Re: Why not Amox-Clav instead of Tetracycline based antibiotics?

[Guest guest]

Hi!

I wish I had the medical background to answer your post with authority

because I'd love to know, as well. I'm particularly interested in the sinus

connection because hubby and I have had issues for years with our sinuses.

Anyway, I guess there are several things in favor of the tetracycline

antibiotics. They are pretty inexpensive and are well-tolerated for

prolonged use. Also, they have a lot of history behind them. I know what

you mean, though. I had gallbladder surgery in May, and I came BOUNCING out

of the hospital because I felt so good! I don't know what my IV antibiotic

was, but apparently it was a really good one!

I have RA, Psoriatic arthritis, and Fibromylagia. I started AP in March. I

was barely able to get about at that point, and I couldn't hold or carry

anything. I felt great the first week, and then, I had a six-week herx

which even put me in bed a few days. Now, I don't know what your doc has

started you on. Some prefer to avoid the herx by gradually increasing the

dosage. My doc apparently is very aggressive. He didn't care one bit about

my miserable herx as long as it was killing off the bad guys! LOL ly,

I didn't care either for the same reason. My dosage is 200mg of mincycline

per day and 250mg of azithromycin each day. I rarely actually get both mino

pills taken anymore. I've been getting the second pill about four days a

week now. (It's hard to remember when you don't feel bad.) I've been able

to ditch the anti-depressant used to treat my fibro with no ill effects

(other than the miserable withdrawal symptoms). I also rarely take any

NSAIDS anymore. I take them maybe three-four days a week if I know I am

going to exercise harder than usual.

I went from only being able to shuffle along with mincing, painful steps to

getting season passes to the local amusement park and going once a week all

summer walking, riding roller coasters, and riding water slides!

I hope AP works as well for you as it has for me!

Blessings!

Terri

_____

From: rheumatic [mailto:rheumatic ] On Behalf

Of Misty

Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 1:47 PM

rheumatic

Subject: rheumatic Why not Amox-Clav instead of Tetracycline based

antibiotics?

I'm new here, this is my first post.

Bit of background... I have a pre-med background so I'm big into

researching a lot on my own about my health issues. Back in April I

found out I was going to need septoplasty surgery to fix a slew of

problems with my sinuses, in hopes to stop chronic migraines that were

fairly new (just a couple years).

I had sinus problems my entire life. Chronic drainage, etc. I did

research and found that a big cause of chronic sinusitis is

mycoplasma. I did more research, and started wondering that if they

fix the sinus problems, not only could it stop my migraines, but could

it help or stop my autoimmune problems? I wasn't sure, but research I

had done suggested that mycoplasma was an underlying cause of

autoimmune issues. At this point, I didn't know about antibiotic

therapy for autoimmune problems.

Sure as the world, after surgery, despite the pain from the surgery

itself, I felt GREAT! All my joint pains were gone, I just felt

wonderful. After a few weeks of healing, I felt like a teenager

again. No pain, LOTS of energy, etc.

Unfortunately by mid-August, I started reverting slowly back to where

I was. That is what made me wonder if it was actually the antibiotics

that had made me feel so great.

My doctors do feel that I could indeed have an underlying infection

that could be triggering the autoimmune issues, but they don't want to

treat it with antibiotics. So, I did more research and found out

about The Road Back Foundation. Bingo! Through that I found a new

doctor that has placed me on antibiotic therapy.

I've only been on it one week, but I can't tell a difference. In

fact, if anything, feel a bit worse. I know about the Herxheimer

reaction, and realize that could be this (although this is very

slight). I also know that AP therapy can take months before noticing

a difference.

But here's my question, although it may be a stupid question: Why not

be placed on something like Amox-Clav (like I was for surgery and

after surgery) which worked INSTANTLY? Why the tetracycline based

antibiotics which can take months or a year or longer to MAYBE have a

difference?

I'd LOVE to be back on the Amox-Clav or something like it to feel

normal quick like that. It obviously did something right to be able

to make me feel that great that quick.

