Re: losing sweet tooth on NT

[Guest guest]

I am noticing this as well. Most of my sweet tooth seems to be nostalgic in

nature, but if I actually taste the food (ice cream, brownies, chocolate) I

don't want to continue eating it. It doesn't taste as good as I remember.

Some of it is psychological; for example, I have trouble eating potato chips

(we were at a volkswalk where they had some bowls of chips for the walkers,

and dd and I had missed lunch, so we grabbed a couple of handfuls) because as

my hand goes to my mouth my brain brings forward for review all that stuff in

NT about the unsaturated fats used to fry them...

~~Jean

In a message dated 4/18/2002 8:43:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

writes:

> Has anyone else, who is a diehard sweet tooth, noticed reduced cravings and

> tolerance for sweets since going more NT?

>

[Guest guest]

Suze,

Me Too!!! I can't really believe it, actually, because I had a MAJOR sugar

addiction--I really couldn't get through the day without chocolate. Now, I eat

sweets on occasion, but usually only a little bit. Last night I ate one

chocolate truffle and that was plenty (there's a large bag of them in my

freezer). My theory is that since I've increased my fat intake I just don't

crave things in the way I used to (this goes for potato chips too). I think

this is a sign that I'm feeding my body what it really craves: HEALTHY FAT.

[Guest guest]

> Has anyone else, who is a diehard sweet tooth, noticed reduced cravings

and

> tolerance for sweets since going more NT?

I'm not sure I qualify as a sweet tooth. My tastes are in that " intense

flavor " category meaning that I like things like chocolate, salt, coffee,

red wine, maple syrup, etc. However, I definitely do have a sweet tooth,

and it has been reduced since changing my diet. I still have a sweet tooth,

but I'm much more selective about what satisfies it. Ben and Jerry's

doens't stand a chance anymore, but some of the ice cream from some of our

local small batch ice cream shops still fits the bill just fine...in

particular cherry bordeaux (vanilla, red wine, and wine soaked cherries, I

often drizzle a couple teaspoons of shiraz, merlot or zinfandel on top too)

and " crema " (a flavor created by soaking espresso beans overnight in cream,

straining the beans back out and then making plain ice cream with the

resulting cream...it has the aroma of coffee with none of the tannins or

acidity).

Sorry if I just gave anyone a pre-lunch craving for ice cream! :-)

[Guest guest]

>>>Suze,

Me Too!!! I can't really believe it, actually, because I had a MAJOR sugar

addiction--I really couldn't get through the day without chocolate.

***Same here - chocolate's always been the most important sweet to me.

>>> Now, I eat sweets on occasion, but usually only a little bit. Last

night I ate one chocolate truffle and that was plenty (there's a large bag

of them in my freezer). My theory is that since I've increased my fat

intake I just don't crave things in the way I used to (this goes for potato

chips too). I think this is a sign that I'm feeding my body what it really

craves: HEALTHY FAT.

***Hmm...that would explain things for me, because my sweet cravings have

seemed to subside as I've increased my consumption of raw fats - primarily

raw milk, cheese and more recently raw egg yolks. I wonder if *that's* it -

a need for raw fat? It almost sounds too simple - does anyone know if this

could be so, and why we'd crave *sweets* when our body really needs raw fat?

Wow! Just had a chocolate flashback! Good chocolate used to be so important

to me that I *married* for a box of chocolates! Talk about a cheap dowry.

But, it was a really, REALLY good box of chocolates! OK, well I didn't

exactly marry for the chocolates, but years ago when I was driving a cab in

Philly, this Israeli cab driver kept trying to ask me out, and I had

absolutely no interest in him. So one day (actually my 26th birthday), I was

approaching the train station with my fare, and he was leaving the train

station with his fare. We were driving in opposite directions past each

other and when he saw me he laid on the horn and gestured for me to stop. So

we both stopped dead in the middle of the street and he leapt out of his cab

and came over and presented me with this box of chocolates and wished me a

happy birthday. I was really surprised (as were our fares who were sitting

in our cabs wondering what was going on), but it was the *best* chocolate

I'd had since my time in Germany. Now THAT got my attention. I finally

acquiesced to a date, and then we ended up marrying - and no, chocolate

wasn't really the reason - it was just the catalyst that started the events

that lead to the marriage. It was a bad marriage, though. So now that I

think about it, chocolate's brought me nothing but trouble!!

