RE: Re: Fwd: New Haven's Chicken Conference

[Guest guest]

Hahahahahaha, this is *hysterical*!!! A chicken conference!!!

What interesting kooky people do you think will go? Any takers here?

It's the day after my last exam, I'm looking forward to it.

WAIT A MINUTE: " Cooks who love chickens and the many alternatives to eating

them " ?!?!?!

How about cooks who love chickens and the many alternative WAYS OF eating

them!!!

Ramit

> In honor of the fowl whose history we are considering, we are also

> planning a small film festival, literary events, poetry readings, an

> exhibition of

>breeds, and, of course, cuisine prepared by cooks who love chickens and

>the many alternatives to eating them.

_________________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hey there!

I use kooky most affectionately (just as " computer nerd " is a term of

endearment in my vocabulary)! When you're surrounded by (gasp!) a bunch of

future lawyers, interesting and kooky people are a cause for celebration!

Ramit

> Ramit,

> Be careful at the conference. You just may become one of us kooky chicken

>lovers yourself!! You will be absolutely amazed at how serious people are

>about their chickens.

>

> Carmen

>

> <<<< Hahahahahaha, this is *hysterical*!!! A chicken conference!!!

>

> What interesting kooky people do you think will go? Any takers here?

> It's the day after my last exam, I'm looking forward to it.

>

> Ramit >>>>>

_________________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

At 10:25 AM 4/4/2002 -0800, you wrote:

>You will be absolutely amazed at how serious people are

>about their chickens.

I have a friend who was brought up on a farm and he says that chickens are

nearly as smart as dogs and also faithful to their owners; come when they

are called, etc. And, you don't have to take them out for walks ;-) I can

see why one would start to enjoy owning one or more.

-=mark=-

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " lierrekeith " <lierrekeith@...>

> Now you're hurting my feelings. I love my chickens. And I'm not the

> only one on this list who feels that way about their food-producing

> animals. I thought this conference sounded really interesting. The

> exhibition alone is probably worth the price of admission, if you've

> never seen the variety of chickens that are out there. Though I'd

> skip the (probably soy-based) meal...

What? They're having a chicken convention and not serving chicken?

[Guest guest]

Ramit,

Be careful at the conference. You just may become one of us kooky chicken

lovers yourself!! You will be absolutely amazed at how serious people are

about their chickens.

Carmen

<<<< Hahahahahaha, this is *hysterical*!!! A chicken conference!!!

What interesting kooky people do you think will go? Any takers here?

It's the day after my last exam, I'm looking forward to it.

Ramit >>>>>

[Guest guest]

> I have a friend who was brought up on a farm and he says that chickens are

> nearly as smart as dogs and also faithful to their owners; come when they

> are called, etc. And, you don't have to take them out for walks ;-) I can

> see why one would start to enjoy owning one or more.

I don't doubt some chickens can be relatively smart, but I'm pretty

confident that the standard overbred hybrid freaks that we used to raise are

dumb as a post...and since I own a dog that I believe would make a worthy

philosophy/politics debater if I could give her the vocal apparatus to

speak...I'm inclined to doubt your friend's statement. ...and of course I'm

not at all biased! ;-)

[Guest guest]

>>> Hahahahahaha, this is *hysterical*!!! A chicken conference!!!

>

> What interesting kooky people do you think will go?

Hi Ramit,

I know you didn't mean to disrespect anyone with your comments But it led

me to think about the general attitude that Americans have about the food

they eat. Let me emphasize I'm not referring to *you* but of something I see

all the time, including on my pet health lists where some people joke about

using chicken heads as finger puppets, for example.

It made me think that there is probably a lot more to learn from

" primitives " than just *what* they ate. I think their relationship to the

animals and plants that sustained them was *VERY different* than what we are

accustomed to in America today. And that *relationship* is AS important to

understand as is the *contents* of their diets. In America most folks' only

contact with the animals they eat is by opening up the cellophane packages

they buy at the supermarket. I used to be a teacher (briefly) and I learned

that there are kids who really have no concept of where the meat in the

cellophane package comes from. They see no connection between the food in

the supermarket and the world around them.

We_are_so_far_removed_from_all_that_gives_us_life. In stark contrast,

AFAIK, primitive/traditional cultures (at least some) had a deeply connected

relationship to their food - not just physical, but spiritual. I don't claim

to know a lot about primitives' connection to their food, but from personal

experience and my readings thus far, I take it that it was quite different

than the way we americans relate to ours.