If anyone knows the answer, I'd love to hear it! Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Maybe the explanation truly is the the antibiotics. Though another possibility

lies in the body's response to trauma (given that surgery is really just well

orchestrated trauma). I had major surgery this year and experienced similar

temporary improvements of autoimmune symptoms, though I had not been given

antibiotics during surgery or afterward. I asked my rheum. He claimed it is

not unusual. That it can be a physiological response to trauma, the body's

normal as well as abnormal functions give way to an autonomic-like response of

the body to the trauma. Part of the body's response to an emergency (which it

thinks surgery is) is to kick the sympathetic network into gear, and other

functions (circulatory, lymphatic, etc.) follow from that and are likewise

altered to prepare for the worst.

Afterward, I recalled watching some Nat Geo program on TV that had a lone hiker

falling around 40 feet over a cliff. She was badly injured, bad leg fracture,

but claimed that she felt no pain. She wrapped it good with what she had and

crawled a good distance until she was found. She said the first pain she felt

was when she was loaded on the rescue helicopter. They explained it by saying

that her response probably was trigered before she hit the ground, that falling

itself was enough for the body to go into an emergency mode. The brain and the

CNS can then automatically and temporarily shunt or physically block neural pain

and sensory impulses in anticipation of trauma. Once she sensed the relief of

rescue, the body's extreme response was stopped. It's the classic

sympathetic/parasympathetic physiological response. This is an extreme example,

but it is true that the sympathetic/parasympathetic response does not have to be

this dramatic. It still functions at lower levels of trauma, and maybe that is

what is driving some post-surgery improvements. In autoimmune diseases, we

think of the immune system as fuctioning abnormally. Really though it is just

the body incorrectly applying normal bodily processes. So it seems reasonable

that if those normal processes are potentially altered due to trauma, then even

the factor driving the autoimmunity could be temporarily affected.

Jeff

rheumatic

From: brn_eye_grl@...

Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:46:54 +0000

Subject: rheumatic Why not Amox-Clav instead of Tetracycline based

antibiotics?

I'm new here, this is my first post.

Bit of background... I have a pre-med background so I'm big into

researching a lot on my own about my health issues. Back in April I

found out I was going to need septoplasty surgery to fix a slew of

problems with my sinuses, in hopes to stop chronic migraines that were

fairly new (just a couple years).

I had sinus problems my entire life. Chronic drainage, etc. I did

research and found that a big cause of chronic sinusitis is

mycoplasma. I did more research, and started wondering that if they

fix the sinus problems, not only could it stop my migraines, but could

it help or stop my autoimmune problems? I wasn't sure, but research I

had done suggested that mycoplasma was an underlying cause of

autoimmune issues. At this point, I didn't know about antibiotic

therapy for autoimmune problems.

Sure as the world, after surgery, despite the pain from the surgery

itself, I felt GREAT! All my joint pains were gone, I just felt

wonderful. After a few weeks of healing, I felt like a teenager

again. No pain, LOTS of energy, etc.

Unfortunately by mid-August, I started reverting slowly back to where

I was. That is what made me wonder if it was actually the antibiotics

that had made me feel so great.

My doctors do feel that I could indeed have an underlying infection

that could be triggering the autoimmune issues, but they don't want to

treat it with antibiotics. So, I did more research and found out

about The Road Back Foundation. Bingo! Through that I found a new

doctor that has placed me on antibiotic therapy.

I've only been on it one week, but I can't tell a difference. In

fact, if anything, feel a bit worse. I know about the Herxheimer

reaction, and realize that could be this (although this is very

slight). I also know that AP therapy can take months before noticing

a difference.

But here's my question, although it may be a stupid question: Why not

be placed on something like Amox-Clav (like I was for surgery and

after surgery) which worked INSTANTLY? Why the tetracycline based

antibiotics which can take months or a year or longer to MAYBE have a

difference?

I'd LOVE to be back on the Amox-Clav or something like it to feel

normal quick like that. It obviously did something right to be able

to make me feel that great that quick.

If anyone knows the answer, I'd love to hear it! Thanks!

_________________________________________________________________

When your life is on the go—take your life with you.

http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/

[Guest guest]

Great explanation.  May I use it in my book if I give you the credit? 