I think now that I've got some sense in my head (well some, anyway), and now

that my tastes are changing, I wouldn't be so impressed with a box of

expensive chocolates anymore. What *would* get my attention, and probably a

date, would be a slab of raw butter!!! *That's* precious as gold to me,

because I don't have any good sources of raw cow's milk yet (

I do have raw goat's milk, though, which I really love, but don't make

butter from due to its natural homogenization and pricyness.

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Hey Suez(just kidding)

After reading a thread on leaky gut syndrome I quit all wheat and wheat

products(very hard given we have and organic fresh ground commercial bakery on

the farm) I immediately lost five pounds (2 days) and don't care for chocolate

any more!

this is absolutely weird for me given every day I had some sort of chocolate

since I can remember and if I skipped a day I would eat triple the next day.

alot of my symptoms have gone may after quitting wheat but i tried a piece of

organic fresh ground raisin toast with butter today and immediately my nose

began to run.

So I will continue and yes i do eat an occasional chocolate but the thrill is

gone and i don't need it to get through the day.

I have also been sleeping better, and remembering my dreams, something that

hasn't happened for a long time, but boy I do miss bread, but they do say you

crave that you need least! it appears that chocolate is in that category, I do

hope to get back to bread someday, if not I'm going to sue Betty Crocker for

loss of eating pleasure due to the stuff I was fed when a kid....

Tim

Suze Fisher wrote:

> I received a box of good chocolates for my birthday last Saturday, and have

> eaten a few of the chocolates over the last few days. I didn't open the box

> when I first got it because I just didn't feel like it. But I just threw it

> away now, as I really don't feel like eating them, and my stomach is upset

> this morning. (I had a few after dinner last night, and am not sure if

> that's what upset my stomach.)

>

> This is VERY odd behaviour for me because I have had a lifelong sweet tooth.

> When I was a kid, saturday morning was my favorite time of the week because

> I went to the newspaper store with my dad, in what is now L.L. Bean's anchor

> store in Freeport, Me. (Only the upper floor was l.l. beans back then). That

> store had lots of penny candies and comic books - my two favorite things! So

> I spent my whole allowance (something like a quarter) on candy and comics.

>

> I've *always* craved sweets. But since going more NT (and I am by no means

> 'all out' NT), I find I am losing my sweet tooth. There is no other

> explanation for why I'd throw away a half eaten box of Wilbur's chocolates

> (except perhaps, the fact that I already ate the few fudge and caramel

> pieces, leaving mostly yucky maple or raspberry filled ones).

>

> Anyway, I got a box of the same chocolates last xmas, and enthusiastically

> ate it - even the maple and raspberry ones. 4 months of a more NTish diet,

> and I could care less about a box of chocolates. I also realized the other

> day that I can hardly get through a few bites of my favorite ben & jerry's

> ice cream (vanilla heath bar crunch) without it tasting too sicky sweet. I

> used to be able to polish off about 1/3 container without problem.

>

> Has anyone else, who is a diehard sweet tooth, noticed reduced cravings and

> tolerance for sweets since going more NT?

>

> Suze Fisher

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

> mailto:s.fisher22@...

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Whoops! Minor self-correction here. I wrote:

>>>>Wow! Just had a chocolate flashback! Good chocolate used to be so

important to me that I *married* for a box of chocolates! Talk about a cheap

dowry.

**This was a totally inaccurate analogy to a dowry, because a dowry is just

the opposite - when the *guy* gets the goods *along with* his bride.

