Re: Re: My menu and numbers

April 22, 2005

The main problem with the universally-used sliding scale is that it is

wholly based on correcting high BGs AFTER they happen.

OTOH, basing insulin on carbs eaten at each meal works to PREVENT those

high BGs in the first place. However, this involves a lot of trial and

error to determine your own proper carb to insulin ratio and doctors

simply don't have the time or inclination to work with individual

patients to find that correct ratio. That's why it pays to be an

educated and proactive diabetic in order to get good BG results.

And congratulations on taking the bull by the horns, so to speak, Rick!

Vicki

Re: Re: My menu and numbers

>

> At 10:54 PM 4/21/2005, you wrote:

>

>> This is good to know that it could possibly take that much insulin.

>> My

>> doctor never really suggested taking more Lantus after I got up to 25

>> units. She told me to take 8 units of Novolog with meals and I told

>> her

>> I took 20 units once and she looked at me horrified. <it didn't do

>> anything> Do you increase your insulin on your own, or did your doc

>> tell

>> you take that much? I think my doctor is scared to death I will go

>> low

>> or something. And does the Humalog make you hungry? When I take

>> Novolog, I have an uncontrollable appetite. I hate it. Kat

>

> Hi Kat

>

> My doc had me start with a sliding scale on Humalog and 40 units of

> Lantus.

> My 1st lunch meal I used 18 units of Humalog - before lunch 248, two

> hours

> later 226 - that was with 10 carbs or less.

>

> I decided on my own to throw out the sliding scale and try to 'match'

> my

> doses to the # of carbs I was eating. I figured the carbs for each

> meal,

> even looking for 'hidden' carbs. I raised my units by 2 each meal for

> a

> couple of days in a row - no change. So I 'jumped' up to 30 units,

> then 35,

> then 40. Each of these jumps brought me closer. I kept a close watch

> after

> each meal to make sure I didn't go too low. I had also raised my

> Lantus to

> 60 units after about 4 days. After about 2 weeks, things were looking

> much

> better and I faxed my doctor a copy of my numbers. I was all prepared

> to

> have him scold me for 'going it alone' - I was also prepared to get a

> new

> doctor if need be as I was not going to waste months of " try this for

> a

> week or two and get back to me. " Instead of being upset, he was

> extremely

> please with the changes in the numbers. He also agreed to raise my

> monthly

> allotment of strips to 150 instead of 100. Since I don't ever eat

> breakfast, that works for me.

>

> I just uploaded a picture which is a screen shot of my glucose trend.

> It's

> in the pictures section of the diabetes_int web-site.

> I put

> it there so you can see how my aggressive attack on the high bgs

> resulted

> in much better numbers reasonably quickly.

>

> Rick

April 22, 2005

The main problem with the universally-used sliding scale is that it is

wholly based on correcting high BGs AFTER they happen.

OTOH, basing insulin on carbs eaten at each meal works to PREVENT those

high BGs in the first place. However, this involves a lot of trial and

error to determine your own proper carb to insulin ratio and doctors

simply don't have the time or inclination to work with individual

patients to find that correct ratio. That's why it pays to be an

educated and proactive diabetic in order to get good BG results.

And congratulations on taking the bull by the horns, so to speak, Rick!

Vicki

Re: Re: My menu and numbers

>

> At 10:54 PM 4/21/2005, you wrote:

>

>> This is good to know that it could possibly take that much insulin.

>> My

>> doctor never really suggested taking more Lantus after I got up to 25

>> units. She told me to take 8 units of Novolog with meals and I told

>> her

>> I took 20 units once and she looked at me horrified. <it didn't do

>> anything> Do you increase your insulin on your own, or did your doc

>> tell

>> you take that much? I think my doctor is scared to death I will go

>> low

>> or something. And does the Humalog make you hungry? When I take

>> Novolog, I have an uncontrollable appetite. I hate it. Kat

>

> Hi Kat

>

> My doc had me start with a sliding scale on Humalog and 40 units of

> Lantus.

> My 1st lunch meal I used 18 units of Humalog - before lunch 248, two

> hours

> later 226 - that was with 10 carbs or less.

