Homemade bone meal powder?

[Guest guest]

ok, I've joined the supplement bandwagon, reluctantly. I've been

taking a teaspoon of cod liver oil and cod liver oil derived vitamin

D supplement. But I've been lacto-fermenting a few ideas (*groans*)

and I've pretty much come to the following conclusion: everything

that I read about that is healthy is found abundantly in the liver,

so I really, really need to start eating it. Everytime I read on

something WAP-ish, like the biological processes in which Vitamin D

is metabolized, the liver always plays a prominant role. Anyways, the

masai are a smart people, when it comes to nutrition I think liver

really is sacred.

Bianca, you would be proud of me. I've given up cooking liver; it

only makes the stuff taste worse. Now I've started grating off a few

pshavings of raw, frozen liver. Its still not tasty, but its not

completely repugnant. Maybe in 20 years I'll even start to like it!

But also a good source of minerals is required. Like many in this

group I love milk and drink about a quart a day of good raw milk.

That's a great source of minerals, but I think I should be

supplementing because as Chi and others will point out, even good

farms have relatively poor soils.

So I thought a homemade bone meal powder, or perhaps better yet a

homemade oyster shell powder. I don't want to take a supplement

version because of the high heat processing. Instead I'll make my own

with quality ingrediants. Bone meal sounds good, but it may be

minerally deficient. Oyster shell may not suffer from that, but I

worry about the mercury. What does everyone think about those

options, or other approaches?

*guesses that Kroyer has already put some thought into this*

[Guest guest]

> *guesses that Kroyer has already put some thought into this*

Man, that's creepy! Yes I've put some thought into this recently.

Unfortunately, I haven't put much research in yet. My impression though is

that bone meal would be the better avenue to take for two reasons:

digestibility and biological appropriateness. Bone meal closely resembles

the composition of our own bones, oyster shell doesn't. Also oyster shell

is overwhelmingly calcium carbonate which is not one of the more absorabable

forms of calcium from what I understand. To become absorbable it must first

be dissolved by the hydrochloric acid which some people already have in

insufficient supply.

I've been thinking I'd like to add a few gram capsules per day of finely

ground bone meal from grass-fed cattle. I'd also like to include a some

powdered kelp in that preparation since I'm in the goiter belt and we no

longer use iodized salt.

You're a braver person than I with regard to the raw liver. The stuff is

just so slimy and nasty in its raw state that I can't bring myself to

consume it raw. I'm willing to saute it gently and leave it pink in the

middle...but not raw. Raw muscle meat I have no problem with, but

liver...nope, not yet...

By the way, what made you guess that I'd been thinking about bone meal?

Have I already forgotten something relevant that I posted recently?

[Guest guest]

>>> Bone meal closely resembles

the composition of our own bones, oyster shell doesn't. Also oyster shell

is overwhelmingly calcium carbonate which is not one of the more absorabable

forms of calcium from what I understand.

***Hmmm...I thought the CA in *bone* is CA carbonate as well...

I've read conflicting info on which form is more absorbable, but I feed my

dogs bones and eggshell powder (Ca carbonate) because they (particularly the

bone) are natural sources of Ca and other minerals for their species. As far

as humans go, I'd imagine bones would also be an extremely appropriate

source of minerals.

>>>>I've been thinking I'd like to add a few gram capsules per day of finely

ground bone meal from grass-fed cattle.

***Here I go again with more dog stories, but the issue of bonemeal comes

often on the pet health lists I belong to, and it's generally thought that

bonemeal is not a great thing due to the high heat processing and the high

phos content (which could throw off ca:phos ratio for dogs, don't know what

proper ca:phos ratio is for humans). I think I remember reading something

about contaminants too, but could be mistaken. mentioned homemade

bonemeal, but I don't know what equipment you'd use for that. I have a meat

grinder that I use for chicken bones, but it makes a hamburger-like

consistency, not powder. (Hey , since you're so brave with the liver,

you might as well just eat raw ground chicken bones for minerals! I'm not

kidding...it's crossed my mind before - BARF for humans

The only equipment I'm aware of that can make bone *powder* is the expensive

professional meat saws. Some folks I know of request the saw trimmings from

butchers, which is bone and fat.

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

>

> You're a braver person than I with regard to the raw liver. The

stuff is

> just so slimy and nasty in its raw state that I can't bring myself

to

> consume it raw. I'm willing to saute it gently and leave it pink

in the

> middle...but not raw. Raw muscle meat I have no problem with, but

> liver...nope, not yet...

Sauteing just makes it worse, IMO. I have no clue how people once

actually liked the stuff.

Anyways, the only thing I can think of is to use a giant morter and

pestle. Or a sledgehammer? I figure roasting them first should help,

they should be more brittle, and at least when it comes to making

stock, it releases the minerals more easily.

I tried

>

> By the way, what made you guess that I'd been thinking about bone

meal?

> Have I already forgotten something relevant that I posted recently?

>

Mwuhahahaha!!!! .... ahahaha!! ... hehe!!!

um, what were talking about?

[Guest guest]

Try eating the vertebrae from chicken or fish carcasses left over from

making stock. They're soft enough to eat and don't splinter. I've

been meaning to start eating a few every day as a calcium supplement,

since high quality milk and cheese is so expensive.

