diet. I do cheat a

bit by eating a few pieces of dried fruit, which i guess doesn't help

but sometimes you need to stay sane.

Does anyone have any ideas ?

all the best,

Leonie

[Guest guest]

Hopefully someone else will answer too, because I get the itchies even

without antibiotics. In case it helps, I have been able to fix my

itchies with probiotics.

Amy

mumpup2000 wrote:

>

> Hello,

> I'm feeling confused about the side effects and don't know what to

> do. How does one know whether symptoms are just the usual die-off,

> or if it's the candida going nuts ? I am terrified of getting

> candida overgrowth as then i will have to go off AP and onto some

> other stoopid drugs like TNF therapy or something. I have a

> prescription for Nilstat (anti-fungal) pills, and i believe the doc

> expected me to take them concurrently with minocin. Does everyone

> else take anti-fungals with the AP ? I feel like a flippin walking

> chemist shop at the moment.

>

> The reason i think my candida is going nuts, is cos i have a

> full/dizzy feeling in my head which sometimes goes into a headache, a

> crook gut and also the " itchies " are starting to come on in my nether

> regions. Is that candida or just die-off of mycoplasmas etc ?

>

> I'm trying to get off some of the drugs I'm on, but it seems i need

> more and more. I also take heaps of top quality probiotics and watch

> my diet to exclude sugars and carbs. Actually, I'm on a combo of the

> anti-candida diet and Gut and Psychology Syndrome diet. I do cheat a

> bit by eating a few pieces of dried fruit, which i guess doesn't help

> but sometimes you need to stay sane.

>

> Does anyone have any ideas ?

>

> all the best,

> Leonie

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am taking mino and nizoral (anti-fungal) at the same time, plus I am taking

the probiotic every day and have no problem. I am on a gluten-free diet. Try not

to use to much sweet stuff. I love fresh fruit so this is how I get the sweet

stuff.

Take care,

Eva

mumpup2000 <leoniecent@...> wrote:

Hello,

I'm feeling confused about the side effects and don't know what to

do. How does one know whether symptoms are just the usual die-off,

or if it's the candida going nuts ? I am terrified of getting

candida overgrowth as then i will have to go off AP and onto some

other stoopid drugs like TNF therapy or something. I have a

prescription for Nilstat (anti-fungal) pills, and i believe the doc

expected me to take them concurrently with minocin. Does everyone

else take anti-fungals with the AP ? I feel like a flippin walking

chemist shop at the moment.

The reason i think my candida is going nuts, is cos i have a

full/dizzy feeling in my head which sometimes goes into a headache, a

crook gut and also the " itchies " are starting to come on in my nether

regions. Is that candida or just die-off of mycoplasmas etc ?

I'm trying to get off some of the drugs I'm on, but it seems i need

more and more. I also take heaps of top quality probiotics and watch

my diet to exclude sugars and carbs. Actually, I'm on a combo of the

anti-candida diet and Gut and Psychology Syndrome diet. I do cheat a

bit by eating a few pieces of dried fruit, which i guess doesn't help

but sometimes you need to stay sane.

Does anyone have any ideas ?

all the best,

Leonie

[Guest guest]

,

Hi try taking malic acid for the aching.

You may need something stronger than ibuprophen. See if your doc will order

Ultram. It is not a narcotic but they say it can be habit forming so it's a

prescription. If you are in the US try advil OTC instead of ibuprophen.

REALLY IMPORTANT..Cut back on the Minocin if you think you are herxing. If

you had the old books I had long ago you would see doc used to stop

antibiotics for a few days to stop a herx. According to what I have read you

should not be in such pain ever. Go back on the rheumatic site and read the

instruction page again. You may find something there you have forgotten.

Itch.try monostat or another vag antifungal and use it every other day and

stop when the itch stops.

In the first year I felt like screaming a lot of times. It seemed like I

would never feel better. I cried a lot. Stay with it. it will get better.