>

> I decided on my own to throw out the sliding scale and try to 'match'

> my

> doses to the # of carbs I was eating. I figured the carbs for each

> meal,

> even looking for 'hidden' carbs. I raised my units by 2 each meal for

> a

> couple of days in a row - no change. So I 'jumped' up to 30 units,

> then 35,

> then 40. Each of these jumps brought me closer. I kept a close watch

> after

> each meal to make sure I didn't go too low. I had also raised my

> Lantus to

> 60 units after about 4 days. After about 2 weeks, things were looking

> much

> better and I faxed my doctor a copy of my numbers. I was all prepared

> to

> have him scold me for 'going it alone' - I was also prepared to get a

> new

> doctor if need be as I was not going to waste months of " try this for

> a

> week or two and get back to me. " Instead of being upset, he was

> extremely

> please with the changes in the numbers. He also agreed to raise my

> monthly

> allotment of strips to 150 instead of 100. Since I don't ever eat

> breakfast, that works for me.

>

> I just uploaded a picture which is a screen shot of my glucose trend.

> It's

> in the pictures section of the diabetes_int web-site.

> I put

> it there so you can see how my aggressive attack on the high bgs

> resulted

> in much better numbers reasonably quickly.

>

> Rick

April 22, 2005

The main problem with the universally-used sliding scale is that it is

wholly based on correcting high BGs AFTER they happen.

OTOH, basing insulin on carbs eaten at each meal works to PREVENT those

high BGs in the first place. However, this involves a lot of trial and

error to determine your own proper carb to insulin ratio and doctors

simply don't have the time or inclination to work with individual

patients to find that correct ratio. That's why it pays to be an

educated and proactive diabetic in order to get good BG results.

And congratulations on taking the bull by the horns, so to speak, Rick!

Vicki

Re: Re: My menu and numbers

>

> At 10:54 PM 4/21/2005, you wrote:

>

>> This is good to know that it could possibly take that much insulin.

>> My

>> doctor never really suggested taking more Lantus after I got up to 25

>> units. She told me to take 8 units of Novolog with meals and I told

>> her

>> I took 20 units once and she looked at me horrified. <it didn't do

>> anything> Do you increase your insulin on your own, or did your doc

>> tell

>> you take that much? I think my doctor is scared to death I will go

>> low

>> or something. And does the Humalog make you hungry? When I take

>> Novolog, I have an uncontrollable appetite. I hate it. Kat

>

> Hi Kat

>

> My doc had me start with a sliding scale on Humalog and 40 units of

> Lantus.

> My 1st lunch meal I used 18 units of Humalog - before lunch 248, two

> hours

> later 226 - that was with 10 carbs or less.

>

> I decided on my own to throw out the sliding scale and try to 'match'

> my

> doses to the # of carbs I was eating. I figured the carbs for each

> meal,

> even looking for 'hidden' carbs. I raised my units by 2 each meal for

> a

> couple of days in a row - no change. So I 'jumped' up to 30 units,

> then 35,

> then 40. Each of these jumps brought me closer. I kept a close watch

> after

> each meal to make sure I didn't go too low. I had also raised my

> Lantus to

> 60 units after about 4 days. After about 2 weeks, things were looking

> much

> better and I faxed my doctor a copy of my numbers. I was all prepared

> to

> have him scold me for 'going it alone' - I was also prepared to get a

> new

> doctor if need be as I was not going to waste months of " try this for

> a

> week or two and get back to me. " Instead of being upset, he was

> extremely

> please with the changes in the numbers. He also agreed to raise my

> monthly

> allotment of strips to 150 instead of 100. Since I don't ever eat

> breakfast, that works for me.

>

> I just uploaded a picture which is a screen shot of my glucose trend.

> It's

> in the pictures section of the diabetes_int web-site.

> I put

> it there so you can see how my aggressive attack on the high bgs

> resulted

> in much better numbers reasonably quickly.

>

> Rick

April 22, 2005

Good for you, Kat -- but as you up the dosage, you need to stay at least

2 days at the same dose - 3 would be even better -- before upping it

again, in order to get accurate results. And be sure to test often and

move up in small increments only.

Vicki

Re: Re: My menu and numbers

>

> This is very interesting to me. My Doc is very conservative with

> meds, when

> I started with Lantus he told me to use 10 units before bed. You can

> guess

> that did nothing at all, so he then said to raise it to 15 units.

> Again,

> no real change. (He also has me on Glucovance 2X a day).

>

> So after reading this list, I realized just how low my Lantus doseage

> was,

> and changed it myself to 15 units in the morning and 25 at night.

