Re: Help! Meat Wars at my Coop

[Guest guest]

I agree that organic certification can be onerous to small producers.

Furthermore, I also believe that a case can be made that conscientiously

raised non-organic meats are sometimes *more humane* than organic. The

reason I think this is that medications are so severely restricted in

organics that I think it's less humane than the alternative. There's no

doubt that sub-therapeutic medications are bad, but therapeutic ones have

value IMHO. I've heard of organic farmers giving up one of their livestock

when it was sick so that it could go to a non-organic farm to receive

appropriate treatment rather than keep it and allow it to suffer until it

either got better on its own or needed to be euthanized. Wow, that was a

bad sentence! Oh, well!

Finally, I agree completely that pastured trumps organic. Ideally, they

should be both, but if you have to choose, go with pastured.

[Guest guest]

-

>a) I'd rather eat pastured non-organic vs. organic grain fed

> I tend to trust small family farmers for quality and honesty

>c) " organic " is becoming a term that many huge food processors have used

>for profit gain (i.e. HORIZON--my coop does not carry their milk, thank God)

>d) I trust our meat buyer's sources research as I know they are committed

>to grass fed meat

>e) I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that the original " organic meat

>only " referendum was passed before any research on local and/or organic

>producers was done.

Your reasoning seems sound to me. Organic grass-fed meat is the best, but

failing that, I too would pick grass-fed over organic -- producers will

need fewer antibiotics and pesticides and whatnot if the cows are out

grazing instead of stuck in confinement lots anyway.

I have heard that it's not immediately feasible for some smaller producers

to gain organic certification. The key is to investigate the particular

producers whenever possible, so you're acquainted with their production

methods.

>In fact, I would propose a new meat buying guideline: " PASTURE-FED,

>HUMANELY, SUSTAINABLY, AND WHEN POSSIBLE, ORGANICALLY RAISED. " The larger

>issue, of course, is the fact that " organic " is losing meaning these

>days...much like " natural " did years ago.

Likewise sounds good.

-

[Guest guest]

>From: Idol <Idol@...>

>I have heard that it's not immediately feasible for some smaller producers

>to gain organic certification. The key is to investigate the particular

>producers whenever possible, so you're acquainted with their production

>methods.

What is organic certification, anyway? Is it a government program, or is it

handled by a private organization?

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[Guest guest]

>

>Part of the upset has been because of the inattention to democratic

>process (the meat buying guidelines were changed in a small meeting rather

>than in a coop-wide vote). This being said, it looks like the whole

>membership may end up voting on the guidelines change. On the surface,

>only " organic " looks really good, and I would prefer organic AND pasture

>fed. However, if that isn't available, I would like my coop to to have

>the option to purchase the best pasture-fed meat it can and this is done

>by asking questions of the farmers we buy from. Basically, I need to

>write a really good letter to the editor of our coop paper to educate the

>membership about the importance of grass fed beef and lamb. In fact, I

>would propose a new meat buying guideline: " PASTURE-FED, HUMANELY,

>SUSTAINABLY, AND WHEN POSSIBLE, ORGANICALLY RAISED. " The larger issue, of

>course, is the fact that " organic " is losing meaning these days...much

>like " natural " did years ago.

>

>Any thoughts/ideas on this, folks?

>

>Thanks!

>

>

:

You might try contacting a local meat distributor. The one I talk to a lot

has never branded their meat " organic " for all the reasons you cite: the

animals come from small, non-certified farmers, though the distributors

inspect (and butcher) the animals and I do trust them. The animals MAY have

had antibiotics once or twice in their lives, if they got sick, which I

don't personally mind, but I know they were pasture-raised, and the

pastures used for livestock aren't generally treated with anything. But

it's all based on trust: the distributor has farmers they trust, and I

trust the distributor.

My distributor has recently jumped through hoops to get registered as an

" organic distributor " because they deal with coops a lot. But the term

" organic " (like the term " free range " ) is not really a guarantee of

anything, and personally I don't know enough about cattle raising to say

much. I do know that longhorn (my favorite!) tend to be pasture-raised and

they don't like to eat grain much, and taste better than their overbred

cousins. But there are other issues too: like USDA inspection, the 'grade'

of the meat, whether it is aged and for how long.

