Re: Interesting adrenal situation

[Guest guest]

One question - do you have Hashi's antibodies? If so, you could have

experienced a Hashi's attack. Just another scenario to consider.

ka

>

> OK, this is weird.

>

> Basic recap: I switched to T3 in september last year. Right on schedule RT3

cleared in early december and for a little while I felt great and my temps were

perfect on 44mcg T3 plus three quarter grain natural. Then I caught the flu and

everything fell to pieces - I wasn't horribly ill with the flu, but felt like

CRAP after. I felt worse than I had before starting the change to T3. My temps

were all over the place and any kind of stress or exercise totally knocked me

out and sent my temps dropping like a stone. Of course those are classic adrenal

symptoms but because my problem had always been HIGH cortisol I wasn't really on

the lookout for low.

>

> After about 3 weeks or so my temps stabilised so I thought if the problem was

adrenal it must be getting better. But temps stayed just a bit low regardless of

raising T3. I decided the problem could be that the stress of getting the flu

had made the T4 in the natural, that I had been tolerating, turn to RT3 so I

dropped the natural about 6 weeks ago. My temps would consistently peak around

98.5 in the early afternoon and I didn't feel crap but I didn't feel right

either.

>

> Then, a couple of times a couple of weeks apart, I seemed to go temporarily

hyper - temps and heart rate shot up and I felt edgy and nervous. Both times I

cut back on the T3 but then stabilised again after a few days with exactly the

same slightly low temps and feeling just the same - tired, unmotivated and dull

most of the time. I began to think that T3 must be pooling, maybe from low

cortisol, and that every now and then my adrenals were managing to pump out a

surge of adrenaline (or cortisol) enough to send the T3 into the cells before

relapsing back into their low state.

>

> So on Val's advice I got an adrenal test, and the results were:

> Morning 9.6 (12-22)

> Noon 2.9 (5-9

> Afternoon 1 (3-7)

> Night 0.5 (1-3)

>

> Pretty low, right? Lower than I expected (I thought based on symptoms just the

afternoon and evening ones would be low) and probably low enough to warrant HC.

>

> HOWEVER, here comes the weird bit. I did the test last sunday and got the

results today. But, all this week I have been feeling 500% better! On monday my

temps were up, peaking at 98.8. Since Tuesday I've felt like I did between

clearing RT3 in december and catching the flu - completely transformed. I don't

want to speak too soon and jinx myself but it doesn't feel like those earlier

adrenaline surges (or whatever they were). And the other weird thing is that

this is on a dose of only 25mcg T3 (remember I was on 44 plus 0.75 natural when

I was doing well before).

>

> So - can adrenal fatigue be transient, lasting 8-12 weeks after a virus, and

then suddenly recover? This seems the most likely explanation. Other factors

that might be in play are that I was alone in the house for the last couple of

weeks so took the chance to completely rest. I barely left the house and when I

was at home basically just read, ate and slept. Maybe that was what I needed?

The other thing is that starting at the beginning of the year I cut carbs way

back, not that I was eating a ton of carbs before but am now on about 60-75 a

day, and alongside this cut out grains.

>

> Sorry this is long and I am posting it really because it seems an unusual

situation and so might be interesting or helpful.

>

> But also a serious question, probably for Val - as long as I am feeling good

and my temps are right, is it safe to assume I don't need to take HC, despite

those test results?

>

> Thanks, Lucy

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ka, thanks for the suggestion, yes I do have antibodies and have

considered that scenario, but all things considered I feel that this is more

likely an adrenal problem. I suspect the type of thyroiditis I have is Ord's,

rather than Hashimoto's, Ord's being more common in Europe. Both involve the

same antibodies, but the process of the disease is atrophic rather than

inflammatory in the gland, so as far as I know is not associated with Hashi's

style hyper episodes.

I could be wrong on this but it is quite hard to find material about the

difference between the two forms. Guess medical science is not that interested,

after all it's only a thyroid problem that can be perfectly cured with

synthroid!

Lucy

>

> One question - do you have Hashi's antibodies? If so, you could have

experienced a Hashi's attack. Just another scenario to consider.

>

> ka

>

>

[Guest guest]

>Sorry this is long and I am posting it really because it seems an unusual

situation and so might be interesting or helpful.

Flu in particular affects ACTH and hence stresses adrenals heavily.

THis is a trannsient condition

>But also a serious question, probably for Val - as long as I am feeling good

and my temps are right, is it safe to assume I don't need to take HC, despite

those test results?

>

Possibly not, I would give it a week seeing if the average

temperatures have stabilised and then see if you can tolerate enough

T3 to bring the average temperatures to the correct point.

