question

February 20, 2004

I learned this stuff from these boards (this one, A.S.I. on google

and some bodybuilder ones) and " surfin " the net for the past couple

of years gathering information. One of the best starting points for

learning about this stuff is read: " The Testosterone Syndrome " by

Eugene Shippen, it will give you a good base of knowledge to move

forward with. As for your docs suggestion that he would put you

on " a low dose of TRT " , that would be the opposite of the right

thing to do. Remember, if you take testosterone, your natural

production will go to zero, so a low dose will bring your

testosterone levels down further from where they are now. As a young

person, if you go on testosterone replacement, you should take a

very high dose not a low dose, so you can increase your t to a

healthy level for a young person. At 27, your T should be about the

highest in your life.

But, first thing, read the testosterone syndrome and focus on the

chapters about HCG.

Armyguy

> > > > > Hi, I'm new to the group and wanted to see if I could find

> > some

> > > > > answers from anyone out there. If anyone has a minute to

> > respond,

> > > > > that would be appreciated!! Here is my situation:

> > > > >

> > > > > About a year and a half ago I had my horomone levels

checked

> > and

> > > > they

> > > > > were as follows (I'm 27 yrs. old):

> > > > > Estradiol 20

> > > > > Prolactin 14.1 ng/mL

> > > > > Total Testosterone 343 ng/dL

> > > > > Free Testosterone 10.08 ng/dL

> > > > > Percent free testosterone 2.94 (H) %

> > > > >

> > > > > Thyroid Studies: (not sure what this is?)

> > > > > TSH 1.35 uIU/mL

> > > > > Free T4 0.59 ng/dL

> > > > >

> > > > > The reason that the doc checked the levels was because I

had

> > > > slight

> > > > > gynecomastia and they wanted to check for any horomone

> > > > abnormalities

> > > > > that might have contributed to this. I was told that all

the

> > > > levels

> > > > > were normal.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now, a year and a half later I recently went with my wife

to

> > see

> > > 2

> > > > > separate infertilty docs (because of my wife's

> endometriosis).

> > > One

> > > > of

> > > > > the docs says my testosterone levels are low and the other

> > says

> > > > they

> > > > > are fine. This confused me and so I started doing some of

my

> > own

> > > > > research to find answers, but am still confused.

> > > > >

> > > > > I feel like I have some of the symptoms of hypogonadism

> > because

> > > > for

> > > > > about the past year, my sex drive has not been so great.

When

> > I

> > > > get

> > > > > an erection, it is soft and often will not stay unless

> > constantly

> > > > > stimulated. I figured that this was maybe due to stress or

> > just

> > > > > because I was getting a little older past the teenage

years.

> > But

> > > > now

> > > > > I wonder if it is related to my testosterone levels. Also,

I

> > have

> > > > > suffered from mild to medium depression for some time now.

I

> > also

> > > > > noticed this is a symptom of low testosterone. Another

> symptom

> > I

> > > > > noted is that I do not have much body hair. My questions

are:

> > > > >

> > > > > Does anyone know if my horomone levels are considered low?

> > > > >

> > > > > If so, are there safe treatments that wouldn't affect

sperm

> > > > > production?

> > > > >

> > > > > Why are my docs saying 2 separate things?

> > > > >

> > > > > Any feedback would be appreciated!

> > > > >

February 25, 2004

The AACE document is in the Files section of our website.

Brad

> Have you had a chance to read " The Testosterone Syndrome " it will

help you understand a lot. And I don't know if you ever went to the

links section here and read the links you can learn a lot. Here is 2

good links.

> http://www.aace.com/clin/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

> http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-130.shtml#too

> Print out the first one and give it to your Dr. That is if you are

going to keep going to him.

> Phil

>

February 25, 2004

> Hi,

> I got my lab results back today. Not sure what to make of them. I

>meet with the doc tomorrow but I am not sure he knows much about this

>stuff. Does anyone have any recommendations for my results? I think

>they look fine, except that the T looks to be too low.

My tests used different reference ranges but were not entirely

dissimilar. I learned that I have primary hypogonadism (my testicles

are not capable of secreting enough testosterone). It is possible

that you are having the same problem.

> However, since it is in the range of normal, I am not sure what the

>doc will be willing to do. Maybe I should just buy some Clomid and

>HCG on my own to take for a few weeks. Would that be dangerous?