And if your coop doesn't go along with what you want, you can probably buy

it on your own from a distributor or from the farmer. A small freezer from

Sears was $250 (delivered), and for me it holds a small steer, which is

about $500 and lasts our crew half a year of heavy meat eating (I'm feeding

5 adults daily). Many butchers will dress the steer, age it, and package it

for a reasonable price if the distributor won't deal directly with you.

(Mondo's said if I wanted to grow my own venison or whatever I could do the

growing and just call them when it was time to 'package' it. I don't think

I want to know my meat personally, I'm still too much a city girl!).

And yeah, I'd definitely hold out for pasture fed beef or lamb. Esp. from

the smaller farms: I think smaller farms are more sustainable, they are

usually using land that needs to be 'mowed' regardless, and they don't

crowd the animals.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

I'd take pasture-fed animal foods over " organic " animal foods any day. In

Hawaii, we get some incredible grass-fed beef and offal from the Big Island

cattle ranches. The cattle are given one antibiotic shot in their lifetime

and no steroids and they eat REAL grass. Think of all the CLA and Activator

X in those cattle! And the organ meats taste fine and have no bitter

aftertaste, which I've always found with commercial liver.

All that organic means is that the cattle were fed organic food, which

usually means corn, grain, and soy--not real grass.

SCB

www.powerhealth.net

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[Guest guest]

Hi All

I agree 100% with everything you guys or gals have said. That is why I have said

in the past that if at all possible you need to know your food source. Organic

has been infiltrated by big industry and is a big unnecessary expense to a

farmer

if he is able to sell the majority of his food direct. Less expense means less

money required for his products. We are not certified organic yet we are as

organic as anybody and our customers know it.

Just my two cents worth

Idol wrote:

> -

>

> >a) I'd rather eat pastured non-organic vs. organic grain fed

> > I tend to trust small family farmers for quality and honesty

> >c) " organic " is becoming a term that many huge food processors have used

> >for profit gain (i.e. HORIZON--my coop does not carry their milk, thank God)

> >d) I trust our meat buyer's sources research as I know they are committed

> >to grass fed meat

> >e) I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that the original " organic meat

> >only " referendum was passed before any research on local and/or organic

> >producers was done.

>

> Your reasoning seems sound to me. Organic grass-fed meat is the best, but

> failing that, I too would pick grass-fed over organic -- producers will

> need fewer antibiotics and pesticides and whatnot if the cows are out

> grazing instead of stuck in confinement lots anyway.

>

> I have heard that it's not immediately feasible for some smaller producers

> to gain organic certification. The key is to investigate the particular

> producers whenever possible, so you're acquainted with their production

> methods.

>

> >In fact, I would propose a new meat buying guideline: " PASTURE-FED,

> >HUMANELY, SUSTAINABLY, AND WHEN POSSIBLE, ORGANICALLY RAISED. " The larger

> >issue, of course, is the fact that " organic " is losing meaning these

> >days...much like " natural " did years ago.

>

> Likewise sounds good.

>

> -

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In

> Hawaii, we get some incredible grass-fed beef and offal from the Big Island

> cattle ranches. The cattle are given one antibiotic shot in their lifetime

> and no steroids and they eat REAL grass.

This reminds me that the BEST beef I ever had was on the Big

Island...my family thought I was nuts for ordering beef over fish...now

I know why I liked it so much!

ps-thanks to everyone for the support...I'll let you know what happens

at my Brooklyn Coop.

[Guest guest]

At 01:41 AM 4/1/02 +0000, you wrote:

>

>ps-thanks to everyone for the support...I'll let you know what happens

>at my Brooklyn Coop.

>

>

,

This 3/19 NY Post article talks of the 71 out of 74 violating NYCity

slaughterhouses.

<http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/43870.htm>http://www.nypost.com/ne

ws/regionalnews/43870.htm

Wanita