RE: HLBA 27 positive, To cooky

[Guest guest]

Immune modifier means it corrects (or improves)the

immune function.

--- C Stonkey <cookee1@...> wrote:

> So what is an immune modifier? I think its something

> that is made up to

> cover them using it.

>

>

>

> cooky

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: rheumatic

> [mailto:rheumatic ] On Behalf

> Of soheila A

> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 3:59 PM

> rheumatic

> Subject: Re: rheumatic HLBA 27 positive

>

>

>

> I heard from Dr. whitmann that minocin is immune

> modifier.

> soheila

> --- DEBBIE GIBSON <Debbullwinkle@

> <mailto:Debbullwinkle%40fuse.net>

> fuse.net> wrote:

>

> > DR. W told me once that minocin was an immune

> > " modifier " .....hope this helps..

> > Debbie in Cincinnati

> > Re: rheumatic HLBA 27 positive

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Hi, gang,

> > >

> > > I have been told, by Dr. Whitman (who many

> > people on this list go to)

> > > that Minocin is, among other things, an

> > immuno-suppressant. What is

> > > wrong with that?

> > > I have also seen it listed that way on a web

> > site about " autoimmune "

> > > diseases, on a list with others that we know to

> > be far more

> > > problematic. I find that my seronegative

> > arthritis is much more under

> > > control (though not yet in remission), after a

> > year on Minocin and

> > > some Zithromax.

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > _._,___

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well Methotrexate, enbrel, cortisone and the others all kill the immune

system. They do this so your body doesn't (according to them) keep fighting

your body which in turn (they say) is what causes the pain, inflammation and

deformaties. And they do modify the disease.

Minocin on the other hand does not kill the immune system. It is an

antibiotic. It kills mycoplasma. That is why even tho many people take

Minocin their (ill adept) rheumatologists prescribe Cortisone and Metho

trexate, etc to decrease the inflammation and as above, because they do not

believe in the mycoplasma theory. Therefore is it correct to say Minocin is

an innune system modifier in the same context.? I don't think so but what do

you all think.But yet it is a disease modifier as are all the rest.

Cooky

PS I love this discussion!

_____

From: rheumatic [mailto:rheumatic ] On Behalf

Of soheila A

Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 4:47 PM

rheumatic

Subject: RE: rheumatic HLBA 27 positive, To cooky

Immune modifier means it corrects (or improves)the

immune function.

--- C Stonkey <cookee1comcast (DOT) <mailto:cookee1%40comcast.net> net> wrote:

> So what is an immune modifier? I think its something

> that is made up to

> cover them using it.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

O.K. kids;

Minocin is an antibiotic made to kill bacteria. It kills

bacteria,good and bad and that is why it is so important to take

probiotics.It is the third generation of Tetracycline and Doxycycline is

a second generation.Each is an improvement on the last and soon there

will be a 4th that I hear will be quite expensive.

At high doses it is immunosuppressive but not to the point that

your immune system cannot function.At low doses and pulsed it kills

more micoplasma and allows your own immune system tokill them also, it

is their decomposing bodies that cause herxes. This does not happen when

one uses an antibiotic to kill a simple bacteria.You have to remember

that micos are not pure bacteria but sort of a cross between a bacteria

and a virus and are cell wall defitient wheras bacteria are not.They can

colonise every cell in your body including the immune cells...bacteria

cannot.This is one of the reasons that the antiviral Plaquenil often

helps for a while. Micoplasma replicate very slowly,bacteria do not,just

ask anyone who might have had flesh eating disease.These guys move at

lightening speed

There are around 150 known types of micoplasma and not everyone

react to the same antibiotic so that is why you can reach a plateau and

not improve until you add the correct antibiotic that is needed for

whichever mico is still in your system.The nice thing about minocin(and

only minocin) is that it slows down the replication of some of the

micos.And for those with Scleroderma it iacts as an

anti-collagenese.Right now I would early love to have a little collagen

left in my skin.The SD collagen left a few years ago along with what

should be my normal amount.UGGGGG! Lynne

> Well Methotrexate, enbrel, cortisone and the others all kill the immune

> system. They do this so your body doesn't (according to them) keep

> fighting

> your body which in turn (they say) is what causes the pain,

> inflammation and

> deformaties. And they do modify the disease.

>

> Minocin on the other hand does not kill the immune system. It is an

> antibiotic. It kills mycoplasma. That is why even tho many people take

> Minocin their (ill adept) rheumatologists prescribe Cortisone and Metho

> trexate, etc to decrease the inflammation and as above, because they

> do not

> believe in the mycoplasma theory. Therefore is it correct to say

> Minocin is

> an innune system modifier in the same context.? I don't think so but

> what do

> you all think.But yet it is a disease modifier as are all the rest.

