Another discussion question :)

[Guest guest]

OK, all! I have another thing I've been pondering lately. Many, if not

all, NT methods and recommendations are based on the premise that primitive

peoples with great health used these methods and therefore they must be

better. However, many of the methods developed in times past were out of

necessity rather than true need. An example that pops into my head is

sourdough bread, I mean, people couldn't run down to the store and buy 3

packets of yeast to make bread, so they had to keep their yeast alive in a

starter. Another example is fermented milk products - without

refrigeration, the only unfermented milk was that straight from the cow or

goat. Anything else was fermented by the storage at higher temps - I'm

talking above 35-40 degrees farenheit. Meat was either eaten fresh killed

or dried/packed in salt - not because it was more healthy but because it

would rot if you didn't - I guess in a way it *was* more healthy than rotted

beef. Anyway, I've been thinking a lot about this and wondering how we

distinquish between methods from the past that were from expedience and

methods from today that are due to living in a more " convenient " culture -

dry yeast, refrigeration, immediate transportation, etc.

Thoughts? ine

[Guest guest]

Meat was either eaten fresh killed or dried/packed in salt - not because it was

more healthy but because it would rot if you didn't

Not necesarily! My grandmother told me they would hang their meat in the

basement until they finished it off. It would have mold on it, but this they

would wash off and eat it anyway. She raised 9 children and no one in the family

got food poisoning.

Grace,

a Augustine

I wish you enough sun to keep your attitude bright.

I wish you enough rain to appreciate the sun more.

I wish you enough happiness to keep your spirit alive.

I wish you enough pain so that the smallest joys in life appear much bigger.

I wish you enough gain to satisfy your wanting.

I wish you enough loss to appreciate all that you possess.

I wish you enough ''Hello's " to get you through the final goodbye.

--anonymous

----- Original Message -----

From: Food From Afar

Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 3:44 PM

Subject: Another discussion question

OK, all! I have another thing I've been pondering lately. Many, if not

all, NT methods and recommendations are based on the premise that primitive

peoples with great health used these methods and therefore they must be

better. However, many of the methods developed in times past were out of

necessity rather than true need. An example that pops into my head is

sourdough bread, I mean, people couldn't run down to the store and buy 3

packets of yeast to make bread, so they had to keep their yeast alive in a

starter. Another example is fermented milk products - without

refrigeration, the only unfermented milk was that straight from the cow or

goat. Anything else was fermented by the storage at higher temps - I'm

talking above 35-40 degrees farenheit. Meat was either eaten fresh killed

or dried/packed in salt - not because it was more healthy but because it

would rot if you didn't - I guess in a way it *was* more healthy than rotted

beef. Anyway, I've been thinking a lot about this and wondering how we

distinquish between methods from the past that were from expedience and

methods from today that are due to living in a more " convenient " culture -

dry yeast, refrigeration, immediate transportation, etc.

Thoughts? ine

[Guest guest]

>>hang their meat in the basement until they finished it off. It would have

mold on it, but this they would wash off and eat it anyway.

Eeew. We live in a pampered society. I can't imagine just hanging a

side of beef and eating it after washing mold off. I imagine the basement

was more like a root cellar and cooler in temperature? I bet they had a lot

halethier immune systems than we do.

ine

[Guest guest]

--- In @y..., " Food From Afar " <foodfromafar@c...>

wrote:

> >>hang their meat in the basement until they finished it off. It

would have

> mold on it, but this they would wash off and eat it anyway.

>

> Eeew. We live in a pampered society. I can't imagine just

hanging a

> side of beef and eating it after washing mold off. I imagine the

basement

> was more like a root cellar and cooler in temperature? I bet they

had a lot

> halethier immune systems than we do.

>

> ine

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>My mother told me her parents hung meat in the

basement(cave) too. However I think they cut off the moldy part and

ate the next layer, so to speak. They hatched chickens each year in

the cave also. Dennis

[Guest guest]

Think of a country ham, same principal. For country hams though the older they

are the more expensive.

Its actually a kind of curing.

Some tourist bought one for nearly $100 from a friend of mine in Tennessee and

when they got home they threw it out when they saw the mold :-)

----- Original Message -----

From: Food From Afar

Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 7:03 PM

Subject: RE: Another discussion question

>>hang their meat in the basement until they finished it off. It would have

mold on it, but this they would wash off and eat it anyway.

Eeew. We live in a pampered society. I can't imagine just hanging a

side of beef and eating it after washing mold off. I imagine the basement

was more like a root cellar and cooler in temperature? I bet they had a lot

halethier immune systems than we do.

ine

[Guest guest]

***OK, all! I have another thing I've been pondering lately. Many, if not

all, NT methods and recommendations are based on the premise that primitive

peoples with great health used these methods and therefore they must be

better. However, many of the methods developed in times past were out of

necessity rather than true need. An example that pops into my head is

sourdough bread, I mean, people couldn't run down to the store and buy 3

packets of yeast to make bread, so they had to keep their yeast alive in a

starter.***

The problem with this example is that research has shown that the natural yeasts

in sourdough bread are MUCH better for you than the yeast in baker's yeast. To

quote a few parts from an article by Jacques de Langre:

" The nutritional and better absorption/assimilation of whole grain bread made

with natural starter (sourdough) leavener instead of commercial yeast are

numerous and of great importance to the health-seeker. "

" Much of the popularity of whole grain bread is due to its roughage and its

power to quickly scour the colon. When the whole grain bread is of the yeasted

variety, most of this roughage -being undigested by fermentation- is still in

its abrasive state and stimulates elimination by mechanical scouring action.

