Guest guest Posted October 10, 2000 Report Share Posted October 10, 2000 Hello friends! I want to weigh in (pun intended) on the subject of supplements vs food. Consider me a voice for moderation, I certainly do not mean to be controversial in this issue (although I expect it will be). I recognize that supplements are nutrition substitutes for some of us and keep us thriving when all else fails. (El...keep on keeping on!) For many of us supplements are just that: an adjunct to our regular nutrition, not a substitute but an additional part of our complete nutrition. I use protein supplements when I know that my food consumption is particularly low on any given day, although I do not rely on them on a daily basis. I am getting in at least one protein supplement per day in the several weeks before my marathon run just to help keep me well fueled for the event. But I depend on food first and foremost for my nutritional needs. I believe, however, that reliance entirely on supplements is not in our best interest. Neither is the banishment of carbohydrates from our diets (but that is a can of worms that we need not re-hash today). Yes we need to keep our labs perfect...if supplements help do that then we should go for it from time to time. But we have not had our surgeries to make us so extreme in our eating habits. Those of you with distal surgeries have larger pouches to enable you to eat a more " normal " quantity of food. Normal food is not supplements from a bottle, can or jar. Those of us with more proximal surgeries and smaller pouches can only eat smaller quantities, but even still a well rounded diet of everyday, plain old average food (concentrating on our protein first) will generally do the trick. Now understand I'm not advocating never using supplements...I use them. I'm not suggesting you not taken vitamins and minerals daily...I take mine faithfully. But I am suggesting that we st! rive to reach the place where ou r eating, exercise and micro-nutritional needs become a seemless part of an average (I know, I know, we are waaay above average) existance. I think we focus far too much on those aspects that set us apart... Perhaps over time, as we settle in for the long term we become more comfortable with eating and do not need to rely so heavily on supplements or focus on our differences. Listen, I have times when I just don't care about food or have hunger enough to eat anything. And I get it that distal folks require extreme amounts protein...but we do ourselves and bariatric surgery a dis-service to suggest to folks that our lives revolve around keeping us nutritionally satisfied by consuming supplements rather than food. I'd be interested in hearing some discussion about how folks have dealt with satisfying their nutrional needs through resources that do not rely strictly on supplements. I believe its possible, I do it daily and I am expending a considerable amount of energy running and repairing my running muscles. Food for thought (pun intended) Jane S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2000 Report Share Posted October 11, 2000 Jane and all, I have many thoughts on your message regarding supps, and for some of us with short proximals, the body adapts and is able to absorb an adequate amount of protein and nutrients to maintain function and normal labs. However, some proximals and most medials and all distals, have malabsorption as a desired result of their surgery. For these people (myself included), physiologically, it is IMPOSSIBLE for food to provide adequate protein or nutrients. I can go through the medical side of why this is true as I have in the past, but I don't know that it will serve a purpose - suffice it to say, that some of us (depending of the surgery type) are NOT normal and never will be (quiet !). I am not advocating giving up food - couldn't do it if I wanted to - but for those with malabsorptive surgeries, we need to KNOW how much protein and nutrients are being absorbed. Also, other than the duodenal switch folks who have a larger pouch - most distals and medials have no larger pouch than a proximal - mine is/was 20cc - smaller than many 30cc proximals. Being distal I might absorb 20% of the dietary protein I take in - therefore I would have to eat 300gms of protein to get my 60gm daily requirement- no thanks; 2 protein drinks a day (with guaranteed absorption as they are predigested) and I don't have to think about it. Same with vits. Curiously, it is likely that for your marathon, you will need over 100gm of protein per day in preparation and for several weeks recovery after the event. Even with a proximal, assuming 75-80% absorption, that is alot of protein to get in dietary wise. I commend your athleticism and energy, it is awesome, but I would consider upping your protein supp for several weeks, as it will definitely aid in your run and recovery. Email me privately if you would like more details. Carolyn Re: supps vs food >Hello friends! >I want to weigh in (pun intended) on the subject of supplements vs food. Consider me a voice for moderation, I certainly do not mean to be controversial in this issue (although I expect it will be). > >I recognize that supplements are nutrition substitutes for some of us and keep us thriving when all else fails. (El...keep on keeping on!) For many of us supplements are just that: an adjunct to our regular nutrition, not a substitute but an additional part of our complete nutrition. I use protein supplements when I know that my food consumption is particularly low on any given day, although I do not rely on them on a daily basis. I am getting in at least one protein supplement per day in the several weeks before my marathon run just to help keep me well fueled for the event. But I depend on food first and foremost for my nutritional needs. > >I believe, however, that reliance entirely on supplements is not in our best interest. Neither is the banishment of carbohydrates from our diets (but that is a can of worms that we need not re-hash today). Yes we need to keep our labs perfect...if supplements help do that then we should go for it from time to time. But we have not had our surgeries to make us so extreme in our eating habits. Those of you with distal surgeries have larger pouches to enable you to eat a more " normal " quantity of food. Normal food is not supplements from a bottle, can or jar. Those of us with more proximal surgeries and smaller pouches can only eat smaller quantities, but even still a well rounded diet of everyday, plain old average food (concentrating on our protein first) will generally do the trick. Now understand I'm not advocating never using supplements...I use them. I'm not suggesting you not taken vitamins and minerals