FAQ

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sheri. So do you get this at a health food store or vitamin store?

Sounds

interesting.

Venizia

> > > >

> > > > Does anyone know if Hashimoto's thyroiditis can cause early aging.

> > > I am 52 and need both hip replaced and was diagnosed witha cataract.

> > > Just investiagting if it has to do with my autoimmune diseases (HT).

> > > >

> > > > Thanks, Jodi in CA

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Yes,

I would be interested too.

Thanks!!

venizia1948 <nelsonck@...> wrote:

Thanks Sheri. So do you get this at a health food store or vitamin

store? Sounds

interesting.

Venizia

> > > >

> > > > Does anyone know if Hashimoto's thyroiditis can cause early aging.

> > > I am 52 and need both hip replaced and was diagnosed witha cataract.

> > > Just investiagting if it has to do with my autoimmune diseases (HT).

> > > >

> > > > Thanks, Jodi in CA

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

I don't really know anything about it, but Reliv has many of the typical

attributes of a multiple level marketing scam based upon links like this:

http://knowthefactsfirst.com/?gclid=CLrHvOSOy4sCFQH2QAodKXXnBQ

Here's something else I found:

" We have been receiving numerous reports of a scam involving Reliv

International known as the Reliv Scam.

These complaints focus on Reliv International as an MLM marketing scheme

so we decided to investigate.

Reliv International was founded in 1988 by Bob Montgomery and

manufactures natural supplements and products in 8 countries and made

into an independent distribution mlm company.

Reliv International is structured as a MLM company. There are multiple

pyramid levels which ensure sellers on the upper levels are making money

off the people at the lower levels. Find out more about Pyrmid Scams

here. <http://www.corporatenarc.com/pyramid.php>

Although Reliv International many be an MLM company this does not mean

it is illegal. However, like almost all MLM companies there are numerous

complaints to be found by searching online Reliv supplements.

Our research shows that 99.9% of people who participate in the Reliv

international MLM fail. The average failure rate of all MLM members

throughout the US is 90%.

Although there are various complaints online regarding the mlm Reliv

Scam we were unable to find any significant information regarding Reliv

illegal supplement activities regarding the possibility of a Reliv scam.

This in no way means we endorse Reliv. "

End of quote.

The author goes on to say that as far as he knows Reliv's activities are

not illegal. I did note that one of their product lines is base on soy;

so that's enough info for me. If MLM is your bag it might be just the

thing for you.

Here's a letter sent to Reliv International, Inc. by the Department of

Health & Human Services about one of their products:

*DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH & HUMAN SERVICES*

*Public Health Service*

*Food and Drug Administration*

*St. Louis Branch*

12 Sunnen Drive, Suite 122

St. Louis, MO 63143-3800

(314) 645-1167

(314) 645-2969 (FAX)

December 16, 1998

*WARNING LETTER*

CERTIFIED MAIL

RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED

Mr. L. Montgomery

President and CEO

Reliv International, Inc.

136 Chesterfield Industrial Blvd.

Chesterfield, MO 63005

Dear Sir: This letter is in reference to your firm's marketing and

distribution of the product, " Arthaffect. " Promotional material

(labeling) for this product makes therapeutic claims that causes the

products to be a drug as defined in Section 201(g) of the Federal Food,

Drug, and Cosmetic Act (the Act).

Examples of the claims include the following:

* " A breakthrough in the fight against degenerative joint conditions " ;

* " Published clinical studies [include references to] osteoarthritis

. . . osteo- and chondropathies . . . " ;

* " Whether your joints ache from age or an active lifestyle, Reliv

Arthaffect does more than treat the symptoms of degenerative joint

conditions - it focuses on the source of the problems " ;

* " Traditional joint products simply treat the symptoms of

degenerative joint conditions. In contrast, Reliv Arthaffect

focuses on the source of these problems . . . " ;

* " H contains patented Arthred, a protein proven to help fight

degenerative joint conditions " ;

* " . . . active people who refuse to slow down because of the pain

of degenerative jointconditions " ; and " Fights degenerative joint

conditions " ; and " Tired of joint pain. "

The product is a " new drug " because there is no evidence that it is

generally recognized as safe and effective for its intended use [section

201 (p) of the Act]. Therefore, it may not be legally marketed in this

country without an approved new Drug Application [section 505(a) of the

Act].

It is also misbranded because its labeling fails to bear adequate

directions for use for the condition for which they offer it [section

502(f)(l) of the Actl. Its labeling is false and misleading as it

suggests that the product be safe and effective for its intended use

when, in fact, this has not been established [section 502(a) of the Act].

This letter is not intended to be an all-inclusive review of all

labeling and products your firm markets. It is your responsibility to

ensure that all products marketed by your firm are in compliance with

the Act and its implementing regulations.

We request that you take prompt action to correct these violations.

Failure to promptly correct these violations may result in enforcement

action being initiated by the Food and Drug Administration without

further notice. The Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act provides for

the seizure of illegal products and for an injlmction against the

manufacturer and/or distributor of illegal products.

Please notify this office in writing within fifteen (15) working days of

receipt of this letter as to the specific steps you have taken to

correct the stated violations. You should also include an explanation of

each step being taken to identify and make corrections to assure that

similar violations will not recur. If corrective action cannot be

completed within 15 working days, state the reason for the delay and the

time within which you will carry out the corrections.

Send your reply to the attention of H. Paeng, Compliance Officer,

12 Sunnen Drive, Suite 122, St. Louis, MO 63143-3800..

W. Mike

Director, Kansas City District

End of quote. This isn't the only one...

> FAQ

>

<hypothyroidism/message/27754;_ylc=X3oDMTJxODFtZmk\

yBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjc3NTQEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE3NjgwMjQ4Ng-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " sheri " 2themommie@...

> <mailto:2themommie@...?Subject=%20Re%3AFAQ>

> themommie2 <themommie2>

>

>

> Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:18 pm (PST)

>

>

> sure, reliv is a food supplement.It comes in powder form ,so that it

> goes directly to your cells.You mix it with any cold liquid and shake

> and drink it 2-4xs a day.Reliv has several patents on their

> products.It is extremely hard to get a patent on a food product.Any

> way it is absorbed 98% at the cellular level.It is just good optimal

> nutrition that helps your body to heal itself.I had tried all kinds of

> nutritional supplements with no results,but reliv is very concentrated

> and has a little bit of everything in it.ok I'm done with my

> commercial,LOL.

> Sorry I am just so excited that I found something that

> helps,that i want everyone else to experience the same results.It you

> have more questions just ask......sheri

>

>

> >

> > Hi Sheri,

> >

> > Can you tell me what is reliv? I have not heard of it. Thanks.

> >

> > Venizia

[Guest guest]

I was suspect of this when this person asked for my phone number before she

would give

any other information. I deleted her message right away. We have to be really

careful and

use common sense. This didn't sound right and now I find out I was correct.

Thanks

.

