Re: raw liver - superfood, but tastes like crap

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/14/2002 8:53:48 PM Central Daylight Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> Sooo....for those of you who consume raw liver fairly regularly, how do you

> prepare it to make it palatable, or at minimum - less nauseating?

>

> Also, what species' liver do you consume?

>

> Suze

I don't consume raw liver regularly, don't consume cooked liver regulary

because I want it fresh as in 4-8 hours old at the most. Just don't like the

smell of it cooking or the taste if it's been around longer. Mostly we cook

up liver, heart and lungs of the goats we butcher throughout the year. We

only do one beef a year so I don't eat much of that and with so many catfish

in the pond Larry steals the chicken liver for fishing.

Belinda

LaBelle Acres

www.labelleacres.com

[Guest guest]

>>>> Mostly we cook up liver, heart and lungs of the goats we butcher

throughout the year.

***Ohmygosh! Lungs? How on earth do you prepare those so you don't have to

chew and chew and chew? I've got lungs, too, which I bought for my dogs. It

took me forever to cut it (11 lb. beef lung) into small chunks to freeze.

Then, trying to cut each small chunk into smaller chunks is also a

challenge - it's so darn rubbery. I end up putting it in the food

processor. Somehow, it's hard to imagine eating it myself, alhtough perhaps

from a smaller species it wouldn't seem like eating a big sponge..? For dogs

it's supposed to be one of the most digestible foods (4th most digestible, I

believe), but it's hard to imagine after barely being able to get a knife

through it. (It just occurred to me why some of the serated pieces of my

knife blade are gone...)

One last question, *how* do you prepare the liver, heart and lungs?

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

I've got some veal liver that I keep in the freezer. I'm still at the

stage where I just shave off a few frozen peelings and chew those. At

first even that made me gag, but now I can handle it.

I like pate, I have no idea why liver itself is so repugnant tasting.

[Guest guest]

My only experience thus far was as a private

chef/nurse aid to a client lacking iron. I ran beef

liver through a juicer and got about 4 liquid ounces

then added at least 4 oz. of a green vegi juice. I

tasted the " cocktail " and it was palatable. My client

drank it all up!

-

Grass Valley, California

--------------------------------

--- Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

" ... how do you prepare it to make it palatable, or at

minimum - less nauseating? Also, what species' liver

do you consume? "

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/14/2002 9:21:01 PM Central Daylight Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> One last question, *how* do you prepare the liver, heart and lungs?

>

>

>

> Suze

Keep in mind I said goat heart, liver and lungs. <G> Much smaller than beef.

I cut them up small and fry them in lard, sometimes with onions, sometimes

not.

Belinda

LaBelle Acres

www.labelleacres.com

[Guest guest]

I use grass fed BEEF liver, which is very strong tasting and here's

what I do (I'm not a fan of liver by the way)..

I use the liver tonic cocktail in the tonic section, it's the one

Pottenger used. I've

modified it a bit. I use whole canned tomatoes rather than juice or

I use fresh ones, maybe 3/4 cup or more, and add 1/4 to 1/2 cup of

NT lacto fermented salsa(nice and garlicy), the lime juice, cayenne,

some salt, and

about 1/4 cup frozen chunks of pasture fed beef liver. Blend really

well(to smithereens). This is very easy for me to drink. As long as

everything is

pretty cold the liver flavor is overpowered, especially by the salsa

flavors. I would have never guessed I could make beef liver

edible.....

So, I try to have this every day, and if I wanted to get more liver

in my system, I'd just have some with every meal or something. I

have the liver frozen in 1 lb. chunks that I use a big knife and a

wooden mallet to hammer off smaller chunks to toss in the blender.

I'm sure you could do this with any organ meats....When I first made

this, I started with smaller amounts of liver and have gradually

increased it as I got up the nerve! Pate isn't bad if you use

chicken liver, but I prefer not to cook it nowdays due to because of

digestion and assimilation reasons...

Becky

> Sooo....for those of you who consume raw liver fairly regularly,

how do you

> prepare it to make it palatable, or at minimum - less nauseating?

>

> Also, what species' liver do you consume?

>

> Suze Fisher

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

> mailto:s.fisher22@v...

