RE: Testimonials from the low-fat refugees

[Guest guest]

At 06:17 PM 4/24/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>Heidi-

>

> >So why are they feeding sick little kids Canola, Karo and soy?

>

>Because these ingredients are cheap for them to acquire and produce and

>thus provide a high profit margin compared to healthy whole foods.

>

>-

The producers -- that makes sense. But the doctors and the nutritionists

don't care either: and from talking to them, neither do the parents. I

suppose it's just an extension of the whole fast-food issue in our society:

drink " instant breakfast " and you don't have to spend the 10 minutes or so

it would take to cook up an egg or peel a banana.

Heidi Schuppenhauer

Trillium Custom Software Inc.

heidis@...

[Guest guest]

>>>That's my theory. My plan is to improve my health as much as possible,

and, when I'm healthier and eating a more raw diet (i.e. more RAF)

gradually decrease my pancreatin dose and see what happens. Obviously I

was suffering from enzyme insufficiency to start with, but hopefully I can

get things going to the point where I someday won't need a supplement

anymore.

***Have you considered adding sweetbreads - especially pancreas - to your

diet?

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Heidi-

>The reason for the sugars is for n calories of carbohydrates in a small

>volume.

Dairy! Cream! Heavy cream! Heavy Jersey cream!

-

[Guest guest]

At 10:15 PM 4/24/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>Heidi-

>

> >The reason for the sugars is for n calories of carbohydrates in a small

> >volume.

>

>Dairy! Cream! Heavy cream! Heavy Jersey cream!

Ymmm. My first thought a year ago was melted Haagen Daaz ... 440 calories

to 1/2 cup ... the nutritionist talked be out of it, said the cream took

too long to digest. I've been practicing on myself though -- since I gave

up gluten, the cream digests just fine, esp. with some fermented vegies. I

had thought was allergic to milk (he got diarrhea from an earlier

formula that had it), but he was tested today and he isn't -- at least to

the degree a skin test shows such things.

Interestingly, my daughter has been getting headaches from milk, even goat

milk, but does just fine on cream watered down a little (I blend it with

some fruit and a calcium tablet, faux milk). Probably the lactose -- she

does ok on yogurt too. My husband is kind of having a cow (pun intended)

saying that's not his idea of what to feed her for breakfast, but she's

doing fine on it and has actually gotten more slender.

OK, next week we'll test him on cream.

Heidi Schuppenhauer

Trillium Custom Software Inc.

heidis@...

[Guest guest]

Heidi-

>My first thought a year ago was melted Haagen Daaz ... 440 calories

>to 1/2 cup ...

No, no, stay away from the sugars! Sugar is NOT good for anyone. Healthy

primitive societies didn't even consume that much in the way of natural

sweeteners, but the sweeteners they did use, like honey, were rich in

enzymes and minerals and other factors, whereas refined sugar is devoid of

all other nutrients and is therefore also much denser in actual sugars.

I don't remember how old your boy is, but if he still needs lactose that's

one thing -- and might best be given to him via milk -- but sucrose,

fructose, corn syrup, etc., are all bad, and lactose is bad for anyone who

can't tolerate it. Totally unheated honey is a decent sweetener, but even

there I'd advise caution and avoid large amounts.

>I've been practicing on myself though -- since I gave

>up gluten, the cream digests just fine, esp. with some fermented vegies.

The gluten theory is basically bankrupt. I highly recommend _Breaking The

Vicious Cycle_ -- the newest edition has a supplement specifically about

celiac disease. (And if you're skeptical based on 's post on the

subject, don't be; I just noticed his post, and I'll be responding

shortly. <g>)

>Interestingly, my daughter has been getting headaches from milk, even goat

>milk, but does just fine on cream watered down a little

The heavier the cream the better, because the amount of lactose is reduced.

Cream is a *fantastic* way to get a lot of calories into someone, and if

you need or want to sweeten it, use some unheated honey. (Some honeys

claim to be raw but are in fact heated. Really Raw Honey and some other

brands are truly unheated, but it can take some research.)

-

[Guest guest]

Heidi-

>But the doctors and the nutritionists

>don't care either:

That's a more complicated issue, but consider where their information comes

from and where their income comes from. Also, it's very, very hard for

doctors to admit, even to themselves, that they've been doing the wrong

thing and perhaps even harming their patients. Mercola excerpted and

commented on an article about that very problem.