Venizia

> > >

> > > Hi Sheri,

> > >

> > > Can you tell me what is reliv? I have not heard of it. Thanks.

> > >

> > > Venizia

>

[Guest guest]

I am sorry.Other people share in this group share what helps them.I

was simply sharing that I had got amazing results with this

product.Someone asked me what it was so I answered them.Then someone

asked if they could have more info so I gave them more info. I was not

trying to scam anyone anymore then somebody saying they got results

from vicodin or accupunture

> > > >

> > > > Hi Sheri,

> > > >

> > > > Can you tell me what is reliv? I have not heard of it. Thanks.

> > > >

> > > > Venizia

> >

>

[Guest guest]

And I am just reporting what I found in a Google search; plus what I

surmise from the way the info was presented... Which caused me to

suspect at once that you are selling the product. That does not mean

that you are a scammer; but it does mean that you are not a

disinterested party. Salespersons almost always recommend the product

they sell; right???

I also meant to say, " I don't really know anything about it, but Reliv

has many of the

typical EARMARKS [NOT attributes] of a multiple level marketing scam

based upon links

like this... "

I know of no controlled studies of the effectiveness of Reliv; but I

rather suspect that a double blind experiment would yield approximately

the same results as a placebo. Maybe up to 20 or 30% positive. In any

event a cursory look does not reveal anything that could possibly treat

hypothyroidism. And the soy is definitely a no-no WRT hypothyroidism

[and, IMHO, for any other human also; but that's just one person's

opinion]. Backed up, incidentally, by a few hundred thousand hits on

" soy toxins " in Google.

If you want to know a bit about soy toxins then just put " soy toxins "

into Google. The number of hits you will get varies from over 600,000

and upwards. Just scan a few to get an idea of what is available...

If you've ever had a friend or relative get into the insurance selling

business you might better understand a lot of people's attitude toward

salespersons of that type.

>

> FAQ

>

<hypothyroidism/message/27809;_ylc=X3oDMTJxdmZybDZ\

wBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjc4MDkEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE3Njk3NjcxOA-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " sheri " 2themommie@...

> <mailto:2themommie@...?Subject=%20Re%3AFAQ>

> themommie2 <themommie2>

>

>

> Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:42 pm (PST)

>

>

> I am sorry.Other people share in this group share what helps them.I

> was simply sharing that I had got amazing results with this

> product.Someone asked me what it was so I answered them.Then someone

> asked if they could have more info so I gave them more info. I was not

> trying to scam anyone anymore then somebody saying they got results

> from vicodin or accupunture

>

>

> > >

> > > I don't really know anything about it, but Reliv has many of the

> typical

> > > attributes of a multiple level marketing scam based upon links

> like this:

> > >

> > > http://knowthefactsfirst.com/?gclid=CLrHvOSOy4sCFQH2QAodKXXnBQ

> <http://knowthefactsfirst.com/?gclid=CLrHvOSOy4sCFQH2QAodKXXnBQ>

> > >

> > > Here's something else I found:

> > >

> > > " We have been receiving numerous reports of a scam involving Reliv

> > > International known as the Reliv Scam.

> > >

> > > These complaints focus on Reliv International as an MLM marketing

> scheme

> > > so we decided to investigate.

> > >

> > > Reliv International was founded in 1988 by Bob Montgomery and

> > > manufactures natural supplements and products in 8 countries and made

> > > into an independent distribution mlm company.

> > >

> > > Reliv International is structured as a MLM company. There are

> multiple

> > > pyramid levels which ensure sellers on the upper levels are making

> money

> > > off the people at the lower levels. Find out more about Pyrmid Scams

> > > here. <http://www.corporatenarc.com/pyramid.php

> <http://www.corporatenarc.com/pyramid.php>>

> > >

> > > Although Reliv International many be an MLM company this does not

> mean

> > > it is illegal. However, like almost all MLM companies there are

> numerous

> > > complaints to be found by searching online Reliv supplements.

> > >

> > > Our research shows that 99.9% of people who participate in the Reliv

> > > international MLM fail. The average failure rate of all MLM members

> > > throughout the US is 90%.

> > >

> > > Although there are various complaints online regarding the mlm Reliv

> > > Scam we were unable to find any significant information regarding

> Reliv

> > > illegal supplement activities regarding the possibility of a Reliv

> scam.

> > > This in no way means we endorse Reliv. "

> > >

> > > End of quote.

> > >

> > > The author goes on to say that as far as he knows Reliv's

> activities are

> > > not illegal. I did note that one of their product lines is base

> on soy;

> > > so that's enough info for me. If MLM is your bag it might be just

> the

> > > thing for you.

> > >

> > > Here's a letter sent to Reliv International, Inc. by the

> Department of

> > > Health & Human Services about one of their products:

> > >

> > > *DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH & HUMAN SERVICES*

> > >

> > > *Public Health Service*

> > >

> > > *Food and Drug Administration*

> > >

> > > *St. Louis Branch*

> > >

> > > 12 Sunnen Drive, Suite 122

> > >

> > > St. Louis, MO 63143-3800

> > >

> > > (314) 645-1167

> > >

> > > (314) 645-2969 (FAX)

> > >

> > > December 16, 1998

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > *WARNING LETTER*

> > >

> > >

> > > CERTIFIED MAIL

> > > RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED

> > > Mr. L. Montgomery

> > > President and CEO

> > > Reliv International, Inc.

> > > 136 Chesterfield Industrial Blvd.

> > > Chesterfield, MO 63005

> > >

> > > Dear Sir: This letter is in reference to your firm's marketing and

> > > distribution of the product, " Arthaffect. " Promotional material

> > > (labeling) for this product makes therapeutic claims that causes the

> > > products to be a drug as defined in Section 201(g) of the Federal

> Food,

> > > Drug, and Cosmetic Act (the Act).

> > >

> > > Examples of the claims include the following:

> > >

> > > * " A breakthrough in the fight against degenerative joint

> conditions " ;

> > > * " Published clinical studies [include references to]

> osteoarthritis

> > > . . . osteo- and chondropathies . . . " ;

> > > * " Whether your joints ache from age or an active lifestyle, Reliv

> > > Arthaffect does more than treat the symptoms of degenerative

> joint

> > > conditions - it focuses on the source of the problems " ;

> > > * " Traditional joint products simply treat the symptoms of

> > > degenerative joint conditions. In contrast, Reliv Arthaffect

> > > focuses on the source of these problems . . . " ;

> > > * " H contains patented Arthred, a protein proven to help fight

> > > degenerative joint conditions " ;

> > > * " . . . active people who refuse to slow down because of the pain

> > > of degenerative jointconditions " ; and " Fights degenerative joint

> > > conditions " ; and " Tired of joint pain. "

> > >

> > > The product is a " new drug " because there is no evidence that it is

> > > generally recognized as safe and effective for its intended use

> [section

> > > 201 (p) of the Act]. Therefore, it may not be legally marketed in

> this

> > > country without an approved new Drug Application [section 505(a)

> of the

> > > Act].