Don't want to give the impression that ex-cabbies are *totally* uncultured

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

>> My theory is that since I've increased my fat

> intake I just don't crave things in the way I used to (this goes

for potato

> chips too). I think this is a sign that I'm feeding my body what

it really

> craves: HEALTHY FAT.

>

> ***Hmm...that would explain things for me, because my sweet

cravings have

> seemed to subside as I've increased my consumption of raw fats -

primarily

> raw milk, cheese and more recently raw egg yolks. I wonder if

*that's* it -

> a need for raw fat? It almost sounds too simple - does anyone know

if this

> could be so, and why we'd crave *sweets* when our body really needs

raw fat?

Just tossing out ideas, but all 'sweets' contain fructose except for

those with malt sugars. And fructose is not readily stored as

glycogen in the muscles as I'm sure you know. So instead it is

typically converted to triglycerides for fat storage. And of course

the body makes saturated fat. So its possible.

[Guest guest]

This isn't so strange, considering a (very) informal poll a friend of mine took

of her friends and acquaintances: If you had to make a choice, what would you

give up forever, sex or chocolate? Of all of her male friends, 100% said " no

brainer, chocolate. " The women usually had to think about it pretty hard and

about half settled on " sex. " I was in the no sex camp, but this was way before

NT ;-)!

Suze Wrote:

Good chocolate used to be so important

to me that I *married* for a box of chocolates!

[Guest guest]

>does anyone know if this

>could be so, and why we'd crave *sweets* when our body really needs raw

fat?

I don't *know* why, but I'm always open to blind speculation! ;-)

I'm unsure of the importance of truly raw fats, my wife and I seem to have

noticed many of the benefits everyone else has mentioned, but quite a bit of

our fat is not raw...including most of our dairy. However, it's possible

that a lack of good, quality fats causes your body to want to *make it's

own* saturated fats. If that's the case, sweets and breads are the best way

to make fat as many of us know. It might be something along the lines of

the highly controversial analysis that Sally Fallon made of white rice in

asian diets. Perhaps it's such a valued component of their diet because of

the need (and lack of) quality saturated fat. They can't get enough so

their bodies must make their own; for which purpose large quantities of

white rice serves admirably well. Of course, I question the analysis too,

because I think there's a world of difference between *describing* a

hypothetical phenomenon and assuming that the phenomenon is *how it should

be*.

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>Has anyone else, who is a diehard sweet tooth, noticed reduced cravings and

>tolerance for sweets since going more NT?

Yes, but it's more complicated than that. I think it's possible to

construct a high-carb and very sweet diet from NT, in which case you

probably wouldn't lose much if any of your sweet tooth. (I wouldn't advise

that, of course, but that's another story. <g>) However, I think a

lower-carb version is slightly more effective at reducing carb/sweet

cravings than a diet with the same macro composition (same percentages of

fat, protein, carb) but based on feedlot beef, factory dairy, etc. I can

only conjecture that it's because the fats on an NT diet are better, more

raw, and the EFAs are in better balance, but this is strictly based on my

experience, so I don't know how much it's worth.

-

[Guest guest]

-

>My theory is that since I've increased my fat intake I just don't crave

>things in the way I used to (this goes for potato chips too). I think

>this is a sign that I'm feeding my body what it really craves: HEALTHY FAT.

That's for sure. I'm a total carbaholic/sugarholic, but as long as I get

enough fat and keep my carb intake low enough, I don't have much at all in

the way of cravings.

-

[Guest guest]

Suze- " me three " . I am finally being relieved of my

most difficult challenge of sugar, in both its forms

of " sweets " and alcohol (like beer and wine). I've

discovered the best relief from these cravings through

NT by having plenty of fermented drinks on hand. In

fact I've combined three of these into an

extraordinary " cocktail " that I immensely enjoy. This

cocktail consists of about two parts kombucha, one

part beet kavas plus one part ginger ale. I'm so taken

with this I'm contemplating creating a small business

starting with this cocktail!

