Re: To - Re: FYI herx

[Guest guest]

Hi Maz, Hope you don't mind me popping in here I have put my comments in

capitals in your email.

J)

>>>Question: can the syphilis germ/virus be dormant in future offspring

causing them medical problems OR will the virus only effect the initial

person(grandfather) . Have a cousin who has Reiter's Syndrome?. I have

psoriatic

arthritis and in a wheel chair have just had new testing done to see what is

happening.

Hi ,

I hope you don't mind me hopping in here on this thread. I was interested in

your question, because as someone with Lyme which triggered RA, I've learned

that the borrelia spirochete has much in common with Treponema pallidum -

the

syphilis spirochete. In fact, Lyme has been dubbed the second great

imitator,

syphilis being the first.

What they are discovering about Lyme (and about which there has been much

denial in the mainstream) is that mother's infected with Lyme can pass it to

their baby in utero and, if not causing miscarriage or still birth, the baby

is

often born with seriously confounding mental and physical deficits and

abnormalities. However, in the movie documentary, Under Our Skin (which I

highly

recommend seeing!), a mother who previously lost babies to miscarriage and

one that

was stillborn (the baby was found on autopsy to have Lyme), found that her

newly born son did have Lyme, but was at the time they filmed him, still

symptom-free.

THIS DEPENDS ON HOW NEW BORN HE IS. He may still have his mothers blood

properties which would show he had Lymes.

Not much is known about these spirochetal infections, which have the ability

to morph into many different forms, including L-forms (spheroplasts) and

dormant cystic form. What is known is that when environmental conditions in

the

body are not conducive to the spirochete (e.g. when under antibiotic

attack), it

balls up into this hard little, virus-like cyst and literally waits out the

attack...sometimes for years. This is why Lyme docs also employ cyst-busting

medication simultaneously with antibiotic therapy. It is the cystic form of

Lyme,

which is thought to cause persistence and the waxing and waning symptoms

that

many with this disease experience.

So, the question remains...does congenital syphilis exist and, if it does,

is

it possible that a cystic form is passed to the fetus, in utero, and manages

to hang out in the child until adulthood and then burst forth at some

opportunistic time? YES THERE IS CONGENITAL SYPHALIS. HER MOTHER WOULD HAVE

HAD IT AND BEEN TREATED FOR IT BECAUSE SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN TESTED AT BIRTH

AND TREATED OR HAD DEFORMATIES DUE TO CONGENITAL SYPHALIS BUT SYPHALIS IS A

SIMPLE BACTERIA THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ELIMINATED BEFORE ANGELA WAS BORN OR

EVEN CONCEIVED IF SHE WAS BORN IN THE US. IF TREATED AND HER MOTHER AT SOME

POINT IN HER LIFE WOULD HAVE HAD PENICILLIN THERE IS NO WAY SHE WOULD HAVE

PASSED THIS TO ANGELA. BESIDES THAT HER GRANDFATHER DOES NOT PASS BLOOD TO

THE FETUS (HER MOTHER) JUST HIS SPERM.

I think the answer to this is still pretty much an unknown, too, but it is

certainly worth considering. There are some very famous children who were

born

to people with syphilis, including I, queen of England, who took

the

throne from her father, Henry VIII, who had rampant syphilis and was likely

the cause of the loss of his many children by various wives at birth.

was known to have quite a few health problems, including baldness in

adulthood. There's a lot of dispute over whether or not she actually had

congenital

syphilis, but I do wonder whether she was one of Henry's " fortunate "

children,

who survived birth, but was passed a cystic form of syphilis that laid

dormant

until she reached adulthood. I guess we'll never know for sure. IN THOSE

DAYS THERE WAS NO PENICILLIN.

So much is still unknown about these pleomorphic organisms, but if syphilis

can be passed sexually, then it is very possible that Lyme - also a

pleomorphic

spirochetal infection - can be, too. And, if Lyme can be passed

congenitally,

then why not syphilis? BECAUSE LYME IS A DIFFERENT ORGANISM EVEN THO IT IS

SIMILAR.