> Now we

> are getting somewhere! This gave me the kinds of numbers I want. I

> reported this to the Doc and he said my numbers were too low (75 at

> fasting)

> and wanted me back on 15 in the am and 15 at night. We go right back

> to

> 150-175 kinds of am and pm numbers. So without reporting to him, I

> have

> gone back to my 25 units at night, 15 in the am. My fasting numbers

> for the

> last three days are 101, 103, and 93. Its still less than many of

> you take,

> and I feel it does what I need. So until there is a change, I will

> stay

> there for a while and fight it out with Doc next time I see him.

>

> Jo in Minnesota, where its cooold again!

> Hello Jo in Minnesota....... It's cooold again here in Illinois

> too............. I am really starting to believe the reason I don't

> think insulin works for me is that I am not taking enough. I have

> considered trying it in the am and pm and after reading your post I

> think I really will give it a try. Right now I just got myself back

> on 20 units in the pm. Maybe I will try something low like 5 units in

> the am and see what happens. Kat

>

April 22, 2005

Good for you, Kat -- but as you up the dosage, you need to stay at least

2 days at the same dose - 3 would be even better -- before upping it

again, in order to get accurate results. And be sure to test often and

move up in small increments only.

Vicki

Re: Re: My menu and numbers

>

> This is very interesting to me. My Doc is very conservative with

> meds, when

> I started with Lantus he told me to use 10 units before bed. You can

> guess

> that did nothing at all, so he then said to raise it to 15 units.

> Again,

> no real change. (He also has me on Glucovance 2X a day).

>

> So after reading this list, I realized just how low my Lantus doseage

> was,

> and changed it myself to 15 units in the morning and 25 at night.

> Now we

> are getting somewhere! This gave me the kinds of numbers I want. I

> reported this to the Doc and he said my numbers were too low (75 at

> fasting)

> and wanted me back on 15 in the am and 15 at night. We go right back

> to

> 150-175 kinds of am and pm numbers. So without reporting to him, I

> have

> gone back to my 25 units at night, 15 in the am. My fasting numbers

> for the

> last three days are 101, 103, and 93. Its still less than many of

> you take,

> and I feel it does what I need. So until there is a change, I will

> stay

> there for a while and fight it out with Doc next time I see him.

>

> Jo in Minnesota, where its cooold again!

> Hello Jo in Minnesota....... It's cooold again here in Illinois

> too............. I am really starting to believe the reason I don't

> think insulin works for me is that I am not taking enough. I have

> considered trying it in the am and pm and after reading your post I

> think I really will give it a try. Right now I just got myself back

> on 20 units in the pm. Maybe I will try something low like 5 units in

> the am and see what happens. Kat

>

April 22, 2005

Good for you, Kat -- but as you up the dosage, you need to stay at least

2 days at the same dose - 3 would be even better -- before upping it

again, in order to get accurate results. And be sure to test often and

move up in small increments only.

Vicki

Re: Re: My menu and numbers

>

> This is very interesting to me. My Doc is very conservative with

> meds, when

> I started with Lantus he told me to use 10 units before bed. You can

> guess

> that did nothing at all, so he then said to raise it to 15 units.

> Again,

> no real change. (He also has me on Glucovance 2X a day).

>

> So after reading this list, I realized just how low my Lantus doseage

> was,

> and changed it myself to 15 units in the morning and 25 at night.

> Now we

> are getting somewhere! This gave me the kinds of numbers I want. I

> reported this to the Doc and he said my numbers were too low (75 at

> fasting)

> and wanted me back on 15 in the am and 15 at night. We go right back

> to

> 150-175 kinds of am and pm numbers. So without reporting to him, I

> have

> gone back to my 25 units at night, 15 in the am. My fasting numbers

> for the

> last three days are 101, 103, and 93. Its still less than many of

> you take,

> and I feel it does what I need. So until there is a change, I will

> stay

> there for a while and fight it out with Doc next time I see him.

>

> Jo in Minnesota, where its cooold again!

> Hello Jo in Minnesota....... It's cooold again here in Illinois

> too............. I am really starting to believe the reason I don't

> think insulin works for me is that I am not taking enough. I have

> considered trying it in the am and pm and after reading your post I

> think I really will give it a try. Right now I just got myself back

> on 20 units in the pm. Maybe I will try something low like 5 units in

> the am and see what happens. Kat

>

April 22, 2005

> >I split my metformin into two doses of 1000 mg each, morning and

bedtime.

