Re: Another TN Milk Update

[Guest guest]

ouch!

....remember what your true goal is when you start a relationship with another.

If you want to air your ire thats one thing. If you want concessions, that's

another.

If you are out to eliminate legal hassles to raw milk in TN you might want to

appear harmless and non confrontational and amiable and rational (not a fanatic

or rabble rouser). Its a proud state with much great history in technology and

modern ideas. Its also a tough state to get on the bad side of. Perhaps you

could entice one of the Ag colleges to help you present your case...would give

you much more credibility.

How far are you from Murphreesboro and the University there?

Also check out the folks at The Farm in Summersfield.

A long standing " commune " thats found a way to co exist with the state.

Also in your camp can be the Menonite compounds in the south of the State...one

would think that they have " natural " productions on their farms.

just ideas :-)

me, I'm a hot head, coup-starting revolutionary (smile)

bob

SLF

[Guest guest]

> Today I got a call from the lawyer at the TN Department of

Agriculture. She

> has promised to send me the law that prohibits us from selling or

giving away

> dairy products. She has granted us permission to do our

demonstrations,

> nothing was mentioned about our workshops, I think she's considering

the

> workshop a demonstration.

>

> I told her that I really doubt the State of TN has the right to

regulate gift

> giving. She told me that only the family is allowed to eat the dairy

products

> I make. I told her I had no husband, no parents, no children and

asked where

> the cut off is, cousin? aunt? second cousin? She changed her

statement to

> household. I then asked her if the State of TN allowed me to serve a

ham and

> cheese sandwich to a neighbor. She said I'd be liable. I said that

we grew

> most all our own food, baked our own bread, etc. Did she mean that I

would

> have to go to Stop and Shop to buy food to serve to guests. Was it

OK to

> serve salad from the garden? Animals we've raised and butchered

ourselves?

> She had no answer, well...maybe I didn't give her a chance to

answer. <G>

>

> I will patiently wait for the written law to arrive.

>

> I did ask about penalties. She said the first time we are caught

giving away

> our dairy products we would be served a court order to stop and

perhaps a

> fine.

>

> She thinks that raw milk is a potential problem and shouldn't be

consumed. I

> told her that I would consider the conditions in large dairy farms

to be more

> of a hazzard than anything we could come up with. I also, once

again, pointed

> out that many States in the USA allow the sale of raw milk. I told

her I was

> planning on working towards legalization of raw milk sales from

small farms

> in TN. I think I just fired the first shot. <G>

>

> Just thought you'd like to know.

>

> Belinda

> LaBelle Acres

> www.labelleacres.com

>

>

>

>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Belinda, It always amazes me people like dead

bugs,worm carcasses, dead microorganisms,rodent droppings,insect

frags,anti-freeze,acid, solvents,anti-oxidants, etc better than food.

Because people tell me quite often, " I don't want to know what is in

my food. " The things in the first sentence are allowed in foods by

USDA and Department of Agriculture so food is processed to contain

them. I don't think you want to mention this to USDA or Dept of Ag

unless you see a real good reason. They get mad when these things are

mentioned. And by the way many are there due to " food safety " . Best

regards, Dennis

[Guest guest]

>From: " dkemnitz2000 " <dkemnitz2000@...>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Belinda, It always amazes me people like dead

>bugs,worm carcasses, dead microorganisms,rodent droppings,insect

>frags,anti-freeze,acid, solvents,anti-oxidants, etc better than food.

Although some of these things may sound unappetizing, they're all perfectly

edible and in some cases even healthful. It's not that people prefer them to

what is more traditionally considered food--it's that they don't mind having

trace amounts of them in their food.

Specifically...

Dead bugs, worm carcasses, and insect fragments: If I'm not mistaken, the

WAPF web site has an article which speaks favorably of eating bugs.

Dead microorganisms: All food carries microorganisms. Most would rather have

them dead than alive.

Anti-freeze: An anti-freeze is just something which lowers the freezing

point of a liquid. Plain table salt does this.

Acid: Doesn't lacto-fermentation increase the amount of acid in foods?

Solvents: Like water? Or were you thinking of something more along the lines

of the dreaded dihydrogen monoxide?

Anti-oxidants: Vitamins C and E, for example.

Berg

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

[Guest guest]

> >From: " dkemnitz2000 " <dkemnitz2000@y...>

>

> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Belinda, It always amazes me people like dead

> >bugs,worm carcasses, dead microorganisms,rodent droppings,insect

> >frags,anti-freeze,acid, solvents,anti-oxidants, etc better than

food.