> > >

> > > It is also misbranded because its labeling fails to bear adequate

> > > directions for use for the condition for which they offer it [section

> > > 502(f)(l) of the Actl. Its labeling is false and misleading as it

> > > suggests that the product be safe and effective for its intended use

> > > when, in fact, this has not been established [section 502(a) of

> the Act].

> > >

> > > This letter is not intended to be an all-inclusive review of all

> > > labeling and products your firm markets. It is your responsibility to

> > > ensure that all products marketed by your firm are in compliance with

> > > the Act and its implementing regulations.

> > >

> > > We request that you take prompt action to correct these violations.

> > > Failure to promptly correct these violations may result in

> enforcement

> > > action being initiated by the Food and Drug Administration without

> > > further notice. The Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act provides for

> > > the seizure of illegal products and for an injlmction against the

> > > manufacturer and/or distributor of illegal products.

> > >

> > > Please notify this office in writing within fifteen (15) working

> days of

> > > receipt of this letter as to the specific steps you have taken to

> > > correct the stated violations. You should also include an

> explanation of

> > > each step being taken to identify and make corrections to assure that

> > > similar violations will not recur. If corrective action cannot be

> > > completed within 15 working days, state the reason for the delay

> and the

> > > time within which you will carry out the corrections.

> > >

> > > Send your reply to the attention of H. Paeng, Compliance

> Officer,

> > > 12 Sunnen Drive, Suite 122, St. Louis, MO 63143-3800..

> > >

> > > W. Mike

> > > Director, Kansas City District

> > >

> > > End of quote. This isn't the only one...

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I am going to do some searches in google to read more about what you read,

also reliv has patents on 6 of their products. It is patented as a food

supplement. It is my understanding that to get a patent on this type of

product that you need to show that it does some good, like I said I am going

to do some research and also look up some info on patents..

_____

From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ]

On Behalf Of

Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 6:55 AM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re:FAQ

And I am just reporting what I found in a Google search; plus what I

surmise from the way the info was presented... Which caused me to

suspect at once that you are selling the product. That does not mean

that you are a scammer; but it does mean that you are not a

disinterested party. Salespersons almost always recommend the product

they sell; right???

I also meant to say, " I don't really know anything about it, but Reliv

has many of the

typical EARMARKS [NOT attributes] of a multiple level marketing scam

based upon links

like this... "

I know of no controlled studies of the effectiveness of Reliv; but I

rather suspect that a double blind experiment would yield approximately

the same results as a placebo. Maybe up to 20 or 30% positive. In any

event a cursory look does not reveal anything that could possibly treat

hypothyroidism. And the soy is definitely a no-no WRT hypothyroidism

[and, IMHO, for any other human also; but that's just one person's

opinion]. Backed up, incidentally, by a few hundred thousand hits on

" soy toxins " in Google.

If you want to know a bit about soy toxins then just put " soy toxins "

into Google. The number of hits you will get varies from over 600,000

and upwards. Just scan a few to get an idea of what is available...

If you've ever had a friend or relative get into the insurance selling

business you might better understand a lot of people's attitude toward

salespersons of that type.

>

> FAQ

> <http://groups.

<hypothyroidism/message/27809;_ylc=X3oDMTJxdmZ

ybDZwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjc

4MDkEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE3Njk3NjcxOA-->

/group/hypothyroidism/message/27809;_ylc=X3oDMTJxdmZybDZwBF9TAzk3Mz

U5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjc4MDkEc2VjA2Rtc2

cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE3Njk3NjcxOA-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " sheri " 2themommie@sbcgloba <mailto:2themommie%40sbcglobal.net>

l.net

> <mailto:2themommie@sbcgloba <mailto:2themommie%40sbcglobal.net>

l.net?Subject=%20Re%3AFAQ>

> themommie2 <http://profiles. <themommie2>

/themommie2>

>

>

> Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:42 pm (PST)

>

>

> I am sorry.Other people share in this group share what helps them.I

> was simply sharing that I had got amazing results with this

> product.Someone asked me what it was so I answered them.Then someone

> asked if they could have more info so I gave them more info. I was not

> trying to scam anyone anymore then somebody saying they got results

> from vicodin or accupunture

>

>

> > >

> > > I don't really know anything about it, but Reliv has many of the

> typical

> > > attributes of a multiple level marketing scam based upon links

> like this:

> > >

> > > http://knowthefacts

<http://knowthefactsfirst.com/?gclid=CLrHvOSOy4sCFQH2QAodKXXnBQ>

first.com/?gclid=CLrHvOSOy4sCFQH2QAodKXXnBQ

> <http://knowthefacts

<http://knowthefactsfirst.com/?gclid=CLrHvOSOy4sCFQH2QAodKXXnBQ>

first.com/?gclid=CLrHvOSOy4sCFQH2QAodKXXnBQ>

> > >

> > > Here's something else I found:

> > >

> > > " We have been receiving numerous reports of a scam involving Reliv

> > > International known as the Reliv Scam.

> > >

> > > These complaints focus on Reliv International as an MLM marketing

> scheme

> > > so we decided to investigate.

> > >

> > > Reliv International was founded in 1988 by Bob Montgomery and

> > > manufactures natural supplements and products in 8 countries and made

> > > into an independent distribution mlm company.

> > >

> > > Reliv International is structured as a MLM company. There are

> multiple

> > > pyramid levels which ensure sellers on the upper levels are making

> money

> > > off the people at the lower levels. Find out more about Pyrmid Scams

> > > here. <http://www.corporat <http://www.corporatenarc.com/pyramid.php>

enarc.com/pyramid.php

> <http://www.corporat <http://www.corporatenarc.com/pyramid.php>

enarc.com/pyramid.php>>

> > >

> > > Although Reliv International many be an MLM company this does not

> mean

> > > it is illegal. However, like almost all MLM companies there are

> numerous

> > > complaints to be found by searching online Reliv supplements.

> > >

> > > Our research shows that 99.9% of people who participate in the Reliv

> > > international MLM fail. The average failure rate of all MLM members

> > > throughout the US is 90%.

> > >

> > > Although there are various complaints online regarding the mlm Reliv

> > > Scam we were unable to find any significant information regarding

> Reliv

> > > illegal supplement activities regarding the possibility of a Reliv

> scam.

> > > This in no way means we endorse Reliv. "

> > >

> > > End of quote.

> > >

> > > The author goes on to say that as far as he knows Reliv's

> activities are

> > > not illegal. I did note that one of their product lines is base

> on soy;

> > > so that's enough info for me. If MLM is your bag it might be just

> the

> > > thing for you.

