Re: Know anything about lupus?

[Guest guest]

> The 9yo dd of a friend has been tentatively diagnosed with lupus. I guess

the

> way they arrive at that is by eliminating everything else first. Got any

> wisdom I can share with her mother? I imagine diet might help.

Virtually everything regarding nutrition for auto-immune diseases will be

applicable for lupus. Just ignore the baloney about inflammatory

prostaglandins being formed by meat consumption. You would probably do very

well to incorporate a basically NT type diet, except eliminate all gluten

foods (wheat, rye, barley, and maybe oats) and all milk foods except perhaps

clarified butter. Make sure that the diet is balanced in terms of EFAs.

Make sure there aren't excessive EFAs. Get plenty of antioxidants.

If there is improvement after doing that, I'd try adding back raw cultured

milk (kefir or yogurt) and see if they get any worse. If not, keep that in

the diet. After awhile try adding back the gluten foods. If they don't

worsen, keep those in the diet too.

If there isn't improvement, they might consider a more extreme type of

elimination diet that tries to remove all common allergens and irritants for

a certain length of time. If there's improvement, you begin adding the

foods back one at a time until you discover something that appears to cause

a relapse. Leave that one out permanently and continue on...

One thing I'd suggest is to avoid drugs that are being given merely to mask

a symptom unless it's really necessary. However, don't hesitate to let them

use drugs to handle acute crises. If the child's immune system is busily

attacking her organs, there's no time to try yeat another dietary

intervention; get the situation under control with drugs and then move on

from there.

I was living in the shadow of a possible lupus diagnosis for a couple of

years; it never materialized, but I learned a fair amount about it from that

experience.

[Guest guest]

I also wanted to mention that there's a *ton* of lupus information available

on the web. Just ignore the silly anti-meat stuff that's sprinkled heavily

throughout... Wherever you see something about meat contributing to the

inflammatory processes, simply mentally substitute " grain-fed commercial

meats " for the word " meat. "

[Guest guest]

> > The 9yo dd of a friend has been tentatively diagnosed with lupus.

I guess

> the

> > way they arrive at that is by eliminating everything else first.

Got any

> > wisdom I can share with her mother? I imagine diet might help.

>

> Virtually everything regarding nutrition for auto-immune diseases

will be

> applicable for lupus. Just ignore the baloney about inflammatory

> prostaglandins being formed by meat consumption.

Inflammatory prostaglandins are formed by meat consumption, as meat

is a rich source of long chain omega-6's just like its a rich source

of long chain omega-3's. The problem is not the inflammation.

Inflammation aids the bodies healing. The problem is the source of

the damage in the first place. The same inflammatory prostaglandins

are produced when you break a bone or otherwise injure yourself as

when your body is undergoing an auto-immune response.

The problem is to deal with the root injury, not the inflammation

response. However, to nitpick my nitpick, grain fed beef (as well as

vegetable oils) have an out of balance omega-6 to omega-3 ratio. So

I'd be sure to either eat all grass fed or make sure that you

regularly supplement with cod liver oil to keep them in balance.

Otherwise a unhealthy inflammatory reponse will be created.

[Guest guest]

Hi

I was diagnosed with lupus summer 2000 and felt pretty rotten. In

January 2001, I could hardly get out of bed and my legs were aching

and the joints in my hips and knees were burning. I thought I was

going to have to go out on medical leave if it became any worse. I

went to see an acupuncturist who is very knowledgeable about chinese

herbs. She turned me on to WAP. I was a vegetarian at the time and

had been for 25 years, so it was a little more than freaky deciding

to eat meat. I have not looked back. The changes that have occurred

in my body are amazing. By April 2001, I was able to start going to

the gym and I only had joint pain when I ate something I shouldn't

have (sweets, bread, soy, etc..). Now I eat very well and splurge

occasionally without symptoms coming back. I know that it must be a

combination of the dietary changes and the Chinese medicine that have

helped. I eat a fairly low carbohydrate diet and supplement with cod

liver oil, fish oil, and flax. I am now symptom free and my MD that

diagnosed me said that either he misdiagnosed me or I am in remission.

