Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 The quotation towards the end of the following article grabed me, " We need to discard the notion that vitamin D affects a disease state in a simple way. " But because everybody desires simple answers, this is what is sold by some. Others, for whom simplicity is an uncomortable place, peddle discord. Examples include Vitamin C, Vitamin E; first they cure, then they don't, then they're harmful in some previously unaccountable manner. Yadda, Yadda, Yadda. Its not science, its a sitcom, and a bad one at that. And the journal headline reference below.... " Vitamin D discovery outpaces FDA decision making, " not exactly a man-bites-dog headline is it? Jeff " The reason why some people get lost in their thoughts is that it can be such unfamiliar territory for them. " Vitamin D Deficiency Study Raises New Questions About Disease And Supplements Science News Daily (Jan. 27, 2008) — Low blood levels of vitamin D have long been associated with disease, and the assumption has been that vitamin D supplements may protect against disease. However, this new research demonstrates that ingested vitamin D is immunosuppressive and that low blood levels of vitamin D may be actually a result of the disease process. Supplementation may make the disease worse. In a new report Trevor Marshall, Ph.D., professor at Australia’s Murdoch University School of Biological Medicine and Biotechnology, explains how increased vitamin D intake affects much more than just nutrition or bone health. The paper explains how the Vitamin D Nuclear Receptor (VDR) acts in the repression or transcription of hundreds of genes, including genes associated with diseases ranging from cancers to multiple sclerosis. " The VDR is at the heart of innate immunity, being responsible for expression of most of the antimicrobial peptides, which are the body’s ultimate response to infection, " Marshall said. " Molecular biology is now forcing us to re-think the idea that a low measured value of vitamin D means we simply must add more to our diet. Supplemental vitamin D has been used for decades, and yet the epidemics of chronic disease, such as heart disease and obesity, are just getting worse. " " Our disease model has shown us why low levels of vitamin D are observed in association with major and chronic illness, " Marshall added. " Vitamin D is a secosteroid hormone, and the body regulates the production of all it needs. In fact, the use of supplements can be harmful, because they suppress the immune system so that the body cannot fight disease and infection effectively. " Marshall's research has demonstrated how ingested vitamin D can actually block VDR activation, the opposite effect to that of Sunshine. Instead of a positive effect on gene expression, Marshall reported that his own work, as well as the work of others, shows that quite nominal doses of ingested vitamin D can suppress the proper operation of the immune system. It is a different metabolite, a secosteroid hormone called 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D, which activates the VDR to regulate the expression of the genes. Under conditions that exist in infection or inflammation, the body automatically regulates its production of all the vitamin D metabolites, including 25-hydroxyvitamin D, the metabolite which is usually measured to indicate vitamin D status. Vitamin D deficiency, long interpreted as a cause of disease, is more likely the result of the disease process, and increasing intake of vitamin D often makes the disease worse. " Dysregulation of vitamin D has been observed in many chronic diseases, including many thought to be autoimmune, " said J.C. Waterhouse, Ph.D., lead author of a book chapter on vitamin D and chronic disease. " We have found that vitamin D supplementation, even at levels many consider desirable, interferes with recovery in these patients. " " We need to discard the notion that vitamin D affects a disease state in a simple way, " Marshall said. " Vitamin D affects the expression of over 1,000 genes, so we should not expect a simplistic cause and effect between vitamin D supplementation and disease. The comprehensive studies are just not showing that supplementary vitamin D makes people healthier. " Journal reference: Marshall TG. Vitamin D discovery outpaces FDA decision making. Bioessays. 