[Guest guest]

>>>>I've modified it a bit. I use whole canned tomatoes rather than juice or

I use fresh ones, maybe 3/4 cup or more, and add 1/4 to 1/2 cup of

NT lacto fermented salsa(nice and garlicy), the lime juice, cayenne,

some salt, and

about 1/4 cup frozen chunks of pasture fed beef liver.

***Hey now, this sounds pretty good. Garlic, lime juice and cayenne - if

these things can't mask the taste of raw liver, I suppose nothing can!

>>>>So, I try to have this every day, and if I wanted to get more liver

in my system, I'd just have some with every meal or something.

***Are you having this *every day* for therapeutic purposes? Just wondering,

I guess I'd be concerned about toxic accumulation of copper in my own liver

and soft tissue if I ate it every day. I'm not sure how much a 1/4 c. of raw

liver contains, but would be inclined to check it out on the USDA database

and cross-reference it with literature on toxic levels just to be sure that

this is not too much. Well, Ok, I'm curious so I just checked it. I'm not

sure exactly how much 1/4 c. raw liver weighs, but am guessing it might be

around 100 gs? 100 gs of raw beef liver (according to the USDA database) had

3.339 mgs Cu. The authors of " the Nutritional Desk Reference " write that the

" estimated safe and adequate range for copper " for adults is 1.5-3.0 mgs

(assumedly daily).

I'm sure these numbers don't exactly reflect the amount you eat daily, nor

is the safe amount as written by Somer and Garrison gospel, but it's just

something to consider if you're eating it daily. Copper toxicity can lead to

irreversible and severe damage (including liver, kidney and brain damage),

but I do wonder how the toxicity levels were determined and whether they are

accurate. Perhaps someone here knows..?

One more thing worth consider...I'm guessing that primitive peoples did

not/do not eat liver daily. But, I imagine it's OK to eat daily, at least

temporarily, for therapeutic purposes. As a case in point, I made a liver

tonic that I fed to my cancer dog in the last weeks of his life.

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

I am eating this small amount almost every day rather than eat more

once a week (due to taste issues ). And yes, I suppose it is also

theraputic right now as it has helped tremendously in my energy and

endurance level. It really is a superfood. I'm not planning on

eating less liver, unless I run out of it, as it's effects are soooo

beneficial for me. IF anything, I plan on doubling that amount. I'm

not aware of any toxicity issues with liver (grass fed), and to be

honest, I'd be surprised if this amount of liver could cause a

problem. If anything, it should be highly beneficial. Also, the

recommended amounts I am using are coming straight from Sally's

article pertaining to pregnant women and those hoping to conceive.

So, do you worry about too much liver with your dogs due to copper

levels? Have you heard of negative reactions from eating too much

liver?

Becky

> ***Are you having this *every day* for therapeutic purposes? Just

wondering,

> I guess I'd be concerned about toxic accumulation of copper in my

own liver

> and soft tissue if I ate it every day. I'm not sure how much a 1/4

c. of raw

> liver contains, but would be inclined to check it out on the USDA

database

> and cross-reference it with literature on toxic levels just to be

sure that

> this is not too much. Well, Ok, I'm curious so I just checked it.

I'm not

> sure exactly how much 1/4 c. raw liver weighs, but am guessing it

might be

> around 100 gs? 100 gs of raw beef liver (according to the USDA

database) had

> 3.339 mgs Cu. The authors of " the Nutritional Desk Reference " write

that the

> " estimated safe and adequate range for copper " for adults is 1.5-

3.0 mgs

> (assumedly daily).

>

> I'm sure these numbers don't exactly reflect the amount you eat

daily, nor

> is the safe amount as written by Somer and Garrison gospel, but

it's just

> something to consider if you're eating it daily. Copper toxicity

can lead to

> irreversible and severe damage (including liver, kidney and brain

damage),

> but I do wonder how the toxicity levels were determined and whether

they are

> accurate. Perhaps someone here knows..?

>

> One more thing worth consider...I'm guessing that primitive peoples

did

> not/do not eat liver daily. But, I imagine it's OK to eat daily, at

least

> temporarily, for therapeutic purposes. As a case in point, I made a

liver

> tonic that I fed to my cancer dog in the last weeks of his life.

