Guest guest Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 From the FAQ on www.rheumatic.org 6. EXPLAIN THE JARISCH HERXHEIMER REACTION. This drug-induced flare reaction may occur within hours, the next day or within the first weeks after the patient starts the antibiotics - or any time there is a change in antibiotic or dosage. It is caused by a die-off of organisms, which in turn create toxins that circulate in the body. This will often cause a temporary worsening of symptoms. Patients may experience a range of symptoms from mild fatigue and sleepiness to flu-like symptoms - chills, low grade fever, night sweats, muscle aches, aching and swollen joints, nausea, hives, skin rashes, depression and short term memory loss. Hives and rash are sometimes mistaken for an allergic reaction. If the Herxheimer reaction is severe, the medication may be stopped and a small dose of prednisone (no more than 10 mg.) may be prescribed. When the flare subsides, the medication is re-introduced at a slow rate. When this Herxheimer reaction occurs, it is a good indicator that the antibiotic is reaching its target - a very positive sign. The length of time for this reaction varies from patient to patient. About twenty percent of patients do not experience the Herxheimer reaction. Scleroderma patients seem to experience the Herxheimer reaction less often than RA patients. Oxidative therapy may be useful in reducing these symptoms. Garth Nicholson, M.D., director of The Institute for Molecular Medicine in Huntington Beach, California recommends peroxide baths (four 16 oz. bottles of 3% hydrogen peroxide in 20 inch bath or Jacuzzi, with 2 cups of Epsom salt. Patients soak in hot water plus the Epsom salt for five minutes until pores are open, then add the peroxide solution. This should be repeated three times a week at bedtime. No vitamins should be taken 8 hours before bath. The peroxide can also be directly applied to the skin after a hot shower/tub. The peroxide should be left on for 5 minutes and then washed off. Another useful suggestion from Dr. Nicholson - blend one whole lemon, then add 1 cup fruit juice or water and 1 tablespoon of olive oil. Strain and drink liquid. Far-infrared saunas have also been found helpful in removing toxins from the body. Instructions for building an inexpensive far-infrared sauna can be found at www.mercola.com or www.drlwilson.com. It is very important to drink adequate amounts of water to flush the toxins from the body - no less than two quarts a day. Water not only flushes the toxins out of the system, but lubricates the joints and carries nutrients to the cells. You also need to make sure you have two to three good size bowel movements daily. Should constipation be a problem, try taking a rounded teaspoon of pysillium (Metamucil or a generic) in 8 ounces of water, one to three times daily. Drinking warm prune juice on first arising in the morning is also helpful. If necessary, you may also add powdered vitamin C (to tolerance) to the prune juice. Note: Scleroderma patients may have intestinal problems that involve lack of motility in the colon. If they need a fiber supplement for stool irregularities, they might do better with a product like Citrucel (methylcellulose). They should avoid products with the active ingredient pysillium. rheumatic my sister needs help > Hello, my name is . My sister is a new member of the group. Her > name is Leah Royer. Home Health has started her on antibiotics- > Clindimycin. This is her 2nd day of treatment. She's sick and can't > get to the computer herself & wants me to ask the question---Is it too > soon to be having a HERX? Do chills accompany a HERX reaction? We > ( or Mitch--Leah's son)will be at the computer waiting for a > response. > Thank you in advance for helping us figure out what is going on. > We have an appt Tuesday with a dr. who is knowledgable about treating > R.A with antibiotics (in Lufkin, Tx). Right now, she is being seen by > a dr. who is going on a few protocols that Leah researced/found & > presented to her. This dr. is not familiar with typical > reactions/responses to this treatment...... > Again, thanks for any help you can offer.... > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribe@...! Groups > Links > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Hi, : Thank You, on your sister's behalf, for helping out--it is this kind of loving support that has kept many of us going through the years of suffering. There is not enough information in your email, but I will make some statements that may or may not apply: A " Herx " reaction can happen rapidly, but it is usually limited to symptoms related to the condition being treated--in other words, these should be familiar pains and not very much new. If there is something else going on it could be a sign of severe reaction and anaphylaxis is another immediate potential reaction that should be of some concern. It is a matter of whether yesterday your sister was nearly bedridden and this just pushed her over the edge or you sister was far from her present state and this reaction was considerable and unexpected out-of-nowhere-except the drug variable. In the latter case I would get her to ER, especially if there is any sign of breathing difficulties or skin rash. And I would not repeat the 'experiment' for now, until she has had some recovery enough to get back to her 'normal.' then maybe begin again at lower dosages. Antibiotics do much more than act against the desired target bacterium, and some people have had near fatal reactions from something as seemingly innocent as tetracycline, albeit this is very rare and as a rule these drugs are much safer than other drugs against arthritis. Please provide symptoms and your sister's age and pertinent other information; perhaps there is someone here with clindamycin experience. Good luck, From: dixieglitzie <dixieglitzie@...