> > >

> > > Here's a letter sent to Reliv International, Inc. by the

> Department of

> > > Health & Human Services about one of their products:

> > >

> > > *DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH & HUMAN SERVICES*

> > >

> > > *Public Health Service*

> > >

> > > *Food and Drug Administration*

> > >

> > > *St. Louis Branch*

> > >

> > > 12 Sunnen Drive, Suite 122

> > >

> > > St. Louis, MO 63143-3800

> > >

> > > (314) 645-1167

> > >

> > > (314) 645-2969 (FAX)

> > >

> > > December 16, 1998

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > *WARNING LETTER*

> > >

> > >

> > > CERTIFIED MAIL

> > > RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED

> > > Mr. L. Montgomery

> > > President and CEO

> > > Reliv International, Inc.

> > > 136 Chesterfield Industrial Blvd.

> > > Chesterfield, MO 63005

> > >

> > > Dear Sir: This letter is in reference to your firm's marketing and

> > > distribution of the product, " Arthaffect. " Promotional material

> > > (labeling) for this product makes therapeutic claims that causes the

> > > products to be a drug as defined in Section 201(g) of the Federal

> Food,

> > > Drug, and Cosmetic Act (the Act).

> > >

> > > Examples of the claims include the following:

> > >

> > > * " A breakthrough in the fight against degenerative joint

> conditions " ;

> > > * " Published clinical studies [include references to]

> osteoarthritis

> > > . . . osteo- and chondropathies . . . " ;

> > > * " Whether your joints ache from age or an active lifestyle, Reliv

> > > Arthaffect does more than treat the symptoms of degenerative

> joint

> > > conditions - it focuses on the source of the problems " ;

> > > * " Traditional joint products simply treat the symptoms of

> > > degenerative joint conditions. In contrast, Reliv Arthaffect

> > > focuses on the source of these problems . . . " ;

> > > * " H contains patented Arthred, a protein proven to help fight

> > > degenerative joint conditions " ;

> > > * " . . . active people who refuse to slow down because of the pain

> > > of degenerative jointconditions " ; and " Fights degenerative joint

> > > conditions " ; and " Tired of joint pain. "

> > >

> > > The product is a " new drug " because there is no evidence that it is

> > > generally recognized as safe and effective for its intended use

> [section

> > > 201 (p) of the Act]. Therefore, it may not be legally marketed in

> this

> > > country without an approved new Drug Application [section 505(a)

> of the

> > > Act].

> > >

> > > It is also misbranded because its labeling fails to bear adequate

> > > directions for use for the condition for which they offer it [section

> > > 502(f)(l) of the Actl. Its labeling is false and misleading as it

> > > suggests that the product be safe and effective for its intended use

> > > when, in fact, this has not been established [section 502(a) of

> the Act].

> > >

> > > This letter is not intended to be an all-inclusive review of all

> > > labeling and products your firm markets. It is your responsibility to

> > > ensure that all products marketed by your firm are in compliance with

> > > the Act and its implementing regulations.

> > >

> > > We request that you take prompt action to correct these violations.

> > > Failure to promptly correct these violations may result in

> enforcement

> > > action being initiated by the Food and Drug Administration without

> > > further notice. The Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act provides for

> > > the seizure of illegal products and for an injlmction against the

> > > manufacturer and/or distributor of illegal products.

> > >

> > > Please notify this office in writing within fifteen (15) working

> days of

> > > receipt of this letter as to the specific steps you have taken to

> > > correct the stated violations. You should also include an

> explanation of

> > > each step being taken to identify and make corrections to assure that

> > > similar violations will not recur. If corrective action cannot be

> > > completed within 15 working days, state the reason for the delay

> and the

> > > time within which you will carry out the corrections.

> > >

> > > Send your reply to the attention of H. Paeng, Compliance

> Officer,

> > > 12 Sunnen Drive, Suite 122, St. Louis, MO 63143-3800..

> > >

> > > W. Mike

> > > Director, Kansas City District

> > >

> > > End of quote. This isn't the only one...

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheri,

I did not mean to offend you. I just felt the way you left the response: to

give you my

phone number, put up a red flag for me. We can't be too careful these days. I

do not

question you or your product. I don't know enough about it to question it or

say it is a

bad thing. I do appreciate your wanting to help people especially when you find

something

that works for you. I would do the same thing. I hope you understand where I

am coming

from here. No offense.

Venizia

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi Sheri,

> > > > >

> > > > > Can you tell me what is reliv? I have not heard of it. Thanks.

> > > > >

> > > > > Venizia

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Chuck-

I am so happy to hear that your son is doing so much better!! I will send

some more healing thoughts his way.

nancie

--------------------------------------------------

From: " Chuck B " <gumboyaya@...>

Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 1:47 PM

<hypothyroidism >

Subject: FAQ

> Since it has been over a month and there seem to be lots of new posters,

> allow me to once again contribute the infamous, " Answers to Frequently

> Asked Questions. " Oldtimers please hit delete NOW.

>

> INTRODUCTION

>

> Most of us got here from one of four causes: (1) an autoimmune attack on

> the thyroid gland and its hormones, a condition called Hashimoto's

> thyroiditis; (2) surgical removal or radioactive destruction of the

> thyroid gland for a medical reason such as goiter or cancer; (3) an

> idiopathic (don't know what causes it) familial pattern, in which the

> thyroid simply stops working; or (4) an endocrine or protein binding

> malfunction involving other hormones, that results in some sort of

> imbalance or conversion insufficiency.

>

> You can find the basics in the following links. These sites often have

> an ax to grind and may not agree on the best courses of action. However,

> they tend to have a lot of useful information that is made accessible to

> people new to the subject.

>

> Symptoms:

> http://www.womentowomen.com/hypothyroidism/symptoms.asp .

>

> How the thyroid works and what can go wrong:

> http://www.btf-thyroid.org/index.htm .

>

> Summary of treatments, although with lots of editorial views:

> http://thyroid.about.com/od/thyroiddrugstreatments/ .

>

> Good backgrounds and links, although pushing Armour pretty exclusively:

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/causes-of-hypo/

> http://www.geocities.com/thyroide/

>

> More useful links at Thyroid Foundation of America:

> http://www.allthyroid.org/

>

> Forest Pharmaceuticals web page advertising Armour and their home page.

> http://www.armourthyroid.com/faq.html

> http://www.frx.com/

>

> A useful site for checking for drug interactions:

> http://www.pdrhealth.com/health/health-tools-drug-interactions.aspx

>

> What do my tests mean? What other tests are available?

> http://www.labtestsonline.org/

>

> We share a common medical condition, eventually affecting up to about

> 10% of all women, although a lesser percentage of men. If you are in one

> of the first three categories, clearly indicated as hypothyroid by

> tests, your doctor probably gave you a prescription for a synthetic T4

> replacement and told you to come back in 4-8 weeks for more testing.

> That process is called titration.

