Re: Dietary fat and liver health

[Guest guest]

>There's a widespread opinion that fat is difficult to

>digest and should be limited if liver in not

>functioning well. My mother and my sister have had bad

>livers, and mine wasn't perfect either. So my mother

>was told by doctors to reduce fat intake. Partly

>because of that, we never had bone or meat broths,

With a refrigerator, broth can be very low fat...just chill it and

lift the fat off.

--

Quick

www.en.com/users/jaquick

" One of these days someone smarter and younger and more articulate

than I is going to get through to the American people just how really

messed up it has become. And when that happens, the American people are

going to rise up like that football crowd in Cleveland and run both

teams off the field. " --Sen. Zell

[Guest guest]

>From: Quick <jaq@...>

> >There's a widespread opinion that fat is difficult to

> >digest and should be limited if liver in not

> >functioning well. My mother and my sister have had bad

> >livers, and mine wasn't perfect either. So my mother

> >was told by doctors to reduce fat intake. Partly

> >because of that, we never had bone or meat broths,

>

>With a refrigerator, broth can be very low fat...just chill it and

>lift the fat off.

I've seen numerous references to removing the fat from broth, both on this

list and on the WAPF web site. Why?

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[Guest guest]

>> There's a widespread opinion that fat is difficult to

digest and should be limited if liver in not

functioning well. <SNIP> Does anyone here know how true that is? <<

Well, I know how true it is for ME. Which is: Not. I had gallstones

after the birth of my second child. Rather than letting them cut me

open, I went looking and found I was allergic to wheat/gluten. (Read the

whole story at my website if you want - click the Health link and read

" You're Not Cutting Me Open. " ) They said I couldn't eat fat, but what I

found myself was that as long as I wasn't eating the foods I was

sensitive to, I could eat all the fat I wanted and not have any trouble.

This was pre-NT days, and I often had a whole plate of loaded nachos

followed with a pint of Ben and Jerry's finest, so I KNOW from fat! ;-)

Now I'm trying to eat better and what I find is that I can still eat all

the fat I want (GOOD fats, now). I sometimes get tempted and let myself

cheat a little on eating sensitive foods (wheat), but when I go too far

I get liver pain, and if I go farther than that I start with gallbladder

pains again. You know how they tell gallbladder patients that they

shouldn't wear anything tight around the abdomen - it's true, and even

though I don't have any more gallbladder attacks, I still cannot wear

tight waistbands, so I know that I'm not all healed up in there.

So, for what it's worth, I have a terrible liver and gallbladder but I

can eat all the fat I want, as long as I avoid my chief allergen.

~ Carma ~

To be perpetually talking sense runs out the mind, as perpetually

ploughing and taking crops runs out the land. The mind must be manured,

and nonsense is very good for the purpose. ~ Boswell

Carma's Corner: http://www.users.qwest.net/~carmapaden/

[Guest guest]

-

>I've seen numerous references to removing the fat from broth, both on this

>list and on the WAPF web site. Why?

As far as I know all stock and broth recipes involve removing the fat. I

expect the long, long cooking times break down the fat, making it rancid

and unhealthy.

-

[Guest guest]

If you don't have enough bile, fat is hard to digest. I've heard it puts a

strain on the gall bladder and liver, but most of what I've heard quoted

relates to people who were on real low calorie diets then suddenly pigged out.

I found coconut oil to be a good substitute: it digests more like a carb

(yummy to cook with too). MCT (a fraction of coconut oil) is used for kids

with cystic fibrosis for this reason. Lately it's been replaced somewhat by

some artificial fats that are easy to digest too (short chain) -- I'm told

the main reason for this is that MCT can dissolve plastics and a lot of the

kids who need it are fed by plastic tube. Whole coconut oil doesn't have

this problem and it's easier to cook with. Thanks Sally!!!!!

Drinking wine with a meal is the French way to deal with fats. It works:

there is some interaction between the alchohol and the fat. Can't say it's

good for your liver though.

However -- I figured out that my own fat digestion problems had to do with

food problems NOT related to fat, specifically to gluten intolerance, which

tends to affect your liver (and gall bladder and pancreas) by blocking the

output ducts for the digestive enyzmes. So for me, getting rid of gluten

has pretty much gotten rid of the fat digestion problem too. Gluten

intolerance is relatively common, and I personally think it is a root cause

of a lot of the digestion issues (besides the other issues like

over-processed foods, lack of food enzymes etc.). Today's wheat is a lot

different than historic wheat, and wheat wasn't the end-all be-all dietary

staple that it is today. Now we eat nice juicy grass-fed steak with

potatoes and butter and digest them just fine, thank you.