>and from talking to them, neither do the parents. I

>suppose it's just an extension of the whole fast-food issue in our society:

>drink " instant breakfast " and you don't have to spend the 10 minutes or so

>it would take to cook up an egg or peel a banana.

Well, one problem parents have is shared with doctors -- if they admit the

diet they've been feeding their kids is wrong and harmful, they admit

they've been harming their kids, and a lot of people can't do that. But

mostly I think it's just ignorance -- how many people actually know that

saturated animal fat is good, for example?

-

[Guest guest]

>>>>FYI:

Pancreas isn't a sweetbread. Sweetbread refers only to the thymus glands.

***,

I don't think so. See the following references. Also, a google search will

get you countless other references using keywords " pancreas sweetbread. "

Perhaps, in a particular *region* of the country, only thymus is considered

to be sweetbread, but I don't think that's reflective of the more global

definition which includes pancreas.

http://www.bartleby.com/65/sw/sweetbre.html

" The thymus gland (known as throat sweetbread) and the pancreas (stomach

sweetbread), especially of the calf and lamb (although beef sweetbreads are

sometimes eaten), are considered delicacies and are rich in mineral elements

and vitamins. The pancreas is generally preferred to the thymus. Sweetbreads

are highly perishable and, immediately after removal from refrigeration,

should be soaked and parboiled, then creamed, curried, braised, or otherwise

prepared for serving. "

http://www.xrefer.com/entry/221414

" pancreas (or sweetbread)

A large gland that lies in the mammalian abdomen. It contains two separate

types of cell. "

http://63.1911encyclopedia.org/S/SW/SWEETBREAD.htm

" SWEETBREAD, a popular term for certain glands of animals, particularly when

used as articles of food; these are usually the pancreas, the

" stomach-sweetbread " of butchers, and the thymus, or " breast sweetbread. "

The term is also sometimes used to include the salivary and lymphatic

glands... "

http://www.surgerydoor.co.uk/medcon/detail2.asp?level2=Pancreatitis

" The pancreas (sweetbread) is a gland that is situated in the back of the

upper abdominal cavity. "

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

Have you tried kefir? Kefir has a much wider range of

friendly microflora than does yogurt--at least real

kefir does (home-made using kefir-grains). It is also

a lot easier to make than yogurt, as the milk needs

not be pasturized--just add the 'grains' and let sit

at room temperature overnight. I prefer to use

raw-milk (whenever I can get it, raw goat milk if

possible).

I have found that kefir is much more tolerable than

milk for those who have problems with milk (i.e.,

alergies or lactose intolerances). I also find that

drinking a small amount of kefir with each meal helps

dramatically with digesting all kinds of foods

(especially beans).

-Craig

---

Message: 2

Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:26:35 -0700

From: Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...>

Subject: Re: Re: Testimonials from the low-fat

refugees

At 10:15 PM 4/24/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>Heidi-

>

> >The reason for the sugars is for n calories of

carbohydrates in a

small

> >volume.

>

>Dairy! Cream! Heavy cream! Heavy Jersey cream!

Ymmm. My first thought a year ago was melted Haagen

Daaz ... 440

calories

to 1/2 cup ... the nutritionist talked be out of it,

said the cream

took

too long to digest. I've been practicing on myself

though -- since I

gave

up gluten, the cream digests just fine, esp. with some

fermented

vegies. I

had thought was allergic to milk (he got

diarrhea from an

earlier

formula that had it), but he was tested today and he

isn't -- at least

to

the degree a skin test shows such things.

Interestingly, my daughter has been getting headaches

from milk, even

goat

milk, but does just fine on cream watered down a

little (I blend it

with

some fruit and a calcium tablet, faux milk). Probably

the lactose --

she

does ok on yogurt too. My husband is kind of having a

cow (pun

intended)

saying that's not his idea of what to feed her for

breakfast, but she's

doing fine on it and has actually gotten more slender.

OK, next week we'll test him on cream.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

At 02:39 AM 4/25/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>Heidi-

>

> >My first thought a year ago was melted Haagen Daaz ... 440 calories

> >to 1/2 cup ...

>

>No, no, stay away from the sugars! Sugar is NOT good for anyone. Healthy

>primitive societies didn't even consume that much in the way of natural

>sweeteners, but the sweeteners they did use, like honey, were rich in

>enzymes and minerals and other factors, whereas refined sugar is devoid of

>all other nutrients and is therefore also much denser in actual sugars.