Hope you feel better.

Cooky

Me too to much of this. I have been on Minocin for almost a year, but

for the last two months I have taken Clindamycin twice a week. I

guess I'm herxing, but it's not like a flu. Everything hurts--hands,

lower back, elbows, knees. My head feels weird, and I too I have the

itchies in my nether regions and sometimes other places, and I am

taking an anti-fungal (Diflucan). I also take ibuprofen every day

(only one though I need more) 'cause I can't take the pain. Like

Leonie, I feel I am taking too many pills, and I wonder how long this

will go on! I feel like screaming at the moment!!

[Guest guest]

Are you saying that the pain in my hands and elbows could be a herx and maybe I

should go on MWF with the minocin and maybe take the nizoral on T TH S to maybe

stop the herx? I am so confused about all that?

Thanks,

Eva

C Stonkey <cookee1@...> wrote:

,

Hi try taking malic acid for the aching.

You may need something stronger than ibuprophen. See if your doc will order

Ultram. It is not a narcotic but they say it can be habit forming so it's a

prescription. If you are in the US try advil OTC instead of ibuprophen.

REALLY IMPORTANT..Cut back on the Minocin if you think you are herxing. If

you had the old books I had long ago you would see doc used to stop

antibiotics for a few days to stop a herx. According to what I have read you

should not be in such pain ever. Go back on the rheumatic site and read the

instruction page again. You may find something there you have forgotten.

Itch.try monostat or another vag antifungal and use it every other day and

stop when the itch stops.

In the first year I felt like screaming a lot of times. It seemed like I

would never feel better. I cried a lot. Stay with it. it will get better.

Hope you feel better.

Cooky

Me too to much of this. I have been on Minocin for almost a year, but

for the last two months I have taken Clindamycin twice a week. I

guess I'm herxing, but it's not like a flu. Everything hurts--hands,

lower back, elbows, knees. My head feels weird, and I too I have the

itchies in my nether regions and sometimes other places, and I am

taking an anti-fungal (Diflucan). I also take ibuprofen every day

(only one though I need more) 'cause I can't take the pain. Like

Leonie, I feel I am taking too many pills, and I wonder how long this

will go on! I feel like screaming at the moment!!

[Guest guest]

You know I just increased my clindamycin, but I cut back on the Minocin because

M/P warned me that herxing could become intolerable.  So, I am back down to 25

mg of Minocin and 3/4 of a 150 capsule of Clindamycin.  And yes, I don't feel as

well as I did before so I know I am herxing as I am more tired and achy since I

started that.  What helps me through the herxes is the Benicar.  I take that

every 6 hrs and put an extra one under my tongue for faster relief.  I don't

like taking pain meds as all they do is mask the pain and most are addictive in

the long run. I, too feel like I should turn into a rattle from so many pills. 

But in the long run I am much better for having started first on A/P and then on

M/P.  After my herxes settle down, then I will start increasing the Mino again, 

I buy these empty gel caps at the Health Food Stores and spend some time each

week making up the desired amount of capsule that I need.  The 150 mg caps of

Clindamycin, I pour into two gel caps and then I pour those two gel caps into

two more gel caps making 4 even capsules of the 150 mg capsule I started out

with.  That is how I started out the M/P.  Did the same with Minocin.  I

originally had 100mg of Minocin, then I asked the doc for 50 mg.  That was

easier to pour in half as they are pelleted instead of the powder.  I experiment

a lot with the doses and it is working for me. My herxes are kept at tolerable

levels and my progress seems to progress forwarded, as predicted.  It is a lot

of work staying, keeping  and getting healthier as compared to the

alternative.I don't ever want to go back to 2005 when they said I had no hope

and I was on such a downward spiral that my family was really scared.  They all

thought the docs were wrong and I was dying of cancer.  I have Lynne G. to thank

for getting me out of that.  I followed her wisdom filled advice and surpassed

all her expectations.  Even

she was so pleased at how well I responded to treatment.  Within 6-8 months. I

was a new person again.  Oh!  a sense of humor in all this goes a long way. 

