Re: small farmers surviving with beyond organic

[Guest guest]

> Good points, Chi! Its simpler to compete than think beyond

> the box. So this is beyond organic, grassfed, value added

> and back to superfood. I like the part of educating not

> to what's wrong with all the rest but whats right with

> your product. Gets iffy when health claim and processing

> regulating enters.To make the best quality butter oil

> you would need many small farmers willing to enrich the soil

> and willing to produce a seasonal product. I'm in the northeast

> and there are no large pastures anymore. Other quality products

> could be made. Co-ops would be the way to go and networking

> like our dozen county milk producers that co oped to control

> their profit and the pressures that compromised the health of

> their herds for production. Its a lot of work, research and would

> suit vegetables better here.

Hi Wanita:

Speaking of " ... not to what's wrong with all the rest but whats

right with your product " , I talked to the notmilk guy at a recent

health show. I told him he should worry less about what other people

shouldn't be eating and worry more about what he is eating. I

explained how, like all plants, soybean varies in nutritional content

according to the soil fertility that grows it, and that soybean, like

corn is probably mainly hybid. Hybrid crops, I explained, have been

designed to produce higher yields in lower soil fertility resulting

in lowered nutritional value. I told him why hybrids have been

designed this way, because yield matters in agriculture and nutrition

doesn't. He asked me to e-mail him some references but I haven't got

around to it yet.

Back to small farmers. As you point out, several farmers in one area

growing different crops, all of high nutritional value because they

were grown on high soil fertility, could form their own co-op for

marketing their products. This would cut down their cost and time

required to market their products to the consumers. Because farmers

may be better at producing a high nutrition food than they are at

marketing it, if there were enough farmers in the co-op with enough

product to justify the expense, the co-op might hire a marketing

agent to do the actual selling while the farmers tend to their farms.

The agent would be hired by the farmers and could be fired by them.

The agent would need to be well informed on how foods vary in

nutritional value and some simple animal feeding experiments could

even be set up to demonstrate differences in the same crop grown on

different soils.

Chi

[Guest guest]

> > > Good points, Chi! Its simpler to compete than think beyond

> > > the box. So this is beyond organic, grassfed, value added

> > > and back to superfood. I like the part of educating not

> > > to what's wrong with all the rest but whats right with

> > > your product. Gets iffy when health claim and processing

> > > regulating enters.To make the best quality butter oil

> > > you would need many small farmers willing to enrich the soil

> > > and willing to produce a seasonal product. I'm in the northeast

> > > and there are no large pastures anymore. Other quality products

> > > could be made. Co-ops would be the way to go and networking

> > > like our dozen county milk producers that co oped to control

> > > their profit and the pressures that compromised the health of

> > > their herds for production. Its a lot of work, research and

would

> > > suit vegetables better here.

> >

> > Hi Wanita:

> > Speaking of " ... not to what's wrong with all the rest but whats

> > right with your product " , I talked to the notmilk guy at a recent

> > health show. I told him he should worry less about what other

people

> > shouldn't be eating and worry more about what he is eating. I

> > explained how, like all plants, soybean varies in nutritional

content

> > according to the soil fertility that grows it, and that soybean,

like

> > corn is probably mainly hybid. Hybrid crops, I explained, have

been

> > designed to produce higher yields in lower soil fertility

resulting

> > in lowered nutritional value. I told him why hybrids have been

> > designed this way, because yield matters in agriculture and

nutrition

> > doesn't. He asked me to e-mail him some references but I haven't

got

> > around to it yet.

> > Back to small farmers. As you point out, several farmers in one

area

> > growing different crops, all of high nutritional value because

they

> > were grown on high soil fertility, could form their own co-op for

> > marketing their products. This would cut down their cost and time

> > required to market their products to the consumers. Because

farmers

> > may be better at producing a high nutrition food than they are at

> > marketing it, if there were enough farmers in the co-op with

enough

> > product to justify the expense, the co-op might hire a marketing

> > agent to do the actual selling while the farmers tend to their

farms.

> > The agent would be hired by the farmers and could be fired by

them.

> > The agent would need to be well informed on how foods vary in

> > nutritional value and some simple animal feeding experiments could

> > even be set up to demonstrate differences in the same crop grown

on

> > different soils.

