RE: Re: secrets-for what it's worth

[Guest guest]

Oh I dont know how useless it is... they just are probably the same things are

mom has always told us, passed down through folklore. If it bore repeating over

so many generations it must have been something useful,,,if nothing else but the

comfort they give in providing " secrets " to passon tou YOUR offspring

:-)

Does anyone think that any of the suggestions are NOT a good idea? That they may

do the opposite of longevity and actually harm?

pretty safe bets I would think. It does point out some social aspects such as

the family care, and lonliness and persuing harmony...things that a lot in our

society may overlook. Obvious but forgotten

Besides, following some of those wierd diets may just make it FEEL like you live

forever :-)

quick joke:

a man is walking around heavenly paradise with his wife, with the angel telling

him that all his favorite foods are there for the asking, in unlimited

qualtities.... a lifelong dream come true. After sampling a bit and becoming

utterly overjoyed, he turns to his wife and says " ...and we have been

faithfully eating dry, plain wheat toast and prunes to postpone getting here as

long as possible ?!! "

----- Original Message

[Guest guest]

>>>>Does anyone think that any of the suggestions are NOT a good idea? That

they may do the opposite of longevity and actually harm?

***Well...this IS the NT/WAP list so the suggestion to eat a diet low in

fat, is somewhat antithetical to this paradigm.

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Point taken,

I guess I'm not up on all the detail of the lists basic beliefs.

:-)

[Guest guest]

well I guess that shows how well we have been conditioned with these platitudes

of the late 20th century " nutritionist "

I thank you for a new perspective.

The magnesium thread has also been intriguing... Fruits I suspect are ok since

monkeys similar to us do eat them, I've witnessed first hand,,,but cant think of

the time monkey ate a salad.... hence perhaps its a recent invention. Curious

how we came up with salad dressing (essentially some fatty based liquid with

tartness (?) that may be a simplistic abreviation of natural " meat " with its

irony taste.

So when mom said " eat your green " she was eessentuially full of it.... hmmm.

So essentially we just took it up and continue it because we somehow like it?

Explains a lot actually. Eatting leafy greens almost always includes chewing on

a little grit that doesnt get washed out completely, and actually wears down our

teeth...and event that I always suspected was against reasoning

intriguing.

..

----- Original Message -----

From: justinbond

Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 11:42 PM

Subject: Re: secrets-for what it's worth

> Oh I dont know how useless it is... they just are probably the same

>things are mom has always told us, passed down through folklore. If

>it bore repeating over so many generations it must have been

>something useful,,,if nothing else but the comfort they give in

>providing " secrets " to passon tou YOUR offspring

only if you are referring to the last 2 generations. Live from the

fat of the land, the cream rises to the top, the cream of the crop,

fallen on lean times, as sickly as skimmed milk and other traditional

advice to eat a high fat diet fly right in the face of 'eat a diet

high in fiber and low in fat', the current BS that you get.

OTOH, I get the ego boost of being by far the fittest beginner (and

probably intermediate for that matter. Only the ex-college squash

players could outlast me) at my local squash club. Maybe some good

does come from the low-fat crap.

[Guest guest]

At 03:42 AM 4/13/2002 +0000, you wrote:

> > Oh I dont know how useless it is... they just are probably the same

> >things are mom has always told us, passed down through folklore. If

> >it bore repeating over so many generations it must have been

> >something useful,,,if nothing else but the comfort they give in

> >providing " secrets " to passon tou YOUR offspring

Call me a cynic, but I never had much luck accepting the stuff my Mom

passed down to me either. I keep thinking about the " common knowledge " in

olden times, when of course it was *obvious* (and comforting) that the sun

circled the earth!

I suspect that the ones who accepted that premise actually let happier and

more relaxed lives than poor Copernicus. On the other hand, for every

Copernicus there were 10 nut cases with scientifically incorrect (and also

politically incorrect) theories. Getting to the " true " answer is rarely

easy! It's nice to see a group that is willing to try to hash out some

answers though.