If you have hypogonadism you'll need on-going treatment, not just a

few weeks. I don't know that its necessarily dangerous but I don't

think its productive. You need to collect appropriate diagnostic info

so you can receive appropriate medical treatment. At best,

self-medication isn't going to enhance your doc's level of trust and

comfort with you.

I would suggest taking the AACE clinical guidlines document with you

to your appointment. Ask for either the clomiphene stimulation or the

hcg stimulation test discussed under the heading of " dynamic tests " .

I had the clomid test. Prior to the clomid, my testosterone was low

but in range. My LH and FSH were at the middle of the range. After

clomiphene, my LH and FSH went outside the high end of the range but

my testosterone was unchanged. This would indicate that my testicles

were already secreting as much testosterone as they were capable of.

So I have primary hypogonadism. This helps somewhat to rebut the

observation that my test levels were low but " normal " when, in fact, I

needed higher levels.

There are probably some naysayers who would say, " Yes, your testicular

capacity is limited, but your level is still adequate. "

Good luck,

Brad

>Anyways, here are the results:

>

> Free T4: 0.75 ng/dL (reference: 0.71 - 1.85)

> Thyroid stimulating hormone: uIU/mL 1.81 (reference: 0.45-4.67)

> FSH: 5.2 mU/mL (reference: 1.0-8.0)

> LH: 7.0 mU/mL (reference: 2.0-12.0)

> Prolactin: 13.8 ng/mL (reference: 1.6-18.8)

> Testosterone, Total Serum: 408 ng/dL (reference: 400-1080)

>

> If anyone has any feedback, that would be great.

> Thanks!

>

May 1, 2004

I would definitely say lowering the dosage is a good way to go. Will

probably help lower estradiol and also will lead you towards your

goal of getting off the clomid completely.

Armyguy

> Since using Clomid to raise your LH and raise testosterone will

cause

> Estrodial to increase is there a certain point where the testicles

> can only produce so much T and all the excess LH does is stimulate

> more E ? My LH has been sky high (17-20) for weeks and My T is

> around 1,000 in the morning, my Dr put me on 1mg of Arimidex a day

to

> lower my E and it went from 77 to 68 in 2 weeks. I'm starting to

> question how long i should stay on the 100mg/day of Clomid and may

> taper the dosage off to 75mg/day for the next 2 weeks then get my

> blood drawn

May 1, 2004

On Sat, 01 May 2004 15:28:43 -0000, you wrote:

>Since Arimidex

>also makes LH go up

?? Basis for this? I haven't seen this.

Does the blocking of estrogen stop feedback from that?

May 1, 2004

>

> >Since Arimidex

> >also makes LH go up

>

> ?? Basis for this? I haven't seen this.

>

> Does the blocking of estrogen stop feedback from that?

Yes, decreased estradiol means less inhibitory feedback so more LH & test.

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

Brad

June 30, 2004

Listen to your gut..............are most of your symptoms gone?

If not.........I would stick with the abx...........Remember you have to go

through several cycles of the spirochete......and then you should be free of

symptoms for at least one full cycle.

If you feel that you can now work on rebuilding your immune system, then go

for it..........and start rebuilding..........listen to your gut.

When I stopped abx, I actually had withdrawal symptoms from stopping the

abx...........it felt like the lyme was coming back.

It took me about six months after stopping the abx before my body started

feeling normal again.

It is a tough decision to make....and one only you and your Dr. can decide

on together...........there are too many variables.(how long before dx,

symptoms, blood tests, etc.

Good Luck,

Keep us posted,

Conniek nwnj

July 8, 2004

<<<<< I have taken my self off abx's, have been off for about 2 months, and yes

I still herx ever month but it only last for 2-3 days and then I'm feeling

great.>>>>>>

Are you saying you take a break from abx and then go back on?

I would take breaks from abx during my treatment for Lyme.

I believe some Drs. actually do kind of a pulse abx therapy......so many days on

and so many days off.........kind of allowing the spirochetes to come out of

their hiding places.......and then have them get zapped by the abx.

I really think you have to be an active participant in your treatment......only

you know for sure when to stop treatment, switch abx, or just take a break from

abx. You can discuss it all with your Dr and he/she can make suggestions, but

that Dr. isn't in your body, and really doesn't know exactly how you are

feeling.......

Listen to your gut.........and make the final decision on what you should do.