If they are unstable or go unstable then testing saliva cortisol again

seems a good idea

Nick

--

for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to

www.thyroid-rt3.com

[Guest guest]

I have been hypo for 22 years but I did not have a hashimoto until a few weeks

ago my test showed I do have it.How does that work?

What does mean

" you could have experienced a Hashi's attack "

If you have a hashi isn't it all the time.By that I mean,don't we experinece the

affect of it constantly until it's cleared?

How can you have an attack of a hashi for a few weeks and then if you have not

changed anything of your treatment you dont have the problems?

Help me here,please.

Thanks

Milena

> >

> > OK, this is weird.

> >

> > Basic recap: I switched to T3 in september last year. Right on schedule RT3

cleared in early december and for a little while I felt great and my temps were

perfect on 44mcg T3 plus three quarter grain natural. Then I caught the flu and

everything fell to pieces - I wasn't horribly ill with the flu, but felt like

CRAP after. I felt worse than I had before starting the change to T3. My temps

were all over the place and any kind of stress or exercise totally knocked me

out and sent my temps dropping like a stone. Of course those are classic adrenal

symptoms but because my problem had always been HIGH cortisol I wasn't really on

the lookout for low.

> >

> > After about 3 weeks or so my temps stabilised so I thought if the problem

was adrenal it must be getting better. But temps stayed just a bit low

regardless of raising T3. I decided the problem could be that the stress of

getting the flu had made the T4 in the natural, that I had been tolerating, turn

to RT3 so I dropped the natural about 6 weeks ago. My temps would consistently

peak around 98.5 in the early afternoon and I didn't feel crap but I didn't feel

right either.

> >

> > Then, a couple of times a couple of weeks apart, I seemed to go temporarily

hyper - temps and heart rate shot up and I felt edgy and nervous. Both times I

cut back on the T3 but then stabilised again after a few days with exactly the

same slightly low temps and feeling just the same - tired, unmotivated and dull

most of the time. I began to think that T3 must be pooling, maybe from low

cortisol, and that every now and then my adrenals were managing to pump out a

surge of adrenaline (or cortisol) enough to send the T3 into the cells before

relapsing back into their low state.

> >

> > So on Val's advice I got an adrenal test, and the results were:

> > Morning 9.6 (12-22)

> > Noon 2.9 (5-9

> > Afternoon 1 (3-7)

> > Night 0.5 (1-3)

> >

> > Pretty low, right? Lower than I expected (I thought based on symptoms just

the afternoon and evening ones would be low) and probably low enough to warrant

HC.

> >

> > HOWEVER, here comes the weird bit. I did the test last sunday and got the

results today. But, all this week I have been feeling 500% better! On monday my

temps were up, peaking at 98.8. Since Tuesday I've felt like I did between

clearing RT3 in december and catching the flu - completely transformed. I don't

want to speak too soon and jinx myself but it doesn't feel like those earlier

adrenaline surges (or whatever they were). And the other weird thing is that

this is on a dose of only 25mcg T3 (remember I was on 44 plus 0.75 natural when

I was doing well before).

> >

> > So - can adrenal fatigue be transient, lasting 8-12 weeks after a virus, and

then suddenly recover? This seems the most likely explanation. Other factors

that might be in play are that I was alone in the house for the last couple of

weeks so took the chance to completely rest. I barely left the house and when I

was at home basically just read, ate and slept. Maybe that was what I needed?

The other thing is that starting at the beginning of the year I cut carbs way

back, not that I was eating a ton of carbs before but am now on about 60-75 a

day, and alongside this cut out grains.

> >

> > Sorry this is long and I am posting it really because it seems an unusual

situation and so might be interesting or helpful.

> >

> > But also a serious question, probably for Val - as long as I am feeling good

and my temps are right, is it safe to assume I don't need to take HC, despite

those test results?

> >

> > Thanks, Lucy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hashi's is an autoimmune disease which means once you have it it si

there ALL the time for life. No cure. BUT it doesn;t mean it is always

actively attacking your thyroid. When antibodies falre up it destroys

part of your thyroid gland. As this destruction takes place you can have

hyper or hypo symptoms some times quite strong ones. This happens

usually due to a chunk of thyroid being destroyed which releases the

thyroid hormones it was storing. You can have Hashi;s for years wihtout

the antibodies showing up on blood testing but it si the cause of about

9-0% of the hyopthyroid in the world and usually sooner or later the

antibodies will show in blood tetsing. It is a matter of catching them

when they are active. I had negative testingfor over 25 years til I

toook iodine which activated mine and thye went over 600 and I had a

horrible Hashi attack whick caused swellign and pain in my thyroid for 6

weeks till it stopped.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

>

>How can you have an attack of a hashi for a few weeks and then if you have not

changed anything of your treatment you dont have the problems?

