Re: Sourdough Bread- Robin M.

[Guest guest]

Bonnie,

I have been following 's advise on the feeding of the starter and she

says if you feed it three times a day that it won't be as sour. I have found

this to be true and usually allow about six hours between feedings. I'm

wondering why you say you must wait at least 12 hours?

C.

----- Original Message -----

From: Bonnie Sue

Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 9:49 PM

Subject: Sourdough Bread- Robin M.

Robin asked these questions a week or more ago, but I have just now been

able to find the time to answer them. Her question is first, then my answer

is a paragraph later.

1) I just bought a Bosch Universal mixer before looking at the video

for the purpose of kneading bread. I find this job a little difficult

and time consuming. Also, they are supposed to be effective for about

8lbs or 4 loaves at a time - and that's about the size batch I would

like to make. The more dough, the harder to knead. But when I

watched the video, she made the kneading look extremely easy and fast

and comments that her method requires little kneading in comparison to

others. I can use the mixer for many other purposes - but really

bought it for bread kneading. I was wondering if I really didn't need

to buy it, or if it still helps you in your breadmaking? I did

consider that it may seem easier in the video than it would be in real

life.

I have had experience with the Bosch Universal, and of all the ways I have

tried, it kneads the bread the best. However, unfortunately, the bread I

have made in it is the kind made with instant yeast, in which you can go

from grain to eating the bread in about 2 hours. I was actually wondering

the other day if I should experiment with kneading the sourdough in the

Bosch. I don't own one, but I have a Magic Mill DLX. It has a stainless

steel bowl, which would give lots of contact between dough and steel, which

is not good for sourdough, I have heard. I thought the Bosch would be

better, because of the plastic bowl, and it only comes in contact with the

steel dough hook.

The kneading does go fast and easy, with Meredith's technique on the video,

but then again, you are kneading only one loaf. I've tried kneading more

than one loaf at a time by hand, and it was too strenuous to me to want to

do that all the time. Lately, I have been trying to make several loaves at

a time, to put some in the freezer (at Dr. Marasco's suggestion) and when I

do, I knead each loaf separately. This does take quite a bit longer than

just sticking a big batch in the Bosch and turning it on for 6 minutes.

This is what made me begin to think about a faster way of kneading more than

one loaf, and the possibility of using a Bosch. If you want to experiment

with this, my suggestion is don't do it until you get the " hang of " the

sourdough, and are familiar with how it rises, how it bakes, etc.

2) Can you give me any suggestions concerning doubling my amount of

starter. For example I wanted to make four loaves every other week -

so if I start with two cups of starter, can I just double it one week

and then double it again the next week - giving me 8 cups - then I

will use 6 cups for the bread and have 2 cups left over the start the

process again. I guess what I need to know is if it matters how often

I feed it and does it matter how big I make it. I think the rule is I

can add as much flour as I have starter?? Are there some rules I

should follow in this area if I'm going to deviate from her listed

amounts. This is where I'm having trouble getting started. Any help

you could give me would be great.

Yes, you never want to feed the starter more flour than the amount of

original starter, but as long as you keep the proportions correct, you can

add any amount you like. You can also feed it as often as 12 hours between

feedings. When my starter has been in the refrigerator more than several

days, I feed it several times in a row (12 or more hours apart) and that

makes it more active. To make a large batch, for example, I may start with

2 cups starter, and I feed it water (forgot the amount) and 2 cups flour.

The next day, I now have about 4 cups starter, so I can double that and feed

it 4 cups flour plus water. In this way, it grows exponentially, very fast.

I have found that feeding it only every 7-10 days, as she suggests, is not

nearly enough feeding to keep it active. When I need to make bread, I make

sure that I've fed it at least 3 days in a row beforehand.

3) Do you use any method for temperature control and if so, what

temps do you use. I know about the insulating cooler method - but she

really just mentions warm and cool spots. How precise have you been

with this?

It has all been an experiment. Everyone differs on their definitions of

" warm " and " cool " also. I read the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book one time to

keep a certain dough at room temperature (65-70 degrees) and I almost

flipped out. If they had not specified a range of temps, I would have kept

it at my house room temperature, which being in Central Texas, and with the

family members all cold-natured, is between 75-80 degrees year-round. 65-70

degrees in a room is absolutely arctic to me. So . . . .