>

> If your doctor is conservative (the 8-week variety, which is recommended

> if you are over 50, a child, or have a cardiac problem), he probably

> gave you a low starting dose, in which case you won't notice much relief

> for months, when the dosage finally gets close to optimum. In between,

> you may have temporary improvement after each dosage increase that will

> fade as your system adjusts. Eventually, you are likely to feel normal

> again, that is, if you are one of the lucky majority. Many on the list,

> though, are here because they weren't as lucky.

>

> If your doctor is cautious, allowing your levels to stabilize and

> checking the side effects before increasing the dose, you might want to

> show up a little early. The recommended interval is a minimum of six

> weeks. However, if you are young and otherwise healthy, there is no

> reason not to push that a bit. The sooner you get to full replacement

> and get it stabilized, the sooner you feel normal again. The incremental

> increases only help briefly and then seem to fall off until the next

> increase.

>

> The latest prescribing guidelines for healthy patients under 50 tell

> doctors to go immediately to a " full replacement dose " and titrate from

> there. That gets you feeling better much more quickly than the older

> approach. Gursoy A, et. al. " Which thyroid-stimulating hormone level

> should be sought in hypothyroid patients under L-thyroxine replacement

> therapy? " Int J Clin Pract. 2006 Jun;60(6):655-9

>

> Traditionally, practitioners have, for most patients, had their own

> particular approaches to thyroid hormone replacement that fall into 5

> categories.

>

> 1. Minimum Medication / High-Normal TSH

>

> Some practitioners have preferred to take the most conservative

> approach, providing the lowest possible dose of thyroid medication, and

> targeting the top end of the normal range for a patient's TSH level.

> Their justification has been a concern over the effects of a lower TSH

> on bone density, as well as concerns that medication might have negative

> effects on the heart. This approach itself has been controversial

> however, because there is contradictory evidence as to whether patients

> medicated to the lower normal range face an increased risk of

> osteoporosis. It's also been shown that thyroid medication is safe for

> most patients, and dosage should be increased slowly and monitored

> carefully for cardiac implications in only the elderly and people with a

> history of preexisting heart conditions.

>

> 2. Medication to Mid-Normal Range

>

> Many practitioners have as their objective to provide enough thyroid

> hormone replacement for a patient's TSH level to end up somewhere in the

> middle of the " normal range " -- and again, most often, using the older,

> broader normal range of approximately 0.5 to 5.0 to 6.0. This is

> considered a " safe " strategy for the physician, as conventional medicine

> says that hypothyroidism is fully " treated " when the patient is

> euthyroid (has a normal TSH level).

>

> 3. Medication to the 1.0 to 2.0 Range

>

> Some practitioners -- including more of the integrative and holistic

> practitioners, have focused on a TSH level of between 1.0 and 2.0 as the

> target range. This target has typically been based not on definitive

> research, but more on clinical experience over time noting at which TSH

> level the majority of their patients typically report feeling their best.

>

> 4. Suppression of TSH to 0.0 or Nearly Undetectable Levels

>

> TSH suppression, where higher doses of medication are given to suppress

> the thyroid's ability to produce any, or most, thyroid hormone is a

> strategy used with thyroid cancer survivors. Suppression prevents any

> remnant thyroid tissue from becoming active, and can help prevent cancer

> recurrence in many patients, and is often recommended by practitioners

> managing thyroid cancer patients. This approach is considered an

> important part of the ongoing treatment for thyroid cancer survivors.

>

> 5. Medication to Eliminate Symptoms

>

> Some practitioners -- mainly from the holistic, alternative or

> integrative community -- believe that the TSH levels are irrelevant in

> managing a patient. They may occasionally test the TSH, but their target

> is resolution of thyroid symptoms, and they will change the dosage of

> thyroid hormone medication based on a patient's self-reported symptoms,

> as well as clinical signs including pulse rate, blood pressure, and

> observable thyroid symptoms such as reflexes, goiter size, eye

> irritation, and swelling in the face and extremities. This group also

> tends to include alternative medications and supplements, such as iodine

> or kelp.

>

>

> IMPLICATIONS FOR PATIENTS

>

> With the publication of this new research, there is now scientific

> justification for doctors to avoid undermedicating patients to

> high-normal or mid-range TSH levels, and instead, target a level of 2.0

> or less, in order to ensure that their patients are receiving optimal

> care.

>

> In late 2002, the National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry (NACB)

> issued new guidelines for the diagnosis and monitoring of thyroid

> disease. In the guidelines, the NACB reported that the current TSH

> reference range -- which usually runs from approximately 0.5 to 5.5 --

> may be too wide and actually may include people with thyroid disease.

> When more sensitive screening was done, which excluded people with

> thyroid disease, 95 percent of the population tested actually had a TSH

> level between 0.4 and 2.5.

>

> The NACB guidelines led to a recommendation in January 2003 by the

> American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists (AACE), calling for

> doctors to " consider treatment for patients who test outside the

> boundaries of a narrower margin based on a target TSH level of 0.3 to

> 3.0. "

>

> You will probably be on the medication for the rest of your life. The

> few cases of restored thyroid function I have read about sound like mild

> partial impairment which stops. Hashimoto's can sometimes do that, as

> can endocrine malfunctions. Most of the time, everyone that reaches the

> full replacement dose seems to stay there.

>

> Autoimmune conditions can stop and go into either temporary or longer

> lasting remission. However, the more usual progression is cyclic

> recurrence, once they have been triggered. In the case of the thyroid,

> this usually results in permanent loss of function. Other systems are

> sometimes more resilient. Nobody knows the cause for the immune system

> to attack the body it is supposed to protect, although this is a very

> active field of research today.

>

> The big distinction of Hashimoto's from the other causes is that thyroid

> function can go up and down again, alternating hyperthyroid with

> hypothyroid under the same dosage, until the gland is finally,

> permanently destroyed. This means the gland stops functioning entirely,

> stops collecting iodine and producing the T4 and T3 from it that you

> need. There is also a small reduction in organ size, the only sort of

> weight loss associated with hypoT. To me a goiter

> sounds

> worse, because it results in disfigurement.

>

> Once you get your dosage stabilized, you should feel as well as ever,

> with a couple of caveats. For example, I've noticed an intolerance to

> heavy exercise, which seems to use up the T3 faster than usual. My

> system can't keep up for more than about three hours of work, then I

> become a vegetable for a short period. Several of us on the list call

> this " hitting the wall. " It is much like what a marathoner runs into

> when the liver's supply of glucose runs out. Either that or I've just

> become lazy with age.

>

> Really, you can still exercise, but you have to pace yourself. Where

> before you could " party all night " and pay the piper later, now you tend

> to pay up front.

>

> Body temperature can be a good indicator of metabolism. HypoT folks feel

> cold because they are cold. Other symptoms can be important

> indicators, and you should memorize the list of both hypo-T and hyper-T

> symptoms, just in case. However, if you expect a comment with more

> content than " That's too bad, " we would also like to see your blood test

> results. These should include the reference ranges for each test as

> reported by your lab.