Speaking of metformin: Vermont has joined a program that lets people buy

drugs from Canada and Europe. In England, metformin costs 15 cents a pill.

Gretchen

April 22, 2005

> >I split my metformin into two doses of 1000 mg each, morning and

bedtime.

Speaking of metformin: Vermont has joined a program that lets people buy

drugs from Canada and Europe. In England, metformin costs 15 cents a pill.

Gretchen

April 22, 2005

> >I split my metformin into two doses of 1000 mg each, morning and

bedtime.

Speaking of metformin: Vermont has joined a program that lets people buy

drugs from Canada and Europe. In England, metformin costs 15 cents a pill.

Gretchen

April 22, 2005

At 07:59 AM 4/22/05, DuNord wrote:

>This is very interesting to me. My Doc is very conservative with meds

If there's one thing I've learned here it's that if the list folks and my

doctor disagree, I go with the list. Happily, my nurse-practitioner is

quite open to my suggestions (based on what I've learned here) and, having

met the Dr. for the first time just a month ago, I'm happy to say that his

comment about me following list advice was: " Considering your numbers (last

A1C was 5.8) I can't complain " .

Speaking of which, I just got more bloodwork done today and am anxious to

see if my A1C has gone down. I hope so. If so, you'll hear me toodling my

own horn next week. 8-)

>Jo in Minnesota, where its cooold again!

Here, too! It was 82 two days ago and we're due some rain/snow mix this

weekend. Brrrrr.

-=sky=-

Type 2 dx'd 9/04/05. Last A1C: 5.8

Low Carb, Metaformin XR (2000mg).

Other Meds: HTZ, Lipitor, Cozaar,

Synthroid, Toprol.

Supplements: B12, CoQ10, Omega 3,

L-Arginine, biotin, folic acid & others.

April 22, 2005

At 09:30 AM 4/22/05, staceypmartin@... wrote:

>Rick, are you taking any other diabetes meds? Some have had success with

>taking the metformin and/or actos/avandia at night rather than in the

>morning or

>with dinner.

I finally followed what Cappie had been saying all along and started taking

my 2000mg of metformin XR when I went to bed instead of at dinner. That

moved it from about 8 p.m. to around midnight. Immediately my morning FBG

went from the 120's, where it seemed stuck, to 106. When I check at bedtime

(I tend to snack late, so can't always do that) it's been the same...106

area. In the afternoons, which seems to be my lowest time of day, It'll get

into the 90's. I suppose if I were more careful with carbs or added

*exercise* (hissssss) I could get it down into the below-100 range all of

the time.

I'm not yet taking insulin though I gather that it will eventually be

necessary as time passes and my beta cells get worse. Is this so?

-=sky=-

Type 2 dx'd 9/04/05. Last A1C: 5.8

Low Carb, Metaformin XR (2000mg).

Other Meds: HTZ, Lipitor, Cozaar,

Synthroid, Toprol.

Supplements: B12, CoQ10, Omega 3,

L-Arginine, biotin, folic acid & others.

Weight: started at 234. Presently 180

April 22, 2005

They are both fast acting insulins but Novolog starts faster and lasts

longer.

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:48:03 -0500 " Kathy "

writes:

>

> >Kat, you do not have to take your lantus at night, why not try it

> in the

> morning, or even mid-afternoon?

> This is an excellent idea. I will start this tomorrow.

>

> >Novalog did not work for me; humalog does.

>

> I thought these were pretty close to the same thing? Both

> fast-acting insulins? I will ask my doc if she has a sample next

> time. I am tired of buying drugs that don't work.

> Thanks. Kat

>

April 22, 2005

They are both fast acting insulins but Novolog starts faster and lasts

longer.

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:48:03 -0500 " Kathy "

writes:

>

> >Kat, you do not have to take your lantus at night, why not try it

> in the

> morning, or even mid-afternoon?

> This is an excellent idea. I will start this tomorrow.

>

> >Novalog did not work for me; humalog does.

>

> I thought these were pretty close to the same thing? Both

> fast-acting insulins? I will ask my doc if she has a sample next

> time. I am tired of buying drugs that don't work.

> Thanks. Kat

>

April 22, 2005

They are both fast acting insulins but Novolog starts faster and lasts

longer.

