Re: corn tortilla recipe?

April 4, 2002

At 07:59 PM 4/3/2002 -0500, you wrote:

>Does anyone have a recipe for corn tortillas that is in harmony with NT?

>

>Thank you for sharing,

>Joy

I'm no expert, but I've always thought masa is by nature in harmony with

NT. It's made by soaking corn in lime, then drying and grinding it. If you

really want to soak and grind your own, you can, but I think the process

hasn't changed much (at least not for the little masarinas, whose product

they actually sell in our local market). If you have any local Mexican

groceries, you may be able to buy the fresh (undried) masa.

The tortillarias, some of them anyway, make the tortillas pretty much as

they've always been made too, though some do add preservatives. If you can

find a local tortillaria, it's probably pretty authentic, and those are

just made with masa and water.

Or, you can make your own: it's mainly a matter of adding water to the

masa, then patting them out into rounds. Or rolling them between wax paper,

or using a tortilla press, which flattens the masa for you. There is even a

nice gadget that presses and cooks the tortillas at the same time you can

get (do a web search on " tortilla press " ). I have one, and it cooks great

flatbreads of all types, but to actually get them ROUND and flat is an art.

Heidi Schuppenhauer

Trillium Custom Software Inc.

heidis@...

April 5, 2002

Heidi-

>It's made by soaking corn in lime, then drying and grinding it.

Wouldn't a lime soak denature the enzymes and prevent the corn's enzymes

from doing their job?

-

April 5, 2002

At 11:36 PM 4/4/2002 -0500, you wrote:

> >It's made by soaking corn in lime, then drying and grinding it.

>

>Wouldn't a lime soak denature the enzymes and prevent the corn's enzymes

>from doing their job?

I don't know, but on page 454 of NT it says:

" A word about corn: Traditional recipes call for soaking corn or corn flour

in lime water. This releases nicontinamide (vitamin B3) which otherwise

remains bound up in the grain. Soaking also improves the amino acid quality

of proteins in the germ. If you use corn products often, the simple

precaution of soaking corn flour in lime water will help avoid the vitamin

B3 deficiency disease pellagra ... "

Then it goes on to say how to do it, and that you can buy it premade but it

goes rancid quickly and then tastes bitter. It DOES go rancid quickly, but

I'm able to get it pretty fresh and I store it in the freezer. The " real "

tortillias from tortilliarias (which are popping up more now) are pretty

fresh. It doesn't sound difficult to make your own though: you use dolomite

for the lime.

Heidi Schuppenhauer

Trillium Custom Software Inc.

heidis@...

April 5, 2002

Hiedi

I must inject,

Dolomite lime is the ruin of modern agriculture. It has severely high

magnesium, and other properties which has tied up nutrients in the soil

structure to basically turn soil into cement.

I don't know if this is applicable to a soaking process but I would check it

out!!

There are other sources of lime much higher in calcium and lower in magnesium

Heidi Schuppenhauer wrote:

> At 11:36 PM 4/4/2002 -0500, you wrote:

> > >It's made by soaking corn in lime, then drying and grinding it.

> >

> >Wouldn't a lime soak denature the enzymes and prevent the corn's enzymes

> >from doing their job?

>

> I don't know, but on page 454 of NT it says:

>

> " A word about corn: Traditional recipes call for soaking corn or corn flour

> in lime water. This releases nicontinamide (vitamin B3) which otherwise

> remains bound up in the grain. Soaking also improves the amino acid quality

> of proteins in the germ. If you use corn products often, the simple

> precaution of soaking corn flour in lime water will help avoid the vitamin

> B3 deficiency disease pellagra ... "

>

> Then it goes on to say how to do it, and that you can buy it premade but it

> goes rancid quickly and then tastes bitter. It DOES go rancid quickly, but

> I'm able to get it pretty fresh and I store it in the freezer. The " real "

> tortillias from tortilliarias (which are popping up more now) are pretty

> fresh. It doesn't sound difficult to make your own though: you use dolomite

> for the lime.

>

> Heidi Schuppenhauer

> Trillium Custom Software Inc.

> heidis@...

>

April 5, 2002

Traditional hominy is soaked in hardwood ash water. Chemically I always

thought

this produced a lye because that also cooked with tallow produces soap. Hominy

is the masa corn before its dried and ground and after the outer cover has

been

removed by the leaching. Maybe lime works just as well and the cultures that

use masa had a natural lime source. On the pellagra wasn't it found it was

only

in the Southeast tribes? I know of no pellagra in the Iroquois of NY

State/Canada who use the hardwood ash method either to make hominy or

cornmeal.

Is masa just finer ground cornmeal? Difference in the processes ? I'm confused

:-)

Wanita

At 08:12 AM 4/5/02 -0600, you wrote:

>Hiedi

>I must inject,

>Dolomite lime is the ruin of modern agriculture. It has severely high

>magnesium, and other properties which has tied up nutrients in the soil

>structure to basically turn soil into cement.

>I don't know if this is applicable to a soaking process but I would check it

>out!!

>There are other sources of lime much higher in calcium and lower in magnesium

>Heidi Schuppenhauer wrote:

>

>> At 11:36 PM 4/4/2002 -0500, you wrote:

>> > >It's made by soaking corn in lime, then drying and grinding it.