>

> HOW TO USE THIS LIST

>

> Don't be shy about sharing information. Most of us have done these

> tests over and over for years. They don't indicate your IQ or anything

> really personal. They just give clues on what is causing your condition.

> Also, these are YOUR test results. You have a right to ask for a copy

> from your doctor or to ask that the lab send a second copy directly to

> you.

>

> I tend to ask for a test myself at least every six months, but I am

> paranoid about my health. A year would work if you had no symptoms for a

> long time. My mother went several years before checking her dosage. It

> nearly killed her once, when they changed the formulation of Synthroid

> and didn't tell the doctors.

>

> THE TESTS

>

> A summary of the various tests you may be asked to take:

> http://vitamvas.tripod.com/lab.html

>

> For most of us, increasing the available T4 by taking a synthetic

> replacement adequately supports the FT3 level. If it doesn't, you could

> have poor conversion from T4 to T3. Or, you could have excessive binding

> of both T4 and T3, so the free components are too low. Another possible

> problem is that antibodies are making your other tests invalid,

> indicating within the normal range when they are actually outside.

>

> One possible solution for all of these is to drive TSH lower than the

> reference range, or to increase T4 to higher than its reference range.

> You can do that with either more T4 or by adding T3 to the mix. Again,

> the reference ranges are valid for initial screening and perhaps for

> initial titration. After that, interpretations vary, depending on the

> physician, many of whom do not believe the published lab guidelines. Two

> major professional groups have issued recommendations about LOWERING the

> reference ranges for people on the medications.

>

> RECOMMENDATIONS

>

> Here are the recommendations of the American Society of Endocrinologists

> and the National Academy of Clinical Biochemists. You might want to

> share these with your doctor:

>

> http://www.nacb.org/lmpg/thyroid_lmpg_pub.stm

>

http://thyroid.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ & sdn=thyroid & zu=http%3A%2\

F%2Fwww.nacb.org%2Flmpg%2Fthyroid_LMPG_PDF.stm

>

> You might also want the papers here:

>

> http://www.altsupportthyroid.org/tsh/tshmedrefs4.php#supp

> http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/osteoporosis.htm

>

> We seem to agree there is a list of foods to avoid, especially if you

> have at least some thyroid function left. This includes goitrogen foods:

>

> http://www.ithyroid.com/goitrogens.htm .

>

> I personally eat many of the goitrogens, particularly nuts and raw

> broccoli, but I have no thyroid function left, nothing left to lose. I

> still avoid soy, because it apparently goes after thyroxine in serum. I

> have not noticed any effect from the other goitrogens, since I am on a

> full replacement dose of thyroxine.

>

> I also try to minimize consumption of fluoride. This is another bad

> actor that is toxic to both an active thyroid gland and thyroid hormones

> in the blood. Black tea is particularly rich in fluoride, so the only

> tea I have any more is green tea, and that is pretty rare, coffee being

> an essential nutrient, at least to me. Herbal teas are not a problem for

> fluoride. The amount in city water supplies is a concern. Check with

> your public water company.

>

> Although some on the list recommend taking large iodine supplements in

> addition to the replacement medications, iodine can be toxic to some

> people, and it has especially bad effects for those with Hashimoto's. It

> seems to stimulate the antibody attack. Canada's federal health agency

> issued a warning in 2003 to stay away from kelp, because you might get

> as much as 4 mg per day by following the directions. Some on the list

> are taking more than ten times that amount daily.

>

> http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/advisories-avis/2003/2003_27_e.html

>

> Here are some other reports of experimental evidence that iodine

> supplements aggravate Hashimoto's:

>

> Effect of Iodine Restriction on Thyroid Function in Patients With

> Primary Hypothyroidism. Kanji Kasagi, Masahiro Iwata, Takashi Misaki,

> Junji Konishi Thyroid 13(6):561-567, 2003.

>

> Control of efficiency and results, and adverse effects of excess iodine

> administration on thyroid function. Koutras A. , Ann Endocrinol (Paris)

> 57: 463-469, 1996.

>

> Chronic autoimmune thyroiditis. Dayan CM, s GH., N Engl J Med 335:

> 99-107, 1996.

>

> Ironically, levothyroxine (T4) itself is an iodine supplement with four

> iodine atoms in each molecule. I personally would not take iodine (e.g.

> kelp) unless I had clear evidence of a deficiency. That could be the

> case for someone with untreated symptoms, or someone not taking hormone

> replacements, which, in fact, are a concentrated form of iodine.

>

> If you think lack of iodine is your problem or that overdosing with it

> might help, here is the home site of a supplier that some of our listers

> recommend. Again, this approach is controversial.

>

> http://www.optimox.com/

>

> As to what TO eat, most of us are fighting weight problems. HypoT also

> puts us at risk of high-cholesterol induced cardiac and stroke and type

> II diabetes. Diet is probably where the widest range of controversy

> lies. Many of us have tried the extremely low carbohydrate diets and

> lost some weight. However, I found that after about 10 months, even the

> extreme induction form of the diet no longer worked. I think my

> metabolism had simply adapted. It just took longer than it takes to

> adapt to a low fat diet.

>

> OTOH, hypothyroidism seems to make us particularly susceptible to the

> effects of high glycemic index foods. So, I still try to minimize sugars

> and simple or refined starches along with saturated and especially trans

> fats. We have had a couple of testimonials for coconut oil, but it did

> absolutely nothing for me.

>

> Some on the list will give you a long list of supplements they swear by.

> I think some of us could stock a health food store with what is in their

> medicine cabinets. However, some things seem to be on everyone's list.

> The first is selenium, since it helps with T4-T3 conversion. As with

> iodine, though, too much selenium is reputed to be toxic and increases

> your risk of diabetes at about 200 mcg per day. Make sure you

> aren't getting it from multiple sources.

>

> Another supplement that is frequently mentioned is vitamin B-12. For me

> it helps with energy level if taken intermittently. Too often, and I get

> jittery, can't sleep, and feel rather wiped out and uncomfortable.

>

> In summary, diet won't help much with the primary symptoms unless the

> hormone levels are properly balanced. For most of us, that means getting

> the dosage or combination of replacement hormones right. Once that is

> fixed, the main concern is choosing a " healthy diet " that controls the

> weight gain. However, we have lots of conflicting opinions on what that

> means.

>

> Calcium carbonate has been shown in several well reviewed tests to

> interfere with T4 absorption when taken up to three hours after the T4.

> However, the form of calcium in milk should not do this. It is not

> carbonate. Iron is another nutrient with this interference capability.

> Calcium carbonate is in a lot of other medications and supplements as a

> binder. You should not take any food within an hour after or two hours

> before your T4, longer for iron, calcium, or fiber.

>

> Don't take these anywhere near the same time as your T4. Most of us take

> the hormone first thing in the morning and other medications after

> breakfast or in the evening. Fiber is not nearly as bad as calcium

> carbonate or iron. These will affect absorption even after three hours.