I wasn't really serious (for one thing Haagen Daaz is too pricey). I make

my own ice cream, and it isn't sweet, and I do use honey (though it isn't

raw, that is a point: we got in the habit of not using raw because of the

botulism issue for babies). But real ice cream has lots of egg yolks in it

too, and my experience in raising young animals is that egg yolks work real

good.

The allergy tests showed as being allergic to eggs, which is

interesting -- I'm not sure how that is going to affect all this. Basically

I like the meat/vegie idea a lot better than basing foods on carbs and

sugars -- but you have to know that we are dealing with a kid whose

digestion is considered so delicate that until recently he was getting only

pre-digested fats. The docs really did not like the idea of whole lipids

(because of stomach emptying issues). When people have delicate stomachs

the conventional wisdom is to give them carbs. I'm beginning to reverse

this for myself (I'm a safe guinea pig, I don't experiment on my kids) and

maybe I'm slow on the uptake, but my own gut seems to be fine with all this

verboten stuff like steak fat and cream as long as it doesn't include

Canola and too much starch.

Anyway, I need to get him a different feeding apparatus ASAP, I think. If

we can give him more solid foods, then the sweetener issue becomes a moot

point.

>I don't remember how old your boy is, but if he still needs lactose that's

>one thing -- and might best be given to him via milk -- but sucrose,

>fructose, corn syrup, etc., are all bad, and lactose is bad for anyone who

>can't tolerate it. Totally unheated honey is a decent sweetener, but even

>there I'd advise caution and avoid large amounts.

I don't think he needs lactose, and he may have reacted to it so I don't

have any desire to use it. None of the rest of the family seems to get

along with it. But interestingly, the allergy tests did NOT show him

allergic to it. Maybe he just can't digest it. But he DID show allergic to

eggs. Does anyone know what that means in practical terms? We are feeding

him eggs now, and he seems to be doing much better on them (the alternative

is soy, which he did not test allergic to, but I do understand the issues

with it).

>

> >I've been practicing on myself though -- since I gave

> >up gluten, the cream digests just fine, esp. with some fermented vegies.

>

>The gluten theory is basically bankrupt. I highly recommend _Breaking The

>Vicious Cycle_ -- the newest edition has a supplement specifically about

>celiac disease. (And if you're skeptical based on 's post on the

>subject, don't be; I just noticed his post, and I'll be responding

>shortly. <g>)

OK, ok, I'll order it ... :-) I've been reading a fair amount on celiac

though, and it does seem to be a very traceable autoimmune disorder, even

to the point of pinning down which part of the protein the body reacts to.

And celiacs react to TINY amounts of gluten, not the larger amounts of

wheat that nourish yeast or bacteria. My understanding of " Breaking the

Vicious Cycle " is that it's mostly about how starches foul up the gut flora

-- a theory I tend to agree with -- but my problems with gluten happen even

if (esp. if) it is the gluten protein without any starch at all. And you

can get the celiac reaction with NO symptoms (since most of the symptoms

happen when the undigested food fouls up the gut flora) -- so you can cure

the symptoms but not the disease quite easily, which makes me skeptical of

anyone who says they have " cured " it. The only way you can tell if it's

cured is to go in with an endoscope and see if the villi are healed and

stay healed and don't react when a person eats gluten. Back 20 years ago I

thought I was " cured " of my " gluten intolerance " (via rotation diet, based

on another popular book), which was really a bad, bad mistake. That's my

skepticism, not based on reading the book!

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

I bought some grains, fermented them, it smelled great. My hubby and

daughter had some and thought it was great. I tried it twice -- in small

amounts -- and got horribly sick. Not food-poisoning sick, but my body DID

NOT like this at all! (It doesn't like plain yogurt much either). I can't

figure what it is: it could be that one of the yeast or bacterial proteins

is one I happen to be allergic to.

It's very disappointing: I had high hopes for it!

I didn't get sick off my sauerkraut though.

-- Heidi

At 09:34 AM 4/25/2002 -0700, you wrote:

>Heidi,

>Have you tried kefir? Kefir has a much wider range of

>friendly microflora than does yogurt--at least real

>kefir does (home-made using kefir-grains). It is also

>a lot easier to make than yogurt, as the milk needs

>not be pasturized--just add the 'grains' and let sit

>at room temperature overnight. I prefer to use

>raw-milk (whenever I can get it, raw goat milk if

>possible).

>I have found that kefir is much more tolerable than

>milk for those who have problems with milk (i.e.,

>alergies or lactose intolerances). I also find that

>drinking a small amount of kefir with each meal helps

>dramatically with digesting all kinds of foods

>(especially beans).