Wonderful insight!  Thanks, Dolores

From: Jeffery <jefferysa@...>

Subject: RE: rheumatic Why not Amox-Clav instead of Tetracycline based

antibiotics?

rheumatic

Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 6:23 PM

Maybe the explanation truly is the the antibiotics. Though another possibility

lies in the body's response to trauma (given that surgery is really just

well orchestrated trauma). I had major surgery this year and experienced

similar temporary improvements of autoimmune symptoms, though I had not been

given antibiotics during surgery or afterward. I asked my rheum. He claimed it

is not unusual. That it can be a physiological response to trauma, the

body's normal as well as abnormal functions give way to an autonomic-like

response of the body to the trauma. Part of the body's response to an

emergency (which it thinks surgery is) is to kick the sympathetic network into

gear, and other functions (circulatory, lymphatic, etc.) follow from that and

are likewise altered to prepare for the worst.

Afterward, I recalled watching some Nat Geo program on TV that had a lone hiker

falling around 40 feet over a cliff. She was badly injured, bad leg fracture,

but claimed that she felt no pain. She wrapped it good with what she had and

crawled a good distance until she was found. She said the first pain she felt

was when she was loaded on the rescue helicopter. They explained it by saying

that her response probably was trigered before she hit the ground, that falling

itself was enough for the body to go into an emergency mode. The brain and the

CNS can then automatically and temporarily shunt or physically block neural pain

and sensory impulses in anticipation of trauma. Once she sensed the relief of

rescue, the body's extreme response was stopped. It's the classic

sympathetic/parasympathetic physiological response. This is an extreme example,

but it is true that the sympathetic/parasympathetic response does not have to be

this dramatic. It still functions at lower levels of trauma, and maybe that is

what is driving some post-surgery improvements. In autoimmune diseases, we

think of the immune system as fuctioning abnormally. Really though it is just

the body incorrectly applying normal bodily processes. So it seems reasonable

that if those normal processes are potentially altered due to trauma, then even

the factor driving the autoimmunity could be temporarily affected.

Jeff

rheumatic

From: brn_eye_grl@...

Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:46:54 +0000

Subject: rheumatic Why not Amox-Clav instead of Tetracycline based

antibiotics?

I'm new here, this is my first post.

Bit of background... I have a pre-med background so I'm big into

researching a lot on my own about my health issues. Back in April I

found out I was going to need septoplasty surgery to fix a slew of

problems with my sinuses, in hopes to stop chronic migraines that were

fairly new (just a couple years).

I had sinus problems my entire life. Chronic drainage, etc. I did

research and found that a big cause of chronic sinusitis is

mycoplasma. I did more research, and started wondering that if they

fix the sinus problems, not only could it stop my migraines, but could

it help or stop my autoimmune problems? I wasn't sure, but research I

had done suggested that mycoplasma was an underlying cause of

autoimmune issues. At this point, I didn't know about antibiotic

therapy for autoimmune problems.

Sure as the world, after surgery, despite the pain from the surgery

itself, I felt GREAT! All my joint pains were gone, I just felt

wonderful. After a few weeks of healing, I felt like a teenager

again. No pain, LOTS of energy, etc.

Unfortunately by mid-August, I started reverting slowly back to where

I was. That is what made me wonder if it was actually the antibiotics

that had made me feel so great.

My doctors do feel that I could indeed have an underlying infection

that could be triggering the autoimmune issues, but they don't want to

treat it with antibiotics. So, I did more research and found out

about The Road Back Foundation. Bingo! Through that I found a new

doctor that has placed me on antibiotic therapy.

I've only been on it one week, but I can't tell a difference. In

fact, if anything, feel a bit worse. I know about the Herxheimer

reaction, and realize that could be this (although this is very

slight). I also know that AP therapy can take months before noticing

a difference.

But here's my question, although it may be a stupid question: Why not

be placed on something like Amox-Clav (like I was for surgery and

after surgery) which worked INSTANTLY? Why the tetracycline based

antibiotics which can take months or a year or longer to MAYBE have a

difference?