daily...I take mine faithfully. But I am suggesting that we st! >rive to reach the place where ou >r eating, exercise and micro-nutritional needs become a seemless part of an average (I know, I know, we are waaay above average) existance. I think we focus far too much on those aspects that set us apart... > >Perhaps over time, as we settle in for the long term we become more comfortable with eating and do not need to rely so heavily on supplements or focus on our differences. Listen, I have times when I just don't care about food or have hunger enough to eat anything. And I get it that distal folks require extreme amounts protein...but we do ourselves and bariatric surgery a dis-service to suggest to folks that our lives revolve around keeping us nutritionally satisfied by consuming supplements rather than food. > >I'd be interested in hearing some discussion about how folks have dealt with satisfying their nutrional needs through resources that do not rely strictly on supplements. I believe its possible, I do it daily and I am expending a considerable amount of energy running and repairing my running muscles. > >Food for thought (pun intended) > >Jane S > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2000 Report Share Posted October 11, 2000 Jane and all, I have many thoughts on your message regarding supps, and for some of us with short proximals, the body adapts and is able to absorb an adequate amount of protein and nutrients to maintain function and normal labs. However, some proximals and most medials and all distals, have malabsorption as a desired result of their surgery. For these people (myself included), physiologically, it is IMPOSSIBLE for food to provide adequate protein or nutrients. I can go through the medical side of why this is true as I have in the past, but I don't know that it will serve a purpose - suffice it to say, that some of us (depending of the surgery type) are NOT normal and never will be (quiet !). I am not advocating giving up food - couldn't do it if I wanted to - but for those with malabsorptive surgeries, we need to KNOW how much protein and nutrients are being absorbed. Also, other than the duodenal switch folks who have a larger pouch - most distals and medials have no larger pouch than a proximal - mine is/was 20cc - smaller than many 30cc proximals. Being distal I might absorb 20% of the dietary protein I take in - therefore I would have to eat 300gms of protein to get my 60gm daily requirement- no thanks; 2 protein drinks a day (with guaranteed absorption as they are predigested) and I don't have to think about it. Same with vits. Curiously, it is likely that for your marathon, you will need over 100gm of protein per day in preparation and for several weeks recovery after the event. Even with a proximal, assuming 75-80% absorption, that is alot of protein to get in dietary wise. I commend your athleticism and energy, it is awesome, but I would consider upping your protein supp for several weeks, as it will definitely aid in your run and recovery. Email me privately if you would like more details. Carolyn Re: supps vs food >Hello friends! >I want to weigh in (pun intended) on the subject of supplements vs food. Consider me a voice for moderation, I certainly do not mean to be controversial in this issue (although I expect it will be). > >I recognize that supplements are nutrition substitutes for some of us and keep us thriving when all else fails. (El...keep on keeping on!) For many of us supplements are just that: an adjunct to our regular nutrition, not a substitute but an additional part of our complete nutrition. I use protein supplements when I know that my food consumption is particularly low on any given day, although I do not rely on them on a daily basis. I am getting in at least one protein supplement per day in the several weeks before my marathon run just to help keep me well fueled for the event. But I depend on food first and foremost for my nutritional needs. > >I believe, however, that reliance entirely on supplements is not in our best interest. Neither is the banishment of carbohydrates from our diets (but that is a can of worms that we need not re-hash today). Yes we need to keep our labs perfect...if supplements help do that then we should go for it from time to time. But we have not had our surgeries to make us so extreme in our eating habits. Those of you with distal surgeries have larger pouches to enable you to eat a more " normal " quantity of food. Normal food is not supplements from a bottle, can or jar. Those of us with more proximal surgeries and smaller pouches can only eat smaller quantities, but even still a well rounded diet of everyday, plain old average food (concentrating on our protein first) will generally do the trick. Now understand I'm not advocating never using supplements...I use them. I'm not suggesting you not taken vitamins and minerals daily...I take mine faithfully. But I am suggesting that we st! >rive to reach the place where ou >r eating, exercise and micro-nutritional needs become a seemless part of an average (I know, I know, we are waaay above average) existance. I think we focus far too much on those aspects that set us apart... > >Perhaps over time, as we settle in for the long term we become more comfortable with eating and do not need to rely so heavily on supplements or focus on our differences. Listen, I have times when I just don't care about food or have hunger enough to eat anything. And I get it that distal folks require extreme amounts protein...but we do ourselves and bariatric surgery a dis-service to suggest to folks that our lives revolve around keeping us nutritionally satisfied by consuming supplements rather than food. > >I'd be interested in hearing some discussion about how folks have dealt with satisfying their nutrional needs through resources that do not rely strictly on supplements. I believe its possible, I do it daily and I am expending a considerable amount of energy running and repairing my running muscles. > >Food for thought (pun intended) > >Jane S > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2000 Report Share Posted October 12, 2000 Dr Carolyn ~ I thank you for your insight on protein/supps/vits issues from a physician's perspective. We have to remember that there are a lot of those lurking who haven't heard this before. Surgeons just don't know and don't like to give speculative information. They wait till labs are screwy and then try to fix 'em. One can go along just fine, hit a major bump in the road and then crash when it may have been prevented by supplementation. Just MHO. Thanks! dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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