Re: finally totally off all T4 and just on T3- ONE MORE ? VAL!!

[Guest guest]

I know you said I need more, but I reduced my T3 to 6.25mcg 3x/day today. I

don't seem to be tolerating more T3. I just need to know if this is STUPID

since I've been on some kind of thyroid forever, and I don't know if my thyroid

is completely suppressed (labs in first post of thread. TSH and T4 are

suppressed, for sure) , and if you answer the questions below that'd be cool so

I can have that info to problem solve in the future.

Just found out, I CAN'T GET MY IRON IV UNTIL THE 17TH.

I feel like I felt when I went on T3 alone before and missed a week of work -

seriously way beyond brain fog - disoriented, confused, swimmy, not processing

info. It's worrisome. I know it doesn't make sense, but I can really tell

being off just a little NT. I'm not sure how to help myself other than take as

much iron as I can and keep on the HC and take some rhodiola. It seems like I'm

gonna have to miss another week of work. Surely there is something else I can

do for myself. SHOULD I GO BACK ON SOME T4? I'm confused what's going on, so

helping me tease it out is SO HELPFUL.

Thanks, Val, you're the best!

-

> >

> > What you really need is more T3 btu I am afraid to tell you to raise ti

> > till your ferritin is up better. No point takking it andhave it just sit

> > in the blood and cause issues and nto help you. So sock away some iron

> > while waiting for the IV and see if thta does nto help your energy and

> > fogginess some.

> >

> > --

> > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

> >

> > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> >

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Go through the posts for the lats couple weeks, is one having

horrid issues form lwo ferritin. Milena is also having the same ones. I

know this is hard to grasp when oyu are in a brain fogged state but the

low ferritin causes the T3 to not be able ot get to the cells but it si

differnt than just blocking it. It causes extreme anxiety and low

cortisol SYMPTOMS and I do nto think it actuall ycauses lwo cortisokl

unelss oyu keep packing in T3 and not being abke to use it. T4 is NOT

going to help this. T4 wil cause more RT3 which oyu wil then have to

deal wiht when you get th ferritin up. But go ahead I am tired of

telling peoeple we do not need T4. Mine is .2 and has been there ofr a

year.Right now my work is driving me nuts and I am booked out for a week

and a half solid, and I am feelign better than I EVER did on natural

thyroid even whne I was MUCH younger. I htink if we really needed T4 for

much of anything I would have collapsed by now.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

>Right now my work is driving me nuts and I am booked out for a week

>and a half solid, and I am feelign better than I EVER did on natural

>thyroid even whne I was MUCH younger. I htink if we really needed T4 for

>much of anything I would have collapsed by now.

Same here, I am very busy at work and need my wits about me.

My thought processes are clearer on T3 only than they ever were on

Natural and various joint aches etc are also better (though the

vitamin D may be helping those). Stamina and sleep quality are also

much better.

I am pretty sure I have " non-RT3 related " tissue resistance to thyroid

hormone. This is what caused me to need a LOT of natural in order to

feel well. Taking that large amount of natural caused the RT3 to build

up and that gave me a second layer of tissue resistance and various

nasty RT3 effects such as a hard pulse (high blood pressure) and a bit

of a tremor to my hands.

Going T3 only let me shed the RT3 which cleared on schedule. I am now

on a higher than typical dose of T3 but stable as the lack of T4

prevents any further resistance building up.

I think anyone who has resistance which is not solely due to RT3 is

going to have to stay on T3 only as the amount of Natural that they

would need to give them high enough FT3 levels to find their sweet

spot (which will be over range) would lead to an immediate RT3 buildup

and deepening resistance.

My gut feeling is that if 100mcg of T3 or less lets you feel well

after resistance clears and you have corrected Cortisol and ferritin

issues (plus vitamins D and B12 etc) then you may well be able to go

back onto Natural and be stable on it.

Those of us who need more than 100mcg of T3 a day are probably

battling " other resistance " issues and these will lead to RT3 forming

if there is T4 in the mix.

My thoughts, I've got no papers to prove it but it adds up to me.

Nick

[Guest guest]

Okay, Val and Nick -I'M GONNA STICK IT OUT and NOT go back on T4! (It's just

that I've already cleared so much while on the little bit of NT, and feel SO

much worse going off it - like I'm missing some life-giving chemical. Truly.

