Re: So confused RT3, adrenal--nothing has helped

[Guest guest]

If you wait until the adrenal group reopens and post this there, you may get

more response.

Two things jump out at me from your story:

1) Small doses of HC turn off more cortisol production than they replace. This

hapened to me when I was put on 5 mg of HC, then 7.5, then 15. It made me much,

much worse than before I started HC.

2) It takes 12 weeks of T3 only to clear RT3 form the cells. Low RT3 levels will

show up on blood tests before that, but RT3 will still be there blocking the

cells. Have you ever taken T3 only for a 12 week period?

Have you addressed the reason why you developed high RT3? Have you had ferritin

checked?

Heidi

[Guest guest]

I have to agree with Heidi. I think you probably still have an RT3 issue and

that you never cleared it in the first place. And the about of Cortef you were

on is too low. If you have low cortisol I think you need to be on at least 20 mg

of Cortef or you will feel worse than not being on it at all.

Usually it takes 12 weeks and most people get up to between 75 and 125 mcg of T3

to clear a RT3 issue. You should read Nick's info on T3 dosing...actually all

the info on his site would be helpful. You can find it here:

http://thyroid-rt3.com/

The dosing info is here:

http://thyroid-rt3.com/dosing.htm

You can also probably find some good info on Adrenal Fatigue on Janie's STTM

site at:

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

I also suggest you read the book " Safe Use of Cortisol " which has a lot of

information about using Hydrocortisone for treating low cortisol. The book is a

bit pricey, so I know there are some people who are turned off by that, but for

me it was a real eye opener.

Hope that helps.

--Steph

>

> I'm so confused. I started all this adrenal/thyroid treatment 1/2009. I had

symptoms of low thyroid and my worst problem was muscle pain which has been

chronic for four years after an ovary was removed during surgery.

>

> After posting initial labs on the RTH board and also the old pituitary board

with I was told by several I was secondary AI and to lose my 3 endos that

said all was normal with me.

>

> I did that and found holistic doctor who started me on Armour and Cortef but

he kept me at 1.5 grains and 10mg Cortef only.

>

> I continued to have the same issues and the board moderators said I was not on

enough of either. I upped my Cortef to 15mg around June 09 and have stayed there

ever since.

>

> I eventually was found to have high RT3 and did low doses of T3 with NT per

the doctor. Then I went up to 37.5mcg of T3 only for a few weeks and the RT3

came back normal. I was then put back on NT and started over and worked up to

2.5 grains as of now.

>

> However all this time I never have felt 100% better. My chronic muscle pain

that is mostly in the low back and hips due to trigger knots and possibly

structural?? But I was told by many that low adrenals cause fatigue and muscle

pain, and that getting T3 up helps with triggers and fibro type pain.

>

> Well it's now 14 months and I'm still suffering this pain.

>

> When I read back in my journal of symptoms, I notice erratic temps most of the

time and low, then higher and somewhat stable, then higher, but not stable. Then

I get stable temps but low, but still have the same muscle stiffness, pain,

spasms, the same daily problem.

>

> The only change I've noticed is that mentally I want to do more and at times I

can, but the pain is always there. I notice that when I get easily stressed the

pain, of course, worsens.

>

> I am now really starting to question if my endos were correct all the time.

I'm worried that I may not have needed the adrenal hormone and I've not

suppressed them and ruined them in some way.

>

> I am thinking maybe to wean off the HC and stop the thyroid treatment too.

>

> What will happen if I do this? Is my thyroid and adrenals now dependent on

outside hormone?

>

> I've been to several P/Ts, neurologists, massage therapists, and now

acupuncturist and the problem is still with me.

>

> I'm wondering at times if it is adrenal and I have never been on high enough

dose and if I should raise up to 25 and hold? But then I'm afraid I may never be

able to get off it and I don't like taking it.

>

> I had the pain before this treatment, and I had during the treatment too.

>

> At this point I don't know what to do.

>

> I do have RT3 issue again, but I'm on Erfa for now per the doctor. However,

when I was on the T3 and my level was over the T3 range, I was still having

unstable temps and same body pain with over the range T3.

>

> So if T3 helps with fibro type pain and my level was over the range and I

still have the stiffness, aches, spasms, then maybe all this was for the wrong

reason.

>

> Maybe I need to get injections back there and forget the thyroid and adrenals?

>

> I'm so depressed. I feel like I screwed up.

>

[Guest guest]

I have to agree with Heidi. I think you probably still have an RT3 issue and

that you never cleared it in the first place. And the about of Cortef you were

on is too low. If you have low cortisol I think you need to be on at least 20 mg

of Cortef or you will feel worse than not being on it at all.