Watch cartoons and rent the old comedies.  Laughter is good for the soul.  I

don't know how but it is healing to laugh.  The best to you and your family.

Dolores 

,

Hi try taking malic acid for the aching.

You may need something stronger than ibuprophen. See if your doc will order

Ultram. It is not a narcotic but they say it can be habit forming so it's a

prescription. If you are in the US try advil OTC instead of ibuprophen.

REALLY IMPORTANT..Cut back on the Minocin if you think you are herxing. If

you had the old books I had long ago you would see doc used to stop

antibiotics for a few days to stop a herx. According to what I have read you

should not be in such pain ever. Go back on the rheumatic site and read the

instruction page again. You may find something there you have forgotten.

Itch.try monostat or another vag antifungal and use it every other day and

stop when the itch stops.

In the first year I felt like screaming a lot of times. It seemed like I

would never feel better. I cried a lot. Stay with it. it will get better.

Hope you feel better.

Cooky

Me too to much of this. I have been on Minocin for almost a year, but

for the last two months I have taken Clindamycin twice a week. I

guess I'm herxing, but it's not like a flu. Everything hurts--hands,

lower back, elbows, knees. My head feels weird, and I too I have the

itchies in my nether regions and sometimes other places, and I am

taking an anti-fungal (Diflucan). I also take ibuprofen every day

(only one though I need more) 'cause I can't take the pain. Like

Leonie, I feel I am taking too many pills, and I wonder how long this

will go on! I feel like screaming at the moment!!

[Guest guest]

Actually I just re read you first email and maybe you want to cut back on

the Clindy if you were not having this kind of pain when taking only the

Minocin.

Are you taking Diflucan or Nizoral? There is a difference in the amount of

liver damage.

If you just started the anti fungal they can cause a herx also so cut back

on that instead of the Clindy.

In other words what ever you started when this new pain started cut back

till you are feeling OK again.

Cooky

_____

From: rheumatic [mailto:rheumatic ] On Behalf

Of Eva Holloway

Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 5:46 PM

rheumatic

Subject: RE: rheumatic AP side effects

Are you saying that the pain in my hands and elbows could be a herx and

maybe I should go on MWF with the minocin and maybe take the nizoral on T TH

S to maybe stop the herx? I am so confused about all that?

_

[Guest guest]

If you haven't already tried it, you should try magnesium citrate.

Magnesium and calcium share right and left cell receptors. Calcium

contracts muscles (e.g. heart muscle), while magnesium relaxes the.

Magnesium citrate is well known to help with night time feet & calf

cramps.

It would be an inexpensive experiment to see if it helps you. Just try

a low dose of 100mg - 200mg. The citrate form works fast, & you should

get a benefit in 15 minutes.

The magnesium citrate needs to be in dry form, because the liquid form

is made to clean out the colon rather than to be absorbed. Do not

bother with magnesium oxide in any form, because that too is not well

absorbed. Mag oxide is for constipation relief & will bind to water &

blow right on through.

The absorption form of dry citrate is one of the best forms for

absorption - which is what you want to try. If you want a URL

reference for this, just let me know.

Amy

mike rosner wrote:

>

> Hi , These are great ideas. Thanks for putting them out

> there. Now I have a question for any one out there with this

> problem. My feet and legs love to cramp especially at night when I am

> just getting cozy in bed and preparing for a good nights sleep. I

> know this is a herx and so I'm not worried knowing this will go away

> eventually. But, other than a heating pad to warm the sheets, warm

> booties and a massage with muscle cream like Ben Gay, what other

> suggestions can anyone share with me. These cramps often rob me of a

> good nights sleep and I end up on the computer at 1 a.m. asking these

> questions. ~~~~Thanks in advance for suggestions~~~~Dolores

> .