I'd LOVE to be back on the Amox-Clav or something like it to feel

normal quick like that. It obviously did something right to be able

to make me feel that great that quick.

If anyone knows the answer, I'd love to hear it! Thanks!

_________________________________________________________________

When your life is on the go葉ake your life with you.

http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/

[Guest guest]

Very interesting idea!

Blessings!

Terri

_____

From: rheumatic [mailto:rheumatic ] On Behalf Of

mike rosner

Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 9:17 PM

rheumatic

Subject: RE: rheumatic Why not Amox-Clav instead of Tetracycline based

antibiotics?

Great explanation. May I use it in my book if I give you the credit? Wonderful

insight! Thanks, Dolores

From: Jeffery <jefferysahotmail (DOT) <mailto:jefferysa%40hotmail.com> com>

Subject: RE: rheumatic Why not Amox-Clav instead of Tetracycline based

antibiotics?

rheumatic@grou <mailto:rheumatic%40> ps.com

Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 6:23 PM

Maybe the explanation truly is the the antibiotics. Though another possibility

lies in the body's response to trauma (given that surgery is really just

well orchestrated trauma). I had major surgery this year and experienced

similar temporary improvements of autoimmune symptoms, though I had not been

given antibiotics during surgery or afterward. I asked my rheum. He claimed it

is not unusual. That it can be a physiological response to trauma, the

body's normal as well as abnormal functions give way to an autonomic-like

response of the body to the trauma. Part of the body's response to an

emergency (which it thinks surgery is) is to kick the sympathetic network into

gear, and other functions (circulatory, lymphatic, etc.) follow from that and

are likewise altered to prepare for the worst.

Afterward, I recalled watching some Nat Geo program on TV that had a lone hiker

falling around 40 feet over a cliff. She was badly injured, bad leg fracture,

but claimed that she felt no pain. She wrapped it good with what she had and

crawled a good distance until she was found. She said the first pain she felt

was when she was loaded on the rescue helicopter. They explained it by saying

that her response probably was trigered before she hit the ground, that falling

itself was enough for the body to go into an emergency mode. The brain and the

CNS can then automatically and temporarily shunt or physically block neural pain

and sensory impulses in anticipation of trauma. Once she sensed the relief of

rescue, the body's extreme response was stopped. It's the classic

sympathetic/parasympathetic physiological response. This is an extreme example,

but it is true that the sympathetic/parasympathetic response does not have to be

this dramatic. It still functions at lower levels of trauma, and maybe that is

what is driving some post-surgery improvements. In autoimmune diseases, we

think of the immune system as fuctioning abnormally. Really though it is just

the body incorrectly applying normal bodily processes. So it seems reasonable

that if those normal processes are potentially altered due to trauma, then even

the factor driving the autoimmunity could be temporarily affected.

Jeff

rheumatic@grou <mailto:rheumatic%40> ps.com

From: brn_eye_grl@ <mailto:brn_eye_grl%40>

Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:46:54 +0000

Subject: rheumatic Why not Amox-Clav instead of Tetracycline based

antibiotics?

I'm new here, this is my first post.

Bit of background... I have a pre-med background so I'm big into

researching a lot on my own about my health issues. Back in April I

found out I was going to need septoplasty surgery to fix a slew of

problems with my sinuses, in hopes to stop chronic migraines that were

fairly new (just a couple years).

I had sinus problems my entire life. Chronic drainage, etc. I did

research and found that a big cause of chronic sinusitis is

mycoplasma. I did more research, and started wondering that if they

fix the sinus problems, not only could it stop my migraines, but could

it help or stop my autoimmune problems? I wasn't sure, but research I

had done suggested that mycoplasma was an underlying cause of

autoimmune issues. At this point, I didn't know about antibiotic

therapy for autoimmune problems.

Sure as the world, after surgery, despite the pain from the surgery

itself, I felt GREAT! All my joint pains were gone, I just felt

wonderful. After a few weeks of healing, I felt like a teenager

again. No pain, LOTS of energy, etc.

Unfortunately by mid-August, I started reverting slowly back to where

I was. That is what made me wonder if it was actually the antibiotics

that had made me feel so great.

