Re: organic standards ( was Help! Meat Wars at my Coop)

[Guest guest]

Suez, you are correct to a point.

The biggest reason for the USDA organic standard other than big business wanting

in on a healthy profit, not healthy food, is that there was a long list of

variations between organic state standards.

BUT The USDA standards for organic a farmer must pasture his cattle( i have not

seen what meets the standard for pasture) during the year, this would at least

mean summer. Some farmers cannot given terrain, run off of manure, feed

considerations, or lack of knowledge, get cows out during winter. There are many

restrictions unknown to the general public that farmer must adhere too and

biggest being the price paid for their product, which directly results in the

actions and or nonaction and or change a farmer can afford(not the money sense

of the word).

Farmers have been told for 60 years their products are worthless, and paid

accordingly.The major consulting done by extension and feed companies is how to

be efficient.Not looking at the animals true need of evolution.

So farmers keep their cows in the barn. But the smart ones are learning that

cows do best outside and that is very efficient. But farmers are so close to the

edge of collapse every day and trust me I know well how that is, that any change

even as reasonable as it may seem, if he hasn't done it and survived before they

will most likely not change, they will go broke in the safety of that they have

always done, rather in that they do not know.

It is also a very good control measure by the processing industry to keep the

cost of raw material down. You must also realize 50% of ORGANIC farmers are

organic by default. They do not understand soil science, calcium levels, or soil

structure to maximize the land they do have which in turn produces health plants

as well as healthy animals(humans included).

Farmers are not the cause of the food you see in the commercial stores,

processors are the cause, government and the cheap food scam, which your 1935

food dollar is now directed at the Medical Industry, and farmers are getting a

bum rap for the practices they have had top implement just to feed there own

families, and do the thing they were placed on the earth to do. If you want to

yell at someone for the way the animals are kept today, take the way back

machine to the depression, thats the last time that farmers actually were paid

what their efforts were worth, and the consuming public was jealous that farmers

weathered the depression rather well..

Vote with your pocket book, buy direct, and yes organic is no longer organic,

look at the farmer you buy from thats the only certification you need.

Suez Fisher wrote:

> >>>All that organic means is that the cattle were fed organic food, which

> usually means corn, grain, and soy--not real grass.

>

> ***OK, I see a few people have mentioned that organic doesn't mean much more

> than the fact that the animal eats organic food. But my understanding of the

> organic standards (which I admittedly have not read since, maybe, 6 months

> ago) is that there ARE other differenced between organic and non-organic

> other than just the food. At least there are in *my* states organic

> standards, which of course will become obsolete soon I am going to pick

> up some meat/bones/organs today at a local organic farm. I had a

> conversation with the farmer a few days ago (a 79-year-old woman who runs

> the farm) and she told me that her cattle *have to* have access to the

> outdoors due to the organic standards. I told her about the other farm I had

> recently visited in which all the cows and steer were in stanchions, and I

> don't think those animals saw the light of day in winter, nor could they

> even walk one foot since they were in head locks. This organic farmer keeps

> her cattle in one large area in her barn but they can and do go out in the

> pasture all winter long. Not that they're eating grass or anything because

> the pastures are covered in snow, but at least these animals are able to

> walk about, stretch their legs and get fresh air. This farmer's been

> following MOFGA standards (Maine Organic Farmers and Gardeners' Association)

> for years, but my understanding is that the new federal standards are a bit

> 'watered down' compared to state standards here in Maine. As an example,

> " organic " will now actually mean *95%* organic. The other 5% is what worries

> me...However, a product labeled " 100% " organic, will be indeed 100% organic

> (if that's truly possible).

>

> I do understand that many of the new standards are somewhat meaningless, but

> I think that any standard which stipulates that animals not be kept in

> confinement (and worse, stanchioned for long periods) is a very good thing.

> Even if they can't graze in the winter months in some areas of the country,

> exercise, fresh air, and a modicum of free will is all health-giving, which

> is reflected in the meat and milk, IMHO.

>

> Suze Fisher

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

> mailto:s.fisher22@...

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:17:03 -0600 Clearview Acres <clearvu@...>

writes:

Suez, you are correct to a point.

The biggest reason for the USDA organic standard other than big business

wanting

in on a healthy profit, not healthy food, is that there was a long list

of

variations between organic state standards.

++++++On this one I would beg to differ. While I have no doubt that big

business would like to make a healthy profit, the reason the feds got

involved in the crafting of organic standards is that they were *invited*

to do such by many in the COOP/health food/organic foods industry.

When I first discovered this several years back I boldly predicted that

the end of organic foods as we know them was near. At the time everyone

thought I was a nut case. But given the nature of government and the

political process there was no way we would have organic standards that

would actually mean anything, and anyone who didn't toe the line would

find themselves out on their keister. Like chicken farmers who won't

submit to USDA certification because they know it is nothing but smoke

and mirrors. I remember telling the board members of the COOP I

patronized at the time that their politics had betrayed them, that their

political ideas about the nature and role of government *did* matter and

this was certainly reflected in a very stupid approach on the part of

those who *should* know better. As you might imagine I didn't win many

friends on this issue.

The argument that the feds needed to step in because of differing state

standards is wrong on the face of it although I heard it all the time. We

*still* have to personally check out whether a particular grower is up to

our standards. But now, because of government encroachment on an arena

that should be *local*, we have made it more expensive and difficult for

the conscientious grower and farmer who wants to keep the value added

down on the farm but is blocked from many channels because he/she does

not fit government certification models and therefore has less places to

distribute their product and make a profit.

Oh for the day when we realize that " gubbermint " is not the answer, just

as we all seem (at least here) to have come to realize that organic is

not enough.

Bianca