>

> I would also suggest waiting for the dosage to settle before starting a

> low carb diet. That shuts down the intestines independent of thyroid

> status. The two together could be a real problem. One final possibility

> is that a lot of the non-dairy creamers have soy in them. Soy will also

> interfere long after you take the Synthroid.

>

> It is also possible that iodide added to salt could aggravate autoimmune

> thyroiditis, actually making your T3 lower. However, this is usually a

> slower, longer term effect. Another caution is that a gross excess of

> iodide can burn the thyroid. Again, this is usually a longer term

> effect, not something that would affect a selected afternoon and then go

> away. It would also take a fairly large slug of iodide, much more than

> is available in table salt.

>

> Some people experience side effects from one medication or another. In

> addition to the following ingredients, Abbott Laboratories is now

> advising list members that the .05 and .075 mg tablets have 2.9 mg. of

> sulfites per pill. This is more than enough to adversely effect people

> sensitive to sulfites. We do not know whether other thyroid medications

> might have sulfites, which are commonly included with colorings to

> stabilize them.

>

> Here are the Synthroid and generic levothyroxine inert ingredients:

>

> Acacia, confectioner's sugar (contains cornstarch), lactose, magnesium

> stearate, povidone, and talc. No sulfites.

>

> The following are the color additives by tablet strength: 25 mcg: FD & C

> yellow No. 6; 50 mcg: None; 75 mcg: FD & C red No. 40, FD & C blue No. 2;

> 88 mcg: FD & C blue No. 1, FD & C yellow No. 6, D & C yellow No. 10; 100 mcg:

> D & C yellow No.10, FD & C yellow No. 6; 112 mcg: D & C red No. 27 & 30; 125

> mcg: FD & C yellow No. 6, FD & C red No. 40, FD & C blue No. 1; 150 mcg:

> FD & C blue No. 2; 175 mcg: FD & C blue No. 1, D & C red No. 27 & 30; 200

> mcg: FD & C red No. 40; 300 mcg: D & C yellow No. 10, FD & C yellow No. 6,

> FD & C blue No. 1.

>

> Levoxyl inert ingredients:

>

> Microcrystalline cellulose, croscarmellose sodium and magnesium stearate.

>

> The following are the coloring additives per tablet strength: (mcg) 25

> FD & C Yellow No. 6 Aluminum Lake; 50 None; 75 FD & C Blue No. 1 Aluminum

> Lake, D & C Red No. 30 Aluminum Lake; 88 FD & C Yellow No. 6 Aluminum Lake,

> FD & C Blue No. 1 Aluminum Lake, D & C Yellow No. 10 Aluminum Lake; 100 FD & C

> Yellow No. 6 Aluminum Lake, D & C Yellow No. 10 Aluminum Lake; 112 FD & C

> Yellow No. 6 Aluminum Lake, FD & C Red No. 40 Aluminum Lake, D & C Red No.

> 30 Aluminum Lake; 125 FD & C Red No. 40 Aluminum Lake, D & C Yellow No. 10

> Aluminum Lake; 137 FD & C Blue No. 1 Aluminum Lake; 150 FD & C Blue No. 1

> Aluminum Lake, D & C Red No. 30 Aluminum Lake; 175 FD & C Blue No. 1

> Aluminum Lake, D & C Yellow No. 10 Aluminum Lake; 200 D & C Red No. 30

> Aluminum Lake, D & C Yellow No. 10 Aluminum Lake; 300 FD & C Yellow No. 6

> Aluminum Lake, FD & C Blue No. 1 Aluminum Lake, D & C Yellow No. 10 Aluminum

> Lake

>

> So what is the difference? The big one is lactose in Synthroid and its

> generics. Some people are intolerable to even a tiny amount of this

> ingredient. The second big difference is that Synthroid uses dyes for

> coloring, while Levoxyl has a combination of dyes and lakes. Some of the

> inert ingredients also contain sulfites. If you are sensitive to sulfur,

> you may need to choose a dosage with a different coloring.

>

> A dye is a distinct chemical material, which exhibits coloring power

> when dissolved. The lakes are insoluble in nearly all solvents, and

> therefore do not require sulfites to stabilize them. The term is

> derived from the early medieval Latin lacca to indicate a combination of

> pigment with products of the lac insect (Kerria lacca). The lac was

> imported into Europe from India, and it yielded both red dyestuff and,

> as a by-product, shellac (shell-lac) and lacquer (lac-quer). Until the

> 18th century, lake indicated red pigments only. Aluminum lakes are

> produced by the absorption of a water soluble dye onto a hydrated

> aluminum substrate. The food product is colored either by dispersion of

> the lake or by coating onto the surface.

>

> " Subclinical " means that a set of indicator symptoms are not confirmed

> by chemical tests. Before T3 and T4 assays became widely available, the

> main or only test used was TSH. Thus, at one time, subclinical meant

> symptoms with a high normal, or slightly above normal, TSH. With other

> tests and other protocols for each test, the accepted definition has

> necessarily changed.

>

> One major issue with a subclinical diagnosis is whether the tests you

> had are reliable or relevant. Free T3 is the one that really controls

> the metabolic symptoms, so a normal Total T4 or Total T3 test may not be

> completely meaningful, particularly if conversion to T3 is messed up or

> if too large a fraction of T3 is bound by albumin and globulin.

>

> Three proteins in the blood chemically attach to thyroxine, rendering it

> unable to convert (T4 to T3) or play its role in maintaining metabolism.

> Fortunately, this binding is temporary, and the thyroxine will

> spontaneously detach in short order. However, at any given time, about

> 99% of the T4 and T3 in the blood is tied up with these proteins. Only

> the tiny fraction left FREE is able to contribute to metabolism and

> health, which is why it is important to measure FT3 (Free

> 3,5,3’-triiodothyronine) when you are medicated but still having

> problems. FT4 can be used to estimate FT3 from total T3, since the

> percentage of binding is very close to the same.

>

> The dominant binding protein is in the globulin family, called thyroxine

> binding globulin. Although it is present in the lowest concentration of

> the three, it has the highest affinity and therefore ties up the most T4

> and T3. The second is a type of albumin, sometimes called pre-albumin.

> It ties up about a third of your hormone. A tiny amount is also caught

> by a third type of protein, transthyretin. Because thyroxine binding

> globulin is dominant, the binding process is often just called globulin

> binding.

>

> Obviously, globulin binding serves as a control valve, a throttle, on

> your medicine. It prevents T4 from easily converting to T3, since both

> need to be in the free form. It creates a reservoir of T4, which is one

> reason why T4 has a biological half life of nearly a week. If the

> throttle is too tightly closed, the excess binding results in too little

> FT3, even though total T4 may be fine. There is too much in the

> reservoir and not enough getting to your cells. One possible indication

> of this situation is when Total T4 is fluctuating, but the free

> fractions only change a little.