Conniek nwnj

July 9, 2004

Connie,

I was doing pulse all along even though the doctor never told me. I found that

my body couldn't take all those drugs and vitamins everday. I feel that are

body is in such a turmoil with the lyme and know we are going to put all these

different drugs and vitamins into it doesn't know which way to turn. I would

never tell anyone to do what I'm doing and stopping their abx's,but I felt I

wasn't give my body a chance to do what it was suppose to do.I can't say that I

feel 100% better but I don't feel as bad as I did. I suppose I will have to go

back on something in the future, but for right know I'll stick with my vitamins

and see how I feel. Janet

July 9, 2004

That's great. Janet,..........keep feeling well!!

Conniek nwnj

July 12, 2004

> hi all,

I didn't mean to affend anyone with the one child left behind post. I

was just posting it to let everyone know that all is not always what

it seems, especially what you hear about the education system with

our kids on tv with the president.

>

July 23, 2004

-Hi,

Sorry your husband is having a hard run now. My husband has RA and I

have Pa so we are quite a team! We both got hit at about the same

time one year ago, but he was in real bad shape, ended up in the

hospital 3 times in the period of one year. I finally just went to

his rheumy last week, and I had xrays & blood test and will know

something next week. It really hurts to see your spouse or other

family member suffer so. He was on the mtx pills then the rheumy put

him on the mtx injections instead because the pills made him feel

terrible. He did not stay on the mtx too long though, now he is on

the minacin antibiotic protocal. Hope your husband finds some relief.

a

-- In , <crissyclinton@b...> wrote:

> Hi it is me Crissy, 's wife again. I have a question about

my husbands PA. He has had PA for no telling how long but he

guesses around 10 years. He always just thought they were aches and

pains from working too hard. I just managed to get him to go to the

dr. when his pains got so bad that he literally couldn't get out of

bed. Well he went to a Rhumatoligist (I know I murdered the

spelling) and was put on quite a few medicines,prednislone, MTX, and

maybe one more but I can't recall at the moment. At first it seemed

that they weren't helping but then about 2 weeks into the meds he

was so much better. Not 100% but enough to start enjoying his life

again. We went to the casino, brought our daughter to an aquarium,

took pictures, he was happy again. His inflammation numbers in his

blood were down from in the 80's(6/15/04) to 37 as of (7/6/04). At

his next appointment on 7/13/04 his dr. was thrilled. He said that

he was very happy with the results of the meds but he wanted to up

the MTX by one pill to see if he could get even better. Well that

next day was wednesday my husband's MTX day and since then he has

been feeling horrible again. I don't quite remember if he felt bad

that morning before his meds. Could he just be having a flare(it

has been bad for a little over a week) or could the increase of MTX

be having an effect on him or could his body just have gotten used

to the medicine? I want to note that he is also having a bad time

with his skin right now. All of his Psorisis patches are really red

and hurting. He uses Olux foam for them and it usually helps them

alot but right now they seem really angry. It makes me so sad to

see him in so much pain. He is such a great man he always trys to

think of me and Dacie instead of himself. It really hurts that I

can't do anything to help him. It is hard for me to be the strong

one that is in charge of keeping everything together. But he has

always been there when I needed someone to keep my world from

falling apart so now it is my turn to do the same for him. Well I

just wanted to know everyone's opinion on why he is having such a

hard time again. He is getting blood work done again on Monday and

we will see what is the next step from there.

>

> Thanks in advance for any opinions/advice,

> Crissy Clinton

July 24, 2004

Hi Crissy,

sorry your husband is having such a hard time again, and some of the more

experienced drug users can be of more help with your questions than I can.

I do however want to say that you ARE helping your husband just by writing

to this list. I know what it feels like to feel helpless when the ones you

love are sick, but you really are helping in the way that you can. This

disease is terrible for both those who have it and for those with loved ones

who have it.

Hang in there :-)

July 25, 2004

Dear Crissy, Sorry my response is so slow. My hands have been so bad it's

been really difficult to type and I really do hate not being able to

communicate...After reading your email, my first thought was maybe your

husband simply has been over doing everything. So often when the medication

kicks in and we feel for the first time in ages like ourselves again, the

first thing we do is go out and make up for lost time. You stated several

things your husband did when he was feeling better and maybe all the extra

activity simply caused a flare.