My doctors do feel that I could indeed have an underlying infection

that could be triggering the autoimmune issues, but they don't want to

treat it with antibiotics. So, I did more research and found out

about The Road Back Foundation. Bingo! Through that I found a new

doctor that has placed me on antibiotic therapy.

I've only been on it one week, but I can't tell a difference. In

fact, if anything, feel a bit worse. I know about the Herxheimer

reaction, and realize that could be this (although this is very

slight). I also know that AP therapy can take months before noticing

a difference.

But here's my question, although it may be a stupid question: Why not

be placed on something like Amox-Clav (like I was for surgery and

after surgery) which worked INSTANTLY? Why the tetracycline based

antibiotics which can take months or a year or longer to MAYBE have a

difference?

I'd LOVE to be back on the Amox-Clav or something like it to feel

normal quick like that. It obviously did something right to be able

to make me feel that great that quick.

If anyone knows the answer, I'd love to hear it! Thanks!

__________________________________________________________

When your life is on the go葉ake your life with you.

http://clk.atdmt. <http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/>

com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I had a long battle with Sinusitis that often result in lung infections. My

Doctor had me on antibodics every other week using Amox-Clav and

several others. I found a book on Sinusitis. One of the things they

suggested was to exercise couple of times each week. I picked up

cycling. Now my lungs and sinus have cleared up fairly well. Now I'm

on antibodics once a month.

[Guest guest]

Misty, All,

Sinus problems of the type you describe are strongly thought to be a

fungal problem, and one that develops when good flora are not replaced

after they have been eradicated by abx, etc.

Unless this fungal problem is resolved, including usually a change in

diet and treatment of a probable fungal overgrowth, these sinusitis type

conditions can go on forever.

Even Mayo Research a number of years ago put out a paper about this

cause of repeated sinus infections.

Taking antibiotics, and any other medications, serve to keep the body in

a more acidic condition which encourages all sorts of unfriendly

organisms to thrive and multiply. Abx can be a tremendous " magic

bullet " for us when we respect them and pay attention to replacing gut

flora to balance the good vs bad organisms; and the -cyclines address

mycoplasma type organisms. However, abx can be a two-edged sword... and

if we keep on feeding the bad organisms with sugar and other type foods

they need to survive, they can " cut " the wrong way, and make some things

worse.

Some people are genetically and environmentally more susceptible to

yeast overgrowth than others, but where there is chronic illness, I

believe there is no doubt that our gut flora is way out of balance.

This statement has its basis in a scientific paper that Dr.

Crook mailed to those who contacted him a number of years of ago.

bg

>

> I'm new here, this is my first post.

>

> Bit of background... I have a pre-med background so I'm big into

> researching a lot on my own about my health issues. Back in April I

> found out I was going to need septoplasty surgery to fix a slew of

> problems with my sinuses, in hopes to stop chronic migraines that were

> fairly new (just a couple years).

>

> I had sinus problems my entire life. Chronic drainage, etc. I did

> research and found that a big cause of chronic sinusitis is

> mycoplasma. I did more research, and started wondering that if they

> fix the sinus problems, not only could it stop my migraines, but could

> it help or stop my autoimmune problems? I wasn't sure, but research I

> had done suggested that mycoplasma was an underlying cause of

> autoimmune issues. At this point, I didn't know about antibiotic

> therapy for autoimmune problems.

>

> Sure as the world, after surgery, despite the pain from the surgery

> itself, I felt GREAT! All my joint pains were gone, I just felt

> wonderful. After a few weeks of healing, I felt like a teenager

> again. No pain, LOTS of energy, etc.

>

> Unfortunately by mid-August, I started reverting slowly back to where

> I was. That is what made me wonder if it was actually the antibiotics

> that had made me feel so great.

>

> My doctors do feel that I could indeed have an underlying infection

> that could be triggering the autoimmune issues, but they don't want to

> treat it with antibiotics. So, I did more research and found out

> about The Road Back Foundation. Bingo! Through that I found a new

> doctor that has placed me on antibiotic therapy.