Mice studies (Barthold etal) have now shown that borreliosis-infected mice

given IV antibiotic for a short period of time become seronegative for the

spirochete and it no longer shows up in their blood serum. However, when

non-infected mice are then given skin grafts taken from these previously

Lyme-infected,

antibiotic-treated mice, these uninfected mice soon become seropositive for

Lyme. Why? Well, it's likely that the antibiotic has driven the spirochete

into

the dormant cystic form and when tissues are transplanted into uninfected

mice, the coast is clear and the spirochetes sprout out again.

It's long been known that syphilis often requires open-ended treatment with

antibiotic therapy, because it is a chronic, persistent disease. Why?

Probably

because, like Lyme, Treponema pallidum morphs into a chronic, persistent,

dormant cystic form. SYPHALIS TREATMENT IS 1 SYRINGE OF PENICILLIN OR 2 WEEK

OF TETRACYCLINE AND THE BLOOD IS NEGATIVE. WHEN THE CHILDREN FROM THE

INFECTED PEOPLE GET MARRIED OR HAVE SURGERY THEIR BLOOD IS NEGATIVE FOR

SYPHALIS. SO HOW CAN THE MICE STUDY BE TRUE UNLESS THEY WERE GIVEN CIPRO (OR

ANOTHER NON PENICILLIN TETRACYCLINE MED) WHICH HAS NO EFFECT ON SYPHALIS.

This is all speculation on my part and I'm just a Lyme patient - not a

physician - but it's a bit like follow-the-dots with all this. The reason

why many

chronic Lyme patients don't get well is because they're given short courses

of

antibiotics that drive the spirochete back into a cystic form, but the

cystic

form is never addressed and, when the coast is clear again...out they come

to

play. ( Trouble is, this is at the root of the whole chronic Lyme

debate...the mainstream arguing that a short course of antibiotics clears

the

infection...added to which they argue that Lyme cannot be tranmitted

sexually or

trans-placentally. As Dr R (a Lyme Literate MD in the Under Our Skin movie

documentary), " Well, that's ridiculous; this just isn't good science! " A

researcher, Dr

Alan Mc is also worth checking out. WE ARE TALKING APPLES AND ORANGES

HERE. Lyme need a long course of antibiotics.syphilis does not. Blood tests

prove this.

I don't mean to sound " know it all " here or deny any of your statements

about Lyme (I have not studied Lyme) I am just keeping the ball rolling :0

Hugs,

cooky

[Guest guest]

Wow! Maz!  You got me thinking.  When Mike and I got married some 33 years ago,

my syphillus test was negative and his was positive.  Several more tests were

run on him and it turned out that he tested a false positive.  But I was always

negative.  After 15 years of marriage, Mike got sick with some blood disorders

and come to find out, these blood disorders always showed a false positive for

syphillus.  These blood disorders were called the Lupus Anticoagulant test and

that is why they removed his spleen, nic'd the pancreas during the operation and

didn't anticoagulate him after surgery.  Two days post, he had two massive

CVA's, and a blood clot in his groin blocking the blood flow.  The foot became

gangrenous and had to be amputated.  They also found he had anticardiolipin

antibody and antiphospholipin antibody syndrome and a Protein S deficiency.  He

survived all that and is now anticoagulted on Coumadin daily.  The next 6 years

were

devoted to therapy and today he is fine.  Medicated but fine.  Has a slight

awkward walk.  The nic'd pancreas still is painful as they nic'd the nerve when

they put in the drains to drain the resulting pancreatic pseudo cysts that

developed.  Is it possible that the Lupus anticoagulant anomily was a result of

prenatal acquired Lupus when the bacteria was in this crystalline cyst stage? 

