Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 Hi Lierre! Its funny that you bring that up. I just took up the sport of squash a few months ago (its a lot more fun than tennis, because squash is much more about rallies whereas tennis is much more about the serve), and was playing a person who was hindu yesterday. He was a better and more experienced player than me so he won easily. What made the match interesting was that he was borderline frial. His whole game was built around hitting drop shots - which is an old man's style of play in squash. This is because he didn't have very much power (although in squash power isn't that important), and because his joints couldn't take the pounding of longer rallies. I have no idea what the point of my story is, except that I was left feeling sad about what people do to their bodies. I suppose that in his case it was for his religion and there was no self deception about the health benefits. But we were the same age and he already had an old man's game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 Lierre and : You may want to know that Indians have extremely high rates of coronary artery disease, despite being vegetarians. Also, Abrams was right in saying that southern Indians have the shortest life spans in the world. Poverty and lack of food definitely plays a part, but Abrams concluded that it was also due to a distinct lack of animal protein in their diets that contributed to their problems. The response from your vegan friends is very typical--do anything to deny the truth! Your observations at the conference are quite revealing to say the least! For the info on Indians/heart disease, see my vegetarian paper, myth #s 5 and 6. All the best, Byrnes, PhD, RNCP http://www.PowerHealth.net >From: L <lierrekeith@...> >Reply- > >Subject: Price and vegans >Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 04:48:40 -0800 (PST) > >I wish there was more info on what Price found >regarding the plant-eating cultures--what they ate, >what went wrong with their health, etc. When I've had >this conversation with vegan/vegetarians the first >culture they point to is the Hindus in India. I use >that quote from Leon Abrams in NT about how they have >rickets etc plus the shortest lifespan in the world, >but the vegans counter with " That's because of >poverty, not a vegan diet. " > I had an interesting personal experience with all >this last year. I had just started reading NT and >Native Nutrition. I went on a 10-day meditation >retreat, at a meditation center I've been going to for >years. There's always lots of international people >there, usually from Asian countries. But this >particular course was the first time that it was >taught in both English and Hindi. So there were a >large number of Indians at this course. You know how >sometimes there's a moment where you realize that your >brain has been storing information, and it suddenly >all falls together into a pattern? Well, somewhere >around the 4th day I realized that: >1. All the Indian women were sitting in chairs around >the perimeter of the meditation hall. Particpants are >assigned a cushion on the floor, all lined up in neat >rows, but if you have a problem (knees, back, >whatever) you can sit against the wall or sit in a >chair. Usually during a course there's 2-3 people >against the wall. But I suddenly saw that ALL the >Indian women (don't know about the men--the sexes are >segregated) were sitting in chairs. >2. Then I realized that every time I had walked behind >an Indian woman--either in the lunch line or on our >way from the dorms to the meditation hall--I had seen >obvious signs of arthritis in hips and knees, the >rolling gait, stiffness, swelling etc, and had thought >how painful it looked. > But I suddenly put it all together and it gave me a >bad chill. Pottenger's cats. Every one of these women >had arthritis. In all my years of going there, I had >never seen so many chairs lined up against the back >wall. And it was all the Indian women. > Talking with some of them afterwards, most of them >had been living in the USA for 20-30 years and spoke >impeccable English. They were all vegetarians, some >more vegan. Maybe in India the dairy products aren't >pasturized, so being in America made the arthritis >come on faster and worse? It's not a scientific study, >just my observations, but it didn't look good. >Lierre > >__________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 One more thing: Price was looking for a totally vegetarian culture in his travels, but he found none. He actually said that he had not found a group buiklding and maintaining health solely on plant foods. The groups that Price encountered that were more agricultural, like several of the African tribes, were smaller than the more meat/fish eating groups. They also had more dental caries and tended to be dominated by the other groups. They were certainly healthier than modernized peoples, but in comparison to more meat-eating natives, their health was inferior. You may want to present these facts to your vegan friends and see how they respond. SCB >From: L <lierrekeith@...> >Reply- > >Subject: Price and vegans >Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 04:48:40 -0800 (PST) > >I wish there was more info on what Price found >regarding the plant-eating cultures--what they ate, >what went wrong with their health, etc. When I've had >this conversation with vegan/vegetarians the first >culture they point to is the Hindus in India. I use >that quote from Leon Abrams in NT about how they have >rickets etc plus the shortest lifespan in the world, >but the vegans counter with " That's because of >poverty, not a vegan diet. " > I had an interesting personal experience with all >this last year. I had just started reading NT and >Native Nutrition. I went on a 10-day meditation >retreat, at a meditation center I've been going to for >years. There's always lots of international people >there, usually from Asian countries. But this >particular course was the first time that it was >taught in both English and Hindi. So there were a >large number of Indians at this course. You know how >sometimes there's a moment where you realize that your >brain has been storing information, and it suddenly >all falls together into a pattern? Well, somewhere >around the 4th day I realized that: >1. All the Indian women were sitting in chairs around >the perimeter of the meditation hall. Particpants are >assigned a cushion on the floor, all lined up in neat >rows, but if you have a problem (knees, back, >whatever) you can sit against the wall or sit in a >chair. Usually during a course there's 2-3 people >against the wall. But I suddenly saw that ALL the >Indian women (don't know about the men--the sexes are >segregated) were sitting in chairs. >2. Then I realized that every time I had walked behind >an Indian woman--either in the lunch line or on our >way from the dorms to the meditation hall--I had seen >obvious signs of arthritis in hips and knees, the >rolling gait, stiffness, swelling etc, and had thought >how painful it looked. > But I suddenly put it all together and it gave me a >bad chill. Pottenger's cats. Every one of these women >had arthritis. In all my years of going there, I had >never seen so many chairs lined up against the back >wall. And it was all the Indian women. > Talking with some of them afterwards, most of them >had been living in the USA for 20-30 years and spoke >impeccable English. They were all vegetarians, some >more vegan. Maybe in India the dairy products aren't >pasturized, so being in America made the arthritis >come on faster and worse? It's not a scientific study, >just my observations, but it didn't look good. >Lierre > >__________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 > I have no idea what the point of my story is, except that I was >left feeling sad about what people do to their bodies Like doing back flips on snowboards? Lierre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2002 Report Share Posted March 22, 2002 > > I have no idea what the point of my story is, except that I was > >left feeling sad about what people do to their bodies > > Like doing back flips on snowboards? *whistles innocently* I don't think anyone with enough common sense to appreciate WAP would ever do a thing like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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