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Amy, Yes please send the info on the citrate.  I would do anything not to be

awakened after I was asleep by these horrible pains and cramps in my feet, toes

and lower legs.  It ruins my sleep for the whole night.  More news on the Mag

citrate.  How do you take a powder.

>

> Hi , These are great ideas. Thanks for putting them out

> there. Now I have a question for any one out there with this

> problem. My feet and legs love to cramp especially at night when I am

> just getting cozy in bed and preparing for a good nights sleep. I

> know this is a herx and so I'm not worried knowing this will go away

> eventually. But, other than a heating pad to warm the sheets, warm

> booties and a massage with muscle cream like Ben Gay, what other

> suggestions can anyone share with me. These cramps often rob me of a

> good nights sleep and I end up on the computer at 1 a.m. asking these

> questions. ~~~~Thanks in advance for suggestions~ ~~~Dolores

> .

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi amy, I'm waiting to hear more about this dry form.  Thank you, Dolores

>

> Hi , These are great ideas. Thanks for putting them out

> there. Now I have a question for any one out there with this

> problem. My feet and legs love to cramp especially at night when I am

> just getting cozy in bed and preparing for a good nights sleep. I

> know this is a herx and so I'm not worried knowing this will go away

> eventually. But, other than a heating pad to warm the sheets, warm

> booties and a massage with muscle cream like Ben Gay, what other

> suggestions can anyone share with me. These cramps often rob me of a

> good nights sleep and I end up on the computer at 1 a.m. asking these

> questions. ~~~~Thanks in advance for suggestions~ ~~~Dolores

> .

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dolores - The info from this page ( & others) show mag lactate has

highest bioavailability. However, if you look at the chart, you will

see that there is a fairly small difference between citrate and

lactate. Oxide is the worst for absorption.

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/magnesium.asp

*The amount of elemental magnesium in a compound and its bioavailability

influence the effectiveness of the magnesium supplement.*

Bioavailability refers to the amount of magnesium in food, medications,

and supplements that is absorbed in the intestines and ultimately

available for biological activity in your cells and tissues. Enteric

coating of a magnesium compound can decrease bioavailability [29

<http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/magnesium.asp#en29>]. In a study that

compared four forms of magnesium preparations, results suggested lower

bioavailability of magnesium oxide, with significantly higher and equal

absorption and bioavailability of magnesium chloride and magnesium

lactate [30 <http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/magnesium.asp#en30>]. This

supports the belief that both the magnesium content of a dietary

supplement and its bioavailability contribute to its ability to replete

deficient levels of magnesium.

This page compares the difference between oxide & citrate form:

http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/abstract/9/1/48

Thus, magnesium citrate was more^ soluble and bioavailable than

magnesium oxide.

So, you can take lactate form if you want, but I've never seen it on the

shelf. The reason you should not take a liquid citrate form, is because

the citrate has been tightly bound with a liquid & this interferes with

absorption. This is why you get the liquid mag citrate before a

colonoscopy.

Amy

mike rosner wrote:

>

> Hi amy, I'm waiting to hear more about this dry form. Thank you, Dolores

>

>

[Guest guest]

*One thing about calcium & magnesium is that too much of one will shove

out the other. They need a balance. The most common recommendation is

2:1 ratio (meaning 2 parts calcium to 1 part magnesium). This will

vary, & some will say 1:1 ratio. Here's a page about some of that, &

I've copied two sentences from this page & pasted below.

http://www.acu-cell.com/acn.html

Calcium & Magnesium:* Both elements share left / right-sided cell

receptors and are essential to

human health.

While calcium affects muscle contractions, magnesium balances that

effect and relaxes the muscles

Also,

If you aren't taking getting calcium from supplements or diet, then the

body takes it from bones, etc, so that your blood calcium level stays in

a range to make it available to heart & organs.

Amy

\

mike rosner wrote:

>

> Hi amy, I'm waiting to hear more about this dry form. Thank you, Dolores

>

>