> Subject: rheumatic my sister needs help rheumatic Date: Thursday, July 10, 2008, 8:36 AM Hello, my name is . My sister is a new member of the group. Her name is Leah Royer. Home Health has started her on antibiotics- Clindimycin. This is her 2nd day of treatment. She's sick and can't get to the computer herself & wants me to ask the question---Is it too soon to be having a HERX? Do chills accompany a HERX reaction? We ( or Mitch--Leah' s son)will be at the computer waiting for a response. Thank you in advance for helping us figure out what is going on. We have an appt Tuesday with a dr. who is knowledgable about treating R.A with antibiotics (in Lufkin, Tx). Right now, she is being seen by a dr. who is going on a few protocols that Leah researced/found & presented to her. This dr. is not familiar with typical reactions/responses to this treatment... ... Again, thanks for any help you can offer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 , I am on oral Clindamycin too, but only twice a week. Is your sister taking only Clindamycin, and how much? One thing to look out for is persistent diahrrhea and abdominal or stomach pain/cramping or blood/ mucus in her stool. That might be a sign of a serious intestinal condition that is a rare side effect of Clindamycin, called pseudomembraneous colitis. If she had those symptoms, she must see a gastrenterologist or go to the ER immediately. She shouldn't use anti- diahrrhea products or narcotic pain medication for these symptoms. But perhaps she is having a herx . . . . Keep in touch. On Jul 10, 2008, at 11:36 AM, dixieglitzie wrote: > Hello, my name is . My sister is a new member of the group. Her > name is Leah Royer. Home Health has started her on antibiotics- > Clindimycin. This is her 2nd day of treatment. She's sick and can't > get to the computer herself & wants me to ask the question---Is it too > soon to be having a HERX? Do chills accompany a HERX reaction? We > ( or Mitch--Leah's son)will be at the computer waiting for a > response. > Thank you in advance for helping us figure out what is going on. > We have an appt Tuesday with a dr. who is knowledgable about treating > R.A with antibiotics (in Lufkin, Tx). Right now, she is being seen by > a dr. who is going on a few protocols that Leah researced/found & > presented to her. This dr. is not familiar with typical > reactions/responses to this treatment...... > Again, thanks for any help you can offer.... > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Ethel, I talked to Leah on the phone earlier and she really appreciated the info you send her, she will be back on line as soon as she feels better. The Phys. Therapist evaluated her today, but since she has an appointment on Tuesday with Dr. K. in Lufkin, TX she wants to wait and see what she wants done. Since I am only a go-between I know she will write you later, but she felt it imperative to let you know she got the msg. Eva Holloway Ethel Snooks <emsnooks@...> wrote: From the FAQ on www.rheumatic.org 6. EXPLAIN THE JARISCH HERXHEIMER REACTION. This drug-induced flare reaction may occur within hours, the next day or within the first weeks after the patient starts the antibiotics - or any time there is a change in antibiotic or dosage. It is caused by a die-off of organisms, which in turn create toxins that circulate in the body. This will often cause a temporary worsening of symptoms. Patients may experience a range of symptoms from mild fatigue and sleepiness to flu-like symptoms - chills, low grade fever, night sweats, muscle aches, aching and swollen joints, nausea, hives, skin rashes, depression and short term memory loss. Hives and rash are sometimes mistaken for an allergic reaction. If the Herxheimer reaction is severe, the medication may be stopped and a small dose of prednisone (no more than 10 mg.) may be prescribed. When the flare subsides, the medication is re-introduced at a slow rate. When this Herxheimer reaction occurs, it is a good indicator that the antibiotic is reaching its target - a very positive sign. The length of time for this reaction varies from patient to patient. About twenty percent of patients do not experience the Herxheimer reaction. Scleroderma patients seem to experience the Herxheimer reaction less often than RA patients. Oxidative therapy may be useful in reducing these symptoms. Garth Nicholson, M.D., director of The Institute for Molecular Medicine in Huntington Beach, California recommends peroxide baths (four 16 oz. bottles of 3% hydrogen peroxide in 20 inch bath or Jacuzzi, with 2 cups of Epsom salt. Patients soak in hot water plus the Epsom salt for five minutes until pores are open, then add the peroxide solution. This should be repeated three times a week at bedtime. No vitamins should be taken 8 hours before bath. The peroxide can also be directly applied to the skin after a hot shower/tub. The peroxide should be left on for 5 minutes and then washed off. Another useful suggestion from Dr. Nicholson - blend one whole lemon, then add 1 cup fruit juice or water and 1 tablespoon of olive oil. Strain and drink