I try to find as warm a spot as I can, since I've found the bread rises

better. I used to put it upstairs, since heat rises in the house, until

recently. Lately, I have discovered that it rises much better for me if I

put the loaves in the oven, which has been heated a little, then turned off.

The oven seal also helps to keep the bread moist, which is important to keep

it from crusting over before you are ready for it to.

Really, I don't think the temperature has to be all that precise. In the

spring, summer, and fall, I will put the bread to rise on the

screened-in-porch, since most days are over 80 degrees, and in the summer,

many days are over 100 degrees. That's a big temperature difference, but

all that will affect is the rising time. It rises faster with warmer

temperatures.

Another thing I discovered is that it needs much more rising time than

Meredith says it does. I usually let mine rise for 2 hours, then punch it

down and shape it, then let it rise up to 8 hours more. This difference

could be because I use spelt now, and not wheat.

4) Do you always use a specific grain for starter and bread - or do

you ever mix any other grains in when making the bread? How about

seeds etc?

I started out using Prairie Gold wheat for the starter and the bread. Once

your starter is in the bowl, you can add other kinds of flour to make the

bread, but I don't recommend adding other flours to the starter when you

feed it. Keep it pure. I did make spelt bread, using the wheat starter,

and it worked fine. Don't use any flours that don't have a high gluten

content, such as rice or barley, except in small amounts along with a

high-gluten flour, because they won't rise well. You can add seeds if you

like, but be careful about the seeds ripping and tearing the dough as you

knead it. I often do her suggestion of rolling the dough in seeds (sesame,

poppy, mustard and cumin) before putting it into french loaf pans.

Because I am trying to stay away from hybrid grains as much as possible, I

left my wheat starter in the refrigerator and started a spelt starter. Now

the bread I make is 100% spelt. It seems to have a few different

characteristics than the wheat starter. I decrease the liquid in the ratio.

It has a different texture than the wheat starter, and is much more smooth

and pourable, even when plenty of flour is added. The spelt starter, I have

found, does not rise as well, so that is why I have begun adding more heat

to the rising.

5) What do you use to grease your pans - and do you use stainless

steel pans or glass or something else?

I use olive oil and lecithin mix, that I stir together and put in the Quick

Mist non-aerosol spray can I bought at -Sonoma. Since I have read

that sourdough reacts to metal, I use Pampered Chef stoneware loaf pans, or

glass loaf pans, since I don't want to take any chances.

6) You mentioned that you let your filtered water sit out to get rid

of chlorine - I just have an inexpensive filter but I think it is

supposed to remove chlorine. Do you do this as an extra precaution -

or is it necessary b/c there can be absolutely no chlorine?

I do this as an extra precaution because I did notice that the bread did

better after I began dechlorinating the water. I think my water filter is

supposed to get rid of chlorine, but it is an inexpensive one too, and I

have my doubts as to its effectiveness.

7) I think you mentioned somewhere on the site that you have a

tortilla and pasta recipe but I couldn't find it - could you help me

find them or post them again?

I do have a tortilla recipe, but not a pasta one yet. The pasta idea was

just that- an idea of something I wanted to experiment with, but have not

done so yet. I will post the tortilla recipe in the next couple of days. I

will warn you, though, that my experiences with sourdough have been all

trial and error, and I am constantly learning. The last time I made a batch

of sourdough tortillas, I just wanted to cry, they turned out so stiff and

sour. But, I have made them before and they were just fine. I am not sure

what I did differently, besides maybe letting them rise longer.

8) Do you do anything special with the grinding of your flour for the

starter - such as coarse grind or anything like that - or do you grind

it exactly as you would when making the bread?

I have a Whisper Mill, and grind everything on finest grind, except popcorn.

So, no, I don't do anything special with the grinding of the grain for

sourdough.

I'm glad to be of help, Robin, but I must say that I'm no expert, and am

still learning about it all, just like you!

Bonnie Sue