>

> Cooky

>

> PS I love this discussion!

>

> _____

>

> From: rheumatic <mailto:rheumatic%40>

> [mailto:rheumatic

> <mailto:rheumatic%40>] On Behalf

> Of soheila A

> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 4:47 PM

> rheumatic <mailto:rheumatic%40>

> Subject: RE: rheumatic HLBA 27 positive, To cooky

>

> Immune modifier means it corrects (or improves)the

> immune function.

>

> --- C Stonkey <cookee1comcast (DOT) <mailto:cookee1%40comcast.net> net> wrote:

>

> > So what is an immune modifier? I think its something

> > that is made up to

> > cover them using it.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

At high doses it is immunosuppressive but not to the point that

your immune system cannot function.At

Where did you find this? And what is a high dose?

_____

From: rheumatic [mailto:rheumatic ] On Behalf

Of Lynne and Santos

Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 8:35 PM

rheumatic

Subject: Re: rheumatic HLBA 27 positive, To cooky

O.K. kids;

Minocin is an antibiotic made to kill bacteria. It kills

bacteria,good and bad and that is why it is so important to take

probiotics.It is the third generation of Tetracycline and Doxycycline is

a second generation.Each is an improvement on the last and soon there

will be a 4th that I hear will be quite expensive.

At high doses it is immunosuppressive but not to the point that

your immune system cannot function.At low doses and pulsed it kills

more micoplasma and allows your own immune system tokill them also, it

is their decomposing bodies that cause herxes. This does not happen when

one uses an antibiotic to kill a simple bacteria.You have to remember

that micos are not pure bacteria but sort of a cross between a bacteria

and a virus and are cell wall defitient wheras bacteria are not.They can

colonise every cell in your body including the immune cells...bacteria

cannot.This is one of the reasons that the antiviral Plaquenil often

helps for a while. Micoplasma replicate very slowly,bacteria do not,just

ask anyone who might have had flesh eating disease.These guys move at

[Guest guest]

Hi Cooky;

Did you read all the info by Amy Proal at www.bacteriality.com

Lots of info there from doctors

> At high doses it is immunosuppressive but not to the point that

> your immune system cannot function.At

>

> Where did you find this? And what is a high dose?

>

> _____

>

> From: rheumatic <mailto:rheumatic%40>

> [mailto:rheumatic

> <mailto:rheumatic%40>] On Behalf

> Of Lynne and Santos

> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 8:35 PM

> rheumatic <mailto:rheumatic%40>

> Subject: Re: rheumatic HLBA 27 positive, To cooky

>

> O.K. kids;

> Minocin is an antibiotic made to kill bacteria. It kills

> bacteria,good and bad and that is why it is so important to take

> probiotics.It is the third generation of Tetracycline and Doxycycline is

> a second generation.Each is an improvement on the last and soon there

> will be a 4th that I hear will be quite expensive.

> At high doses it is immunosuppressive but not to the point that

> your immune system cannot function.At low doses and pulsed it kills

> more micoplasma and allows your own immune system tokill them also, it

> is their decomposing bodies that cause herxes. This does not happen when

> one uses an antibiotic to kill a simple bacteria.You have to remember

> that micos are not pure bacteria but sort of a cross between a bacteria

> and a virus and are cell wall defitient wheras bacteria are not.They can

> colonise every cell in your body including the immune cells...bacteria

> cannot.This is one of the reasons that the antiviral Plaquenil often

> helps for a while. Micoplasma replicate very slowly,bacteria do not,just

> ask anyone who might have had flesh eating disease.These guys move at

>

>

[Guest guest]

From the perspective that the 'immune system' is not monolithic; it has many

components but it has been suggested that 80% of the immune system is located in

the gut.

Antibiotics do not directly suppress immune function, but in killing off many of

the intestinal flora--which act as a part of the immune system, including a

'library' to keep helper cells refreshed--we are taking down portions of our

immune system, albeit on a temporary basis.  As others have said, while taking

antibiotics it is important to use some probiotics or yoghurt to replenish

selected friendly bacteria. 

There are over 200 named bacteria (enterobacteriaceae), 3000 viruses, several

protistae, fungi, and other residents that are all affected by what we eat and

the drugs we take.