>

> I've only been on it one week, but I can't tell a difference. In

> fact, if anything, feel a bit worse. I know about the Herxheimer

> reaction, and realize that could be this (although this is very

> slight). I also know that AP therapy can take months before noticing

> a difference.

>

> But here's my question, although it may be a stupid question: Why not

> be placed on something like Amox-Clav (like I was for surgery and

> after surgery) which worked INSTANTLY? Why the tetracycline based

> antibiotics which can take months or a year or longer to MAYBE have a

> difference?

>

> I'd LOVE to be back on the Amox-Clav or something like it to feel

> normal quick like that. It obviously did something right to be able

> to make me feel that great that quick.

>

> If anyone knows the answer, I'd love to hear it! Thanks!

>

[Guest guest]

Unless I missed it, you never said what your " autoimmune problems " were.

rheumatic Why not Amox-Clav instead of Tetracycline based

antibiotics?

I'm new here, this is my first post.

Bit of background... I have a pre-med background so I'm big into

researching a lot on my own about my health issues. Back in April I

found out I was going to need septoplasty surgery to fix a slew of

problems with my sinuses, in hopes to stop chronic migraines that were

fairly new (just a couple years).

I had sinus problems my entire life. Chronic drainage, etc. I did

research and found that a big cause of chronic sinusitis is

mycoplasma. I did more research, and started wondering that if they

fix the sinus problems, not only could it stop my migraines, but could

it help or stop my autoimmune problems? I wasn't sure, but research I

had done suggested that mycoplasma was an underlying cause of

autoimmune issues. At this point, I didn't know about antibiotic

therapy for autoimmune problems.

Sure as the world, after surgery, despite the pain from the surgery

itself, I felt GREAT! All my joint pains were gone, I just felt

wonderful. After a few weeks of healing, I felt like a teenager

again. No pain, LOTS of energy, etc.

Unfortunately by mid-August, I started reverting slowly back to where

I was. That is what made me wonder if it was actually the antibiotics

that had made me feel so great.

My doctors do feel that I could indeed have an underlying infection

that could be triggering the autoimmune issues, but they don't want to

treat it with antibiotics. So, I did more research and found out

about The Road Back Foundation. Bingo! Through that I found a new

doctor that has placed me on antibiotic therapy.

I've only been on it one week, but I can't tell a difference. In

fact, if anything, feel a bit worse. I know about the Herxheimer

reaction, and realize that could be this (although this is very

slight). I also know that AP therapy can take months before noticing

a difference.

But here's my question, although it may be a stupid question: Why not

be placed on something like Amox-Clav (like I was for surgery and

after surgery) which worked INSTANTLY? Why the tetracycline based

antibiotics which can take months or a year or longer to MAYBE have a

difference?

I'd LOVE to be back on the Amox-Clav or something like it to feel

normal quick like that. It obviously did something right to be able

to make me feel that great that quick.

If anyone knows the answer, I'd love to hear it! Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Guess I need to clarify some things based on some of these posts.

I felt better (autoimmune-wise) immediately after surgery, which was

the end of April. I felt that good through August - so for 4 months.

No way it would be a sympathetic/parasympathetic reaction to surgery

lasting that long.

I had chronic sinus issues since I was a child. So yes, I realize I

had a sespool of bacteria up there for a couple of decades. Also

realize it could have become fungal.

I know I already had a systemic yeast infection (before surgery) -

probably due to the chronic infection. I know that my body was

probably very acidic just due to the nature of having that bacterial

infection for so many years, yeast overgrowth - all that makes the

body acidic.

So a couple of weeks after surgery, I had started going away from a

traditional diet and went more to a raw/vegetarian diet. I also

started taking things such as digestive enzymes (to help remove fibrin

and make body more oxygenated), probiotics, Colostrum - all to help

attempt to " reset " my body after surgery. And yes, I quit eating

anything with yeast or gluten, and no sugar at all. I have been very

strict on this diet. (And yes, I am still getting plenty of protein)

But once again, I have no doubt it was the antibiotics given during

surgery and after surgery that probably killed off enough of the

bacteria to make a significant difference in my autoimmune issues.

That is why it also makes sense that it only lasted a few months (gave

time after antibiotics for remaining bacteria to re-multiply).