Just made me wonder if I'm the exception - because I often seem to be

medically.)

important QUESTION: Since it's dropping my temps and I'm feeling jittery on it

(though, this morning I feel completely flat and drop-dead fatigued like the old

days) UNTIL I get my IV in a week, should I dose my cytomel in order to not drop

temps and stress my adrenals (I'm worried I'm crashing them. i KNOW I'm

stressing them right now), or should I just know I'll be jittery and crashed

off and on for a week and make sure I get at least a certain mg in me, like 25.

(I wasn't watching this list as thoroughly before switching to just T3, but I'll

go back and look at posts.)

THANK YOU A MILLION TIMES OVER for your help. I'm sure it's hard when you see

the bigger picture and we're so mired in the sxs and don't have the experience,

so we can't see it.

~Carol

>

> Go through the posts for the lats couple weeks, is one having

> horrid issues form lwo ferritin. Milena is also having the same ones. I

> know this is hard to grasp when oyu are in a brain fogged state but the

> low ferritin causes the T3 to not be able ot get to the cells but it si

> differnt than just blocking it. It causes extreme anxiety and low

> cortisol SYMPTOMS and I do nto think it actuall ycauses lwo cortisokl

> unelss oyu keep packing in T3 and not being abke to use it. T4 is NOT

> going to help this. T4 wil cause more RT3 which oyu wil then have to

> deal wiht when you get th ferritin up. But go ahead I am tired of

> telling peoeple we do not need T4. Mine is .2 and has been there ofr a

> year.Right now my work is driving me nuts and I am booked out for a week

> and a half solid, and I am feelign better than I EVER did on natural

> thyroid even whne I was MUCH younger. I htink if we really needed T4 for

> much of anything I would have collapsed by now.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

>

[Guest guest]

I have seen people so sensitive to T3 they had to start in 2.5mg doses.

BUt you can try ot stick it out on just 25mcg as oyu are feeling so

hypo. Juts remember some of that fatigue is form lwo iron.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

I thanked you on Val's reply, but thanks, Nick.

The thing that confuses me about the clearing is I thought when resistance

starts clearing your pulse goes high (though, it's going high and my normal

low), as mine was, and your labs come back with suppressed T4 and TSH, which

mine has. So, I obviously did some clearing and some was getting into my cells.

My labs (in first post on thread) shows my T3 mid-range, so I guess what I'm

going for is for it to be at the high end or the range with TSH and T4

suppressed, yes? And then when I get hyper like that again, that's when I back

down?

This is after I've gotten my IV!!

Oh, forgot to ask important QUESTION: How long after I've had the IV should I

try to raise my cytomel. (I've read your site several times about how to raise,

so I'm clear on that.) But, I know Val says it's a tricky thing while trying to

raise ferritin, and I don't see that on the site.

Thanks so much again, Nick (and yep, you, too, Val!)

>

> >Right now my work is driving me nuts and I am booked out for a week

> >and a half solid, and I am feelign better than I EVER did on natural

> >thyroid even whne I was MUCH younger. I htink if we really needed T4 for

> >much of anything I would have collapsed by now.

>

> Same here, I am very busy at work and need my wits about me.

>

> My thought processes are clearer on T3 only than they ever were on

> Natural and various joint aches etc are also better (though the

> vitamin D may be helping those). Stamina and sleep quality are also

> much better.

>

> I am pretty sure I have " non-RT3 related " tissue resistance to thyroid

> hormone. This is what caused me to need a LOT of natural in order to

> feel well. Taking that large amount of natural caused the RT3 to build

> up and that gave me a second layer of tissue resistance and various

> nasty RT3 effects such as a hard pulse (high blood pressure) and a bit

> of a tremor to my hands.

>

> Going T3 only let me shed the RT3 which cleared on schedule. I am now

> on a higher than typical dose of T3 but stable as the lack of T4

> prevents any further resistance building up.

>

> I think anyone who has resistance which is not solely due to RT3 is

> going to have to stay on T3 only as the amount of Natural that they

> would need to give them high enough FT3 levels to find their sweet

> spot (which will be over range) would lead to an immediate RT3 buildup

> and deepening resistance.