At least a dozen of the identified bacteria are known to be arthritogenic, that

is one reason we are all concerned with 'leaky gut' and antibiotics can, on a

temporary basis, strip away the bacterial substrate, or mucosa, and expose

lesions.  I believe that this is more common than 'Herxing,' and it is a very

confusing mix of symptoms we get as the result of trying to fix our

disease--like the game of 'whack-a-Mole.'

Regards,

From: C Stonkey <cookee1@...>

Subject: RE: rheumatic HLBA 27 positive, To cooky

rheumatic

Date: Friday, June 20, 2008, 7:01 PM

At high doses it is immunosuppressive but not to the point that

your immune system cannot function.At

Where did you find this? And what is a high dose?

_____

From: rheumatic@grou ps.com [mailto:rheumatic@grou ps.com] On Behalf

Of Lynne and Santos

Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 8:35 PM

rheumatic@grou ps.com

Subject: Re: rheumatic HLBA 27 positive, To cooky

O.K. kids;

Minocin is an antibiotic made to kill bacteria. It kills

bacteria,good and bad and that is why it is so important to take

probiotics.It is the third generation of Tetracycline and Doxycycline is

a second generation.Each is an improvement on the last and soon there

will be a 4th that I hear will be quite expensive.

At high doses it is immunosuppressive but not to the point that

your immune system cannot function.At low doses and pulsed it kills

more micoplasma and allows your own immune system tokill them also, it

is their decomposing bodies that cause herxes. This does not happen when

one uses an antibiotic to kill a simple bacteria.You have to remember

that micos are not pure bacteria but sort of a cross between a bacteria

and a virus and are cell wall defitient wheras bacteria are not.They can

colonise every cell in your body including the immune cells...bacteria

cannot.This is one of the reasons that the antiviral Plaquenil often

helps for a while. Micoplasma replicate very slowly,bacteria do not,just

ask anyone who might have had flesh eating disease.These guys move at

[Guest guest]

Hi , You put the information together very nicely. It is one I can

comprehend and will save. What are the symptoms of leaky gut? Can these

symptoms be intermittent? I am on MP at the moment (second modified

phase)---4th month. I am one of the lucky ones. I don't seem to get as sick as

others, ever! Oh! I moan and groan at times, but none of my discomforts lasts

more than a day. So, I ask again. Can leaky gut symptoms appear and disappear

like other twinges of pain I get once in a while. For the most part I am fluid

in motion and free of pain most of the time. I occasionally get a bout of

diarrhea. I don't worry about it as it doesn't last long and the Anemia and

Raynauds, I presented with in my early stages of Scleroderma disappeared in the

first two months of beginning A/P. Took Minocin only for 2 years and then when

I felt I was in full remission, I added M/P because I felt it was like going up

a notch towards a cure. Most days I feel absolutely

wonderful, gleeful, excited, happy to be alive, loving people and have a very

bubbly personality which I have always had. Had a short spell of grouchiness

for the first month or so after starting the clindamycin. That has totally

dissipated now and I am back to my jolly old self. I learned from Aussie Barb

that this was probably a neuro immunopathological response. Other than that, I

have no other way of knowing whether or not I have herxing. They say when the

responses become tolerable then it is time to go on to the next step. That is

difficult for me to estimate as I feel good most of the time. Since you are so

knowledgable about the protocols and have this scientific background, do you

have any information that I can go on. Everyone else I read about is in

terrible shape. I don't know what to make of my condition. I don't even look

like I have Scleroderma, don't feel like I have Scleroderma. Yet, I was

diagnosed with systemic Scleroderma three years ago and

they added on R/A and MCTD. I was extremely ill and everyone around me swore

that I was dying of cancer. That was prior to my diagnosis. From the first

month on Minocin, I began to respond and healed very quickly. The change was

extremely fast. The doctors who predicted my early death were so amazed at my

comeback. I stopped going to Dr. T. about a year ago, because he does not

support M/P and like the others, on the second and third visit, I got the bums

rush out of his office. 5 minutes certainly wasn't worth the 8 hour ride round

trip from NY. He did give me a years worth of Minocin prescriptions and that's

what I took. Then found a nice GP who believed in M/P once I gave her the

protocol and two months worth of reading it. She also called TM and started me

on the protocol. This, I was very grateful for. I now moved to Corpus Christi

and found a clinic down the street who. although they don't know much about M/P,

or scleroderma for that matter, are willing to

write the scripts and do the blood work. Since there are no certified M/P

docs, I am winging it mostly on my own. So far, so good, no problems. Thanks

for listening. Dolores Pllease respond to me privately at

martysfolks2004@....

Merchant <anzaltopo@...> wrote:

From the perspective that the 'immune system' is not monolithic; it has many

components but it has been suggested that 80% of the immune system is located in

the gut.