-- Heidi S.

[Guest guest]

At 08:54 PM 3/27/2002 -0700, you wrote:

>So, for what it's worth, I have a terrible liver and gallbladder but I

>can eat all the fat I want, as long as I avoid my chief allergen.

With that testimony in mind, raw fats are healing to the body. It's when

they (some types more than others) are cooked that some problems can arise,

IMHO.

Regards,

-=mark=-

[Guest guest]

Hi Roman,

This is a commonly held thought, I find that they are really two

distinct issues. One is that if the liver and gallbladder are

functioning poorly, they are functioning poorly whether fat is

consumed or not and this issue must be addressed, as to go thru life

with a poorly functioning liver/gallb is no way to to thru life and

this is addressed it will pose problems some clinical some sub

clinical. Just not eating fat or not eating foods that aggravate and

assuming that everything is just fine (there's that word again) is

akin to being stiff when you get out of bed and just deciding that not

getting out of bed is not nearly as painful so you'll just stay in

bed. Certainly things that aggravate which may include specific fats

and other foods should be avoided as the liver/gallb heal however the

initial point is after years and years of abuse and malfunction it is

best to support those tissues as they heal and restore themselves back

to some semblance of sane function.

The second issue is that of limiting fat consumption. I find this is

an issue that needs to be addressed per person. And usually if any

fat restriction is absolutely necessary it is only for 2-4 weeks at

the very most and this is typically with the worst of the worst cases

where any fat consumption has them on the floor. This is the rare

exception. The bottom line is that any food that is not metabolized

well and obviously a healthy liver and gallb among other things are

required for proper fat metabolism, becomes a poison and noxious to

ones health. So generally speaking limiting something so necessary

for so very many functions of the human being is a poor idea. The

more appropriate approach would be to directly address the faulty

liver/gallb mechanisms and simultaneously make better fat choices.

Limiting fats as a matter of course long term is just going to create

any number of other miserable senarios.

I hope this is of some help.

Sincerely,

Dr. Marasco,BS,DC

Cincinnati,Oh

> There's a widespread opinion that fat is difficult to

> digest and should be limited if liver in not

> functioning well. My mother and my sister have had bad

> livers, and mine wasn't perfect either. So my mother

> was told by doctors to reduce fat intake. Partly

> because of that, we never had bone or meat broths, and

> our overall fat consumption had always been rather

> limited. And my mother and my sister still try to

> limit it because they still believe that fat is hard

> on liver.

>

> Does anyone here know how true that is?

>

> Thanks

>

> Roman

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

>>>However -- I figured out that my own fat digestion problems had to do

with

food problems NOT related to fat, specifically to gluten intolerance, which

tends to affect your liver (and gall bladder and pancreas) by blocking the

output ducts for the digestive enyzmes.

***Heidi, this caught my attention...would you mind explaining how gluten

intolerance blocks output ducts for digestive enzymes? Does this include

bile ducts? I'd really like to know more about this. Could you also direct

me to where I can read more about it?

Thanks!

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

> >From: Quick <jaq@...>

>> >There's a widespread opinion that fat is difficult to

>> >digest and should be limited if liver in not

>> >functioning well. My mother and my sister have had bad

>> >livers, and mine wasn't perfect either. So my mother

>> >was told by doctors to reduce fat intake. Partly

>> >because of that, we never had bone or meat broths,

>>

>>With a refrigerator, broth can be very low fat...just chill it and

>>lift the fat off.

>

>I've seen numerous references to removing the fat from broth, both on this

>list and on the WAPF web site. Why?

Supposedly, the scum that rises to the top of broth contains bad

stuff (just what isn't made clear in NT, but I would figure

pesticides etc.). And of course the fat rises too. I take it off

because I find it more aesthetic. I guess if I were really good, I'd

save the schmalz and cook with it.