Hmmmm!  Food for thought!  Maybe all these Immune altering diseases have this

crystalline cyst stage dormant in our bodies.  I won't call them autoimmune

diseases because I don't believe there is anything auto about immunity.  I

believe that immunity is built into our bodies by nature to do the work of

killing invading organisms, but when the body is overwhelmed with these

organisms, then the immune system goes down like plugged plumbing.  Now is it

possible that these family of bacteria and viruses all go into this crystal ball

effect just lurking for the

opportunity to uncurl and strike.  Hmmmm!  Something to think about and

explore.  BTW, I now carry the Lupus anticoagulant antibody, and I am on

anticoagulants---and have developed Scleroderma, R/A and maybe some MCTD.  Very

Interesting!!!!!----Thank you, Dolores & Mike

From: momazmat@... <momazmat@...>

Subject: rheumatic To - Re: FYI herx

rheumatic

Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 2:28 PM

>>>Question: can the syphilis germ/virus be dormant in future offspring

causing them medical problems OR will the virus only effect the initial

person(grandfather) . Have a cousin who has Reiter's Syndrome?. I have psoriatic

arthritis and in a wheel chair have just had new testing done to see what is

happening.<< <

Hi ,

I hope you don't mind me hopping in here on this thread. I was interested in

your question, because as someone with Lyme which triggered RA, I've learned

that the borrelia spirochete has much in common with Treponema pallidum - the

syphilis spirochete. In fact, Lyme has been dubbed the second great imitator,

syphilis being the first.

What they are discovering about Lyme (and about which there has been much

denial in the mainstream) is that mother's infected with Lyme can pass it to

their baby in utero and, if not causing miscarriage or still birth, the baby is

often born with seriously confounding mental and physical deficits and

abnormalities. However, in the movie documentary, Under Our Skin (which I highly

recommend seeing!), a mother who previously lost babies to miscarriage and one

that

was stillborn (the baby was found on autopsy to have Lyme), found that her

newly born son did have Lyme, but was at the time they filmed him, still

symptom-free.

Not much is known about these spirochetal infections, which have the ability

to morph into many different forms, including L-forms (spheroplasts) and

dormant cystic form. What is known is that when environmental conditions in the

body are not conducive to the spirochete (e.g. when under antibiotic attack), it

balls up into this hard little, virus-like cyst and literally waits out the

attack...sometimes for years. This is why Lyme docs also employ cyst-busting

medication simultaneously with antibiotic therapy. It is the cystic form of

Lyme,

which is thought to cause persistence and the waxing and waning symptoms that

many with this disease experience.

So, the question remains...does congenital syphilis exist and, if it does, is

it possible that a cystic form is passed to the fetus, in utero, and manages

to hang out in the child until adulthood and then burst forth at some

opportunistic time?

I think the answer to this is still pretty much an unknown, too, but it is

certainly worth considering. There are some very famous children who were born

to people with syphilis, including I, queen of England, who took the

throne from her father, Henry VIII, who had rampant syphilis and was likely

the cause of the loss of his many children by various wives at birth.

was known to have quite a few health problems, including baldness in

adulthood. There's a lot of dispute over whether or not she actually had

congenital

syphilis, but I do wonder whether she was one of Henry's " fortunate " children,

who survived birth, but was passed a cystic form of syphilis that laid dormant

until she reached adulthood. I guess we'll never know for sure.

So much is still unknown about these pleomorphic organisms, but if syphilis

can be passed sexually, then it is very possible that Lyme - also a pleomorphic

spirochetal infection - can be, too. And, if Lyme can be passed congenitally,

then why not syphilis?

Mice studies (Barthold etal) have now shown that borreliosis- infected mice

given IV antibiotic for a short period of time become seronegative for the

spirochete and it no longer shows up in their blood serum. However, when

non-infected mice are then given skin grafts taken from these previously

Lyme-infected,

antibiotic-treated mice, these uninfected mice soon become seropositive for

Lyme. Why? Well, it's likely that the antibiotic has driven the spirochete into

the dormant cystic form and when tissues are transplanted into uninfected

mice, the coast is clear and the spirochetes sprout out again.

It's long been known that syphilis often requires open-ended treatment with

antibiotic therapy, because it is a chronic, persistent disease. Why? Probably

because, like Lyme, Treponema pallidum morphs into a chronic, persistent,

dormant cystic form.

This is all speculation on my part and I'm just a Lyme patient - not a

physician - but it's a bit like follow-the-dots with all this. The reason why

many

chronic Lyme patients don't get well is because they're given short courses of

antibiotics that drive the spirochete back into a cystic form, but the cystic

form is never addressed and, when the coast is clear again...out they come to

play. ( Trouble is, this is at the root of the whole chronic Lyme

debate...the mainstream arguing that a short course of antibiotics clears the

infection... added to which they argue that Lyme cannot be tranmitted sexually

or

trans-placentally. As Dr R (a Lyme Literate MD in the Under Our Skin movie

documentary) , " Well, that's ridiculous; this just isn't good science! " A

researcher, Dr

Alan Mc is also worth checking out.

Peace, Maz