Usually it takes 12 weeks and most people get up to between 75 and 125 mcg of T3

to clear a RT3 issue. You should read Nick's info on T3 dosing...actually all

the info on his site would be helpful. You can find it here:

http://thyroid-rt3.com/

The dosing info is here:

http://thyroid-rt3.com/dosing.htm

You can also probably find some good info on Adrenal Fatigue on Janie's STTM

site at:

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

I also suggest you read the book " Safe Use of Cortisol " which has a lot of

information about using Hydrocortisone for treating low cortisol. The book is a

bit pricey, so I know there are some people who are turned off by that, but for

me it was a real eye opener.

Hope that helps.

--Steph

>

> I'm so confused. I started all this adrenal/thyroid treatment 1/2009. I had

symptoms of low thyroid and my worst problem was muscle pain which has been

chronic for four years after an ovary was removed during surgery.

>

> After posting initial labs on the RTH board and also the old pituitary board

with I was told by several I was secondary AI and to lose my 3 endos that

said all was normal with me.

>

> I did that and found holistic doctor who started me on Armour and Cortef but

he kept me at 1.5 grains and 10mg Cortef only.

>

> I continued to have the same issues and the board moderators said I was not on

enough of either. I upped my Cortef to 15mg around June 09 and have stayed there

ever since.

>

> I eventually was found to have high RT3 and did low doses of T3 with NT per

the doctor. Then I went up to 37.5mcg of T3 only for a few weeks and the RT3

came back normal. I was then put back on NT and started over and worked up to

2.5 grains as of now.

>

> However all this time I never have felt 100% better. My chronic muscle pain

that is mostly in the low back and hips due to trigger knots and possibly

structural?? But I was told by many that low adrenals cause fatigue and muscle

pain, and that getting T3 up helps with triggers and fibro type pain.

>

> Well it's now 14 months and I'm still suffering this pain.

>

> When I read back in my journal of symptoms, I notice erratic temps most of the

time and low, then higher and somewhat stable, then higher, but not stable. Then

I get stable temps but low, but still have the same muscle stiffness, pain,

spasms, the same daily problem.

>

> The only change I've noticed is that mentally I want to do more and at times I

can, but the pain is always there. I notice that when I get easily stressed the

pain, of course, worsens.

>

> I am now really starting to question if my endos were correct all the time.

I'm worried that I may not have needed the adrenal hormone and I've not

suppressed them and ruined them in some way.

>

> I am thinking maybe to wean off the HC and stop the thyroid treatment too.

>

> What will happen if I do this? Is my thyroid and adrenals now dependent on

outside hormone?

>

> I've been to several P/Ts, neurologists, massage therapists, and now

acupuncturist and the problem is still with me.

>

> I'm wondering at times if it is adrenal and I have never been on high enough

dose and if I should raise up to 25 and hold? But then I'm afraid I may never be

able to get off it and I don't like taking it.

>

> I had the pain before this treatment, and I had during the treatment too.

>

> At this point I don't know what to do.

>

> I do have RT3 issue again, but I'm on Erfa for now per the doctor. However,

when I was on the T3 and my level was over the T3 range, I was still having

unstable temps and same body pain with over the range T3.

>

> So if T3 helps with fibro type pain and my level was over the range and I

still have the stiffness, aches, spasms, then maybe all this was for the wrong

reason.

>

> Maybe I need to get injections back there and forget the thyroid and adrenals?

>

> I'm so depressed. I feel like I screwed up.

>

[Guest guest]

Have you had your electrolytes checked and are they on the higher

side, as in 144 for Sodium and 4.2-4.4 for potassium?

I only say that, as my potassium levels were near the bottom and when

I got mine up to the 4.2 level, the muscle pain (and diarrhea) disappeared.

AND my " frozen shoulder " became unfrozen on its own when PT didn't help at all.

I actually graphed my levels out for my doc to see. It helped her

to increase my potassium doses when she was reluctant.

Deb in MI

>

> I'm so confused. I started all this adrenal/thyroid treatment 1/2009. I had

symptoms of low thyroid and my worst problem was muscle pain which has been

chronic for four years after an ovary was removed during surgery.

>

> After posting initial labs on the RTH board and also the old pituitary board

with I was told by several I was secondary AI and to lose my 3 endos that

said all was normal with me.

>

> I did that and found holistic doctor who started me on Armour and Cortef but

he kept me at 1.5 grains and 10mg Cortef only.

>

> I continued to have the same issues and the board moderators said I was not on

enough of either. I upped my Cortef to 15mg around June 09 and have stayed there

ever since.

>

> I eventually was found to have high RT3 and did low doses of T3 with NT per

the doctor. Then I went up to 37.5mcg of T3 only for a few weeks and the RT3

came back normal. I was then put back on NT and started over and worked up to

2.5 grains as of now.

>

> However all this time I never have felt 100% better. My chronic muscle pain

that is mostly in the low back and hips due to trigger knots and possibly

structural?? But I was told by many that low adrenals cause fatigue and muscle

pain, and that getting T3 up helps with triggers and fibro type pain.

>

> Well it's now 14 months and I'm still suffering this pain.