>

> My gut feeling is that if 100mcg of T3 or less lets you feel well

> after resistance clears and you have corrected Cortisol and ferritin

> issues (plus vitamins D and B12 etc) then you may well be able to go

> back onto Natural and be stable on it.

>

> Those of us who need more than 100mcg of T3 a day are probably

> battling " other resistance " issues and these will lead to RT3 forming

> if there is T4 in the mix.

>

> My thoughts, I've got no papers to prove it but it adds up to me.

>

> Nick

>

[Guest guest]

It won't totally set my adrenals back? (I know there's no way to know for sure.)

SOUNDS SOUNDS LIKE I CAN PLAY AROUND WITH THE T3 DOSE. Since the T3 crashes my

BRAIN so bad right now, I might go DOWN. It's easier to deal with the fatigue,

at least I think, then the brain stuff. I just don't want to go into some

myxedema coma being on so little and not being on any NT (I KNOW, I KNOW!!) I

don't sit and worry about myxedema, but since I'm doing something new, I want to

make sure, and as I said, this stuff is not joke. Holy crap!!

(To respond to your low cortisol comment, since I'm on 27.5mg of HC, I'm not

concerned about low cortisol, all along, I've been concerned about being on TOO

MUCH HC since I had good morning dose, wondering if that was part of the issue.

My foggy brain (which when it's well can read medical journals no problem!) is

having trouble figuring it all out.)

>

> I have seen people so sensitive to T3 they had to start in 2.5mg doses.

> BUt you can try ot stick it out on just 25mcg as oyu are feeling so

> hypo. Juts remember some of that fatigue is form lwo iron.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

>

[Guest guest]

>The thing that confuses me about the clearing is I thought when resistance

starts clearing your pulse goes high (though, it's going high and my normal

low), as mine was, and your labs come back with suppressed T4 and TSH, which

mine has.

The clearance only causes labs to go high if you are taking enough T3.

If you are not taking much then you may just feel " less hypo "

Suppressed T4 and TSH are what's needed to cause the clearance, not a

result of it

>So, I obviously did some clearing and some was getting into my cells. My labs

(in first post on thread) shows my T3 mid-range, so I guess what I'm going for

is for it to be at the high end or the range with TSH and T4 suppressed, yes?

And then when I get hyper like that again, that's when I back down?

If you are nid range FT3 then you won't get hyper symptoms.

Nick

[Guest guest]

<If you are mid range FT3 then you won't get hyper symptoms.>

But I AM getting some hyper symptoms, which continues to confuse (not to worry,

I'm still sticking to the T3 plan!) I woke up totally flat, then starting around

noon or maybe a bit later, I had energy, energy, energy for about 3 hours,

though still foggy out of my mind. And then I had no energy and now I'm a flat

tire and my fogginess is worse. (A couple of weeks ago, I was getting

intermittently hyper on waking and my pulse was going up to 105 from my usual

57-60.)

When I got up my temp was 98. Took 6.25 cytomel and by 10am my temp was 96.5.

Was freezing. Pulse 75. (At least my pulse is getting higher.) Didn't take my

temp when I was hyper, but my pulse was in the 80s. At 3:30 my temp was 98.05

and pulse 72. I took 6.25mg at noon, thinking I'd wait an extra hour since I

had such a temp drop in the morning. I decreased my 2pm dose to 5mcg (I got my

doc to prescribe me 5mcg pills along with the 25mcg, so now that I'm just on T3,

I can dose my specifically, rather than trying to quarter a 1/4 pill, etc..)

This was the pattern yesterday when I just did the 6.25 at wake, 11 and 2. I've

stopped my bed dose, which has made my temps go up a bit on waking.

(I'm dosing my HC at my regular 10, 5,5,5. 1.5 at bed, fyi)

So, does any of this give an indication of what might be going on? If it's the

low ferritin doing something, then okay, but the drop in temp after the morning

dose makes me think it's something else Just bare with my stupid questions,

Nick and Val, they won't last forever!! It'll all sink into my addled brain.

QUESTION: I wonder if I need to take smaller amounts more often (less than

6.25, since it's dropping my temps so much in the morning. It doesn't seem to

drop my temp later. At least I don't think. I can half the 5mcg pills.)

