Guest guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 Dennis, I don't know what Dr. Price used--I don't have a copy of NAPD, but there's a chapter about his work with orphan children and he used cod liver oil and butter oil together to improve their teeth and health in general. Let us know the details about your butter oil experiment! : >>>>>>>>>>>>what is the recommended daily dose of the butter oil? I'll make some tomorrow. I'd like to see what the yield is. Dennis Kemnitz > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 At 11:43 PM 3/27/2002 +0000, Dennis wrote: > >>>>>>>>I made some butter today and it is really bright yellow. So I >will warm to 96F plus or minus 5F, then centrifuge. I can centrifuge >only 50 milliliters (mls)per batch. I'm wondering if 96 is too >warm, so I'll watch the butter closely as it warms on a hot plate. Hi Dennis - you may be right. I spent all day keeping a test pot warm (about 95 degrees F.) with butter in it (using a light bulb). The milk solids obligingly fell to the bottom in a few hours and the oil stayed on top. I just carefully poured off the oil afterward. Hey - that was easy. The reason I chose 96 degrees F. is that is supposed to be approximately the highest temperature that bees permit their hives to reach to keep the honey fresh and nutritious for their consumption. The only part I haven't figured out yet is how much water is still left in the remaining oil. Maybe the water isn't that significant if the idea is to just remove the milk solids. However, I suspect that the water might shorten the life of the oil if kept for a long time. Anyone have ideas on that? Regards, -=mark=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 Mark- >However, I suspect that the water might >shorten the life of the oil if kept for a long time. Anyone have ideas on >that? I'm pretty sure water would shorten the life of the oil. Tropical Traditions heats their coconut oil to, IIRC, 118 degrees, specifically to get virtually all the water out, because otherwise the oil would spoil. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 At 05:25 AM 3/28/2002 +0000, you wrote: >This butter oil I made has solidified at room temp (70F). Did yours? >What you going to do with the oil? Dennis Kemnitz Yes - mine solidified. I think it is the water still in the oil that causes it. I will keep heating it gently tomorrow to see if the water will eventually evaporate. But - it is very similar to some commercial Ghee that I have gotten in the past - it has a different taste than whole butter - still delicious though. Since I have no troubles with whole, raw milk I will use the butter oil (slightly hydrogenated still) as I normally do - as raw fat in my diet. How about you? Regards, -=mark=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 Mark- >milk I will use the butter oil >(slightly hydrogenated still) Hydrogenated? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 > Yes - mine solidified. I think it is the water still in the oil that > causes it. I don't think so. The degree of saturation in the fat is going to be the ultimate determinant of room temperature solidity. The degree of saturation of the fat molecules isn't changed by removing the water and solids fractions from the oil; therefore it should have a melting point that's very similar to regular butter. > Since I have no troubles with whole, raw milk I will use the butter oil > (slightly hydrogenated still) I think you mean slightly hydrous not hydrogenated. Picky, I know...but considering how undesirable hydrogenated fat is...it's probably a worthwhile nit-pick. It would be tragic if a newbie thought that butter was somehow hydrogenated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 At 01:34 AM 3/28/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Hydrogenated? I may have used that term incorrectly. I saw a reference to butter oil and an alias was " anhydrous milk fat " . This is a reference to having removed the water from the butter (as in Ghee). In my experiment with warming butter to remove the milk solids I think there is still some water in the butter - hence it is still " hydrogenated " or perhaps more correctly " hydrous " milk fat. -=mark=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 At 10:35 AM 3/28/2002 -0600, you wrote: >I think you mean slightly hydrous not hydrogenated. Picky, I know...but >considering how undesirable hydrogenated fat is...it's probably a worthwhile >nit-pick. It would be tragic if a newbie thought that butter was somehow >hydrogenated! Thanks - I did, eventually, figure out I'd used that term incorrectly. I appreciate the correction. Regards, -=mark=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2002 Report Share Posted March 29, 2002 I must warn you of heating to low temps on milk & milk products. make sure your source is clean, campylobacter thrives at 85to116 degrees, as well as E=coli kelly bruns wrote: > Hi Guys > Not sure if it helps but the temperature of a cow is from 101 to 102 degrees > F. It may rise as high as 103 on a hot day. Seems to me that the nutrients > would not be compromised heating milk at least that warm ?? > > dkemnitz2000 wrote: > > > > > > >This butter oil I made has solidified at room temp (70F). Did > > yours? > > > >What you going to do with the oil? Dennis Kemnitz > > > > > > Yes - mine solidified. <snip> > > > > > > Since I have no troubles with whole, raw milk I will use the butter > > oil > > > (slightly hydrogenated still) as I normally do - as raw fat in my > > > diet. How about you? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > -=mark=- > > > > Mark: > > Maybe I'll use mine when I'm in a rush as a matter of convenience, > > like when the butter's too hard to spread or I don't have any bread. > > Not a big deal, but I doubt there's water in the oil. Try freezing a > > little and look for ice crystals before thawing and watch for weeping > > as it thaws. The oil I had on top layer solidified at room temp. and > > looks like coconut oil I've seen years ago (at room temp.), without > > the yellow color of course. Dennis Kemnitz > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2002 Report Share Posted March 29, 2002 Hi Guys Not sure if it helps but the temperature of a cow is from 101 to 102 degrees F. It may rise as high as 103 on a hot day. Seems to me that the nutrients would not be compromised heating milk at least that warm ?? dkemnitz2000 wrote: > > > >This butter oil I made has solidified at room temp (70F). Did > yours? > > >What you going to do with the oil? Dennis Kemnitz > > > > Yes - mine solidified. <snip> > > > > Since I have no troubles with whole, raw milk I will use the butter > oil > > (slightly hydrogenated still) as I normally do - as raw fat in my > > diet. How about you? > > > > Regards, > > > > -=mark=- > > Mark: > Maybe I'll use mine when I'm in a rush as a matter of convenience, > like when the butter's too hard to spread or I don't have any bread. > Not a big deal, but I doubt there's water in the oil. Try freezing a > little and look for ice crystals before thawing and watch for weeping > as it thaws. The oil I had on top layer solidified at room temp. and > looks like coconut oil I've seen years ago (at room temp.), without > the yellow color of course. Dennis Kemnitz > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2002 Report Share Posted March 30, 2002 the dairy industry does not test for campy or any pathogens for that matter. BUT all the extension,CDC FDA info SAYS it can be there. I have yet to find a case that proves you can even culture campy from raw milk, it was only discovered in 1976 and only ws cultured 2 times in milk in tests, not in the field as for on farm. dkemnitz2000 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Guys > > > Not sure if it helps but the temperature of a cow is from 101 to > 102 degrees > > > F. It may rise as high as 103 on a hot day. Seems to me that the > nutrients > > > would not be compromised heating milk at least that warm ?? > > > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Sorry about the double no-message post last night. By > the time I finished " snipping " I thought I was ready to send. Any > way thank goodness it's a new day. So when did the dairy industry > start testing for Campylobacter? I studied food microbiology and > quality control for dairy foods in 1976 and '77 and we didn't test for > them then. Further at Mid-Am there was not any routine testing for > Campylobacter in 1977,78 or 79 cause I worked at their lab then. What > disease does Campylobacter cause or is there just some sort of food > poisoning associated with Campylobacter? We did test for coliforms, > total plate count, and antibiotics in incoming raw milk and on some > producer samples. Of course we checked butterfat routinely on > producers and added water occassionally on tankers and producers. On > grade A co-mingled we tested every tanker for antibiotics. We did not > test for E coli or any specific strains of E coli. Manufacturing > grade milk was used at our plant to manufacture mozzarrella cheese > and powdered lactose food and de-lactosed whey feed. Since then I've > worked more with powdered products 'cause, actually, QC of dairy is > complicated. It's a rich food that microorganisms love and therefore > cause many complications prior to, during and after manufacture. > It's best consumed almost immediately (fresh) in my opinion for so > many reasons. So the rest of you folks could get a cow to go along > with those two chickens in your yard! It doesn't HAVE to be a Jersey! > There may be some for sale and I figure a good fair price for what > they offer in nutrition yearly to a family should be around 5000 > dollars a piece. Afterall it takes nearly 4 years to humanely get one > into production. Don't wait! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2002 Report Share Posted April 2, 2002 Mark and Dennis, Thanks for all the info on the butter oil. Now I can experiment with butter oil and my own fresh made fish oils. I want to use this with my niece, who already has a filling at the ripe old age of six. But my sister is not open to my dietary recommendations or my ramblings about the disturbance already ocurring in her daughter's health, but I could get this in her diet. One question (which might sound stupid), Dennis, what are you using as a centrifuge? Bianca On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:15:38 -0800 theta sigma <thetasig@...> writes: At 11:43 PM 3/27/2002 +0000, Dennis wrote: > >>>>>>>>I made some butter today and it is really bright yellow. So I >will warm to 96F plus or minus 5F, then centrifuge. I can centrifuge >only 50 milliliters (mls)per batch. I'm wondering if 96 is too >warm, so I'll watch the butter closely as it warms on a hot plate. Hi Dennis - you may be right. I spent all day keeping a test pot warm (about 95 degrees F.) with butter in it (using a light bulb). The milk solids obligingly fell to the bottom in a few hours and the oil stayed on top. I just carefully poured off the oil afterward. Hey - that was easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2002 Report Share Posted April 3, 2002 At 11:42 PM 4/2/2002 +0000, you wrote: >It sounded like Mark >had good luck pouring off the top. Good luck. Dennis I found it very easy to make butter oil. Sort of low-tech too which is why I'm writing this. Basically, we are making Ghee - " classic " butter oil with the milk solids removed and with most, if not all, of the water removed. This form of butter can last a long, long time without refrigeration. In Ayurvedic medicine some Ghee is made with herbs and the older the Ghee the more cherished (some can be decades old). The butter acts as a vehicle to carry the herbal property deep into the body's cells (similar to honey in this regard). Of course the butter oil can be used without any additional ingredients. So all I did was to slightly heat the (organic, grass-fed) butter to a temperature below 90 degrees F. in an uncovered glass measuring cup (any glass container will do). I used a light bulb for the heat (above and not too near) and had a cooking thermometer in the cup to watch the temperature. After awhile the milk solids will fall to the bottom. The butter oil will stay on top. I heated the butter in this fashion all day long so as to also evaporate the water from the butter. Then it is a snap to gently pour off the oil leaving the milk solids in the cup. At room temperature the oil will solidify somewhat. That's all there is to it. Regards, -=mark=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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