I think that an elimination diet would be very helpful to your

friends child...to find out what foods he is allergic to..ie: which

foods cause his symptoms. I have found that I have problems with soy

and wheat. Alot of people who have lupus also have terrible

allergies. The medicines that are prescribed for lupus are horrible

and create all sorts of problems. I would highly encourage your

friend to find a reputable chinese medicine doctor, and try not to go

the allopathic route except for acute symptom management.

I don't know if this is helpful. If you have any questions, please

feel free to ask.

Gianine

> The 9yo dd of a friend has been tentatively diagnosed with lupus. I

guess the

> way they arrive at that is by eliminating everything else first.

Got any

> wisdom I can share with her mother? I imagine diet might help.

> ~~Jean

[Guest guest]

>>>>>The problem is to deal with the root injury, not the inflammation

response. However, to nitpick my nitpick, grain fed beef (as well as

vegetable oils) have an out of balance omega-6 to omega-3 ratio. So

I'd be sure to either eat all grass fed or make sure that you

regularly supplement with cod liver oil to keep them in balance.

Otherwise a unhealthy inflammatory reponse will be created.

***Hmmm...I absolutely agree that EFA balance is key, but I believe salmon,

or other fish *body* oil is actually a better source of EPA and DHA than cod

*liver* oil. Perhaps it's just marketed as such, and some fish body oil

brands do add EPA and DHA back into the oil to create the standardized

concentrations of 180 mgs EPA and 120 mgs DHA, but either way, I'm under the

impression that CLO is not as high in these fatty acids as is fish " body "

oils, in general.

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

No answers just more questions

lupus seemed to parallel symptoms that I heard about Fibromyalga, and

didn't someone mention Chronic Fatigue syndrome lately?

I know two women claiming to have FM, both are vegetarian, one of

them in particular is a wacky San Francisco woman. I occurs to me that

FM is another SAD caused diet, and possibly Chronic Fatigue, which you

never hear about anymore, it was the popular disease du jour a few

years back.

Odd note, I know both of these women feed their dogs raw, although the

SF woman does about the most unbalanced diet I can imagine. The more

sensible one is a firm believer in a natural diet for the dog, seeing

improvements in her elderly vegetarian fed dog when she switched. I

wonder if I should send her something...

Anyone have any FM links that support the ideals of this list?

Thanks

Mike

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:12:37 -0400 " Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...>

writes:

***Hmmm...I absolutely agree that EFA balance is key, but I believe

salmon,

or other fish *body* oil is actually a better source of EPA and DHA than

cod

*liver* oil. Perhaps it's just marketed as such, and some fish body oil

brands do add EPA and DHA back into the oil to create the standardized

concentrations of 180 mgs EPA and 120 mgs DHA, but either way, I'm under

the

impression that CLO is not as high in these fatty acids as is fish " body "

oils, in general.

+++++++All the more reason to eat the fish (preferably raw) and leave the

CLO supplements alone. I know I know we have covered this already but I

couldn't resist :-))))).

Bianca

[Guest guest]

>

>

> On Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:12:37 -0400 " Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@v...>

> writes:

>

> ***Hmmm...I absolutely agree that EFA balance is key, but I believe

> salmon,

> or other fish *body* oil is actually a better source of EPA and DHA

than

> cod

> *liver* oil. Perhaps it's just marketed as such, and some fish body

oil

> brands do add EPA and DHA back into the oil to create the

standardized

> concentrations of 180 mgs EPA and 120 mgs DHA, but either way, I'm

under

> the

> impression that CLO is not as high in these fatty acids as is

fish " body "

> oils, in general.

What do you think the liver does? I forget the numbers, but my bottle

of CLO has 550 for EPA and something close to that for DHA. Most

people are emphasizing the body oils because PC nutrition says that

vitamin A is toxic. But to play the common sense card, it was the

liver oil and not the body oils that were the traditional supplement.

I take a CLO because not all my meat is grassfed, so it makes up for

the EFA's and fat soluble vitamins I'm not getting.

[Guest guest]

A recent newsletter from VRP (http://www.vrp.com/) has

an article about autoimmune diseases and lupus, in

particular. It mentions some supplements that have

been shown to be very effective. As far as diet is

converned, it's low-fat.

Roman

--- BLJean@... wrote:

> The 9yo dd of a friend has been tentatively

> diagnosed with lupus. I guess the

> way they arrive at that is by eliminating everything

> else first. Got any

> wisdom I can share with her mother? I imagine diet

> might help.