>

>

> Suze Fisher

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

> mailto:s.fisher22@v...

[Guest guest]

> but I do wonder how the toxicity levels were determined and whether they

are

> accurate. Perhaps someone here knows..?

If the toxicity figures are from government Tolerable Upper Limit figures,

you can read about them to your heart's content here:

http://books.nap.edu/books/0309071836/html/113.html#pagetop

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:56:40 -0400 " Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...>

writes:

Also, what species' liver do you consume?

******Buffalo and lamb. Occasionally veal liver if I have nothing else

available. But I prefer other organ meats even though I eat them all.

Bianca

[Guest guest]

>>>I am eating this small amount almost every day rather than eat more

once a week (due to taste issues ). And yes, I suppose it is also

theraputic right now as it has helped tremendously in my energy and

endurance level. It really is a superfood. I'm not planning on

eating less liver, unless I run out of it, as it's effects are soooo

beneficial for me. IF anything, I plan on doubling that amount. I'm

not aware of any toxicity issues with liver (grass fed), and to be

honest, I'd be surprised if this amount of liver could cause a

problem. If anything, it should be highly beneficial. Also, the

recommended amounts I am using are coming straight from Sally's

article pertaining to pregnant women and those hoping to conceive.

***Is that article on the website, or in NT? I looked for it on the web site

but didn't see any mention of liver amounts, nor did I see it in the book. I

*would* like to read it, if you can tell me where to find it.

>>>>So, do you worry about too much liver with your dogs due to copper

levels? Have you heard of negative reactions from eating too much

liver?

***No because I don't feed it daily. We had a very in-depth thread on this

issue - liver, storage of various vits and mins as well as toxins on a

private email list on advanced topics in canine and feline nutrition that I

co-own, and at that time I took a good look at the amounts of liver and

kidney I was feeding. I figured out what seemed like a safe amount for my 9

lb. dogs and I've been feeding that amount ever since. That is, except when

my Chihuahua had sudden acute liver disease, then I upped his liver intake,

because I believe like heals like.

I was mainly concerned about vit. A toxicity at the time, because I do give

them CLO, especially my min pin girl with mild hypocalcemia, who needs the

extra vitamin d. A few of the European members on my list (who have access

to literature in other languages) provided some info on the vit A content of

different species' livers. For example, according to " Ernaehrung des Hundes,

Grundlagen, Fuetterung, Diaetik " by Prof. em. Dr. Dr.h.c. Helmut Meyer and

PD Dr. Jurgen Zentek (a canine nutrition book by two German vets), liver can

contain 30-3000 IU vit A per gram. According to another list member in

Switzerland (who has some good information on nutrition-related topics on

her website, btw - http://www.serve.com/BatonRouge/nutr.htm), pork liver can

have up to 4500 IU vit a per gram(!), which translates to 450,000 IU/100 g!

(from " Vitamin A in Danish Pig, Calf, and Ox Liver, 1993, Journal of Food

Composition and Analysis " )

While dogs have a higher tolerance for vit a intake than some other species,

toxic levels have been reached (through daily feeding of liver) at over

30,000 IU/kg day. So, theoretically, I could cause vit A toxicity in my dogs

by feeding them a mere 100 gs of pork liver at the highest concentration of

vit a storage (mentioned above) per week.

But, I really don't give it much thought any more - I feed them a little a

few times a week. They also get a powdered organ/gland supplement from NZ

cattle that also contains liver (as well as brain and other hard-to-find

stuff).

Until I feel that *I* have a much better sense of vit and mineral toxicity

issues and PC nutrition vs. non-PC, etc, I prefer to proceed with caution,

at least in regards to my dogs. Now when it comes to *my* nutrition, that's

another story!

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

> ***Is that article on the website, or in NT? I looked for it on the

web site

> but didn't see any mention of liver amounts, nor did I see it in

the book. I

> *would* like to read it, if you can tell me where to find it.

It is on the website. Look under Childrens Health, then under

Successful Breastfeeding article, it is near the bottom of the page.

It recommends 3-4 ounces of fresh liver once or twice a week.

Becky

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>However, on a brighter note, I also tasted raw beef kidney, and frankly it

>had no taste (which is certainly a step up from the liver).