Antibiotics do not directly suppress immune function, but in killing off many of

the intestinal flora--which act as a part of the immune system, including a

'library' to keep helper cells refreshed--we are taking down portions of our

immune system, albeit on a temporary basis.� As others have said, while taking

antibiotics it is important to use some probiotics or yoghurt to replenish

selected friendly bacteria.�

There are over 200 named bacteria (enterobacteriaceae), 3000 viruses, several

protistae, fungi, and other residents that are all affected by what we eat and

the drugs we take.

At least a dozen of the identified bacteria are known to be arthritogenic, that

is one reason we are all concerned with 'leaky gut' and antibiotics can, on a

temporary basis, strip away the bacterial substrate, or mucosa, and expose

lesions.� I believe that this is more common than 'Herxing,' and it is a very

confusing mix of symptoms we get as the result of trying to fix our

disease--like the game of 'whack-a-Mole.'

Regards,

From: C Stonkey <cookee1@...>

Subject: RE: rheumatic HLBA 27 positive, To cooky

rheumatic

Date: Friday, June 20, 2008, 7:01 PM

At high doses it is immunosuppressive but not to the point that

your immune system cannot function.At

Where did you find this? And what is a high dose?

_____

From: rheumatic@grou ps.com [mailto:rheumatic@grou ps.com] On Behalf

Of Lynne and Santos

Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 8:35 PM

rheumatic@grou ps.com

Subject: Re: rheumatic HLBA 27 positive, To cooky

O.K. kids;

Minocin is an antibiotic made to kill bacteria. It kills

bacteria,good and bad and that is why it is so important to take

probiotics.It is the third generation of Tetracycline and Doxycycline is

a second generation.Each is an improvement on the last and soon there

will be a 4th that I hear will be quite expensive.

At high doses it is immunosuppressive but not to the point that

your immune system cannot function.At low doses and pulsed it kills

more micoplasma and allows your own immune system tokill them also, it

is their decomposing bodies that cause herxes. This does not happen when

one uses an antibiotic to kill a simple bacteria.You have to remember

that micos are not pure bacteria but sort of a cross between a bacteria

and a virus and are cell wall defitient wheras bacteria are not.They can

colonise every cell in your body including the immune cells...bacteria

cannot.This is one of the reasons that the antiviral Plaquenil often

helps for a while. Micoplasma replicate very slowly,bacteria do not,just

ask anyone who might have had flesh eating disease.These guys move at

[Guest guest]

No, I have not. Does she give the answers to these questions? I will have to

read her article. Sorry but I still cannot get it into my head that an

antibiotic is an immunosuppressive LOL

cooky

_____

From: rheumatic [mailto:rheumatic ] On Behalf

Of Lynne and Santos

Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 12:31 AM

rheumatic

Subject: Re: rheumatic HLBA 27 positive, To cooky

Hi Cooky;

Did you read all the info by Amy Proal at www.bacteriality.com

Lots of info there from doctors

> At high doses it is immunosuppressive but not to the point that

> your immune system cannot function.At

>

> Where did you find this? And what is a high dose?

>

_

[Guest guest]

Gee I don't think there is any allopathic doctor out there who is smart

enough or even wants to comprehend this about the gut yet alone put it

together and say Minocin is an immunosuppressive because of it. Hahahah

_____

From: rheumatic [mailto:rheumatic ] On Behalf

Of Merchant

Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 1:27 AM

rheumatic

Subject: RE: rheumatic HLBA 27 positive, To cooky

From the perspective that the 'immune system' is not monolithic; it has many

components but it has been suggested that 80% of the immune system is

located in the gut.

Antibiotics do not directly suppress immune function, but in killing off

many of the intestinal flora--which act as a part of the immune system,

including a 'library' to keep helper cells refreshed--we are taking down

portions of our immune system, albeit on a temporary basis. As others have

said, while taking antibiotics it is important to use some probiotics or

yoghurt to replenish selected friendly bacteria.

There are over 200 named bacteria (enterobacteriaceae), 3000 viruses,

several protistae, fungi, and other residents that are all affected by what

we eat and the drugs we take.

At least a dozen of the identified bacteria are known to be arthritogenic,

that is one reason we are all concerned with 'leaky gut' and antibiotics

can, on a temporary basis, strip away the bacterial substrate, or mucosa,

and expose lesions. I believe that this is more common than 'Herxing,' and

it is a very confusing mix of symptoms we get as the result of trying to fix

our disease--like the game of 'whack-a-Mole.'

Regards,

_._,___