Chef Jemichel,

California

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>

> > I received a box of good chocolates for my birthday last Saturday,

and have

> > eaten a few of the chocolates over the last few days. I didn't

open the box

> > when I first got it because I just didn't feel like it. But I just

threw it

> > away now, as I really don't feel like eating them, and my stomach

is upset

> > this morning. (I had a few after dinner last night, and am not

sure if

> > that's what upset my stomach.)

> >

> > This is VERY odd behaviour for me because I have had a lifelong

sweet tooth.

> > When I was a kid, saturday morning was my favorite time of the

week because

> > I went to the newspaper store with my dad, in what is now L.L.

Bean's anchor

> > store in Freeport, Me. (Only the upper floor was l.l. beans back

then). That

> > store had lots of penny candies and comic books - my two favorite

things! So

> > I spent my whole allowance (something like a quarter) on candy and

comics.

> >

> > I've *always* craved sweets. But since going more NT (and I am by

no means

> > 'all out' NT), I find I am losing my sweet tooth. There is no

other

> > explanation for why I'd throw away a half eaten box of Wilbur's

chocolates

> > (except perhaps, the fact that I already ate the few fudge and

caramel

> > pieces, leaving mostly yucky maple or raspberry filled ones).

> >

> > Anyway, I got a box of the same chocolates last xmas, and

enthusiastically

> > ate it - even the maple and raspberry ones. 4 months of a more

NTish diet,

> > and I could care less about a box of chocolates. I also realized

the other

> > day that I can hardly get through a few bites of my favorite ben &

jerry's

> > ice cream (vanilla heath bar crunch) without it tasting too sicky

sweet. I

> > used to be able to polish off about 1/3 container without problem.

> >

> > Has anyone else, who is a diehard sweet tooth, noticed reduced

cravings and

> > tolerance for sweets since going more NT?

> >

> > Suze Fisher

> > Web Design & Development

> > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

> > mailto:s.fisher22@v...

> >

> >

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Somehow I don't think you folks are telling the

whole truth about giving up chocolates and bread. I drink raw whole

milk but most of the time it has homemade chocolate syrup in it. Some

days I drink a half gallon and don't eat much else. The only NT foods

keeping me off chocolate and homemade bread is eggs to some extent,

lacto fermented cabbage, liver and wheatgrass (IMO). Anyway I'm

listening very cautiously. Dennis

[Guest guest]

Tim:

At 11:39 AM 4/18/2002 -0500, you wrote:

>After reading a thread on leaky gut syndrome I quit all wheat and wheat

>products(very hard given we have and organic fresh ground commercial bakery on

>the farm) I immediately lost five pounds (2 days) and don't care for chocolate

>any more!

I have one theory about that (besides the obvious one about carbs and

insulin and calories). For a lot of people, when they eat wheat, their

upper intestine does an auto-immune reaction which results in the villi

flattening out and therefor not doing their job. I think ONE of the jobs of

the villi is to signal 'satiation' (i.e. " hey brain, a lot of really

nutritious food just came down here: stop eating already! " ). If this

reaction goes on for years, then the villi are permanently damaged, in

which case it's called " celiac " , but there's no name for it if you just

react (and no one knows what percent of the population has this problem,

because the only way you can tell if you have it is to put a camera down

your gut while you are eating wheat or other gluten containing products!).

Wheat contains a protein that is very similar to that on some viruses and

people, and some folks just have a problem identifying that protein.

A similar reaction can happen in folks who are sensitive to milk.

Since I'm VERY sensitive to gluten, I'm very conscious that just about ALL

products manufactured now have some amount of gluten in them. Which makes

me think how much of this chocolate addiction is really the result of

unsatisfied villi? Of course the same reaction could happen if you eat a

lot of empty calories, but it's difficult to differentiate, since most

empty calories in America are wheat calories. The Asians eat lots of

empty-calorie rice though, and don't seem to have our chocolate addiction.

But they don't eat much high-gluten wheat or dairy, and they seem well

adapted to rice.