liquid. Far-infrared saunas have also been found helpful in removing toxins from the body. Instructions for building an inexpensive far-infrared sauna can be found at www.mercola.com or www.drlwilson.com. It is very important to drink adequate amounts of water to flush the toxins from the body - no less than two quarts a day. Water not only flushes the toxins out of the system, but lubricates the joints and carries nutrients to the cells. You also need to make sure you have two to three good size bowel movements daily. Should constipation be a problem, try taking a rounded teaspoon of pysillium (Metamucil or a generic) in 8 ounces of water, one to three times daily. Drinking warm prune juice on first arising in the morning is also helpful. If necessary, you may also add powdered vitamin C (to tolerance) to the prune juice. Note: Scleroderma patients may have intestinal problems that involve lack of motility in the colon. If they need a fiber supplement for stool irregularities, they might do better with a product like Citrucel (methylcellulose). They should avoid products with the active ingredient pysillium. rheumatic my sister needs help > Hello, my name is . My sister is a new member of the group. Her > name is Leah Royer. Home Health has started her on antibiotics- > Clindimycin. This is her 2nd day of treatment. She's sick and can't > get to the computer herself & wants me to ask the question---Is it too > soon to be having a HERX? Do chills accompany a HERX reaction? We > ( or Mitch--Leah's son)will be at the computer waiting for a > response. > Thank you in advance for helping us figure out what is going on. > We have an appt Tuesday with a dr. who is knowledgable about treating > R.A with antibiotics (in Lufkin, Tx). Right now, she is being seen by > a dr. who is going on a few protocols that Leah researced/found & > presented to her. This dr. is not familiar with typical > reactions/responses to this treatment...... > Again, thanks for any help you can offer.... > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribe@...! Groups > Links > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Hi , Keep up the good work. I printed the material you sent to and am using it to educate my new doctor. Rather than go traveling all over the state of Texas, I found a clinic right up the street from me. This doc is a family practise doc and has a few scleroderma patients along with lots of R/A patients, and since I am on the Marshall Prototcol, which involves taking the clindamycin, I thought this information in print would be helpful in him treating me as well as other patients. The neat part is that his clinic serves as a teaching ground for new residents, so they are all being exposed to the antibiotic protocol in treating immune diseases with antibiotic. The more docs we teach, the better. Maybe some will go on to become informed rheumatologists. How great that would be. The majority of Rheumy's we encounter now were schooled in the old way of suppressing the immune system and they closed minded and hopeless. We need the new breed to learn from us. Thanks a million for every bit of information. Every tidbit hopefully helps new docs to see the light. The best to you, Dolores > Hello, my name is . My sister is a new member of the group. Her > name is Leah Royer. Home Health has started her on antibiotics- > Clindimycin. This is her 2nd day of treatment. She's sick and can't > get to the computer herself & wants me to ask the question---Is it too > soon to be having a HERX? Do chills accompany a HERX reaction? We > ( or Mitch--Leah' s son)will be at the computer waiting for a > response. > Thank you in advance for helping us figure out what is going on. > We have an appt Tuesday with a dr. who is knowledgable about treating > R.A with antibiotics (in Lufkin, Tx). Right now, she is being seen by > a dr. who is going on a few protocols that Leah researced/found & > presented to her. This dr. is not familiar with typical > reactions/responses to this treatment... ... > Again, thanks for any help you can offer.... > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Hi Ethel, So glad you wrote on this subject. I printed it so I could give it to my doc when I see him again on Monday. I also wrote to thanking her for her contribution. I found a clinic right down the street where residents spend one year with patients, learning. I think it is a great opportunity that fell into my lap. With each visit, I bring in more information. I figured rather than waste my time searching all over Texas for a rheumy who will treat with antibiotics, I would better off to spend my time giving info to up and coming new docs. In charge is one doc (the family practise doc) who has a few patients with scleroderma and lots of R/A patients. He happened to wander into my office one day and we got to talking. I told him I had scleroderma and he said, I looked so good he never would have guessed that. He said his patients weren't doing as well. That was my opportunity to introduce him to the " Infectious Theory " and the " Antibiotic Protocol " . I told him I had been on Minocin for three years and am presently on something called " The Marshall Protocol " , which introduces clindamycin and azithromycin to the Minocin and adds Benicar. It is a long protocol and may take as long as four years to finish or even longer depending on the person and the disease. I know there are more antibiotic protocols out there and each one has its' merits and