And thanks for the previous explanation, Nick.

>

> >The thing that confuses me about the clearing is I thought when resistance

starts clearing your pulse goes high (though, it's going high and my normal

low), as mine was, and your labs come back with suppressed T4 and TSH, which

mine has.

>

> The clearance only causes labs to go high if you are taking enough T3.

> If you are not taking much then you may just feel " less hypo "

>

> Suppressed T4 and TSH are what's needed to cause the clearance, not a

> result of it

>

> >So, I obviously did some clearing and some was getting into my cells. My labs

(in first post on thread) shows my T3 mid-range, so I guess what I'm going for

is for it to be at the high end or the range with TSH and T4 suppressed, yes?

And then when I get hyper like that again, that's when I back down?

>

> If you are nid range FT3 then you won't get hyper symptoms.

>

> Nick

>

[Guest guest]

You are WAY overthinking this. It is simple you are not HYPER. But your

body is not using the T3 properly, The low ferritin is causing issues

that are stressing your adnelas wiht the T3. You need ot find a dose

where you get NO hyoer sympotmos as that is adrnealine, bioth from weak

adrneals that are not improving and from lwo ferritin which also causes

adrenal stress. INstead of a 10-5-5-5-1.5 dos you shoud be on a better

rythm 10-7.5-5-then wait till bedoimte and use 2.5 then

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

>When I got up my temp was 98. Took 6.25 cytomel and by 10am my temp was 96.5.

Was freezing. Pulse 75. (At least my pulse is getting higher.) Didn't take my

temp when I was hyper, but my pulse was in the 80s.

That wasn't hyper with a pulse in the 80s, it may have been low

cortisol (which explains the temperature drop on taking T3) or low

ferritin (I can't remember your labs)

Have a read of this

http://thyroid-rt3.com/temperat.htm

Nick

--

for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to

www.thyroid-rt3.com

[Guest guest]

>When I got up my temp was 98. Took 6.25 cytomel and by 10am my temp was 96.5.

Was freezing. Pulse 75. (At least my pulse is getting higher.) Didn't take my

temp when I was hyper, but my pulse was in the 80s.

That wasn't hyper with a pulse in the 80s, it may have been low

cortisol (which explains the temperature drop on taking T3) or low

ferritin (I can't remember your labs)

Have a read of this

http://thyroid-rt3.com/temperat.htm

Nick

--

for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to

www.thyroid-rt3.com

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Val (and Nick) for the reality check. I truly DON'T want to overthink

it! I just want to understand it, so I can recognize/figure on my own when

sxs/issues arise and NOT have to overthink/ask questions. (And, as most of us

are, I'm used to having to do my doc's job for him!)

And when my pulse DOES go up to 105 or 97 and I'm about to jump out of my skin,

that seems hyper to me, which it WAS doing intermittently on the higher dose of

T3, which is where my thought of getting hyper came from, along with my ratio

now being 25 up from 11 (though, I KNOW the labs show clearing before the

receptors clear! But, it's a very positive sign!) But, my T3 dose is lower

now, so I'm not going as high with my pulse. (Knock on wood!)

I'll try the new HC dosing schedule today. That sounds like 4 hours apart,

rather than the three hours I've been doing. And if I figured it right, is 2.5

lower, which is fine by me.

I'm also tweaking the T3, as we talked about. I went down to 2.5mcg of T3 this

morning to see if it would help with the temp drop. Not sure what my body is

used to getting. So, we'll see.

(My IV iron is next Friday. Val, you talked about the T3/iron dance of upping

each, and I'm not sure about that dosing schedule, and will need help with

that!)

Thanks so much again for your support, advice, and patience. You two are really

helping folks. Hope your day is a good one. ~ Carol

>

> You are WAY overthinking this. It is simple you are not HYPER. But your

> body is not using the T3 properly, The low ferritin is causing issues

> that are stressing your adnelas wiht the T3. You need ot find a dose

> where you get NO hyoer sympotmos as that is adrnealine, bioth from weak

> adrneals that are not improving and from lwo ferritin which also causes

> adrenal stress. INstead of a 10-5-5-5-1.5 dos you shoud be on a better

> rythm 10-7.5-5-then wait till bedoimte and use 2.5 then

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

>