>

>-Craig

>

>---

>Message: 2

> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:26:35 -0700

> From: Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...>

>Subject: Re: Re: Testimonials from the low-fat

>refugees

>

>At 10:15 PM 4/24/2002 -0400, you wrote:

> >Heidi-

> >

> > >The reason for the sugars is for n calories of

>carbohydrates in a

>small

> > >volume.

> >

> >Dairy! Cream! Heavy cream! Heavy Jersey cream!

>

>Ymmm. My first thought a year ago was melted Haagen

>Daaz ... 440

>calories

>to 1/2 cup ... the nutritionist talked be out of it,

>said the cream

>took

>too long to digest. I've been practicing on myself

>though -- since I

>gave

>up gluten, the cream digests just fine, esp. with some

>fermented

>vegies. I

>had thought was allergic to milk (he got

>diarrhea from an

>earlier

>formula that had it), but he was tested today and he

>isn't -- at least

>to

>the degree a skin test shows such things.

>

>Interestingly, my daughter has been getting headaches

>from milk, even

>goat

>milk, but does just fine on cream watered down a

>little (I blend it

>with

>some fruit and a calcium tablet, faux milk). Probably

>the lactose --

>she

>does ok on yogurt too. My husband is kind of having a

>cow (pun

>intended)

>saying that's not his idea of what to feed her for

>breakfast, but she's

>doing fine on it and has actually gotten more slender.

>

>OK, next week we'll test him on cream.

>

>

>

>

>

>__________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

At 04:14 AM 4/25/02 -0400, you wrote:

>Well, one problem parents have is shared with doctors -- if they admit the

>diet they've been feeding their kids is wrong and harmful, they admit

>they've been harming their kids, and a lot of people can't do that.  But

>mostly I think it's just ignorance -- how many people actually know that

>saturated animal fat is good, for example?

>-

ly, hindsight and ignorance to my oldest's diet is probably one of the

biggest shames in my life. I was younger, chasing the proverbial carrot to

have

and give more, forgot the common sense and self sufficiency I was brought

up on

and was too busy to self educate. Wasn't an internet then either. Have five

more years at least with the youngest to try to reverse some of my neglect.

Parents do have the responsibility to know what they're putting into their

children to prolong their life after they've given them life too.

It was saturated fat that led me here. Knew that the fat had been altered from

the lard, raw butter, milk and wild game fat I'd been brought up on and that

there was less grain feeding then. Knew that without it there was something

missing and that fat was common to all hunter/gatherers and everyone was one

somewhere in their ancestry. Pemmican being a mainstay here. Was bummed after

reading Traditional Foods are your Best Medicine by D. Schmid N.D. WAP

is referred to a lot but fat is only mentioned being available from wild game.

Well if laws don't allow someone to live this way then are we all doomed?

Besides the fact that the population is not there to provide such because of

development. Came upon coconut info which led to here. Never thought it would

be found in the plant world.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Heidi-

>And celiacs react to TINY amounts of gluten, not the larger amounts of

>wheat that nourish yeast or bacteria.

Nonetheless, they're not going to get better if they eat other grain

starches, like corn.

>My understanding of " Breaking the

>Vicious Cycle " is that it's mostly about how starches foul up the gut flora

>-- a theory I tend to agree with -- but my problems with gluten happen even

>if (esp. if) it is the gluten protein without any starch at all.

It's also about the actual digestibility of different starches.

>The allergy tests showed as being allergic to eggs, which is

>interesting -- I'm not sure how that is going to affect all this.

That is sort of interesting, but food allergies tend to diminish and

disappear as gut health is improved, which involves restricting carbs,

especially problem carbs, and eating more good meat and fat, which will

almost of necessity include eggs.

-

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>***Have you considered adding sweetbreads - especially pancreas - to your

>diet?

Yup... once I find a source.

-

[Guest guest]

At 07:04 PM 4/27/2002 -0400, you wrote:

> >And celiacs react to TINY amounts of gluten, not the larger amounts of

> >wheat that nourish yeast or bacteria.

>

>Nonetheless, they're not going to get better if they eat other grain

>starches, like corn.

That's just not true in real life. It depends on how sick they are -- only

about 1/3 have the " diarrhea " problem, and many or most have no symptoms at

all. I know for myself I can eat all the rice and potatoes I want: when I

went gf I was taking care not to change the macronutrient balance of my

diet, because it was an experiment and I didn't want too many variables.