>

> Although some of these things may sound unappetizing, they're all

perfectly

> edible and in some cases even healthful. It's not that people prefer

them to

> what is more traditionally considered food--it's that they don't

mind having

> trace amounts of them in their food.

>

> Specifically...

>

> Dead bugs, worm carcasses, and insect fragments: If I'm not

mistaken, the

> WAPF web site has an article which speaks favorably of eating bugs.

>

> Dead microorganisms: All food carries microorganisms. Most would

rather have

> them dead than alive.

>

> Anti-freeze: An anti-freeze is just something which lowers the

freezing

> point of a liquid. Plain table salt does this.

>

> Acid: Doesn't lacto-fermentation increase the amount of acid in

foods?

>

> Solvents: Like water? Or were you thinking of something more along

the lines

> of the dreaded dihydrogen monoxide?

>

> Anti-oxidants: Vitamins C and E, for example.

>

> Berg

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

Solvents like hexane and antioxidants like BHT.Dennis

http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

[Guest guest]

> > >From: " dkemnitz2000 " <dkemnitz2000@y...>

> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>snipped>>>>>>>>>>

> > Dead microorganisms: All food carries microorganisms. Most would

> rather have

> > them dead than alive.

> > Ans.

>>>>>>>>.......Grade A milk can have up to 100,000 microbes per

milliliter. This milk can then be pasteurized and further processed.

The milk the California producers are selling raw can only have

10,000 microbes per milliliter. The raw milk has a lot less bugs, not

because it's raw of course, but because of better management,etc. You

gotta remember those(live) bugs are fermenting our nutrients in some

cases and in some cases making nutrients, depending on the

process. Dennis

> > Acid: Doesn't lacto-fermentation increase the amount of acid in

> foods?

> >

Ans.

>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, lactic acid. However it's not a strong acid like

hydrochloric, sulfuric or nitric. And in commercial cheese production

when a vat of milk is dead(starter doesn't acidify) lactic acid is

manually added making really lousy cheese curd which has to go into

pasteurized process cheese in small amounts so it's not

rejected. And usually the vat's dead due to anti-biotics in that

milk so those anti-biotics are going right down the food chain to the

processed cheese. Dennis

> > Solvents: Like water? Or were you thinking of something more along

> the lines

> > of the dreaded dihydrogen monoxide?

Ans.

True water is a great solvent but added water is not good (allowed

supposedly) in milk.I'm not familiar with dihydrogen monoxide.Dennis

> >

> > Anti-oxidants: Vitamins C and E, for example.

> >

> >>>snipped>>>>>

Anns.

Anti-oxidants like BHA and BHT. Dennis

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

>

>

>

> Solvents like hexane and antioxidants like BHT.Dennis

> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

[Guest guest]

Very well said! Great answers! I really admire people who can " think on their

feet " !

Teshuah

----- Original Message -----

From: dkemnitz2000

Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 7:44 PM

Subject: Re: Another TN Milk Update

> Today I got a call from the lawyer at the TN Department of

Agriculture. She

> has promised to send me the law that prohibits us from selling or

giving away

> dairy products. She has granted us permission to do our

demonstrations,

> nothing was mentioned about our workshops, I think she's considering

the

> workshop a demonstration.

>

> I told her that I really doubt the State of TN has the right to

regulate gift

> giving. She told me that only the family is allowed to eat the dairy

products

> I make. I told her I had no husband, no parents, no children and

asked where

> the cut off is, cousin? aunt? second cousin? She changed her

statement to

> household. I then asked her if the State of TN allowed me to serve a

ham and

> cheese sandwich to a neighbor. She said I'd be liable. I said that

we grew

> most all our own food, baked our own bread, etc. Did she mean that I

would

> have to go to Stop and Shop to buy food to serve to guests. Was it

OK to

> serve salad from the garden? Animals we've raised and butchered

ourselves?

> She had no answer, well...maybe I didn't give her a chance to

answer. <G>

>

> I will patiently wait for the written law to arrive.

>

> I did ask about penalties. She said the first time we are caught

giving away

> our dairy products we would be served a court order to stop and

perhaps a

> fine.

