Guest guest Posted January 15, 2002 Report Share Posted January 15, 2002 In a message dated 1/14/2002 3:23:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, beesnees@... writes: << (Soy cheese isn't bad, really), >> I don't know the brand name, but Veggie Slices in American are EXCELLENT, Swiss is ok, but the Bleu cheese sucks - in my opinion say cheese?? )) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2002 Report Share Posted March 31, 2002 > One of my friends has a terrible time eating dairy products. She's > eating from the same sources I am--raw milk from grass-fed Jersey > cows, cheese from Meadowcreek Dairy. Yet she is still getting > terrible sinus infections and ear aches when she eats more than a > little bit. Softer products are worse, eg milk or sour cream vs > cheese. Is there anything that can be done? She doesn't have any > intestinal problems with dairy. Thanks. > Lierre Hi Lierre, Many on the Live-Food list have the experience that raw dairy products accelerate and intensify any existing bacterial/fungal infection in the respiratory tract, through its own bacterial/fungal content and its tendancy to increase mucous production. Depending on your orientation, it is a good thing as it speeds detoxification of those tissues (if you can stand it); or it is a bad thing as it may be hurting the tissues by contributing to and prolonging the infection. Most on the Live-Food group would go with the former explanation. That said, many find they can tolerate kefir better, as it seems to reduce mucous production rather than increase it. Dom's site is a very good source for info on kefir. http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html#what's-kefir Portland, OR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2002 Report Share Posted March 31, 2002 >>raw dairy products accelerate and intensify any existing bacterial/fungal infection in >>the respiratory tract, through its own bacterial/fungal content and its tendancy to increase >>mucous production. Depending on your orientation, it is a good thing as it speeds >>detoxification of those tissues (if you can stand it); or it is a bad thing as it may be >>hurting the tissues by contributing to and prolonging the infection. I am very interested in documenting the above. Anyone have any sources? Thanks! ine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2002 Report Share Posted March 31, 2002 Lierre- >Is there anything that can be done? She doesn't have any >intestinal problems with dairy. Thanks. I'm not familiar with the phenomenon describes, but there are several things your friend can try. First, switching from plain raw milk to fermented dairy products like yoghurt or, as suggested, kefir. Second, if she's been eating the basic Meadowcreek cheeses, try the Select versions, which have been aged longer. Third, switch from cow's milk to goat's milk and drink fermented goat's milk, as goat's milk tends to be easier to tolerate for some people than cow's milk. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2002 Report Share Posted April 1, 2002 At 05:31 PM 3/31/2002 +0000, you wrote: >One of my friends has a terrible time eating dairy products. She's >eating from the same sources I am--raw milk from grass-fed Jersey >cows, cheese from Meadowcreek Dairy. Yet she is still getting >terrible sinus infections and ear aches when she eats more than a >little bit. Softer products are worse, eg milk or sour cream vs >cheese. Is there anything that can be done? She doesn't have any >intestinal problems with dairy. Thanks. >Lierre If she has " leaky gut " or some other problems, she may have a problem with the casein. There is little casein in, say, butter, but lots in milk. This is a common complication of wheat intolerance: often when the gut heals (after avoiding wheat/barley gluten) then casein is ok again, but sometimes not. This is a very different problem than " lactose intolerance " . Lactose intolerance is usually felt in the gut, and is helped by fermenting the milk. And it may be the case that some people are just allergic to casein like some people are allergic to gluten, but there is little research on that. For casein problems, it does not matter if the casein is from organic raw milk or not: it's the shape of the protein that counts. Goat milk may be better than cow milk though, for some people. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2002 Report Share Posted April 1, 2002 Heidi what is leaky gut, it seems that i have some or all of the symptoms you listed inaddition to not being able to eat anything on a consistant basis even cod liver oil without eventually creating indigestion problems. Thanks for any info you forward Tim Heidi Schuppenhauer wrote: > At 05:31 PM 3/31/2002 +0000, you wrote: > >One of my friends has a terrible time eating dairy products. She's > >eating from the same sources I am--raw milk from grass-fed Jersey > >cows, cheese from Meadowcreek Dairy. Yet she is still getting > >terrible sinus infections and ear aches when she eats more than a > >little bit. Softer products are worse, eg milk or sour cream vs > >cheese. Is there anything that can be done? She doesn't have any > >intestinal problems with dairy. Thanks. > >Lierre > > If she has " leaky gut " or some other problems, she may have a problem with > the casein. There is little casein in, say, butter, but lots in milk. This > is a common complication of wheat intolerance: often when the gut heals > (after avoiding wheat/barley gluten) then