I didn't do too well on MTX, but I am still on prednisone much to my dismay

after 2 years. How much prednisone is he taking daily? It is a great drug,

but so often with so many of these drugs you feel like you are making a deal

with the devil when you take it. The side effects can be so horrible at

times you wonder if it is worth the reduction in pain and inflammation. Out

of all my medication, it's been the hardest for me to get off. I also have

had more problems than most with other medications and allergic reactions,

so hopefully he won't get as dependent on it as I was.

Anyway, I just wanted to say, that maybe everything is working as well as

can be expected, but try to convince him to take it easy even when he feels

better. Believe me it's hard to do and I'm only writing this because I've

done the same thing over and over. Sometimes the pain from overdoing it is

worth the free time you have, other times it isn't. Something he has to

judge for himself.

I also wanted to say thanks for pointing out how hard this is on our

spouses. It's real easy when we are the ones in pain and with the diseases

to forget that our family suffers right along with us, only in a different

way. Your email made me go hug my husband and thank him again for all he

does for me. I know it many ways I'll never be able to make up to him all

he has done and all he has been through with my health issues over the

years. So far, most of the time, he still seems happy and that's what I try

to go on. Take care and good luck. Let me know if I can help in anyway.

Love, Fran

[ ] Question

Hi it is me Crissy, 's wife again. I have a question about my

husbands PA. He has had PA for no telling how long but he guesses around 10

years. He always just thought they were aches and pains from working too

hard. I just managed to get him to go to the dr. when his pains got so bad

that he literally couldn't get out of bed. Well he went to a Rhumatoligist

(I know I murdered the spelling) and was put on quite a few

medicines,prednislone, MTX, and maybe one more but I can't recall at the

moment. At first it seemed that they weren't helping but then about 2 weeks

into the meds he was so much better. Not 100% but enough to start enjoying

his life again. We went to the casino, brought our daughter to an aquarium,

took pictures, he was happy again. His inflammation numbers in his blood

were down from in the 80's(6/15/04) to 37 as of (7/6/04). At his next

appointment on 7/13/04 his dr. was thrilled. He said that he was very happy

with the results of the meds but he wanted to up the MTX by one pill to see

if he could get even better. Well that next day was wednesday my husband's

MTX day and since then he has been feeling horrible again. I don't quite

remember if he felt bad that morning before his meds. Could he just be

having a flare(it has been bad for a little over a week) or could the

increase of MTX be having an effect on him or could his body just have

gotten used to the medicine? I want to note that he is also having a bad

time with his skin right now. All of his Psorisis patches are really red

and hurting. He uses Olux foam for them and it usually helps them alot but

right now they seem really angry. It makes me so sad to see him in so much

pain. He is such a great man he always trys to think of me and Dacie

instead of himself. It really hurts that I can't do anything to help him.

It is hard for me to be the strong one that is in charge of keeping

everything together. But he has always been there when I needed someone to

keep my world from falling apart so now it is my turn to do the same for

him. Well I just wanted to know everyone's opinion on why he is having such

a hard time again. He is getting blood work done again on Monday and we

will see what is the next step from there.

Thanks in advance for any opinions/advice,

Crissy Clinton

July 26, 2004

> > Hi it is me Crissy, 's wife again. I have a question about

> my husbands PA. He has had PA for no telling how long but he

> guesses around 10 years. He always just thought they were aches

and

> pains from working too hard. I just managed to get him to go to

the

> dr. when his pains got so bad that he literally couldn't get out

of

> bed. Well he went to a Rhumatoligist (I know I murdered the

> spelling) and was put on quite a few medicines,prednislone, MTX,

and

> maybe one more but I can't recall at the moment. At first it

seemed

> that they weren't helping but then about 2 weeks into the meds he

> was so much better. Not 100% but enough to start enjoying his

life

> again. We went to the casino, brought our daughter to an

aquarium,

> took pictures, he was happy again. His inflammation numbers in

his

> blood were down from in the 80's(6/15/04) to 37 as of (7/6/04).

At

> his next appointment on 7/13/04 his dr. was thrilled. He said

that

> he was very happy with the results of the meds but he wanted to up

> the MTX by one pill to see if he could get even better. Well that

> next day was wednesday my husband's MTX day and since then he has

> been feeling horrible again. I don't quite remember if he felt

bad

> that morning before his meds. Could he just be having a flare(it

> has been bad for a little over a week) or could the increase of

MTX

> be having an effect on him or could his body just have gotten used

> to the medicine? I want to note that he is also having a bad time

> with his skin right now. All of his Psorisis patches are really

red

> and hurting. He uses Olux foam for them and it usually helps them

> alot but right now they seem really angry. It makes me so sad to

> see him in so much pain. He is such a great man he always trys to

> think of me and Dacie instead of himself. It really hurts that I

> can't do anything to help him. It is hard for me to be the strong

> one that is in charge of keeping everything together. But he has

> always been there when I needed someone to keep my world from

> falling apart so now it is my turn to do the same for him. Well I

> just wanted to know everyone's opinion on why he is having such a

> hard time again. He is getting blood work done again on Monday

and

> we will see what is the next step from there.