2008 Jan 15;30(2):173-182 [Epub ahead of print] Online ISSN: 1521-1878 Print ISSN: 0265-9247 PMID: 18200565 Adapted from materials provided by Autoimmunity Research Foundation, via AlphaGalileo. _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your " fix " . http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Dear Group, My general understanding is that a gross vitamin or mineral deficiency can make you sick. Taking a recommended daily level will cure the deficiency sickness. Taking more than than the recommended daily level does not guarantee health nor cure any specific disease. Taking excessive levels can actually be harmful. Sincerely, Harald At 08:05 AM 1/27/2008, Jeff wrote: >The quotation towards the end of the following article grabed me, > " We need to discard the notion that vitamin D affects a disease >state in a simple way. " But because everybody desires simple >answers, this is what is sold by some. Others, for whom simplicity >is an uncomortable place, peddle discord. Examples include Vitamin >C, Vitamin E; first they cure, then they don't, then they're harmful >in some previously unaccountable manner. Yadda, Yadda, Yadda. Its >not science, its a sitcom, and a bad one at that. And the journal >headline reference below... " Vitamin D discovery outpaces FDA >decision making, " not exactly a man-bites-dog headline is it? >Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 This is my understanding too. That maintaining a gross deficiency (or excess) in vitamin(s) and/or mineral(s) will cause metabolic dysregulation, and speed progression of a variety of diseases. After all, this is why we have the RDA. Correcting deficiencies might, or might not not cure it. In some cases perhaps correcting a deficiency will slow down the progression of disease. Does anyone say what they think the causes the loss cell wall structure which enables the mycoplasma to invade? Amy Harald Weiss, Technical Marketing Group wrote: > > Dear Group, > > My general understanding is that a gross vitamin or mineral > deficiency can make you sick. Taking a recommended daily level will > cure the deficiency sickness. Taking more than than the recommended > daily level does not guarantee health nor cure any specific disease. > Taking excessive levels can actually be harmful. > > Sincerely, Harald > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 > > I have been thinking about vitamin d for a while. Recently, many have been talking about the miracle of vitamin D. That it basically cures or prevent many illnesses acute as well as chronic. I understand that there aren't much natural vitamin D in food because it's only found in fatty fish, eggs, dairy, and animal fats(only if animal was rooming freely outside under the sun)and many try to avoid fatty foods anyway. But now a day, many liquids like juices, dairy, multivitamins, etc. are fortified with extra vit. D but it is still not enough? I guess it could still be insufficient because we need much more. My biggest dilemma is, those who live in hot, tropical places where most of the year sunshine is plantiful are getting what they need through the skin. So if vit.D is such a miracle, all these people with dark, wrinkled skin who spend all their lives under the sun with no sunscreen should be the healthiest, long lived people out there. But this is not the fact. I read that people in tropical countries have the same rate of flu, colds, and other illnesses and there is no difference in their longivity. Katarina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Katarina, Sue posted an excellent article on this. Did you read it? You may have misunderstood. It mentioned that dark skinned people need more sunlight to produce Vitamin D, not less. In NZ there is an " epidemic " of diabetes etc etc among Pacific Islanders. This has little to do with the sunlight they do or don't receive, but a lot more to do with the adoption of a processed food diet rather than the diet their ancestors ate. One very popular food item is tinned, salted beef, which contains a large %age of fat. It is also preserved with the sulphites and nitrites that cause colon, stomach & pancreatic cancer. Another favourite dish is known as chop suey. It is just bean threads, lots of soy sauce, shreds of cheap meat like fatty lamb flaps or skirts and perhaps onions and frozen peas, corn, and carrots. This, as well as the shift to a different latitude, has not helped their health. In American Samoa, many have adopted the SAD and included carbonated drinks with artificial sweeteners, which contribute to poor health. Please do read that article that Sue posted - it was just the best and most detailed article I have ever read. Mara From: Katarina <kkatkov@...