The very abrasiveness which has temporarily relieved the problem soon creates

another one: inflamation of the colon. True starter leavened bread owes its

permanent regulating action to the biological action of its ferments that alone

possess the power to regenerate the intestinal flora. These same ferments also

restore the peristatic action and the flexibility of the colon. While this cure

is not as spetacular as the non-predigested high-roughage diet, it has a much

more lasting and beneficial biological quality. "

" Question:

Why does Naturally Leavened Bread appear not to contain any bran particles and

yet retains a dark brown color within the inside crumb as well as the crust?

Answer:

The micro-organisms of the natural leaven have in effect digested the bran

flakes to such a degree that they totally disappear. All the nutrients of the

bran coats have been retained, however, and this accounts for the dark coloring

inside the loaf. This color is the evidence of the use of natural leaven: that

of creating a physiochemical tranformation of the elements within the dough, in

order to obtain a predigestation of the nutrients. This results in a total

assimilation of these nutrients by the human organism. "

And some more quotes from an article written by Lynn Gordon of the French Meadow

Bakery:

" There are many good qualities of unleavened bread, but there is a big catch-22

factor. Wheat, the primal grain, contain phytic acid or phytin- a natural

ingredient that is associated with poor digestion, anemia, and nervous

disorders disorders to name a few. The natural group of leavening microbes

(microorganisms in the air) in naturally leavened/yeast-free breads eliminate

100% of the phytin; breads baked with bakers yeast contain 90% of the harmful

acid.

Unleavened bread leaves even more phytin on hand for the unsuspecting eater.

Natural leavening is a multi-faceted phenomenon. When the multiple forms of

airborne microbial life contact the warm, moist environment of kneaded dough,

processes of fermentation are initiated.

Complex carbohydrate molecules are broken down into simple sugars. When these

complex carbohydrates are broken down they become very digestible and can be

easily assimilated and properly eliminated by the body.

The yeast-free variety of bread is also more nutritious. The long proofing time

breaks down the bran of the grain, releasing valuable minerals which are

dissolved in the rich dough, hence producing a healthful and tasty bread.

150 years ago, microbiological science isolated and cultured one particular

yeast, the special Saccharamyces cerevisae, commonly known as bakers yeast. It

was discovered that this tiny character caused a rapid and uniform raising of

the dough, which was therefore much more predictable and controllable than the

natural leaven method. This bacteria stimulated unnatural growth. The new

cultured yeast made it possible to to raise a new loaf in 1 hour compared to

the 24 hour process the naturally leavened yeast-fee bread required. Little did

they know that they were causing an unnatural imbalance in the intestinal flora

of all who consumed their daily bread. "

I'm all for convenience, but not if it comes with forsaking nutrition, which it

so often seems to do. If you look at many native cultures, these people were not

stupid. There are many things they did that they could have skipped in the

interest of time and convenience (it would have been a lot shorter timewise to

just grind many grains and use them that way, but they instead took many days to

ferment them in many cases), but they didn't. I am convinced that it is because

they knew that the methods that took more time were also more nutritious

I just really can't get behind the notion that so many people seem to espouse

(not necessarily here, but in the world in general) that all of civilization

before WE, the great learned, came along, were complete idiots who were too

stupid to figure out anything, and we are the only ones smart enough to have

brought all of this technology that makes life so much better. Maybe, just

maybe, these ancient peoples knew a whole lot more than we give them credit for.

rochester@...

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Click here for the best diet and nutrition information you will ever find!

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" I dropped the idea that I was an expert, whose job it was to fill

the little heads with my expertise, and began to explore how I could

remove those obstacles that prevented the inherent genius of children

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~~ Gatto ~~

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[Guest guest]

At 11:26 PM 4/9/02 +0000, you wrote:

>--- In @y..., " Food From Afar " <foodfromafar@c...>

>wrote:

>> >>hang their meat in the basement until they finished it off. It

>would have

>> mold on it, but this they would wash off and eat it anyway.

>>

>> Eeew.   We live in a pampered society.  I can't imagine just

>hanging a

>> side of beef and eating it after washing mold off.  I imagine the

>basement

>> was more like a root cellar and cooler in temperature?  I bet they

>had a lot

>> halethier immune systems than we do.

>>

>> ine

>

>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>My mother told me her parents hung meat in the

>basement(cave) too.  However I think they cut off the moldy part and

>ate the next layer, so to speak. They hatched chickens each year in

>the cave also.  Dennis

>

This is an old thread but Traditional Foods are your Best Medicine's author

references WAP as finding the Inuit doing this after finding their sled dogs

got longer energy from this predigested meat. The mold tenderizes and aids

digestion. I'm sure temperature is very important to get the right growth and

if I understand correctly this was how meat was preserved until the French

method of potting in lard became popular.

Wanita