[Guest guest]

If you're consuming stock on a daily basis is it necessary to supplement with

Calcium? After my stock has cooked for three days there isn't a lot of bones

left. They are full of pit holes very soft and I would think a ton of

calcium has been released in the stock.

[Guest guest]

> ***Hmmm...I thought the CA in *bone* is CA carbonate as well...

> I've read conflicting info on which form is more absorbable, but I feed my

> dogs bones and eggshell powder (Ca carbonate) because they (particularly

the

> bone) are natural sources of Ca and other minerals for their species. As

far

> as humans go, I'd imagine bones would also be an extremely appropriate

> source of minerals.

No, bone calcium is in the form of hydroxyapatite. It's worth noting that

Standard Process's Calcifood is made primarily from bone.

> and it's generally thought that bonemeal is not a great thing due to the

> high heat processing and the high phos content (which could throw off

ca:phos

> ratio for dogs, don't know what proper ca:phos ratio is for humans).

That seems odd to me that bone would not have the proper Ca/Phos ratio for

dogs. Where in nature would the canines have been getting a calcium source

more concentrated than bone (on a consistent basis)? Also I don'know

whether the high heat processing would have an impact or not. Unless I can

find a good source of high quality finely powdered bone, I was thinking of

actually using the bone remnants from making stock and grinding those. They

are fairly soft and would grind relatively easily...many will even crumble

by hand.

It seems to me that the portion that has dissolved into the stock will be

absorbed that way, and anything left behind should be even more absorbable

once reduced to a powder...

[Guest guest]

> Sauteing just makes it worse, IMO. I have no clue how people once

> actually liked the stuff.

Have you tried adding ground/grated liver to ground meat and sauteeing that?

I think that it's much easier to become accustomed to the flavor if you

start with a milder version of it. I thought that about 1/4 pureed liver to

about 3/4 hamburger and/or sausage was pretty good once I browned it. I

used it in a spaghetti sauce (on spaghetti squash or lentils and grains). I

actually don't mind liver anyway, but my wife isn't a fan. She liked the

meat and liver mixture though. Making sure that it's ground or pureed

thoroughly so that it really mixes in well is important though...as is not

using too much.

> I figure roasting them first should help,

> they should be more brittle, and at least when it comes to making

> stock, it releases the minerals more easily.

At least initially I'm just planning on using the bones that have already

been used for stock...they're very very brittle after having been eternally

boiled. I also think that it's more likely to be proper mineral ratios and

so forth if the remnants from stock get incorporated somehow. Powdering and

encapsulating them would seem the most palatable.

[Guest guest]

Me:

>>>> and it's generally thought that bonemeal is not a great thing due to

the

> high heat processing and the high phos content (which could throw off

ca:phos

> ratio for dogs, don't know what proper ca:phos ratio is for humans).

S:

That seems odd to me that bone would not have the proper Ca/Phos ratio for

dogs. Where in nature would the canines have been getting a calcium source

more concentrated than bone (on a consistent basis)?

Me:

The Ca in bone balances out with the phos in meat. The " ideal " ratio for

dogs is considered to be approx 2.1:1 (Ca:P). *Meaty* bones (which is not

what bonemeal is made of to my understanding) are much closer to what's

considered the ideal ratio for dogs. Eg; chicken necks. Predomestication

dogs ate the meat and organs of prey as well as the bone. Generally, wild

dogs/wolves do not eat weight-bearing bones. So whatever bone is left, plus

the meat and organs, is the ratio they consumed. For puppies, I believe the

" ideal " ratio is higher, but am not sure as I haven't dealt with puppies in

years! And I think the " ideal " ratios are being questioned by some.

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 08 Apr 2002 16:34:43 -0000 " justinbond " <justin_bond@...>

writes:

ok, I've joined the supplement bandwagon, reluctantly. I've been

taking a teaspoon of cod liver oil and cod liver oil derived vitamin

D supplement. But I've been lacto-fermenting a few ideas (*groans*)

and I've pretty much come to the following conclusion: everything

that I read about that is healthy is found abundantly in the liver,

so I really, really need to start eating it. Everytime I read on

something WAP-ish, like the biological processes in which Vitamin D

is metabolized, the liver always plays a prominent role. Anyways, the

masai are a smart people, when it comes to nutrition I think liver

really is sacred.

******Ahhhh, another convert to the organ meats <weg>

Bianca, you would be proud of me. I've given up cooking liver; it

only makes the stuff taste worse. Now I've started grating off a few

pshavings of raw, frozen liver. Its still not tasty, but its not

completely repugnant. Maybe in 20 years I'll even start to like it!

*******Hey I am proud of you! You can shave all your frozen organ meats

into a tonic style vegetable drink for example. For many people it is

more palatable that way. My favorite organ meat is sweetbreads. On the

rare occasion I have a salad I will bury the organ meats within it. But

you are right, you will be surprised how your tastes can change over the

years once you *conceptually* get over the hump. :-)

But also a good source of minerals is required. Like many in this

group I love milk and drink about a quart a day of good raw milk.

******So you ingest more raw foods than you have lead us to believe

(another wide evil grin). Seriously, a quart of good raw milk is quite

substantive (and protective) on any style diet.

Bianca