> Subject: Re: more Vitamin D Vaccinations Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 7:48 AM > > I have been thinking about vitamin d for a while. Recently, many have been talking about the miracle of vitamin D. That it basically cures or prevent many illnesses acute as well as chronic. I understand that there aren't much natural vitamin D in food because it's only found in fatty fish, eggs, dairy, and animal fats(only if animal was rooming freely outside under the sun)and many try to avoid fatty foods anyway. But now a day, many liquids like juices, dairy, multivitamins, etc. are fortified with extra vit. D but it is still not enough? I guess it could still be insufficient because we need much more. My biggest dilemma is, those who live in hot, tropical places where most of the year sunshine is plantiful are getting what they need through the skin.. So if vit.D is such a miracle, all these people with dark, wrinkled skin who spend all their lives under the sun with no sunscreen should be the healthiest, long lived people out there. But this is not the fact. I read that people in tropical countries have the same rate of flu, colds, and other illnesses and there is no difference in their longivity. Katarina ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 well it needs to be D3 - not sure what they fortify foods wtih " I read that people in tropical countries have the same rate of flu, colds, and other illnesses " Where have you read this? Also there is much more involved than just D3 - pure water, healthy food, not being vaccinated to death. Why don't you just try D3 yourself and see how it works for you? Sheri At 07:48 AM 5/5/2009, you wrote: > > > > > >I have been thinking about vitamin d for a while. Recently, many >have been talking about the miracle of vitamin D. That it basically >cures or prevent many illnesses acute as well as chronic. I >understand that there aren't much natural vitamin D in food because >it's only found in fatty fish, eggs, dairy, and animal fats(only if >animal was rooming freely outside under the sun)and many try to >avoid fatty foods anyway. But now a day, many liquids like juices, >dairy, multivitamins, etc. are fortified with extra vit. D but it is >still not enough? I guess it could still be insufficient because we >need much more. >My biggest dilemma is, those who live in hot, tropical places where >most of the year sunshine is plantiful are getting what they need >through the skin. So if vit.D is such a miracle, all these people >with dark, wrinkled skin who spend all their lives under the sun >with no sunscreen should be the healthiest, long lived people out >there. But this is not the fact. I read that people in tropical >countries have the same rate of flu, colds, and other illnesses and >there is no difference in their longivity. > >Katarina > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 > > Katarina, > Sue posted an excellent article on this. Did you read it? You may have misunderstood. It mentioned that dark skinned people need more sunlight to produce Vitamin D, not less. In NZ there is an " epidemic " of diabetes etc etc among Pacific Islanders. This has little to do with the sunlight they do or don't receive, but a lot more to do with the adoption of a processed food diet rather than the diet their ancestors ate. Yes, i undestand that dark skinned people need even more vitamin D and those that live in hot climates supposedly get all they need from daily sun exposure, right? Unless they spend their days indoors or use liberal amounts of sunscreen with very high SPF, people living in tropical climates (even florida) should be getting enough. As far as diet goes. I spent even more time learning and investigating the truth about healthy eating than vaccines. There is as much misinformation & controversies out there about food as there are about vaccines. I happened to trust Weston A. Price foundation which empasizes the importance of traditional & natural foods. Their biggest point is that it's very important to eat animal fats including raw dairy(unless allergic). It makes sense because many important vitamins & minerals are fat saluble like vitamin A, vitamin E, vitamin D, calcium, etc. How did people living in cold climates obtain their vit.D during dark winter months before supplements were available? From eating fatty fish, eggs, using lard, dairy. I will read the article posted by Sue shortly. Katarina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Hi Katarina, here in the tropics we may still come down with common ailments. But I have found that spending some time out in the sun helps the healing process almost instantly. I spent 10 years working out in the full tropical sun with no shade whatsoever. I did not use sunscreen, and made sure I drank gallons of water. However I mainly noticed that those who used sunscreen were more inclined to not only block out the dangerous UV, but also the healthy aspects it provides. In my instance I have fared pretty well. I don't have any skin cancer concerns, and I still look younger than my age. All the years I was out in the sun, I may have picked up a cold or stomach complaint. But never did anything prevent me from working, and I was usually feeling better by the end of the day. Lifestyle has a huge impact on how we wear over the years. For all the abuse my body has taken, I feel sunlight and lots of water played a big part in combating any damage. No matter where you live, there