casein is ok again, but sometimes > not. > > This is a very different problem than " lactose intolerance " . Lactose > intolerance is usually felt in the gut, and is helped by fermenting the > milk. And it may be the case that some people are just allergic to casein > like some people are allergic to gluten, but there is little research on > that. For casein problems, it does not matter if the casein is from organic > raw milk or not: it's the shape of the protein that counts. Goat milk may > be better than cow milk though, for some people. > > -- Heidi > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2002 Report Share Posted April 1, 2002 At 09:15 AM 4/1/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Heidi >what is leaky gut, it seems that i have some or all of the symptoms you >listed > >inaddition to not being able to eat anything on a consistant basis even >cod >liver oil without eventually creating indigestion problems. >Thanks for any info you forward >Tim I'm not an expert on leaky gut. I think I have it to some degree, but probably as a result of celiac, and the problems I've been having are getting much much better since avoiding gluten (which also means avoiding most manufactured products: it's really hard to avoid, but getting rid of the manufactured products also no doubt has lots of other health benefits I don't know about). Oil digestion problems probably aren't a result of leaky gut: it could be a side-effect of Celiac (or " Neo-Celiac " -- there are a lot of people who seem to have Celiac symptoms and are cured by the Celiac diet, but who don't test positive for the antibodies involved). That turned out to be my problem, and, coincidentally, my husband's (who can now eat fat just fine). Or other pancreas/liver/gall bladder problems. I didn't keep the link, but there was a really interesting one posted under the " Dietary Fat and Liver Health " thread (I can't get to to check it out: it keeps saying " too busy " . Why the gut may be leaky ==================== Something like 1 in 100 or 1 in 200 (depending on who you talk to: the numbers keep going up!) people in the US have a damaged upper intestine. The villi get attacked and eventually destroyed by the person's own immune system, and somehow -- I haven't followed all the science involved -- the upper gut gets thinner in the process. This auto-immune process is known to be triggered by one protein string in wheat, in which case it is called Celiac Disease, but some people think it may be triggered by other proteins as well. The numbers of people affected are probably greater than 1 in 100, because it isn't diagnosable at this point until it is fairly bad (the person can be reacting but not show up positive on a test yet or have a lot of gut damage). 1 in 3 people have " the gene " though. In addition to making the gut thin, Celiac also causes the T cells to stop working well (making the person prone to cancer), and it causes changes in the skin cells and the mucous cells throughout the body, making one prone to skin problems and nasal infections. And, as discussed earlier, it interferes with the pancreas and gall bladder and liver, which interferes with digestion big time, especially for fats and lactose. There may be some evidence that a protein in casein and/or eggs may cause the same kind of attack as the one in gluten, but it's mostly speculation I think, at this point. Also, in some people, the gut is thin to begin with. Babies and young children always have thin guts. Some people are diagnosed with " leaky gut syndrome " but nothing else -- but since Celiac is almost never tested for, it's not clear to me that there ISN'T another problem causing the leaky gut. In any case, the permeability of the gut varies from person to person. Could be that polyunsaturated fats make it worse, with all this talk about epethelial permeability! What happens when the gut is leaky ========================== In any case, if the gut is thin, then proteins and little protein bits leak into the bloodstream. where they wreak all kinds of havoc and are thought to be a significant factor in many diseases, including but not limited to autism, arthritis, lupis, Asperger's, and MS. It also causes food allergies, because the proteins get into the blood and the more usual allergic system (histimine) gets sensitized. Then eating the food causes the proteins (and casein is a BIG TIME offender in this) to leak in to the blood, causing the sinuses to get stuffed up (causing a propensity to nasal infections) and for some people, opioids to be produced which affect brain activity, and other nasty reactions to happen. Treatment ======= Treatment I'm not sure about. Some people are taking Glutamine, which is supposed to help: but if the problem is caused by Celiac then it may make the problem worse. If the problem is caused by Celiac, then after avoiding gluten for awhile, the gut heals. If the gut is just naturally thinner than usual, then the person needs to avoid the proteins that cause problems (usually grains, milk, and maybe beans). I would think the NT diet is good for it in general, because fermenting etc. helps break down the proteins, but I'm just speculating on that. Anyway, good luck to you. I don't have any links on leaky gut per se: here are my favorite ones about Celiac though: http://www.celiac.com/history.html http://www.aafp.org/afp/980301ap/pruessn.html -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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