Guest guest Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 > > Is there anyone out there that can give a newbie some pointers and/or > reassurance? Sure, just post your address and we'll call an ambulance if we don't here from you tommorow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 >Hi! > >I'm new to the group, and pretty new to this way of eating. I love >Sally Fallon's book, and I've been a Kimchi fan for years. Recently >food allergies and other problems have forced us to rethink our diet, >and I've pretty much gone to making everything from scratch as much >as possible, buying grass-fed beef (Longhorn, yummm!!!!) , etc. > >But this lacto-fermentation idea! I watched a friend make Kimchi as a >teenager, and I tried making a jar of sauerkraut according to the >recipe in the book (using whey), and while it LOOKS ok and SMELLS >good, I'm trying to convince myself it isn't full of botulism and >actually taste it. I've made wine and beer, but they always have lots >of oxygen around and doing an anaerobic process just scares me, I >guess, not knowing anyone else that can check I'm doing it 'right'. I'm not convinced that we really have an anaerobic process happening here. I've made l-f sauerkraut with 1/3 the salt as NT and NO whey (but 1/2 tsp honey...which DOES sometimes carry botulism spores) PLUS boiling water over, and no ill effects. There's air in the jar (Sally is big on that inch below the lid) and in the water, and the jar is not pressure-sealed. Also, the lactic fermentation turns things acid pretty quickly, and acid stomps botulism (why you need the pressure canner for non-acid vegetables.) >Is there anyone out there that can give a newbie some pointers and/or >reassurance? Anyone out there that has gotten food poisoning from >doing something wrong? > >TIA! > >-- Heidi -- Quick www.en.com/users/jaquick " One of these days someone smarter and younger and more articulate than I is going to get through to the American people just how really messed up it has become. And when that happens, the American people are going to rise up like that football crowd in Cleveland and run both teams off the field. " --Sen. Zell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 hi, heidi and all-- < Anyone out there that has gotten food poisoning from doing something wrong? that would be me! my first foray into lacto-fermenting, sauerkraut, gave me food poisoning. i, however, had not prepared it; my cook had. so, there are any number of variables which might have caused it to go awry. i don't know how clean the utensils or the cabbage was; i can't be sure that she used the whey; i don't know how well she sealed it; i do know that the cabbage was not organic. after eating 1T, i had mild diarrhea the next morning while my cook, who had had 2T, was sick --but on her feet-- all the next day. the next wk i tried it again and was in bed all the following day. i have since gotten rid of the cook --as well as that sauerkraut-- and have enjoyed my own l-f sauerkraut, carrots (i just sealed my 2nd batch), and beet kvass. i always use organic and am scrupulous about cleaning. < Sally says if something truly is bad there is no way you'll want to eat it.> here i have to disagree w/sally: my cook's sauerkraut smelled totally innocent. (that's why i trusted it enough to give it a 2nd try.) my advice to you, heidi, is to trust yourself: you know what ingredients, utensils, and methods you used. and, if your trust is misplaced...the food poisoning wasn't that bad <g>! allene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 Hi Heidi, NT really challenges your old way of thinking about food in almost every area. I think the fermenting/culturing part is especially difficult for those of us raised to " refrigerate leftovers immediately " . If you've done any canning, you know all the warnings revolved around it. While I haven't done extensive amounts of vegetable fermenting, everything I've done so far is great. I've done several types of cucumber recipes, ketchup & mustard. I have some sauerkraut done too, but haven't tried it yet. What I do is try a tiny amount and see if it makes me sick even before I let my family try it. I know I'm being a little paranoid, but I'm building up trust in this fermenting process. Whey a most amazing thing. I'm careful to use very clean containers and utensils (freshly washed in hot soapy water). Sally says if something truly is bad there is no way you'll want to eat it. At first all the new way of preparing foods seems overwhelming, but I find that most of the recipes are very easy. NT is one of the most fascinating things that's ever happened to my food! Good luck and have fun. Carmen I'm trying to convince myself it isn't full of botulism and actually taste it. I've made wine and beer, but they always have lots of oxygen around and doing an anaerobic process just scares me, I guess, not knowing anyone else that can check I'm doing it 'right'. Is there anyone out there that can give a newbie some pointers and/or reassurance? Anyone out there that has gotten food poisoning from doing something wrong? TIA! -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 hi, heidi and all-- > I have a question about 'sealing' them. In canning that generally means a hot water bath. Or do you mean just packing the carrots in the jar and screwing the top on? How 'sealed' does the seal need to be? (on some writups, some people leave the lid on loosely so the gas will escape: it seems the jars don't care though).> i just meant screwing the lid on tightly, per the advice of _NT_. but i have that same question: *how* tightly? the morning after making my successful batch of sauerkraut (and leaving an inch of space but no more), i came down to the kitchen just in time to hear the air push the lid out of the seal with such force that it dented it; then i heard the sound of air escaping. when i made the first batch of carrots, i had to tighten the lid the 2nd day, as it had somehow loosened. and then again, although i was tightening the lid, i heard the sound of air escaping. once bitten and all that, i was afraid that these signs meant that i had failed at lacto-fermenting, but i do remember that the lid on the unsuccessful batch could still be pushed in. allene, with fond memories of kimchi and korean squid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 > snip> ...and whether she did anything approaching disinfection between > batches. That could play a large role in her success too... > > >>>>>>>.In commercial cheese production there is much concern about microphage attacking the starter. Disinfection is used in an attempt to destroy 'phage. They also use several different bacteria strains in the starter to keep 'phage from invading and destroying a vat of cheese. I wonder what keeps 'phage out of small at home operations which use the same starter continuously. Dennis Kemnitz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 > > > > > > >Actually, it's acetobacter. There are many types just as there are many > >types of lactobacilli. The main one responsible for vinegar formation, > >however, is acetobacter aceti. I could be wrong, but I believe the name of > >the bacteria is because of the name of the acid produced...or perhaps the > >other way around. > > > >lactobacilli=lactic acid > >acetobacter=acetic acid > > That sounds more correct! > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>So Acetobacter ferment acetose? Joking.Dennis Kemnitz > -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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