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:48:03 -0500 " Kathy "

writes:

>

> >Kat, you do not have to take your lantus at night, why not try it

> in the

> morning, or even mid-afternoon?

> This is an excellent idea. I will start this tomorrow.

>

> >Novalog did not work for me; humalog does.

>

> I thought these were pretty close to the same thing? Both

> fast-acting insulins? I will ask my doc if she has a sample next

> time. I am tired of buying drugs that don't work.

> Thanks. Kat

>

April 22, 2005

In a message dated 4/22/05 4:00:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whimsy2@...

writes:

>

>The only reason I could think of for a type 2 to take another med

>besides insulin -- and that would only apply to metformin - is to reduce

>insulin resistance.

>>>>>>>

Metformin is used to lower the production of glucose from the liver. Actos

and Avandia are the meds that lower insulin resistance. The different things

they do is why they are often used together.

Rick - I too read about more edema with avandia and insulin, but my edema

hasn't changed either on avandia or off, on insuiln or off, on avandia and

insulin or off. Go figure.

I never had edema problems prior to about last February. Never. I always

had bony ankles, even on this very fat body. I hate my swollen ankles even

though the swelling isn't as bad as some I've seen.

Stacey

April 22, 2005

In a message dated 4/22/05 4:00:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whimsy2@...

writes:

>

>The only reason I could think of for a type 2 to take another med

>besides insulin -- and that would only apply to metformin - is to reduce

>insulin resistance.

>>>>>>>

Metformin is used to lower the production of glucose from the liver. Actos

and Avandia are the meds that lower insulin resistance. The different things

they do is why they are often used together.

Rick - I too read about more edema with avandia and insulin, but my edema

hasn't changed either on avandia or off, on insuiln or off, on avandia and

insulin or off. Go figure.

I never had edema problems prior to about last February. Never. I always

had bony ankles, even on this very fat body. I hate my swollen ankles even

though the swelling isn't as bad as some I've seen.

Stacey

April 22, 2005

In a message dated 4/22/05 4:00:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whimsy2@...

writes:

>

>The only reason I could think of for a type 2 to take another med

>besides insulin -- and that would only apply to metformin - is to reduce

>insulin resistance.

>>>>>>>

Metformin is used to lower the production of glucose from the liver. Actos

and Avandia are the meds that lower insulin resistance. The different things

they do is why they are often used together.

Rick - I too read about more edema with avandia and insulin, but my edema

hasn't changed either on avandia or off, on insuiln or off, on avandia and

insulin or off. Go figure.

I never had edema problems prior to about last February. Never. I always

had bony ankles, even on this very fat body. I hate my swollen ankles even

though the swelling isn't as bad as some I've seen.

Stacey

April 22, 2005

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:53:50 -0700 " whimsy2 " writes:

>

> No, I think it's sort of in a " class by itself. "

I am beginning to sound like a broken record but it is not in a class by

itself and I don't know what sort of in a class by itself means.

It is by Aventis' definition an improved NPH glargine insulin, (rDNA

glargine) synthetic instead of human insulin.

> It's a longer-acting insulin. When used properly, its action is

> very smooth - practically flat. This involves overlapping doses, which

> is why it is best taken at 12-hour intervals.

Vicki, this does not involve overlapping doses like UL is notorious for

because in type IIs the more Lantus you use, the shorter the duration.

Lantus does have a peak but nothing like the NPH peak.

> Re: Re: My menu and numbers

>

> >

> > >If you give the Lantus a fair try and it still seems to be

> keeping

> > you

> > awake, you might consider trying Ultralente as your basal. Very

> few

> > doctors ever prescribe this -- it actually doesn't even need a

> > prescription since it's an old insulin, and it's a lot cheaper

> than

> > Lantus. It has a reputation as being unpredictable but IMHO, this

> is

> > because most doctors don't understand how to use it to best

> > advantage,

> > i.e. twice a day, 12 hours apart. Also, it takes some

> experimentation

> > to

> > get the dosing correct. Very often the a.m. dose is half the p.m.

>

> > dose.

> > I get excellent basal control with it, as do quite a few others

> here.

> > Vicki

> > I'm not familiar with Ultralente. Is that like Humulin N?