pitfalls. But on the overall, antibiotics is the way to go. I am living proof. Was expected to die shortly back in 2005, but live a full life now, work and teach. I light up when someone asks me, " What is Scleroderma? " Anyway, thank you and keep up the good work. Your words do get out there. Not only to the patients, but to the doctors as well. They need it most! I am writing a book aimed at teaching docs how to best treat us patients who want to be treated with antibiotics. And also with dignity and validation re: our various complaints. The worst insult is to refer us to mental health because they think we are hypochondriacs. Even worse, when my liver became enlarged, I was told to stop drinking. I never drank in my life. What an idiot! I would like to add some of these bits of information to my book. When you write them, could you please give the sources so I can give them the credit. I don't want to be accused of plagarism, but think it important that these docs and patients get this information. Keep up the good work and thank you. Dolores From: Ethel Snooks <emsnooks@...> Subject: Re: rheumatic my sister needs help rheumatic Date: Thursday, July 10, 2008, 11:46 AM From the FAQ on www.rheumatic. org 6. EXPLAIN THE JARISCH HERXHEIMER REACTION. This drug-induced flare reaction may occur within hours, the next day or within the first weeks after the patient starts the antibiotics - or any time there is a change in antibiotic or dosage. It is caused by a die-off of organisms, which in turn create toxins that circulate in the body. This will often cause a temporary worsening of symptoms. Patients may experience a range of symptoms from mild fatigue and sleepiness to flu-like symptoms - chills, low grade fever, night sweats, muscle aches, aching and swollen joints, nausea, hives, skin rashes, depression and short term memory loss. Hives and rash are sometimes mistaken for an allergic reaction. If the Herxheimer reaction is severe, the medication may be stopped and a small dose of prednisone (no more than 10 mg.) may be prescribed. When the flare subsides, the medication is re-introduced at a slow rate. When this Herxheimer reaction occurs, it is a good indicator that the antibiotic is reaching its target - a very positive sign. The length of time for this reaction varies from patient to patient. About twenty percent of patients do not experience the Herxheimer reaction. Scleroderma patients seem to experience the Herxheimer reaction less often than RA patients. Oxidative therapy may be useful in reducing these symptoms. Garth Nicholson, M.D., director of The Institute for Molecular Medicine in Huntington Beach, California recommends peroxide baths (four 16 oz. bottles of 3% hydrogen peroxide in 20 inch bath or Jacuzzi, with 2 cups of Epsom salt. Patients soak in hot water plus the Epsom salt for five minutes until pores are open, then add the peroxide solution. This should be repeated three times a week at bedtime. No vitamins should be taken 8 hours before bath. The peroxide can also be directly applied to the skin after a hot shower/tub. The peroxide should be left on for 5 minutes and then washed off. Another useful suggestion from Dr. Nicholson - blend one whole lemon, then add 1 cup fruit juice or water and 1 tablespoon of olive oil. Strain and drink liquid. Far-infrared saunas have also been found helpful in removing toxins from the body. Instructions for building an inexpensive far-infrared sauna can be found at www.mercola. com or www.drlwilson. com. It is very important to drink adequate amounts of water to flush the toxins from the body - no less than two quarts a day. Water not only flushes the toxins out of the system, but lubricates the joints and carries nutrients to the cells. You also need to make sure you have two to three good size bowel movements daily. Should constipation be a problem, try taking a rounded teaspoon of pysillium (Metamucil or a generic) in 8 ounces of water, one to three times daily. Drinking warm prune juice on first arising in the morning is also helpful. If necessary, you may also add powdered vitamin C (to tolerance) to the prune juice. Note: Scleroderma patients may have intestinal problems that involve lack of motility in the colon. If they need a fiber supplement for stool irregularities, they might do better with a product like Citrucel (methylcellulose) . They should avoid products with the active ingredient pysillium. rheumatic my sister needs help > Hello, my name is . My sister is a new member of the group. Her > name is Leah Royer. Home Health has started her on antibiotics- > Clindimycin. This is her 2nd day of treatment. She's sick and can't > get to the computer herself & wants me to ask the question---Is it too > soon to be having a HERX? Do chills accompany a HERX reaction? We > ( or Mitch--Leah' s son)will be at the computer waiting for a > response. > Thank you in advance for helping us figure out what is going on. > We have an appt Tuesday with a dr. who is knowledgable about treating > R.A with antibiotics (in Lufkin, Tx). Right now, she is being seen by > a dr. who is going on a few protocols that Leah researced/found & > presented to her. This dr. is not familiar with typical > reactions/responses to this treatment... ... > Again, thanks for any help you can offer.... > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscri begroups (DOT) com > Links > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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