Anyway, since I don't eat gluten I've noticed I have little craving for

sweets, chocolate, or large amounts of coffee. But I DO crave cream,

low-sugar homemade ice cream, (which formerly made me sick), wine, rare

steak, goat cheese and fresh-made coffee. (Boy , that Cherry Bordeaux

sure sounds good!).

Heidi Schuppenhauer

Trillium Custom Software Inc.

heidis@...

[Guest guest]

May be butter with the nose run. I had a few teaspoons last night of nature

made butter oil. We've had a 90 degree heat wave for the lastt two days and I

had butter oil on the counter. Have been fighting off a head/sinus thing all

week that everybody seems to have around here. Had used my homeopathic cold

tablets, garlic, herbal expectorant and sinus remedies to varying degrees of

relief. Within 10 minutes of taking the butter oil my ears popped, felt them

draining and my nose started to run. Was impressed. If anything grains have

always done the opposite with me. Noticed the change almost immediately

with my

first fat addition to my diet of coconut milk. Was on that

grain/sugar/chocolate roller coaster my whole life too.

Wanita

At 11:39 AM 4/18/02 -0500, you wrote:

I immediately lost five pounds (2 days) and don't care for chocolate

>any more!

>this is absolutely weird for me given every day I had some sort of chocolate

>since I can remember and if I skipped a day I would eat triple the next day.

>alot of my symptoms have gone may after quitting wheat but i tried a piece of

>organic fresh ground raisin toast with butter today and immediately my nose

>began to run.

>Tim

[Guest guest]

>>>>Hey Suez(just kidding)

***Cute, tom. (ha! just kidding back)

>>>>After reading a thread on leaky gut syndrome I quit all wheat and wheat

products(very hard given we have and organic fresh ground commercial bakery

on

the farm) I immediately lost five pounds (2 days) and don't care for

chocolate

any more!

this is absolutely weird for me given every day I had some sort of chocolate

since I can remember and if I skipped a day I would eat triple the next day.

alot of my symptoms have gone may after quitting wheat but i tried a piece

of

organic fresh ground raisin toast with butter today and immediately my nose

began to run.

***Why? Why did your nose begin to run? If you have leaky gut, or difficulty

digesting wheat, how would that trigger a runny nose? Is this a possible

allergic reaction?

>>>So I will continue and yes i do eat an occasional chocolate but the

thrill is

gone

****sigh...yes - that's exactly it - the thrill is gone.

>>>>and i don't need it to get through the day.

I have also been sleeping better, and remembering my dreams, something that

hasn't happened for a long time, but boy I do miss bread,

***Have you tried wheatless, gluten-less sprouted bread? That's what I've

been eating more of these days. I actually just finished a loaf of sourdough

spelt bread that I really enjoyed. I think the only ingredients were spelt,

water and salt. Hmmm...seems like something's missing...

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

> >>>>Hey Suez(just kidding)

>

> ***Cute, tom. (ha! just kidding back)

>

> >>>>

>

spelt,

> water and salt. Hmmm...seems like something's missing...

>

>

> Suze Fisher

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

> mailto:s.fisher22@v...

Ya the gluten, wheat,oil,starter. But really did it taste pretty good

and was it sourdough? Was it filling? What does something like that

cost per ounce? Dennis

[Guest guest]

> could be so, and why we'd crave *sweets* when our body really needs

raw fat?

Just a thought, but most sweets I know of (rich chocolate, good

cream-cheese danish) come packaged with tons of fat. And low-fat

Snackwells are NOT satisfying, bleah! We need the fat, we eat the

sweets, we get hooked on the sugar high, we crave the sugar so we won't

crash and the fat because our body really needs it. Maybe???

~ Carma ~

To be perpetually talking sense runs out the mind, as perpetually

ploughing and taking crops runs out the land. The mind must be manured,

and nonsense is very good for the purpose. ~ Boswell

Carma's Corner: http://www.users.qwest.net/~carmapaden/

[Guest guest]

At 07:58 PM 4/18/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>***Have you tried wheatless, gluten-less sprouted bread? That's what I've

>been eating more of these days. I actually just finished a loaf of sourdough

>spelt bread that I really enjoyed. I think the only ingredients were spelt,

>water and salt. Hmmm...seems like something's missing...