>

> Another big issue is the effect of antibodies, which may or may not

> change the other readings. If you had no antibodies detected, this is

> less likely, unless you are in a very early stage of thyroid

> deterioration. If so, a small supplementation in either or both T4 and

> T3 might help with symptoms or their anticipated progression. Just watch

> for hyperT symptoms. That would tell you to back off the dosage.

>

> Again, welcome aboard, and I hope these comments help. If you object to

> any of the " standard model " information I included, please collect

> some rebuttal posts and web pages, and I will revise the FAQ

> message to include both sides for new members.

>

> Chuck

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

nancie barnett wrote:

> Chuck-

> I am so happy to hear that your son is doing so much better!! I will send

> some more healing thoughts his way.

Thanks again. He does have to endure one more hard patch, the heparin

protocol, which requires blood draws at least every six hours. He is a

" hard stick, " and they are running out of veins. We even considered an

arterial (PIC) line, but we're hoping they will get the meds titrated

quickly, so he can go home.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

actually the PIC line goes into a vein. it is not a bad idea for a temporary

problem or a subclavin where they can do a cut down bedside. I have had both

done on me. I also have had central lines multiple times both hickmans and

finally porta-caths.

--------------------------------------------------

From: " Chuck B " <gumboyaya@...>

Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 3:19 AM

<hypothyroidism >

Subject: Re: FAQ

> nancie barnett wrote:

>> Chuck-

>> I am so happy to hear that your son is doing so much better!! I will send

>> some more healing thoughts his way.

>

> Thanks again. He does have to endure one more hard patch, the heparin

> protocol, which requires blood draws at least every six hours. He is a

> " hard stick, " and they are running out of veins. We even considered an

> arterial (PIC) line, but we're hoping they will get the meds titrated

> quickly, so he can go home.

>

> Chuck

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nancie,

You wrote:

> actually the PIC line goes into a vein. it is not a bad idea for a temporary

> problem or a subclavin where they can do a cut down bedside. I have had both

> done on me. I also have had central lines multiple times both hickmans and

> finally porta-caths.

Sorry, you are right. The last one used his brachial vein. However, they

run the catheter so far up that vein, that it terminates very near the

heart. It is much deeper than a surface vein, which makes me visualize

an artery, even though that is not correct.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

I have had thryoid uptake scans, ultrasounds and bloodwork since 2002

showing hypoT, Hashis and goiter... Is that what you mean by clinical

testing?

I am new to this board but not to taking care of my health nor being

diagnosed.

I had high TSH, low Free T3 and mid-range Free T3 with antibodies >1000.

I was started on levoxyl .88 upped .100 then to .112.

Gained weight that first year.

Asked for and added in 5 mcg Cytomel. Upped to 10 mcg cytomel. Then 15 mcg

cytomel.

Gained weight 2nd year.

Switched to armour equivalent dose.

Felt bloated, achy, tired, gained more weight.

Went back to Levo/Ctyo combination. Tried levo/armour combination.

Gained more weight.

Started Schwarzbein Program for " real " 2 months ago.

Stopped gaining weight.

Adrenals went from <0 4x daily test to 9 3 2 1 4x testing in one month.

I have a long road ahead but I think if I take care of the adrenals the

thyroid meds with my doctor for 4 years. We are done with that for now and I

am working on adrenal healing.

You've given me a lot to read... It may take awhile but I will get thru it,

thanks!

Sue

On 8/8/08 6:29 PM, " Chuck B " <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

> Sue,

>

> Do you have any clinical testing evidence of hypoT?

>

> You wrote:

>>

>> Which infamous FAQ?

>

> You dared to ask?

>

> Old timers hit delete NOW.

>

>

> Answers to Frequently Asked Questions

>

> INTRODUCTION

>

> Most of us got here from one of four causes: (1) an autoimmune attack on

> the thyroid gland and its hormones, a condition called Hashimoto's

> thyroiditis; (2) surgical removal or radioactive destruction of the

> thyroid gland for a medical reason such as goiter or cancer; (3) an

> idiopathic (don't know what causes it) familial pattern, in which the

> thyroid simply stops working; or (4) an endocrine or protein binding

> malfunction involving other hormones, that results in some sort of

> imbalance or conversion insufficiency.

>

> You can find the basics in the following links. These sites often have

> an ax to grind and may not agree on the best courses of action. However,

> they tend to have a lot of useful information that is made accessible to

> people new to the subject.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sue,

You wrote:

>

> I have had thryoid uptake scans, ultrasounds and bloodwork since 2002

> showing hypoT, Hashis and goiter... Is that what you mean by clinical

> testing?

Yes, just checking before we got carried away discussing details. You

have obviously been through the mill and know the language.

Weight gain seems to be a common experience, even when we are medicated

to a euthyroid condition. Even going slightly hyperT does not seem to

make much difference on weight, and it carries cardiac and bone risks.

A lot of people on the list have reported some success with low carb

approaches, but I found for me that only helped long term, if I could

get total daily calories way down.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Hi

here is a list of all of the groups and forums for low dose Naltrexone that I know of.

Hope this helps

mjh14 low dose Naltrexone (LDN) groups:low dose naltrexone, ldnsupport, LDN_Users, Spotlight_LDN, Autism_LDN, LDN_4_cancer, LDN_HIVAIDS, LDN-for-PLS-HSP, ldn_pandilla, pandilla_ldn, Ldnbrasil, LDNForCFS, ldnmidwest, Naltrexonabajadosisldn

mjhSix LDN forums and blogs: http://www.ldnresearchtrust.org/forums/index.php?act=idxhttp://disc.server.com/Indices/148285.htmlhttp://ldn.proboards3.com/index.cgihttp://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=17 & m=702259 & p=3http://rxcommunications.info/index.php?name=PNphpBB2 & file=viewforum & f=4http://forum.lef.org/default.aspx?f=37 & m=16685http://www.revolutionhealth.com/blogs/earthling/low-dose-naltrexone--3335http://www.ldn4ms.de/forum/forum.phphttp://crystalangel6267.webs.com/ldnmore.htm A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

[Guest guest]

Hi and All,

Thanks for your response.

I agree with you that Nighttime dosing using the Bihari Protocol works for

people with MS.

It sounds from your post as if *this* group is only for those with MS and that

the *other* groups are for other illnesses.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the purpose of this group is to

discuss LDN. If that is so, I believe it is important to be able to accurately

discuss it in the context of various diseases in a way that allows the most

people to benefit.

I came to this group because I have Hepatitis C and I wanted to learn as much as

possible about LDN so that I could discern if it would be of benefit to me.

I do not think Dr. Zagon has created a group.

Cheers,

McGovern

>

> -,

> That is why these other LDN groups exist. To discuss all of these other

ideas you may have, so as not to confuse newcomers.

[Guest guest]

I've went to the website but cannot locate the link for FAQ, nor the one for the

presentation on treating autoimmune disese! What am I missing? It is

roadback.org, right? Can someone please point me to the correct links?

Thanks.

M.