The effect of Hashi's depends on the activity level of antibodies.

This is affected by the amount of stimulus the thyroid is getting

Nick

[Guest guest]

Val wrote:

>Hashi's is an autoimmune disease which means once you have it it si

>there ALL the time for life. No cure. BUT it doesn;t mean it is always

>actively attacking your thyroid. When antibodies falre up it destroys

>part of your thyroid gland. As this destruction takes place you can have

>hyper or hypo symptoms some times quite strong ones. This happens

>usually due to a chunk of thyroid being destroyed which releases the

>thyroid hormones it was storing. You can have Hashi;s for years wihtout

>the antibodies showing up on blood testing but it si the cause of about

>9-0% of the hyopthyroid in the world and usually sooner or later the

>antibodies will show in blood tetsing. It is a matter of catching them

>when they are active. I had negative testingfor over 25 years til I

>toook iodine which activated mine and thye went over 600 and I had a

>horrible Hashi attack whick caused swellign and pain in my thyroid for 6

>weeks till it stopped.

Val,

I need to disagree with you here. You are right that Hashi's is what

causes most hypoT. However, occasionally a cause can be identified,

the cause can be removed, and Hashi's resolves.

I had a TPO which was non-zero and just slightly over the threshold

when I removed gluten from my diet in June 2003. (BTW I strongly feel

the concept of a threshold, where you don't have Hashi's when you're

under, and do have it when you're over, provides a false sense of

security.) After I went gluten-free, my TPO slowly fell, going to zero

within ~18 months.

Of course my thyroid had already been mostly destroyed by then, because

it had been under attack for my entire life until 2003. But even if

your thyroid can't come back to normal, eliminating Hashi's can

eliminate some symptoms (e.g. anxiety) which it can cause on its own.

In general, finding a cause for Hashi's is very difficult. The state

of immuno-science has not progressed all that much, as far as treatment

provided to the average patient. I guess I'd have to say that I really

lucked out both in finding a solution for my Hashi's, and in deciding

not to take high doses of iodine in spite of all the hype about it from

iodine4health and Dr. Flechas. I actually took the iodine loading test,

and once I had learned I was at 70%, I decided that was good enough and

there was no point subjecting my body to a big iodine load.

[Guest guest]

" I need to disagree with you here. You are right that Hashi's is what

causes most hypoT. However, occasionally a cause can be identified,

the cause can be removed, and Hashi's resolves. "

The problem wiht this is by the time the antibodies appear oin blood testing,

often tissue damage has already begun so thi si swhy I say Hashi's cannto be

cured. I had tissue damage for over 25 years before positive antibodies showed

up btu my first doctor diagnosed me wiht Hashi's on symptoms and palpation alone

even though my antibodies were NOT visible. That 25 years of no antibodies

caused me greif many times as one Endo even took me OFF thyroi dmeds saying I

did not need them. Well that was a disaster as I have had no discernable thyroid

activity in over 30 years.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

Val wrote:

>The problem wiht this is by the time the antibodies appear oin blood testing,

>often tissue damage has already begun so thi si swhy I say Hashi's cannto be

>cured. I had tissue damage for over 25 years before positive antibodies showed

>up btu my first doctor diagnosed me wiht Hashi's on symptoms and palpation

>alone even though my antibodies were NOT visible. That 25 years of no

>antibodies caused me greif many times as one Endo even took me OFF thyroi dmeds

>saying I did not need them. Well that was a disaster as I have had no

>discernable thyroid activity in over 30 years.

Thanks for the clarification.

A major problem (which really ticks me off) is that doctors in the USA

who have skills adequate to make the diagnosis of hypothyroidism for

the first time, do not automatically follow that up with the standard

autoimmunity tests like TPO and TgAb.

So are you saying that even if most doctors did look for autoimmunity

as soon as hypoT was diagnosed, it still couldn't be " cured " (even if

a cause were found) in the sense that these patients would still end

up having to supplement thyroid hormone?

Or is this really a catch-22? That is, most doctors who even know

that autoimmunity exists, think supplemental thyroid hormone is the

only way to reduce autoimmunity, so going on thyroid hormone becomes

a foregone conclusion for everyone?

[Guest guest]

I have honestly NEVER heard of anyone wiht Hashi's being cured EVER, and

this with being on thyroid groups since the Internet began. SO I think

they came to the same conclkusion I have, that oyu treat it (only I

htink treating ti properly MIGHT possibly bring some remission) for

life. I know the first doc I went to gave me Armoru and told me ot

increase by a grain eveyr 2 weeks til I felt normal. It worked. At 3

grains I lost the weight I had gained and felt perfect. But

unfortunately he died in three years and my 25 years of Syncrap Hell began.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/