> ~~Jean

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> A recent newsletter from VRP (http://www.vrp.com/) has

> an article about autoimmune diseases and lupus, in

> particular. It mentions some supplements that have

> been shown to be very effective. As far as diet is

> converned, it's low-fat.

Predictable. While reducing *polyunsaturated* and *hydrogenated* fats is

certainly a sensible approach, reducing total fat seems as ridiculous for

lupus as it is for virtually all other conditions that it's supposedly

indicated for. The interviewed doctor's hypothesis as to the mechanism of

improvement for lupus patients directly implicates Omega 6 imbalances as the

factor that the fat reduction controls. As such, it's reasonable to expect

that an NT/WAP style diet would net the exact same benefits without the

risks of a low fat diet.

[Guest guest]

Me:

> ***Hmmm...I absolutely agree that EFA balance is key, but I believe

> salmon,

> or other fish *body* oil is actually a better source of EPA and DHA

than

> cod

> *liver* oil. Perhaps it's just marketed as such, and some fish body

oil

> brands do add EPA and DHA back into the oil to create the

standardized

> concentrations of 180 mgs EPA and 120 mgs DHA, but either way, I'm

under

> the

> impression that CLO is not as high in these fatty acids as is

fish " body "

> oils, in general.

:

What do you think the liver does?

Me again:

Well...I think it *processes* lipids before they are transported to cells

for storage ) I do think I saw a passage on the WAP web site recently that

mentioned that liver *contains* EFAs, but frankly, *everything else* I've

read on the subject does not list liver as a *good* source of EFAs. Not that

it doesn't *contain* any - just that it's not one of the richer sources.

Like other fats, EFAs are stored in adipose and other tissue around the body

(especially in cell membranes). Particularly rich sources are brain,

adrenal, eyes and testes.

>>>>I forget the numbers, but my bottle

of CLO has 550 for EPA and something close to that for DHA.

***Per...1000 mgs? Other? *Standardized* amounts for fish *body* oil are 180

mgs EPA and 120 mgs DHA per 1000 mgs oil. But as I mentioned in my previous

post, manufacturers manipulate the *naturally occurring* amounts in the oils

to obtain these numbers. I use a product (Natural Factors) that doesn't

manipulate the naturally occurring amounts, and the amounts are actually

quite a bit lower than the standardized ones. Interestingly, my fish body

oil is obtained from pressing the *heads* of Alaskan salmon, and therefore

I'd think it would contain pretty high levels of DHA particularly, which

occurs in high levels in the brain. Maybe salmon just have pea brains!

According to Enig in " Know Your Fats " CLO contains 7% EPA and DHA both. So

that would be about 142 mgs each per 1000 mgs oil, so......drumroll....if

she's correct, then so are you! There is a good amount of these EFAs in CLO,

IF she's not using figures from a CLO product that has been manipulated by

the manufacturer to contain these amounts. Which, come to think of it, I'm

NOT going to assume, actually.

>>>>Most

people are emphasizing the body oils because PC nutrition says that

vitamin A is toxic. But to play the common sense card, it was the

liver oil and not the body oils that were the traditional supplement.

***Weren't they used 'traditionally' for vit D content specifically? By

folks in Canada and other cold climates who didn't have much sun access in

the winter months?

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

I wrote re the liver:

" Well...I think it *processes* lipids before they are transported to cells

for storage ) "

I meant to say " ...before they are transported to cells for *use* since they

have many functions, and are not merely 'stored.'

For some reason, this just popped into my head at 3:45 a.m. this morning!

Must've been a slow night for dreams...

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Lupus is an autoimmune disease, where basically, the

immune system apparently cannot tell " self " from

" invader " and starts attacking body tissues. One area

is the joints, where it can cause arthritic

deterioration. Lupus is a more defined disease than

FM or Chronic Fatigue--it can be tested for and

diagnosed.

A friend of mine has it and was warned by his doctor

to avoid sun exposure. When he gets too much sun, his

symptoms get much worse. Lupus generally occurs in

women more often than men, and the rate is higher in

hispanics and those of african descent.

That is about all I know about it. My ex's cousin

also had Lupus, it had a lot of strange

symptoms--eventually her spleen ruptured as part of

it, and had to be removed--that was when they finally

diagnosed her with the disease.

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