[Guest guest]

>

>only if you are referring to the last 2 generations. Live from the

>fat of the land, the cream rises to the top, the cream of the crop,

>fallen on lean times, as sickly as skimmed milk and other traditional

>advice to eat a high fat diet fly right in the face of 'eat a diet

>high in fiber and low in fat', the current BS that you get.

Interesting quotes, particularly 'fallen on lean times' putting that

in context of what I've read on the list makes me understand a deeper

meaning. I've never heard the 'Sickly as skimmed milk' before, even

though my grandfather ran a dairy in OK before he moved here to

California. I've heard a number of old saying from the old folks.

To change gears a little and not intended to start a war or go

seriously OT. When I was going to school in the 60's and early 70s the

weather worry was the coming Ice Age... A report in the back pages of

the NY Time this past February noted that the souther ice cap is

getting deeper, but the PC science just doesn't want to address that

in the face of the investment they have in Global Warming. It is just

one more indication of things being 180 degrees out of what we used to

think. and an industry grown up around it to prove it.

Mike

[Guest guest]

>>>>This will go OT! That's what makes me skeptical of claims about the

environment and global warming. People wanted to demonize technology

so they predicted it would create an ice age. Then that got debunked

and so it got immediately recast into global warming.

***I would not demonize *modern* technology anymore than I would *primitive*

technology, whether the technology be a stone-head spear or a computer. What

*does* concern me is how humans *use* it. I suspect that for every pound of

intelligence we moderns have, there is only a pinch of wisdom to go along

with it.

Somehow, I'd feel better about a society that has more wisdom proportionate

to its intelligence...

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

> Somehow, I'd feel better about a society that has more wisdom

proportionate

> to its intelligence...

I don't believe in " wisdom. " One age's wisdom is another age's wives' tale.

One persons wisdom is another person's prejudice. To the extent that we

speak of " primitives " having wise traditions, we remove objectivity and

critical thought from our consideration of their methods. Let's not forget

how selectively we are looking at the traditions of primitive peoples.

Price didn't just walk around and collect wisdom from primitive people; he

had to *search* for especially healthy ones and try to study what they did

differently from the unhealthy ones. Let's not forget that it was primitive

people that hunted most of the large mammals to extinction in North America

and Europe. It was primitives that hunted the dominant marsupial species of

australia to extinction.

Things appear wise when they seem to not create the problems we experience

most. It's really easy to ascribe wisdom to people who are operating under

a completely different context and set of challenges than what we operate

under. Ask them to deal with the scenarios that we moderns deal with and I

seriously doubt their wisdom would serve them any better than the " killer

instincts " of the average high-powered businessperson would serve to

preserve businessperson in the wilderness of 100,000 years ago.

Just my overly-philosophical, monday-morning, need-more-coffee cynicism...

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 13 Apr 2002 00:49:01 -0000 " soilfertility "

<ynos@...> writes:

> here is the list of " secrets " compiled from these three

> groups for what its worth.

> 1. Exercise regularly and consistently

Okay but not always necessarily

> 2. Don't use preservatives or artificial colorants

Okay

> 3. Eat a frugal diet, high in fibber, low in salt, fat

> and refined sugars and rarely fry in oil.

Dumb - very dumb - not even sure it is true of these groups *and* it

certainly isn't true of people on this list!!!!!

> 4. Drink water with a high mineral content, from a

> well or mountain streams.

Okay - unless you are a true Primal Dieter

> 5. Consume plenty of fresh fruits and vegetables.

Dumb, probably tied to #3

> 6. Never experience loneliness.

Don't understand this one.

> 7. Practice holistic medicine, using traditional herbs

> and medicines to prevent and cure disease.

Dumb - eating their traditional diet would be the *best* way to cure and

prevent disease.

> 8. Enjoy regular sex, even up to the age of 100. :-)

Okay but if you choose a celibate lifestyle does that mean you will die

early? What about countless multiple sex partners? Haven't we been told

that will reduce your lifespan? This is dumb actually, just some vague

politically correct nonsense.