are unhealthy lifestyles everywhere. I am just glad I live in a country where the sunlight is readily available. I think it is a much more complicated process for those who have to supplement. Fieldman At 07:48 AM 5/5/2009, you wrote: > > > > > >I have been thinking about vitamin d for a while. Recently, many >have been talking about the miracle of vitamin D. That it basically >cures or prevent many illnesses acute as well as chronic. I >understand that there aren't much natural vitamin D in food because >it's only found in fatty fish, eggs, dairy, and animal fats(only if >animal was rooming freely outside under the sun)and many try to >avoid fatty foods anyway. But now a day, many liquids like juices, >dairy, multivitamins, etc. are fortified with extra vit. D but it is >still not enough? I guess it could still be insufficient because we >need much more. >My biggest dilemma is, those who live in hot, tropical places where >most of the year sunshine is plantiful are getting what they need >through the skin. So if vit.D is such a miracle, all these people >with dark, wrinkled skin who spend all their lives under the sun >with no sunscreen should be the healthiest, long lived people out >there. But this is not the fact. I read that people in tropical >countries have the same rate of flu, colds, and other illnesses and >there is no difference in their longivity. > >Katarina > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 I forgot to mention that we have had a pretty vigorous " slip slop slap " campaign going since I was a child. Sunscreen is even compulsory in schools, and workplaces are expected to provide it. I do not know many other people who do not use it. Fieldman well it needs to be D3 - not sure what they fortify foods wtih " I read that people in tropical countries have the same rate of flu, colds, and other illnesses " Where have you read this? Also there is much more involved than just D3 - pure water, healthy food, not being vaccinated to death. Why don't you just try D3 yourself and see how it works for you? Sheri At 07:48 AM 5/5/2009, you wrote: > > > > > >I have been thinking about vitamin d for a while. Recently, many >have been talking about the miracle of vitamin D. That it basically >cures or prevent many illnesses acute as well as chronic. I >understand that there aren't much natural vitamin D in food because >it's only found in fatty fish, eggs, dairy, and animal fats(only if >animal was rooming freely outside under the sun)and many try to >avoid fatty foods anyway. But now a day, many liquids like juices, >dairy, multivitamins, etc. are fortified with extra vit. D but it is >still not enough? I guess it could still be insufficient because we >need much more. >My biggest dilemma is, those who live in hot, tropical places where >most of the year sunshine is plantiful are getting what they need >through the skin. So if vit.D is such a miracle, all these people >with dark, wrinkled skin who spend all their lives under the sun >with no sunscreen should be the healthiest, long lived people out >there. But this is not the fact. I read that people in tropical >countries have the same rate of flu, colds, and other illnesses and >there is no difference in their longivity. > >Katarina > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 > > Hi Katarina, here in the tropics we may still come down with common ailments. But I have found that spending some time out in the sun helps the healing process almost instantly. Hi , Do you mind telling us where do you live? I personally love the sun but I tend to burn pretty quickly because of my light skin. I also noticed that after going to the beach, people fall asleep in the car and feel generally tired. It seems that the sun wears people out. Katarina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 > well it needs to be D3 - not sure what they fortify foods * Fortification of food is done with D3. I remember when i was taking prenatal vitamins over 4 years ago, vitamin D2 was in my formulation and now i read that it's a bad form that causes calcification of tissues(go figure...) > " I read that people in tropical countries have the same rate of flu, > colds, and other illnesses " > Where have you read this? * I mean, people living in tropical places are in the same health as the rest of the people in the world, otherwise everyone would move to tropics. > Also there is much more involved than just D3 - pure water, healthy > food, not being vaccinated to death. > Why don't you just try D3 yourself and see how it works for you? > Sheri > *Now that summer is right around the corner in NJ, I will be sunbathing almost daily with my son. I take cod liver oil a few times a week but i am guessing it's not enough. Katarina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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