>

> When I read back in my journal of symptoms, I notice erratic temps most of the

time and low, then higher and somewhat stable, then higher, but not stable. Then

I get stable temps but low, but still have the same muscle stiffness, pain,

spasms, the same daily problem.

>

> The only change I've noticed is that mentally I want to do more and at times I

can, but the pain is always there. I notice that when I get easily stressed the

pain, of course, worsens.

>

> I am now really starting to question if my endos were correct all the time.

I'm worried that I may not have needed the adrenal hormone and I've not

suppressed them and ruined them in some way.

>

> I am thinking maybe to wean off the HC and stop the thyroid treatment too.

>

> What will happen if I do this? Is my thyroid and adrenals now dependent on

outside hormone?

>

> I've been to several P/Ts, neurologists, massage therapists, and now

acupuncturist and the problem is still with me.

>

> I'm wondering at times if it is adrenal and I have never been on high enough

dose and if I should raise up to 25 and hold? But then I'm afraid I may never be

able to get off it and I don't like taking it.

>

> I had the pain before this treatment, and I had during the treatment too.

>

> At this point I don't know what to do.

>

> I do have RT3 issue again, but I'm on Erfa for now per the doctor. However,

when I was on the T3 and my level was over the T3 range, I was still having

unstable temps and same body pain with over the range T3.

>

> So if T3 helps with fibro type pain and my level was over the range and I

still have the stiffness, aches, spasms, then maybe all this was for the wrong

reason.

>

> Maybe I need to get injections back there and forget the thyroid and adrenals?

>

> I'm so depressed. I feel like I screwed up.

>

[Guest guest]

Based on Dr. Holtorf's chronic fatigue " cycle of dysfunction " , there could be

some other factors involved. Maybe you could look that over and see if you have

covered those bases.

Have you looked into the infection aspect for example? Many fibro patients have

turned out to have lyme, for example. Some chronic infections can be dormant

and managed by your immune system until a stressor, like your surgery.

I had really bad pain in the past until I treated lyme, now there is hardly any

at all even though this last year I have gone through a lot of problems with

thyroid, RT3, etc. I also turned out to have a persistent strongyloides

infection.

I don't want to go too far off topic with this, but I would be glad to suggest a

couple of labs to consider if you send me an email.

Sherry

>

> I'm so confused. I started all this adrenal/thyroid treatment 1/2009. I had

symptoms of low thyroid and my worst problem was muscle pain which has been

chronic for four years after an ovary was removed during surgery.

>

> After posting initial labs on the RTH board and also the old pituitary board

with I was told by several I was secondary AI and to lose my 3 endos that

said all was normal with me.

>

> I did that and found holistic doctor who started me on Armour and Cortef but

he kept me at 1.5 grains and 10mg Cortef only.

>

> I continued to have the same issues and the board moderators said I was not on

enough of either. I upped my Cortef to 15mg around June 09 and have stayed there

ever since.

>

> I eventually was found to have high RT3 and did low doses of T3 with NT per

the doctor. Then I went up to 37.5mcg of T3 only for a few weeks and the RT3

came back normal. I was then put back on NT and started over and worked up to

2.5 grains as of now.

>

> However all this time I never have felt 100% better. My chronic muscle pain

that is mostly in the low back and hips due to trigger knots and possibly

structural?? But I was told by many that low adrenals cause fatigue and muscle

pain, and that getting T3 up helps with triggers and fibro type pain.

>

> Well it's now 14 months and I'm still suffering this pain.

>

> When I read back in my journal of symptoms, I notice erratic temps most of the

time and low, then higher and somewhat stable, then higher, but not stable. Then

I get stable temps but low, but still have the same muscle stiffness, pain,

spasms, the same daily problem.

>

> The only change I've noticed is that mentally I want to do more and at times I

can, but the pain is always there. I notice that when I get easily stressed the

pain, of course, worsens.

>

> I am now really starting to question if my endos were correct all the time.

I'm worried that I may not have needed the adrenal hormone and I've not

suppressed them and ruined them in some way.

>

> I am thinking maybe to wean off the HC and stop the thyroid treatment too.

>

> What will happen if I do this? Is my thyroid and adrenals now dependent on

outside hormone?

>

> I've been to several P/Ts, neurologists, massage therapists, and now

acupuncturist and the problem is still with me.

>

> I'm wondering at times if it is adrenal and I have never been on high enough

dose and if I should raise up to 25 and hold? But then I'm afraid I may never be

able to get off it and I don't like taking it.

>

> I had the pain before this treatment, and I had during the treatment too.

>

> At this point I don't know what to do.

>

> I do have RT3 issue again, but I'm on Erfa for now per the doctor. However,

when I was on the T3 and my level was over the T3 range, I was still having

unstable temps and same body pain with over the range T3.

>

> So if T3 helps with fibro type pain and my level was over the range and I

still have the stiffness, aches, spasms, then maybe all this was for the wrong

reason.

>

> Maybe I need to get injections back there and forget the thyroid and adrenals?

>

> I'm so depressed. I feel like I screwed up.

>