If it doesn't bother you, great -- but spelt is NOT gluten-less!

Heidi Schuppenhauer

Trillium Custom Software Inc.

heidis@...

[Guest guest]

> >After reading a thread on leaky gut syndrome I quit all wheat and

wheat

> >products(very hard given we have and organic fresh ground

commercial bakery on

> >the farm) I immediately lost five pounds (2 days) and don't care

for chocolate

> >any more!

>

> >>>>>>CUT>>>>>>>>>

> lot of empty calories, but it's difficult to differentiate, since

most

> empty calories in America are wheat calories.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>CUT>>>>>>>>>>>>

> Heidi Schuppenhauer

> Trillium Custom Software Inc.

> heidis@t...

Are you forgetting corn syrup, corn syrup solids, and high frustose

corn syrup here? IMO, they are America's empty calories. Dennis

[Guest guest]

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Clipped>>>>>>.

> with this I'm contemplating creating a small business

> starting with this cocktail!

> Chef Jemichel,

> California

>

> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Sounds good. I planted beets a few days ago and

am anxiously awaiting production of beet kvass. You'll probably have

quite a challenge keeping the cork in the bottle in Atlanta in the

summertime. What do you think your shelf life will be? Think you'll

get any lawsuits from whomever, with a new product like that.

Maybe you could put a worm in the bottle to show it's healthy

for ....... IMO, the fermented cabbage juice quenches thirst real

well and tastes good. I haven't made ginger ale yet.

Regards, Dennis Kemnitz

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

I think it would be called a " bride price " --in some trad. societies the

bridegroom pays the woman's family for taking her away.

----- Original Message -----

From: Suze Fisher

Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 12:47 PM

Subject: RE: losing sweet tooth on NT

Whoops! Minor self-correction here. I wrote:

>>>>Wow! Just had a chocolate flashback! Good chocolate used to be so

important to me that I *married* for a box of chocolates! Talk about a cheap

dowry.

**This was a totally inaccurate analogy to a dowry, because a dowry is just

the opposite - when the *guy* gets the goods *along with* his bride.

Don't want to give the impression that ex-cabbies are *totally* uncultured

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

> If it doesn't bother you, great -- but spelt is NOT gluten-less!

You beat me to it Heidi!

I'd just add the following for anyone who isn't entirely familiar with which

grains are gluten grains:

If it looks anything like wheat (shape of the grain) and it's not rice, it's

probably not gluten-free.

If you can make a loaf of bread out it without using gums or eggs to hold

the thing together, it's probably not gluten-free.

The entire wheat family includes at least: wheat, rye, barley, spelt and

kamut. I didn't miss any did I? Oats are not technically a gluten grain,

but they supposedly are very often significantly contaminated due to being

processed alongside wheat products...

[Guest guest]

> And pretty much any carbonated beverage, although not soda. I just love

> bubbles, don't know why. So, I can say NT is strongly affecting my sweet

> cravings, but not my others, at least not yet.

Even animals will rarely pass up fermented foods. Drunk birds from

fermenting berries aren't unheard of, and I've personally seen cows drunk

from drinking the runoff from a pile of sweetcorn silage.

mmmmm beeer.... ~(_8^(|)

[Guest guest]

> And pretty much any carbonated beverage, although not soda. I just love

> bubbles, don't know why. So, I can say NT is strongly affecting my sweet

> cravings, but not my others, at least not yet.

>>>>>Even animals will rarely pass up fermented foods. Drunk birds from

fermenting berries aren't unheard of, and I've personally seen cows drunk

from drinking the runoff from a pile of sweetcorn silage.

mmmmm beeer....

***Yikes! You read between the lines...yes, I LOVE beer! I confess! (except

that which tastes like urine, read: american beer)

>>>> ~(_8^(|)

***is it my imagination, or is that a sideways homer simpson?

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...