Guest guest Posted April 10, 2002 Report Share Posted April 10, 2002 >Some folks have said bakers yeast contributes to candida, but if the >yeast is killed during baking Yeast is not completely destroyed during baking. My aunt had always said we should not eat fresh baked bread and wait a few days before eating because the yeast is still very active. Grace, a Augustine I wish you enough sun to keep your attitude bright. I wish you enough rain to appreciate the sun more. I wish you enough happiness to keep your spirit alive. I wish you enough pain so that the smallest joys in life appear much bigger. I wish you enough gain to satisfy your wanting. I wish you enough loss to appreciate all that you possess. I wish you enough ''Hello's " to get you through the final goodbye. --anonymous ----- Original Message ----- From: Carmen Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 1:28 PM Subject: types of leaven Snip <<<< The yeast-free variety of bread is also more nutritious. The long proofing time breaks down the bran of the grain, releasing valuable minerals which are dissolved in the rich dough, hence producing a healthful and tasty bread. >>>>>> I still have a hard time understanding this sourdough thing vs. bakers yeast. I read your post and correct me if I'm wrong, but is there anything wrong with the yeast in and of itself? In the snip above for example, the problem with bakers yeast is, it doesn't allow enough time for the phytates to be broken down thus releasing the minerals. regardless of whether it's sourdough or bakers yeast, how can dead yeast cause a problem? Or be of any benefit for that matter? We drink raw milk vs. pasteurized to keep the organisms alive for our benefit. The only way to keep the bread organisms alive would be to eat raw dough. I bake my bread at 350 deg for at about thirty minutes. I'm sure it's dead as a doornail. Snip <<<<150 years ago, microbiological science isolated and cultured one particular yeast, the special Saccharamyces cerevisae, commonly known as bakers yeast. >>> Exactly how is this bakers yeast " unnatural " ? If we've isolated particular strains of bacteria for culturing milk (yogurt for example), what's wrong with isolating a particular type of yeast and using it? How are these little critters in bakers yeast actually different than the ones found in sourdough? I am wondering if it's the QUANTITY of yeast that's added to dough that's the problem, not the actual physical makeup of the yeast?? Carmen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2002 Report Share Posted April 11, 2002 >Carmen wrote: > > Exactly how is this bakers yeast " unnatural " ? If we've isolated >particular strains of bacteria for culturing milk (yogurt for example), >what's wrong with isolating a particular type of yeast and using it? How are >these little critters in bakers yeast actually different than the ones found >in sourdough? I am wondering if it's the QUANTITY of yeast that's added to >dough that's the problem, not the actual physical makeup of the yeast?? All good questions! I would like to know the bacteria and yeast makeup of a typical sourdough starter. My theory: the difference is that with SD one gets more diverse kinds of yeast, plus lactobacilli, and that those produce the healthy effects. One can make yogurt from pure L. bulgaricus, but I've been noticing yogurts with 4 or 5 kinds of critters in. -- Quick www.en.com/users/jaquick " Representative government -- where many crooks get to vote one crook into office. " --ny Hart in the comic strip " B.C. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2002 Report Share Posted April 11, 2002 > > > > Exactly how is this bakers yeast " unnatural " ? If we've isolated > >particular strains of bacteria for culturing milk (yogurt for example), > >what's wrong with isolating a particular type of yeast and using it? How are > >these little critters in bakers yeast actually different than the ones found > >in sourdough? I am wondering if it's the QUANTITY of yeast that's added to > >dough that's the problem, not the actual physical makeup of the yeast?? > > All good questions! I would like to know the bacteria and yeast > makeup of a typical sourdough starter. My theory: the difference is > that with SD one gets more diverse kinds of yeast, plus lactobacilli, > and that those produce the healthy effects. One can make yogurt from > pure L. bulgaricus, but I've been noticing yogurts with 4 or 5 kinds > of critters in. > -- > Quick > www.en.com/users/jaquick > " Representative government -- where many crooks get to vote > one crook into office. " --ny Hart in the comic strip " B.C. " >>>>>>>>>The company that uses L. reuteri has a patent on their " bug " . Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2002 Report Share Posted April 11, 2002 > > > >>>>>>snipped>>>>>>>>>>>>> > what's wrong with isolating a particular type of yeast and using it? How are > these little critters in bakers yeast actually different than the ones found > in sourdough? I am wondering if it's the QUANTITY of yeast that's added to > dough that's the problem, not the actual physical makeup of the yeast?? > > Carmen > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Will the real microbiologist stand up and answer Carmen's questions? Regards, Dennis > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2002 Report Share Posted April 11, 2002 If anyone, like myself, finds themselves unable to produce " homemade everything " all the time even using NT, check out this source for TOTALLY yeast-free, ready-made bread. It is: Pacific Bakery www.pacificbakery.com Teshuah ----- Original Message ----- From: Carmen Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 1:28 PM Subject: types of leaven Snip <<<< The yeast-free variety of bread is also more nutritious. The long proofing time breaks down the bran of the grain, releasing valuable minerals which are dissolved in the rich dough, hence producing a healthful and tasty bread. >>>>>> I still have a hard time understanding this sourdough thing vs. bakers yeast. I read your post and correct me if I'm wrong, but is there anything wrong with the yeast in and of itself? In the snip above for example, the problem with bakers yeast is, it doesn't allow enough time for the phytates to be broken down thus releasing the minerals. Some folks have said bakers yeast contributes to candida, but if the yeast is killed during baking regardless of whether it's sourdough or bakers yeast, how can dead yeast cause a problem? Or be of any benefit for that matter? We drink raw milk vs. pasteurized to keep the organisms alive for our benefit. The only way to keep the bread organisms alive would be to eat raw dough. I bake my bread at 350 deg for at about thirty minutes. I'm sure it's dead as a doornail. Snip <<<<150 years ago, microbiological science isolated and cultured one particular yeast, the special Saccharamyces cerevisae, commonly known as bakers yeast. >>> Exactly how is this bakers yeast " unnatural " ? If we've isolated particular strains of bacteria for culturing milk (yogurt for example), what's wrong with isolating a particular type of yeast and using it? How are these little critters in bakers yeast actually different than the ones found in sourdough? I am wondering if it's the QUANTITY of yeast that's added to dough that's the problem, not the actual physical makeup of the yeast?? Carmen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2002 Report Share Posted April 11, 2002 <<<<<Yeast is not completely destroyed during baking. My aunt had always said we should not eat fresh baked bread and wait a few days before eating because the yeast is still very active. > Grace, > a Augustine>>>> What? No, hot buttered rolls straight from the oven? How awfull! Can anyone tell I'm a carb lover? Seriously, with ALL due respect to your aunt I don't see how. If we know that pastuerizing milk at MUCH lower temps destroys bacteria, how would bacteria survive baking temps of 350 deg F in our ovens? If the yeast were still very much active after baking, wouldn't they continue to eat and release gas and break up the cooked gluten and make our loaves crumble? Or some other awful senario? Why would they even eventually die (presuming that they didn't die during baking)? Wouldn't they just go dormant after running out of food instead of dying? I think yeast is fairly temp sensative. E.g. I know from following older recipes that scalded milk is often called for in bread recipes. You must allow the milk to cool before adding the yeast in order to not kill the yeast and up with a failed batch of bread. I think it's an interesting question. I'd like know for sure if the yeast is dead or not when we eat the bread. If it really is dead, then what difference does it make how we make our bread rise as long as we've dealt with the phytate issue? Carmen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2002 Report Share Posted April 11, 2002 Remember that just because your oven registers 350 degrees, the internal temp of what your are making is not necessarily at that temp. The water in what ever you are making takes a lot of energy/time to change temp. Think of your Turkey and stuffing cooked together and how important it is to actually CHECK with a thermometer... of course this assumes you want it dead through and through :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: zinger29625 Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 12:07 PM Subject: Re: types of leaven <<<<<Yeast is not completely destroyed during baking. My aunt had always said we should not eat fresh baked bread and wait a few days before eating because the yeast is still very active. > Grace, > a Augustine>>>> What? No, hot buttered rolls straight from the oven? How awfull! Can anyone tell I'm a carb lover? Seriously, with ALL due respect to your aunt I don't see how. If we know that pastuerizing milk at MUCH lower temps destroys bacteria, how would bacteria survive baking temps of 350 deg F in our ovens? If the yeast were still very much active after baking, wouldn't they continue to eat and release gas and break up the cooked gluten and make our loaves crumble? Or some other awful senario? Why would they even eventually die (presuming that they didn't die during baking)? Wouldn't they just go dormant after running out of food instead of dying? I think yeast is fairly temp sensative. E.g. I know from following older recipes that scalded milk is often called for in bread recipes. You must allow the milk to cool before adding the yeast in order to not kill the yeast and up with a failed batch of bread. I think it's an interesting question. I'd like