One of my teachers is my brother, Dan. I took a basic wilderness living

class a few years ago, that he teaches. He runs a school (beartraks school

of wilderness living - www.beartraks.com), where he teaches people primitive

living skills, much the way many native americans traditionally lived in the

wilderness, including a close connection to all that is consumed. I'm not

saying that what he teaches is *exactly* as it was done by native americans

prior to modern times, but the traditions he teaches were passed down to him

from those who wish to keep these traditions alive, since so few people know

and live by them anymore. Years ago he studied under Tom Brown (author of

numerous books on wilderness survival

[http://www.trackerschool.com/books.php3], and 'student' of Stalking Wolf,

an Apache elder). But I think his most influential teacher has been Waynonah

Two Worlds, an elder of the Lakota Nation

(http://www.susunweed.com/Teacher-Waynonaha-BIO.htm).

In the wilderness skills class, Dan taught us how to select wild edibles.

Part of selecting a particular plant was to 'ask it' if you could harvest

it. I don't mean you ask it out loud " hey, can I harvest and eat you? " It's

more of a silent/spiritual question. It's really hard to describe this

without it sounding mystical, or perhaps just silly, but when you see

someone who is so deeply connected to everything around him, and relates to

the land, plants and animals the way Dan does, it just seems " right. "

Watching him, made me realize how *disconnected* I am to much of my world.

How little I think about the plants and animals that every cell in my body

depends on for life. And how ungrateful I am to them as I rarely think of

them, or thank them.

Before he eats a meal, Dan raises his plate and silently thanks the plants

and animals on the plate that gave their life so he could eat this meal and

sustain his. Every skill he teaches in his primitive living classes is not

just done on a physical level. It's not about making baskets or pottery, but

more about relating to the world, particularly the natural world in a

combined physical/spiritual manner. It's actually hard to describe this as

we are so used to compartmentalizing aspects of our life here in this

country. We " go to " a church, synagogue, mosque, etc to express our

spiritual side. We go to work and do our tasks which have nothing to do with

our spirituality. We go to the grocery store and buy our food all wrapped up

in cellophane, cardboard, plastic, etc. Each aspect is a separate and

distinct part of our lives. But, my understanding of how some native

americans have historically related to the world, is that everything you do

is integrated, in that all tasks have a spiritual component and there is no

compartmentalizing the aspects of one's existence. So eating, hunting,

tracking, fire making, etc are not simply *physical* tasks as they are to

many of us.

I don't want to get too far off track here, as I really just wanted to point

out that we are all interested in becoming healthier by modeling our diet on

some of those (or a combination of those) we've learned about in NAPD and

NT. But I think that there probably was a lot more to the robust health of

the peoples/tribes whom WAP studied than the mere physical contents of their

various diets. I think that their vibrant physical health may also have had

much to do with their *connectedness* - spiritual as well as physical to the

world around them, to their creator, to each other, and to the living

organisms they consumed.

I'm sure the relationship to the land and the animals/plants they consumed,

varied from group to group. And again, I'm conjecturing to a point, because

I honestly don't know much about the worldview of the various tribes WAP

studied. I really am just suggesting that there may be more to the robust

health of the groups he studied than just the physical components of their

diets.

But one thing they probably all had in common was that none were so deeply

*disconnected* from the animals and plants that sustained them, as we are in

21st Century America.

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

At 08:44 AM 4/5/2002 -0500, you wrote:

>Before he eats a meal, Dan raises his plate and silently thanks the plants

>and animals on the plate that gave their life so he could eat this meal and

>sustain his.

I often think that anyone who EATS should have the experience of harvesting

plants (or butchering animals) in some kind of respectful manner. Not that

I am an expert in it. But the point was brought home when, in LA, some

people called the SPCA on a Mexican family that had killed a goat and had

it hanging. None of the families that complained were vegetarian, or not

that was noted, but the concept that an animal had been killed *in their

sight* was just not acceptable. Knowing where you are in " the circle of

life " or whatever you want to call it, that *you* are destined to become

" food " for the earth (or, more so in the past, some other predator), gives

one a sense of reality and one's place in the universe.

I truly appreciate the " humanity " of my chickens (they are just as

intelligent and wonderful as everyone says), but the reality of the

aggressiveness of roosters is such that I'm going to have to face the fact

that they are also meat animals. Which certainly gets me philosophizing!

Heidi Schuppenhauer

Trillium Custom Software Inc.

heidis@...