All this still goes back to my original question though. Why won't

these doctors that do AP therapy give regular broad spectrum

antibiotics (not long term, but just as a kick start) in addition to

the tetracycline based ones, especially if knowing that the patient

already had a TREMENDOUS response to that?

I know that the Tetracycline based antibiotics are designed to go in

and prevent bacteria like mycoplasma from multiplying, but why not

also give just like a 10-30 day supply of the broad spectrum to go in

and kill off some of this?

I know it couldn't really be much longer than that due to potential

bacteria resistance to that broad spectrum antibiotic. That would not

be good. Not just for the mycoplasma but any other bacteria you might

develop.

I am just wondering medically, when the patient has already shown

improvement on a broad spectrum antibiotic, why an AP therapy doctor

won't give that in addition to the tetracycline antibiotics?

Thanks!!! : )

Misty

>

> From: Jeffery <jefferysahotmail (DOT)

<mailto:jefferysa%40hotmail.com> com>

> Subject: RE: rheumatic Why not Amox-Clav instead of Tetracycline

based antibiotics?

> rheumatic@grou <mailto:rheumatic%40> ps.com

> Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 6:23 PM

>

> Maybe the explanation truly is the the antibiotics. Though another

possibility

> lies in the body's response to trauma (given that surgery is really just

> well orchestrated trauma). I had major surgery this year and experienced

> similar temporary improvements of autoimmune symptoms, though I had

not been

> given antibiotics during surgery or afterward. I asked my rheum. He

claimed it

> is not unusual. That it can be a physiological response to trauma, the

> body's normal as well as abnormal functions give way to an

autonomic-like

> response of the body to the trauma. Part of the body's response to an

> emergency (which it thinks surgery is) is to kick the sympathetic

network into

> gear, and other functions (circulatory, lymphatic, etc.) follow from

that and

> are likewise altered to prepare for the worst.

>

> Afterward, I recalled watching some Nat Geo program on TV that had a

lone hiker

> falling around 40 feet over a cliff. She was badly injured, bad leg

fracture,

> but claimed that she felt no pain. She wrapped it good with what she

had and

> crawled a good distance until she was found. She said the first pain

she felt

> was when she was loaded on the rescue helicopter. They explained it

by saying

> that her response probably was trigered before she hit the ground,

that falling

> itself was enough for the body to go into an emergency mode. The

brain and the

> CNS can then automatically and temporarily shunt or physically block

neural pain

> and sensory impulses in anticipation of trauma. Once she sensed the

relief of

> rescue, the body's extreme response was stopped. It's the classic

> sympathetic/parasympathetic physiological response. This is an

extreme example,

> but it is true that the sympathetic/parasympathetic response does

not have to be

> this dramatic. It still functions at lower levels of trauma, and

maybe that is

> what is driving some post-surgery improvements. In autoimmune

diseases, we

> think of the immune system as fuctioning abnormally. Really though

it is just

> the body incorrectly applying normal bodily processes. So it seems

reasonable

> that if those normal processes are potentially altered due to

trauma, then even

> the factor driving the autoimmunity could be temporarily affected.

>

> Jeff

>

> rheumatic@grou <mailto:rheumatic%40> ps.com

> From: brn_eye_grl@ <mailto:brn_eye_grl%40>

> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:46:54 +0000

> Subject: rheumatic Why not Amox-Clav instead of Tetracycline based

> antibiotics?

>

> I'm new here, this is my first post.

>

> Bit of background... I have a pre-med background so I'm big into

>

> researching a lot on my own about my health issues. Back in April I

>

> found out I was going to need septoplasty surgery to fix a slew of

>

> problems with my sinuses, in hopes to stop chronic migraines that were

>

> fairly new (just a couple years).

>

> I had sinus problems my entire life. Chronic drainage, etc. I did

>

> research and found that a big cause of chronic sinusitis is

>

> mycoplasma. I did more research, and started wondering that if they

>

> fix the sinus problems, not only could it stop my migraines, but could

>

> it help or stop my autoimmune problems? I wasn't sure, but research I

>

> had done suggested that mycoplasma was an underlying cause of

>

> autoimmune issues. At this point, I didn't know about antibiotic

>

> therapy for autoimmune problems.

