RE: water buffalo (was Re: pork question)

[Guest guest]

Dennis-

>But I'll tell you again (in another way) a steer can

>not produce offspring whereas a bull can. Just showing how your above

>statement indicating " a male is a steer or bull " is incorrect

Perhaps we're getting deep into minutia, but isn't a eunuch still

considered male? Thus wouldn't a steer still be considered a male of the

species even though it's castrated, unlike a bull?

-

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " dkemnitz2000 " <dkemnitz2000@...>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I haven't seen data/research/ " anything substantial

> you've mentioned " to disprove the statement in NT regarding

> pasteurized milk prevents calves reaching maturity (OR however,

> exactly it's worded in NT).

" Calves fed pasteurized milk die before reaching maturity " is false. Taken

strictly as worded, it means that pasteurized milk is a potent poison and

that feeding a calf any significant amount will cause it to die. Interpreted

a bit more liberally, one might suppose that it means that calves which

regularly consume pasteurized milk for a significant length of time, even in

combination with other foods, will die. The correct wording--if any--is,

" Calves which are fed pasteurized milk exclusively for X weeks die before

reaching maturity, while those which are fed raw milk exclusively for X

weeks survive to maturity. "

> You must be doing the nitpicking. I was

> just pointing out a fact. This fact. A steer is not synonomous (did I

> get it spelled right?)with bull!

You seem to have misunderstood her. She said that male cattle are called

bulls or steer, which simply means that some male cattle are called bulls,

and others are called steers. Nothing in that sentence implies that " steer "

and " bull " are synonymous. If a comma had been placed after bulls ( " Cattle

are called bulls, or steer " ) you would be correct in assuming that that

implied synonymity, but as far as I can remember there was no comma.

[Guest guest]

> > You must be doing the nitpicking. I was

> > just pointing out a fact. This fact. A steer is not synonomous (did I

> > get it spelled right?)with bull!

> You seem to have misunderstood her. She said that male cattle are called

> bulls or steer, which simply means that some male cattle are called bulls,

> and others are called steers. Nothing in that sentence implies that

" steer "

> and " bull " are synonymous. If a comma had been placed after bulls ( " Cattle

> are called bulls, or steer " ) you would be correct in assuming that that

> implied synonymity, but as far as I can remember there was no comma.

Another part of the misunderstanding that came up briefly earlier is whether

steers are, in fact, still considered males. The answer to this is a

definite 'yes.' Maleness is not merely a function of having testicles.

Genetically speaking, the animal (or person) is still in posession of the

entire Y chromosome which functions as far more than mere reproductive

determinance. Spayed and neutered pets are always still referred to as

their birth gender regardless of having had their genitalia altered. Human

survivors of double testicular cancer, uterine cancer, ovarian cancer, etc

are all still considered either male or female according their birth gender

as well. So yes, a steer is still a male, and Suze's sentence was correct

both biologically and in terms of common parlance.

[Guest guest]

" Calves which are fed pasteurized milk exclusively for X weeks die before

reaching maturity, while those which are fed raw milk exclusively for X

weeks survive to maturity. "

Yes, exactly the point. BTW, do we even know that calves fed raw milk

exclusively for X

weeks survive to maturity?

Carmen

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/25/2002 8:25:30 AM Central Daylight Time, ctn@...

writes:

> Yes, exactly the point. BTW, do we even know that calves fed raw milk

> exclusively for X

> weeks survive to maturity?

>

> Carmen

That's what I was thinking Carmen. And those poor things not being on any

grass, not having hay, pretty depressing eating, I'd say.

[Guest guest]

At 01:28 PM 4/24/02 -0700, you wrote:

>  " Calves which are fed pasteurized milk exclusively for X weeks die before

>  reaching maturity, while those which are fed raw milk exclusively for X

>  weeks survive to maturity. "

>

>  Yes, exactly the point. BTW, do we even know that calves fed raw milk

>exclusively for X

>  weeks survive to maturity?

>

>  Carmen

Have to upset the applecart here. Can human babies survive only on pasteurized

milk? No, human babies can only survive on colostrum, mother's milk, formulas

that are evaporated, dried or soy milk based or raw milk. Are we talking until

the ability to eat food is present in calves. Most people don't have much

knowledge about cattle other than comparison to human parenting so there needs

to be inclusion of more to put perspective and process in there.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

<<< Have to upset the applecart here. Can human babies survive only on

pasteurized

milk? No, human babies can only survive on colostrum, mother's milk,

formulas

that are evaporated, dried or soy milk based or raw milk. Are we talking

until

the ability to eat food is present in calves. Most people don't have much

knowledge about cattle other than comparison to human parenting so there

needs

to be inclusion of more to put perspective and process in there.

Wanita >>>

Hi Wanita,

If I understand you correctly, you are not upsetting the applecart at all.

It's been pretty well hashed over that no baby human or otherwise is

expected to live indefinitely without eventually getting solid food. I'm

getting a little confused myself, but I think we are trying to speculate

whether or not this elusive study took exactly that question into account.

Did these elusive calves die because they were fed nothing but pasteurized

milk and no grass, grain or hay? Since it's unlikely they died just because

they drank pasteurized milk, the question remains, what did they die from?

I'm wondering was there perhaps a control group of calves that were raised

to maturity on ONLY raw milk? Just speculating. I really must stop wondering

about this study that nobody can find.....just feel like people wouldn't

fabricate studies and then use them to make a point.

Carmen