--

Quick

www.en.com/users/jaquick

" One of these days someone smarter and younger and more articulate

than I is going to get through to the American people just how really

messed up it has become. And when that happens, the American people are

going to rise up like that football crowd in Cleveland and run both

teams off the field. " --Sen. Zell

[Guest guest]

You can do a web search on " Celiac " and get a lot! It's soooooo complicated

and controversial at this point: the research is still being done and still

coming in. Basically, if you have a certain gene, you will react to certain

protein chunks in gliadin (a protein in wheat/barley gluten). The reaction

causes your immune system to attack the villi in your upper intestine,

which flatten out and don't do their job, and eventually it leads to

inflammation and scarring (which is I think is what blocks the ducts). It

also causes 'leaky gut' syndrome which leads to a mess of

allergies/arthritic problems, vitamin deficencies, calcium deposits. It

causes your T1 cells to stop doing their job for awhile, leading to a

higher risk of cancer. At it's worst, you end up on an IV tube in the

hospital while they try to figure out what is wrong with you, which is when

it is typically diagosed!

The exact connection to the pancreas and bile ducts though I don't

understand: there are some who think the auto-immune reaction that gets

triggered causes the body to actively attack the pancreas, which is why

celiac is associated with type 1 diabetes a lot. But the research is really

new: it is definite though, that celiacs commonly lack pancreatic and

milk-digesting enyzymes, and are very, very prone to gall bladder disease

and cirrosis of the liver.

The thing that is controversial is, what is the 'cutoff' for saying a

person 'has celiac' vs. just reacts to gluten badly (has gluten

intolerance). It's a spectrum, like diabetes, high blood pressure, or

autism, and it can be mild or severe (and gets worse as you get older).

Fully 1/3 of the US population has the gene, and the latest studies show

maybe 1/100 with the full-blown disease (that is, the upper intestine is

definitely damaged), though most of them do not know they have it. It is

THE most commonly diagnosed allergy in Europe though. Some people (me

included) have decided it's not really a disease: wheat is just basically

poison to a large number of people.

When I found out about it, it just blew me away: I would have figured it

was one of those 'fringe' things and dismissed it, but a lot of the

references I was reading were from medical journals. It is very much

unheard of to US doctors except as a rare disease (the IV-end-game version

of it is known). Anyway, THAT is what made me decide to rethink this whole

modern dietary paridigm and read NT: if bread can cause THIS many problems,

who knows what else is problematic?

The best overall research spots I found were:

http://www.aafp.org/afp/980301ap/pruessn.html

(very medically oriented: gives the official best mainstream case: good one

to take to you doctor if you want the blood test)

www.celiac.com

(the 'official' website. has lots of info)

www.finerhealth.com

(Dr. Fine is kind of specializing in celiac research. He's not mainstream,

but his ideas are interesting. He has published quite a few papers on the

subject)

-- Heidi

At 07:50 AM 3/28/2002 -0500, you wrote:

> >>>However -- I figured out that my own fat digestion problems had to do

>with

>food problems NOT related to fat, specifically to gluten intolerance, which

>tends to affect your liver (and gall bladder and pancreas) by blocking the

>output ducts for the digestive enyzmes.

>

>***Heidi, this caught my attention...would you mind explaining how gluten

>intolerance blocks output ducts for digestive enzymes? Does this include

>bile ducts? I'd really like to know more about this. Could you also direct

>me to where I can read more about it?

>

>Thanks!

>

>

>Suze Fisher

>Web Design & Development

><http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/>http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vz\

e3shjg/

>mailto:s.fisher22@...

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

***Heidi, this caught my attention...would you mind explaining how

gluten intolerance blocks output ducts for digestive enzymes? Does this

include bile ducts? I'd really like to know more about this. Could you

also direct me to where I can read more about it?

Try http://celiac.com/similar_possible.html#Gall for the

gallbladder/gluten connection.

~ Carma ~

To be perpetually talking sense runs out the mind, as perpetually

ploughing and taking crops runs out the land. The mind must be manured,

and nonsense is very good for the purpose. ~ Boswell

Carma's Corner: http://www.users.qwest.net/~carmapaden/

[Guest guest]

>> There's a widespread opinion that fat is difficult to

digest and should be limited if liver in not

functioning well. <SNIP> Does anyone here know how true that is? <<

++++++Not true at all. I used *dietary* liver flushes (as opposed to most

of the crazy liver flushes I see posted to several groups) to help people

who had liver problems. A dietary liver flush has lots of fat in it. Not

to mention that my basic therapeutic raw diet contains lots of raw

butter, raw cream, raw coconut cream, and olive oil. Good fats is what

the liver needed to get well.

my two cents...

Bianca