>

> Sure as the world, after surgery, despite the pain from the surgery

>

> itself, I felt GREAT! All my joint pains were gone, I just felt

>

> wonderful. After a few weeks of healing, I felt like a teenager

>

> again. No pain, LOTS of energy, etc.

>

> Unfortunately by mid-August, I started reverting slowly back to where

>

> I was. That is what made me wonder if it was actually the antibiotics

>

> that had made me feel so great.

>

> My doctors do feel that I could indeed have an underlying infection

>

> that could be triggering the autoimmune issues, but they don't want to

>

> treat it with antibiotics. So, I did more research and found out

>

> about The Road Back Foundation. Bingo! Through that I found a new

>

> doctor that has placed me on antibiotic therapy.

>

> I've only been on it one week, but I can't tell a difference. In

>

> fact, if anything, feel a bit worse. I know about the Herxheimer

>

> reaction, and realize that could be this (although this is very

>

> slight). I also know that AP therapy can take months before noticing

>

> a difference.

>

> But here's my question, although it may be a stupid question: Why not

>

> be placed on something like Amox-Clav (like I was for surgery and

>

> after surgery) which worked INSTANTLY? Why the tetracycline based

>

> antibiotics which can take months or a year or longer to MAYBE have a

>

> difference?

>

> I'd LOVE to be back on the Amox-Clav or something like it to feel

>

> normal quick like that. It obviously did something right to be able

>

> to make me feel that great that quick.

>

> If anyone knows the answer, I'd love to hear it! Thanks!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________________

> When your life is on the goè`‰ake your life with you.

> http://clk.atdmt. <http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/>

com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>>I am just wondering medically, when the patient has already shown

improvement on a broad spectrum antibiotic, why an AP therapy doctor

won't give that in addition to the tetracycline antibiotics?<<<

Hi Misty,

As far as I know, Dr Brown employed a number of different classes of

antibiotics with his patients. However, he was cautious with the penicillins, as

these

seem to drive mycoplasma into L-Forms. You can read more about this in " The

Infection Connection, " by Dr. M. Poehlmann. Also, some classes of

antibiotics are contraindicated in combo with tetracyclines...amoxy will nullify

a tetracycline, for instance, and I believe I read something about renal

hypertension when taken in combination.

Today, a number of AP patients are on combination therapy, myself included. I

take minocin 100mg twice a day, plus azithromycin, a broad spectrum

macrolide, once every week.

It probably depends on the AP doc as to what protocol they will prescribe.

>>>I know that the Tetracycline based antibiotics are designed to go in

and prevent bacteria like mycoplasma from multiplying, but why not

also give just like a 10-30 day supply of the broad spectrum to go in

and kill off some of this? <<<

Good question. I gather that because myco are " slow infections " and more

prone to bacteriostatics, like tetracyclines or macrolides, at certain points in

their life cycle. Also, because mycos are cell wall deficients (CWDs), they

don't respond to abx like penicillins - bacteriocides - that compromise cell

walls. Bacteriostatics don't kill mycoplasma either...they just interfere with

certain enzyme and protein process that inhibit their ability to replicate and

grow. My laymans' understanding is that it's the immune system which does the

killing, not AP. AP just suppresses mycoplasma to the point where the immune

system can take over and function normally.

All the best in your searches for the best protocol for you!

Peace, Maz

[Guest guest]

I too had surgery unrelated to my arthritis, had antibiotics during surgery,

was much improved afterwards w/ my arthritis. This happened in 1997, and it

sent me to the internet also and found this list. I was going to a rhuemy

that is not an " AP Dr " but when I asked if I could try antibiotics, he DID

let me try a oral version of what I had had during surgery. That was the

start of AP for me. I can't remember how long I was on it, but eventually I

switched to other antibiotics including minocine. I wish I could have tried

IV again (after surgery) but my insurance didn't pay for that so I stuck to

oral. The results were not as impressive as after surgery, but there was

some improvement.

Cari

AS 1983