> >

> > Kat

April 22, 2005

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:53:50 -0700 " whimsy2 " writes:

>

> No, I think it's sort of in a " class by itself. "

I am beginning to sound like a broken record but it is not in a class by

itself and I don't know what sort of in a class by itself means.

It is by Aventis' definition an improved NPH glargine insulin, (rDNA

glargine) synthetic instead of human insulin.

> It's a longer-acting insulin. When used properly, its action is

> very smooth - practically flat. This involves overlapping doses, which

> is why it is best taken at 12-hour intervals.

Vicki, this does not involve overlapping doses like UL is notorious for

because in type IIs the more Lantus you use, the shorter the duration.

Lantus does have a peak but nothing like the NPH peak.

> Re: Re: My menu and numbers

>

> >

> > >If you give the Lantus a fair try and it still seems to be

> keeping

> > you

> > awake, you might consider trying Ultralente as your basal. Very

> few

> > doctors ever prescribe this -- it actually doesn't even need a

> > prescription since it's an old insulin, and it's a lot cheaper

> than

> > Lantus. It has a reputation as being unpredictable but IMHO, this

> is

> > because most doctors don't understand how to use it to best

> > advantage,

> > i.e. twice a day, 12 hours apart. Also, it takes some

> experimentation

> > to

> > get the dosing correct. Very often the a.m. dose is half the p.m.

>

> > dose.

> > I get excellent basal control with it, as do quite a few others

> here.

> > Vicki

> > I'm not familiar with Ultralente. Is that like Humulin N?

> >

> > Kat

April 22, 2005

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:53:50 -0700 " whimsy2 " writes:

>

> No, I think it's sort of in a " class by itself. "

I am beginning to sound like a broken record but it is not in a class by

itself and I don't know what sort of in a class by itself means.

It is by Aventis' definition an improved NPH glargine insulin, (rDNA

glargine) synthetic instead of human insulin.

> It's a longer-acting insulin. When used properly, its action is

> very smooth - practically flat. This involves overlapping doses, which

> is why it is best taken at 12-hour intervals.

Vicki, this does not involve overlapping doses like UL is notorious for

because in type IIs the more Lantus you use, the shorter the duration.

Lantus does have a peak but nothing like the NPH peak.

> Re: Re: My menu and numbers

>

> >

> > >If you give the Lantus a fair try and it still seems to be

> keeping

> > you

> > awake, you might consider trying Ultralente as your basal. Very

> few

> > doctors ever prescribe this -- it actually doesn't even need a

> > prescription since it's an old insulin, and it's a lot cheaper

> than

> > Lantus. It has a reputation as being unpredictable but IMHO, this

> is

> > because most doctors don't understand how to use it to best

> > advantage,

> > i.e. twice a day, 12 hours apart. Also, it takes some

> experimentation

> > to

> > get the dosing correct. Very often the a.m. dose is half the p.m.

>

> > dose.

> > I get excellent basal control with it, as do quite a few others

> here.

> > Vicki

> > I'm not familiar with Ultralente. Is that like Humulin N?

> >

> > Kat

April 22, 2005

At 08:30 AM 4/22/2005, you wrote:

>Rick, are you taking any other diabetes meds? Some have had success with

>taking the metformin and/or actos/avandia at night rather than in the

>morning or

>with dinner.

>

>I split my metformin into two doses of 1000 mg each, morning and bedtime. I

>can't say I've noticed any effect whatsover with changing timing, but YMMV.

>

>Stacey

Hi Stacey,

Just insulin at this point. Before I went on insulin the 1st time, several

years ago, my doc tried Metformin and both Avandia and actos. I maxed out

on Metformin and it did not make any apparent difference. Actos at 1st,

then Avandia later made small changes, very small changes. At that point,

my doc suggested insulin. Having heard the good testimony here, I said yes

immediately. He put me on Lantus and Humalog. At that time, he kept me on

Avandia also. Later I read that taking Avandia while using insulin often

causes edema in people. I have always had some since before diagnosis, but

it did get a lot worse using Avandia and insulin at the same time.

This time around, I am using insulin alone. My doc suggested Metformin the

other day, as a way to be able to reduce the amount of insulin I take.

Having had the results I did before, I declined. I really don't mind taking

more units since it is making a huge difference. If I decide to try

something additional later, I may go ahead and try Avandia or Actos again.

If I do, I'll have to decide if the reduction in insulin is worth the

additional edema. (

Rick

April 22, 2005