> >

> > Thanks in advance for any opinions/advice,

> > Crissy Clinton

August 19, 2004

Sorry to hear you're in such a hurting place. For most of my life, I lived

with terrible foot and ankle pain. My " magic elixir " has been Humira, but

MTX also helped me after being on it for about 8 weeks. I find that cortisone

shots in the ankles about 3 times a year plus a Humira shot every other week

is the right mix for me. I can finally use my feet and ankles for normal

activities such as working. I can't walk very far and stairs are a killer, but

as long as I don't overdo it, I'm not usually in too much pain. I take

advantage of riders in big stores rather than making myself miserable and

causing

my joints more damage. So for me, a combination of medications and a lot of

foot rest has been the right path. It has enabled me to keep working and to

do some (not all, but some) of the things I used to enjoy doing with my

family and friends. If the MTX does not start helping you soon, you might need

to

tell your rheumy that you are ready to try Remicade, Enbrel or Humira.

Wishing you wellness,

Kathy F.

Hey guys I havent logged on in a while because i have been really

tired and not feeling too well. I have a question. My right ankle

is so swollen and hurts so bad to walk on it. it did this one other

time and the rheumy gave me a shot of cortisone and it went down some

but not completely. That was about 1 month ago. i have been wearing

an ankle brace trying to keep the swelling down. Have any of you had

anything like this happen to you? my left foot was swollen at one

time but it wasnt my ankle it was the top of my foot and now i have a

hard mass there. I have made an appointment with a foot doctor on

Tuesday 8/24 because i cant take the pain anymore. about 1 month ago

i started on methotrexate and prednisone and also darvocet. i am

supposed to take the darvocet 4 times a day but they knock me out and

i am afraid that i cant function at my job. any help would be

great. Thanks so much to each and everyone of you because i know

that i can always come here and talk with people who know exactly

what i am dealing with here cause you deal with it too. It depresses

me so much that i am 26 and cant get aroung like other people my age

or for that matter people who are older. this disease scares me to

death.

August 19, 2004

I know this is sort of OT, but everyone here is so knowledgable I figured

someone here could point me in the right direction for the info I need.

My 7yr old goes to our local public school. He's in spec ed-he receives

resource reading & math, speech & OT. We just received a letter from them that

they did not meet adequate yearly progress in the special education subgroup.

Because of this I have the option of sending him to one of two other

schools in the district. is going into 2nd grade, so he's only

spent

1yr at this school, but we were happy w/the services he received. He's very

anxious about going into 2nd grade (he's dx'd w/ Bipolar, ADHD, anxiety &

possibly OCD & ODD plus LD's) & I don't want to make it worse for him.

My question's are:

1. Where can I find more info about NCLB & spec ed-I don't know a lot about

NCLB in general nevermind how it relates to spec ed.

2. Is there any way/place to help make a decision on what's best? I want

him to get the best possible education, obviously, but I don't feel his ed in

1st grade was lacking.

Thanks

_Silver Ribbon Campaign for the Brain. Wear a Silver Ribbon to Fight

Stigma!_ (http://www.silverribbon.org/)

August 19, 2004

I really don't know what you should do, but I know what NOT to do....do NOT

wait! Find someone that will address the problem now. I am as flat footed

as a duck now, and have very limited mobility because it took the medical

world too long to find out what was wrong with me. They put me in a

foot/ankle brace which in turn made my opposite hip get far too much wear

and tear on it. Ultimately I had a hip replacement, but the ankle was too

far gone for surgery to make much difference. Try to get that inflammation

down.pop whatever pill, shoot whatever biologic drug, do whatever it takes,

but do not fool around with it. Enbrel has certainly improved my life, but

not before sooo much damage was done to my foot/ankle that there isn't much

that can be done now. I think a lot of mine could have been avoided if I

had been treated for something more than an orthopedic problem. Good luck!

Liz T