>> >

>> >Wouldn't a lime soak denature the enzymes and prevent the corn's enzymes

>> >from doing their job?

>>

>> I don't know, but on page 454 of NT it says:

>>

>> " A word about corn: Traditional recipes call for soaking corn or corn flour

>> in lime water. This releases nicontinamide (vitamin B3) which otherwise

>> remains bound up in the grain. Soaking also improves the amino acid quality

>> of proteins in the germ. If you use corn products often, the simple

>> precaution of soaking corn flour in lime water will help avoid the vitamin

>> B3 deficiency disease pellagra ... "

>>

>> Then it goes on to say how to do it, and that you can buy it premade but it

>> goes rancid quickly and then tastes bitter. It DOES go rancid quickly, but

>> I'm able to get it pretty fresh and I store it in the freezer. The " real "

>> tortillias from tortilliarias (which are popping up more now) are pretty

>> fresh. It doesn't sound difficult to make your own though: you use dolomite

>> for the lime.

>>

>> Heidi Schuppenhauer

>> Trillium Custom Software Inc.

>> heidis@...

>>

April 5, 2002

hi, wanita and all--

> Traditional hominy is soaked in hardwood ash water. Chemically I

always thought this produced a lye because that also cooked with

tallow produces soap. Hominy is the masa corn before its dried and

ground and after the outer cover has been removed by the leaching.

Maybe lime works just as well and the cultures that use masa had a

natural lime source. On the pellagra wasn't it found it was only in

the Southeast tribes? I know of no pellagra in the Iroquois of NY

State/Canada who use the hardwood ash method either to make hominy or

cornmeal. Is masa just finer ground cornmeal? Difference in the

processes ? >

this is my understanding:

cornmeal is ground corn which hasn't been treated to release the

nicotinamide, a deficiency of which causes pellagra, which was

prevalent among poor southerners, who relied heavily on corn in their

diet.

in mexican culture, " masa " is the *dough* used to make corn

tortillas. the flour used to make masa is called " masa harina " . corn

is soaked in lime water before it is ground into masa harina.

our hominy is known as " pozole " , which is also the name of a type of

soup whose main ingredient is pozole. i always assumed that pozole

was made from the same process of soaking in lime water, but now

you're making me wonder.

allene

April 6, 2002

At 08:12 AM 4/5/2002 -0600, you wrote:

>Hiedi

>I must inject,

>Dolomite lime is the ruin of modern agriculture. It has severely high

>magnesium, and other properties which has tied up nutrients in the soil

>structure to basically turn soil into cement.

>I don't know if this is applicable to a soaking process but I would check it

>out!!

>There are other sources of lime much higher in calcium and lower in magnesium

There may well be: it's beyond my scope at this point! Tortillas as they

are have been prepared for a long time in Mexico, so I figure they are in

the WAP tradition. And are one of the few starches that get along with me,

so they seem digestible. I don't know what they use in the tortillarias. I

don't make them myself: I just quoted the recipe from NT. My store has ones

that work ok for me, and the masa is ok too, but we have a fairly large

Mexican population.

Heidi Schuppenhauer

Trillium Custom Software Inc.

heidis@...

April 6, 2002

At 10:43 AM 4/5/2002 -0500, you wrote:

>Traditional hominy is soaked in hardwood ash water. Chemically I always

>thought

>this produced a lye because that also cooked with tallow produces soap. Hominy

>is the masa corn before its dried and ground and after the outer cover has

>been

>removed by the leaching. Maybe lime works just as well and the cultures that

>use masa had a natural lime source.

I was confused too. The South uses lye: the Indians apparantly used lime.

Lye is a really strong alkali: (Sodium Hydroxide) most of the soaking Sally

refers to is with acids (Vinegar) or whey. Lime is an alkali too, so maybe

corn responds better to alkali soaks than acid soaks. Anyway, hominy and

masa are considered two different things, though they look a whole lot alike.

Heidi Schuppenhauer

Trillium Custom Software Inc.

heidis@...

April 7, 2002

A friend of mine did some research and found that dolomite powder didn't do

the trick. He said dolomite powder is calcium carbonate (Ca CO3) which is

the same as limestone and chalk. When calium carbonate is heated it drives

off carbon dioxide (CO2) leaving calcium oxide (CaO) which is also known as

lime. When it is mixed with water it becomes calcium hydroxide or slaked

lime or limewater. He uses Mrs. Wages pickling lime (calcium oxide). He

feels the dolmite powder or calcium carbonate does not make the necessary

change in the corn. If you want to read more go to

www.braintherapy.com/corn.htm This is way beyond me...I would love to hear

others comments on this subject as I've been wanting to try grinding and

soaking corn but haven't taken the time to research it further myself.

Thanks -

April 7, 2002

I have been wondering if the use of dolomitic lime is really the equivalent

of the lime traditionally used to soak corn, which I believe someone said

was made from wood ashes (producing lye, not lime). Somewhere else I read

that using a more active form of lime (slaked lime?) would be a better way

to make lime water. I have a jar of water with an inch of dolomitic lime in

the bottom that I keep using for making corn meal mush, adding more water as

needed, but the water looks so clear after sitting and the lime never seems

to diminish, so I'm wondering if anything is really happening?

I doubt that the lime water would denature the enzymes.

Kris , gardening in northwest Ohio