And just removing the gluten got rid of 90% of the problems I was having

within a few weeks, which kind of amazed me but is actually fairly typical.

And talking to people on the celiac group, most of them do get well in a

few months, even though their diet is not all that nutritious -- and their

" getting better " is verified by biopsy and blood tests.

The problems I've had since then have invariably been from sausages

(supposedly ones without a lot of additives etc.) and canola oil, and not

starch related at all. I have cut down on starches since, particularly the

dry-grain ones, but it's not because of the celiac-type symptoms (it's more

blood-sugar related).

But I'm not saying the diet isn't good for celiacs: the ones who had

trouble getting better swear by the book as a way to get healed, and I'd

tend to agree it would work well. Esp. since going on a diet that

restrictive would eliminate the cross-contamination problem. I pretty much

had to stop using packaged products because the ingredients are so

complicated (but note: that is not the same as giving up corn or sorghum or

rice!). I do think some starches are more digestible than others (which is

why I am interested in NT), and they are definitely harder on people with

damaged guts, but the issues are different.

It troubles me, though, that she would imply that the " gluten reaction "

isn't the cause of celiac (when it's been well-verified in the lab), or

that celiacs " are not going to get better if they eat other grain starches "

(quoting you, above). According to a quote I read, she's also implying that

this problem (celiac) can get " cured " -- which is not only unsubstantiated,

it's downright dangerous. You can stop eating grains totally and still get

gluten -- via nice stuff like TVP and self-basting turkeys -- and it WILL

cause an increased risk of all kinds of things and decreased absorption of

nutrients -- whether or not the person feels any symptoms at all. A person

following the SCDiet will no doubt feel really good after a year -- and

they very well may get no symptoms eating wheat either. It takes years,

sometimes, for the gut to get bad enough to notice. My reading is that the

person, after reading this book, will decide a little bit here and there is

going to be ok because their gut is now " healed " .

If you are going to hold Sally's feet to the fire about calves and milk,

then this lady should be giving really good proof of any of these kinds of

statements, which are not theoretical statements about how farmers raise

calves, but are giving real advice to people about how they eat.

Heidi Schuppenhauer

Trillium Custom Software Inc.

heidis@...

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

My oldest daughter who has been working terribly hard at a hospital as part of

her last year of RN training has recently been having anxiety attacks. She did

find some thyroid disorder I don't remember to talk to her doctor about.

One of

its connections was to steroids my first instinct with your girlfriend's

friend. They're in asthma inhalers and do a job on mineral absorption at

least.

My daughter's doctor just gave her one of the serotonin uptake drugs even

though my daughter brought up the steroid injection she was given just before

my grandson was born. It was to develop his lungs better as her doctor had not

given her the shot needed because of her Rh factor risking my grandson to a

full blood transfusion at birth that luckily wasn't needed. She hasn't been

able to go back to her before baby weight in four years.

Wanita

At 09:53 AM 4/23/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Hello to all of you who have had health crashes or gradual worsening of

>chronic conditions due to a long-term low-fat diet.

>

>A friend of mine's girlfriend is in her late 20's and works as a nurse in a

>neonatal ICU at a local children's hospital.  She has pretty severe asthma

>which has gotten worse throughout the last several years.  Even she admits

>that the worsening seems to coincide neatly with the time that she adopted a

>very lowfat, extremely low saturated fat diet.  She eats white chicken meat,

>fish, and olive oil as her main dietary sources of fat.  Her milk (in

>espresso drinks only) is skim.  Lately, in addition to the asthma she's

>begun having a lot of anxiety, and heart palpitations (probably related).

>She is *extremely* entrenched in low-fat mainstream dogma.  She is repulsed

>by red meat (but likes virtually every flavor in that flavor category:

>Bacos, red wine, chocolate, coffee, etc).  To her, the thought of eating

>liver seems akin to eating worms raised in manure or grasshoppers farmed on

>a nuclear waste/test site.  She sees it as an inherently disgusting food

>that is high in cholesterol (first bugaboo), carries a potential for vitamin

>A toxicity (second bugaboo) and acts as the the bodies' hazardous waste

>disposal.

>

>I'm certain that I recall hearing anecdotes of asthma worsening on a lowfat

>diet.  Anybody?

>

>How about instances of anxiety and or heart irregularities due to: lowfat,

>omega imbalances, and/or magnesium/mineral imbalances?

>

>Thanks!

>

>

>