RE: Calves fed pasteurized milk... (was: Re: New poll for )

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You make a valid point. Even if left to nurse from their mother and freely

given the option to begin grazing/browsing, baby goats and calves will begin

to nibble at solid foods at 7-10 days old. Not even as long as the " first

few months " as your post asks. So nature doesn't even expect a baby ruminant

to survive for any length of time even on raw milk straight from the udder.

We certainly wouldn't expect to raise our own offspring to maturity on

breast milk.

So you are right that a calf fed exclusively milk of any kind during the

first six months isn't entirely meaningful, but the Real Milk website

doesn't even qualify the statement to that extent. It simply says that

calves fed pasteurized milk die before reaching maturity. I think some of us

are wondering if that's the way the study in Australia was done (pasteurized

milk ONLY with no other foods) it might shed some light as to why the calves

died. Not knowing the details of the study, I think some of us (myself

included) are trying to come up with some logical reason as to why the the

calves died, especially while knowing that probably millions of calves and

goats have been raised to maturity on pasteurized milk.

Carmen

<<<< The other question I have, though, is whether calves in the wild go

their

first six months consuming only milk. I've read (and I think it's been

posted here) that calves fed pasteurized milk and supplemented with grain,

grass, hay, etc., survive. If calves in the wild are eating solid food

during their first few months, then a calf fed exclusively milk of any

kind

during the first six months isn't entirely meaningful.

- >>>

[Guest guest]

Carmen-

>We certainly wouldn't expect to raise our own offspring to maturity on

>breast milk.

No, but how long did societies which traditionally nursed for a very long

time (years) wait before starting their kids on some solid foods?

>Even if left to nurse from their mother and freely

>given the option to begin grazing/browsing, baby goats and calves will begin

>to nibble at solid foods at 7-10 days old. Not even as long as the " first

>few months " as your post asks.

In that case, I guess I'm going to change my vote in the poll. It doesn't

matter whether calves fed only pasteurized milk die within six months if

calves would never naturally eat only fresh milk for more than a couple

weeks before adding solid food.

-

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Idol " <Idol@...>

> In that case, I guess I'm going to change my vote in the poll. It doesn't

> matter whether calves fed only pasteurized milk die within six months if

> calves would never naturally eat only fresh milk for more than a couple

> weeks before adding solid food.

If raw milk can sustain them for six months, but pasteurized milk can't,

even if neither would every actually be done in a real-world situation,

isn't that significant?

[Guest guest]

>> >We certainly wouldn't expect to raise our own offspring to maturity

on

>breast milk.

>> No, but how long did societies which traditionally nursed for a very

long

time (years) wait before starting their kids on some solid foods?

My pastor's wife breastfed one of her daughters *exclusively* for two

years due to severe food allergies. Dettwyler's

anthropological research

http://www.prairienet.org/laleche/dettwyler.html is the best place to go

for info on extended breastfeeding in traditional cultures.

~ Carma ~

To be perpetually talking sense runs out the mind, as perpetually

ploughing and taking crops runs out the land. The mind must be manured,

and nonsense is very good for the purpose. ~ Boswell

Carma's Corner: http://www.users.qwest.net/~carmapaden/

[Guest guest]

Yes, I think it would be significant. In fact it wouldn't surprise me in

the least if that is the case, but as far as I know it isn't. That still

isn't the real issue. IF it is true that raw milk alone can sustain calves

for six months, but pasteurized milk can't it should read that way on the

Real Milk website. Merely stating " calves fed pasteurized milk died before

maturity " is just too simplistic and comes off to me as being a very

sensational statement. Interestingly as I was searching the web for

information I found the statement " calves fed pasteurized milk die before

maturity " parroted on a number of websites with no cites or references.

Carmen

<<<<< If raw milk can sustain them for six months, but pasteurized milk

can't,

even if neither would every actually be done in a real-world situation,

isn't that significant? >>>>

[Guest guest]

-

>If raw milk can sustain them for six months, but pasteurized milk can't,

>even if neither would every actually be done in a real-world situation,

>isn't that significant?

Perhaps, but I think the information would be of limited use. There are

undoubtedly some foods which are components of a truly healthy human diet

which wouldn't support life indefinitely if nothing else were

consumed. While I agree that it indicates that pasteurized milk doesn't

(by itself) support life while raw milk does, I don't know that it's of

much use in converting people to the raw milk cause. People don't live on

milk alone.

-