> 9. Live in extended families, which offer cradle to grave security

A key to long life? Dumb

> 10. Seldom drink or smoke.

Really dumb, and not true of some of these groups either.

> 11. Live at high altitudes with little air pollution.

Dumb

> 12. Respect their elders, who lead busy active lives

> into their 1oo's emphasize relationship bad harmony

> over the pursuit of wealth or success.

Dumb - since success could easily encompass all of these things.

[Guest guest]

> Yes, but lets also recall what the pattern was: those that ate their

> traditional diets were healthy, those that ate the displacing foods

> of modern commerce weren't. So while his search was selective, this

> one theory remained true (with the exception that he never found a

> healthy tribe living soley on plant foods).

Yes, but he did find relatively unhealthy tribes consuming what was

apparently their traditional diet. My point is that traditionalism is not

inherently a good way to think about things. In fact, as long as we're

advocating a WAP style diet, we're only advocating specific traditions

selected for their apparent healthfulness. Not all traditions are or were

good.

[Guest guest]

No I agree with you. I only meant that if you have an active lifestyle

(like the Price groups) a separate time for exercise is not necessary.

On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:07:37 -0000 " justinbond " <justin_bond@...>

writes:

> > here is the list of " secrets " compiled from these three

> > groups for what its worth.

> > 1. Exercise regularly and consistently

>

> Okay but not always necessarily

>

I disagree. I think some exercises are so PC that they are nearly

worthless, but there are no sedentary primitives.

[Guest guest]

> He did? When did he talk about that?

Well, the observations about the Bantu vs the Masai and Dinka for one

example. ...and recall, I wrote *relatively* unhealthy. The Bantu may have

been more healthy than Americans at the time, and they may or may not have

been more healthy than current Americans, but they were less healthy than

other African tribes with different dietary traditions. In other words, the

Bantu's diet was not a good model for creating optimum health despite the

fact that it was their " traditional " diet.

[Guest guest]

At 08:54 PM 4/15/2002 +0000, you wrote:

> > Yes, but he did find relatively unhealthy tribes consuming what was

> > apparently their traditional diet.

>

>He did? When did he talk about that?

>

>

I think it was when he visited the Cleveland tribe of the American Teenager.

(Sorry couldn't resist. The San Diego Zoo is next to a Jr. High

School. The tour guide always points out that the tallest fence at the zoo

surrounds the wildest animal. Which is true. The fence is about 20 feet

high where the fence around the lions is only about 10 feet high).

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:29:35 -0000 " justinbond " <justin_bond@...>

writes:

> > He did? When did he talk about that?

>

> Well, the observations about the Bantu vs the Masai and Dinka for

one

> example. ...and recall, I wrote *relatively* unhealthy. The Bantu

may have

> been more healthy than Americans at the time, and they may or may

not have

> been more healthy than current Americans, but they were less

healthy than

> other African tribes with different dietary traditions. In other

words, the

> Bantu's diet was not a good model for creating optimum health

despite the

> fact that it was their " traditional " diet.

I don't think I agree with your interpretation. I think WAP had a

binary classification " healthy primitives " and those that ate the

displacing foods of modern commerce. Then you can split hairs amongst

the healthy primitives and say that bantu were too close to being

vegetarian and the masai were too carnivorous while the dinka were

just right, but my reading of it was that 99% of the emphasis was on

whether these tribes met his healthy primitive standard, and that a

further point was that there are a lot of differant healthy diets out

there. That led to his interest in uncovering the patterns that

united them - good soil, fat soluble activators etc...

********,

But that is precisely the interpretation Dr. Price gives to his own work,

at least according to the WAPF. He does draw the distinction that you

make between healthy primitives and those that ate the displacing foods

of modern commerce, but he also further distinguishes between the meat

and grain group (best), mostly meat eaters, and mostly grain eaters

(worse).

I think 's breakdown is fairly legitimate. But now I have to go back

and re-read Price again making a special note of such emphasis. As if I

didn't already have enough to do (as evidenced by how far I'm behind on

these posts) :-))

Bianca