> > Chi

> >

> >

> > >>>>>>>>>>>Ladies and Gentlemen: I had to sign back on to write

two things: 1) Indeed this is a huge theory/topic which will have no

one solution that will fit all or probably even most small farmers.

As a matter of my opinion it would probably take as many

theories/solutions as there are farmers. Given there are fewer

farmers today than there were 50 years ago, it might be easier and

possible today to help the small farms change and survive beyond

organic. And secondly small farmers HAVE TO SELL AND DELIVER their

nutrient dense perishable FOOD without complications to many customers

not knowing the value of the " beyond organic " (Eliot has

recently coined the term authentic to replace the term organic)

product who therefore wish to buy them at standard american food

(SAD)prices. Best regards, Dennis Kemnitz

[Guest guest]

>

> Ps Given the attack on the WAP site and its mis-statments thought

by some, as

> an old landlord told me one time.. " NOTHIN'S 100 % "

That's not the issue, we don't expect people to be perfect

researchers. But when factual errors are uncovered, we expect them to

be changed. Sally just blew off the whole process by re-citing the

original and unreferenced study from a secondary source that is

directly contradicted by how 99.9% of dairies raise their calves. I

still can't understand why she doesn't simply change the sentence.

[Guest guest]

> If you'll pardon the blasphemy, I'd like to point out that you're

> barking up the wrong tree. It's not farmers--small or industrial

> --who have brought us to where we are now--it's consumers (and,

> with its incessant meddling in agricultural matters, the

> government). Consumers demanded cheap food and the

> farmers delivered.

Hi :

When did consumers tell the farmers that they would be happy with

cheap food of little or no nutritional value? Also, please tell me

where your government told farmers to produce cheap food of little or

no nutritional value.

Myself, I would look at who controls agriculture as the possible

source of the problem of high yields of food with low nutritional

value. You can be sure it isn't the government, the farmer or the

consumer who controls agriculture.

> A small farmer who tries to compete with an industrial

> farm will be run out of business because he can't possibly

> sell his goods at a competitive price. If you want farmers to

> produce high-quality food, you'll first have to educate consumers

> and convince them that they should pay higher prices for it.

So are you saying there are no farmers producing high nutritional

food, because, if they were, they would have been run out of business

by competition with industrial farms?

Perhaps you don't need to educate comsumers about better mouse traps,

just build one and they will beat a path to your door.

When I read " Nutrition and Physical Degeneration " many years ago, I

knew the biggest problem would be finding food comparanble in

nutritional value to that which was consumed by the healthy, isolated

people Price found in the 1930's. It would have been difficult to

find such food in America in the 1930's. With the continuing decline

in soil fertility across America, it would certainly be more

difficult to do so 60 to 70 years later.

Chi

[Guest guest]

> >When I read " Nutrition and Physical Degeneration " many years ago, I

> >knew the biggest problem would be finding food comparanble in

> >nutritional value to that which was consumed by the healthy,

isolated

> >people Price found in the 1930's. It would have been difficult to

> >find such food in America in the 1930's. With the continuing

decline

> >in soil fertility across America, it would certainly be more

> >difficult to do so 60 to 70 years later.

> >Chi

>

> Hi Chi,

> Behind on my longer replies. I don't have an answer other than to

get a soil

> test from a Swiss Alp where there is still pasture.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Clipped by Dennis>>>>>>>>

> I'd like to learn how to build great topsoil to have beyond organic

vegetables

> and forage for any future livestock. Its a lot of research along

with the

> nutritional analysis. May play around with trays of sprouted

sunflowers.

> Dr. Marasco talked about the soil health of the place that produced

the

> supplements he recommended. It must be a long process over many

years with

> adjustment to produce that quality.

>

>>>>>>>>>>Clipped by Dennis>>>>>>>>>

> Wanita

I must say I share your interest in building /rebuilding soil

fertility. What do you use the sunflowers for? A soil test? Do you

have organic sprays for fruit trees? I been wanting to attract bats

for insect control. Do you use beneficials,parasitic wasps, etc. Do

you control squash bugs? TIA, Dennis