>

> She thinks that raw milk is a potential problem and shouldn't be

consumed. I

> told her that I would consider the conditions in large dairy farms

to be more

> of a hazzard than anything we could come up with. I also, once

again, pointed

> out that many States in the USA allow the sale of raw milk. I told

her I was

> planning on working towards legalization of raw milk sales from

small farms

> in TN. I think I just fired the first shot. <G>

>

> Just thought you'd like to know.

>

> Belinda

> LaBelle Acres

> www.labelleacres.com

>

>

>

>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Belinda, It always amazes me people like dead

bugs,worm carcasses, dead microorganisms,rodent droppings,insect

frags,anti-freeze,acid, solvents,anti-oxidants, etc better than food.

Because people tell me quite often, " I don't want to know what is in

my food. " The things in the first sentence are allowed in foods by

USDA and Department of Agriculture so food is processed to contain

them. I don't think you want to mention this to USDA or Dept of Ag

unless you see a real good reason. They get mad when these things are

mentioned. And by the way many are there due to " food safety " . Best

regards, Dennis

[Guest guest]

> wrote:

>

>Anti-freeze: An anti-freeze is just something which lowers the freezing

>point of a liquid. Plain table salt does this.

Yes. But ethylene glycol is an issue. I like my liver, thank you.

>

>Solvents: Like water? Or were you thinking of something more along the lines

>of the dreaded dihydrogen monoxide?

Oooh, you're bad. And Dennis fell for it. (Dennis, " dihydrogen

monoxide " =H2O=water)

[Guest guest]

> >

> >Anti-freeze: An anti-freeze is just something which lowers the

freezing

> >point of a liquid. Plain table salt does this.

>

> Yes. But ethylene glycol is an issue. I like my liver, thank you.

> >

> >Solvents: Like water? Or were you thinking of something more along

the lines

> >of the dreaded dihydrogen monoxide?

>

> Oooh, you're bad. And Dennis fell for it. (Dennis, " dihydrogen

> monoxide " =H2O=water)

, where are you from? Where are you now? I never even heard

HOH called " dihydrogen monoxide " in General Chem 101. You will never

be my best buddy! Ha Ha! Regards, Dennis

[Guest guest]

> > >

> > ><<<<<<<<<<snipped>>>>>>>>>

> > >

> > >Solvents: Like water? Or were you thinking of something more

along

> the lines

> > >of the dreaded dihydrogen monoxide?

> >

> > Oooh, you're bad. And Dennis fell for it. (Dennis, " dihydrogen

> > monoxide " =H2O=water)

>

> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<snipped>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>

>

> , where are you from? Where are you now? I never even heard

> HOH called " dihydrogen monoxide " in General Chem 101.

<<snipped>>>>>>

> Regards, Dennis

Since we all now know we're discussing water name 1 of 7 chemical

properties of the water molecule which makes it unique relative to

other molecules. Dennis

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " dkemnitz2000 " <dkemnitz2000@...>

> , where are you from? Where are you now?

Originally San Diego, now Seattle.

> I never even heard

> HOH called " dihydrogen monoxide " in General Chem 101.

It's standard chemical nomeclature, isn't it? Or perhaps " hydroxylic acid "

would be more appropriate? It's a fairly common joke intended to show how

deceptive sensationalistic statements about harmless but scary-sounding

chemicals can be. Or for some, I suppose, it's just good clean fun. You'd be

surprised how entertaining it can be to listen to a tree-hugger ranting

about how we need the government to save us from the environment-raping

corporations--when the latest thing that's set him off is this:

http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

Berg

[Guest guest]

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " dkemnitz2000 " <dkemnitz2000@y...>

>

> > , where are you from? Where are you now?

>

> Originally San Diego, now Seattle.

>

> > I never even heard

> > HOH called " dihydrogen monoxide " in General Chem 101.

>

> It's standard chemical nomeclature, isn't it? Or perhaps " hydroxylic

acid "

> would be more appropriate? It's a fairly common joke intended to

show how

> deceptive sensationalistic statements about harmless but

scary-sounding

> chemicals can be. Or for some, I suppose, it's just good clean fun.

You'd be

> surprised how entertaining it can be to listen to a tree-hugger

ranting

> about how we need the government to save us from the

environment-raping

> corporations--when the latest thing that's set him off is this:

>

> http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

>

> Berg

>>>>>>>>>>>I noticed it (HOH) gets less dense in it's solid state. If

it didn't fresh water lakes would freeze from the bottom up. Rough

for aquatic life during winters. That is one of seven chemical

anomalies of the water molecule. I only asked for one cause that was

all I figured I could explain quickly. Dennis