I made a (cooked) beef kidney dish a couple weeks, and the taste was

extremely strong, so I'm having a little difficulty wrapping my mind around

the idea that it would be tasteless raw. <g> Let me ask you this: what

did the raw kidneys SMELL like?

-

[Guest guest]

> Suze-

>

> >However, on a brighter note, I also tasted raw beef kidney, and

frankly it

> >had no taste (which is certainly a step up from the liver).

>

> I made a (cooked) beef kidney dish a couple weeks, and the taste was

> extremely strong, so I'm having a little difficulty wrapping my mind

around

> the idea that it would be tasteless raw. <g> Let me ask you this:

what

> did the raw kidneys SMELL like?

>

I've had raw kidney from pastured bison and black angus, both very

strong smelling and tasting. I would imagine it is a function of what

the animal eats.

Portland, OR

[Guest guest]

Me:

>However, on a brighter note, I also tasted raw beef kidney, and frankly it

>had no taste (which is certainly a step up from the liver).

:

>>>>I made a (cooked) beef kidney dish a couple weeks, and the taste was

extremely strong, so I'm having a little difficulty wrapping my mind around

the idea that it would be tasteless raw. <g> Let me ask you this: what

did the raw kidneys SMELL like?

Me again:

Nothing.

It was organic beef kidney (pasture-raised, I think, unless it was from a

batch of stuff I got from a steer slaughtered this winter from a local

farm). No particular smell, no particular taste. Kinda slimy texture,

though. THAT takes getting used to!

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

At 07:03 PM 4/16/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>It was organic beef kidney (pasture-raised, I think, unless it was from a

>batch of stuff I got from a steer slaughtered this winter from a local

>farm). No particular smell, no particular taste. Kinda slimy texture,

>though. THAT takes getting used to!

>

>Suze Fisher

Well, I'm sure that raw liver is better for you, but to my mind liver was

properly designed for a good pate'. All this talk of liver forced me to go

look up a recipe (all the commercial ones contain nitrates), and I blended

up some liver, hamburger, eggs, and some spices in the mixer. Now if you

want raw liver -- THAT is the way to go, it smelled heavenly. Add some

tomatoes and you'd swear it was a Bloody . Not slimy at all.

But I baked it at a low temp (they recommend 170 degrees in a water bath)

and today it's the best pate' I've ever had! I spread it on a cabbage leaf

for crunch.

In a blender:

1T cream

2 tsp. salt

1/4 tsp pepper (not me though: I just started shaking, I love pepper: added

some cayenne too)

1/2 tsp ginger

1/8 tsp nutmeg

1/4 tsp cardamom

1/4 tsp majoram

1/8 tsp sage

pinch of dry mustard

1/2 onion

2 eggs

1 lb liver

1/2 lb ground other meat and fat (if not drinking raw).

Blend and drink, if you like it raw. Or, line a bread pan with bacon or fat

of your choice, the pour in the sauce. Bake for 1 1/2 hours in a pan of

water at 170 degrees. You can alternatively pour it into a sausage casing,

tie off the ends, and bake in water to make liverwurst.

Heidi Schuppenhauer

Trillium Custom Software Inc.

heidis@...

[Guest guest]

>>>>Blend and drink, if you like it raw. Or, line a bread pan with bacon or

fat

of your choice, the pour in the sauce. Bake for 1 1/2 hours in a pan of

water at 170 degrees. You can alternatively pour it into a sausage casing,

tie off the ends, and bake in water to make liverwurst.

***Heidi,

Thanks alot for that recipe! It brought up a question I have for the group

in general - does anyone eat raw ground *commercially* raised beef or other

meats?

I don't think my gut could handle commercial ground meat from a feedlot

steer. I've heard that ground beef can contain literally dozens or more

different animals in the same batch, and it's most likely to be contaminated

with e.coli than steaks are (due to increased contact with surface areas).

I'm particularly thinking of that acid-resistant strain 0157....something.

I used to feed locally raised raw ground meat to my dogs, but it gave them

diarrhea. Now I grind it myself.

If anyone on the list IS eating commercial raw ground meat, how often do you

eat it, and how long have you been eating it? Any problems at all?

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...