know for sure if the yeast is dead or not when we eat the bread. If it really is dead, then what difference does it make how we make our bread rise as long as we've dealt with the phytate issue? Carmen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2002 Report Share Posted April 11, 2002 Maybe Sally could be asked about bakers yeast and sourdough... I remember she had touched on this topic one Acres conference, but do not remember the disadvantages to bakers yeast. I do remember though that all the bacteria is not killed either because the bacteria continues to work on the bread even after it is baked and sourdough breads will sour further over a week's time. Grace, a Augustine I wish you enough sun to keep your attitude bright. I wish you enough rain to appreciate the sun more. I wish you enough happiness to keep your spirit alive. I wish you enough pain so that the smallest joys in life appear much bigger. I wish you enough gain to satisfy your wanting. I wish you enough loss to appreciate all that you possess. I wish you enough ''Hello's " to get you through the final goodbye. --anonymous ----- Original Message ----- From: zinger29625 Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 11:07 AM Subject: Re: types of leaven <<<<<Yeast is not completely destroyed during baking. My aunt had always said we should not eat fresh baked bread and wait a few days before eating because the yeast is still very active. > Grace, > a Augustine>>>> What? No, hot buttered rolls straight from the oven? How awfull! Can anyone tell I'm a carb lover? Seriously, with ALL due respect to your aunt I don't see how. If we know that pastuerizing milk at MUCH lower temps destroys bacteria, how would bacteria survive baking temps of 350 deg F in our ovens? If the yeast were still very much active after baking, wouldn't they continue to eat and release gas and break up the cooked gluten and make our loaves crumble? Or some other awful senario? Why would they even eventually die (presuming that they didn't die during baking)? Wouldn't they just go dormant after running out of food instead of dying? I think yeast is fairly temp sensative. E.g. I know from following older recipes that scalded milk is often called for in bread recipes. You must allow the milk to cool before adding the yeast in order to not kill the yeast and up with a failed batch of bread. I think it's an interesting question. I'd like know for sure if the yeast is dead or not when we eat the bread. If it really is dead, then what difference does it make how we make our bread rise as long as we've dealt with the phytate issue? Carmen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2002 Report Share Posted April 12, 2002 > Remember that just because your oven registers 350 degrees, the internal temp of what your are making is not necessarily at that temp. The water in what ever you are making takes a lot of energy/time to change temp. > > Think of your Turkey and stuffing cooked together and how important it is to actually CHECK with a thermometer... of course this assumes you want it dead through and through :-) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: zinger29625 > @y... > Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 12:07 PM > Subject: Re: types of leaven > > > <<<<<Yeast is not completely destroyed during baking. My aunt had > always said we should not eat fresh baked bread and wait a few days > before eating because the yeast is still very active. > > Grace, > > a Augustine>>>> > > What? No, hot buttered rolls straight from the oven? How awfull! Can > anyone tell I'm a carb lover? > Seriously, with ALL due respect to your aunt I don't see how. If we > know that pastuerizing milk at MUCH lower temps destroys bacteria, > how would bacteria survive baking temps of 350 deg F in our ovens? If > the yeast were still very much active after baking, wouldn't they > continue to eat and release gas and break up the cooked gluten and > make our loaves crumble? Or some other awful senario? Why would they > even eventually die (presuming that they didn't die during baking)? > Wouldn't they just go dormant after running out of food instead of > dying? > I think yeast is fairly temp sensative. E.g. I know from following > older recipes that scalded milk is often called for in bread recipes. > You must allow the milk to cool before adding the yeast in order to > not kill the yeast and up with a failed batch of bread. > I think it's an interesting question. I'd like know for sure if the > yeast is dead or not when we eat the bread. If it really is dead, > then what difference does it make how we make our bread rise as long > as we've dealt with the phytate issue? > Carmen > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Carmen, you pose a tough question. I've baked a lot of yeast leavened products and heard the accusations that yeast from bread can cause people dietary problems and with that in mind, I kept thinking the bread came out of the oven sterile. Now I'm thinking, all the bacteria are destroyed during oven baking while some yeasts must go into a dormant vegetative state. IMO, the acid formed in sourdough breads, probably, mainly, from the bacteria helps the sourdough bread " keep " longer and definitely develops flavor. Anyone know exactly how long items are left in an autoclave to sterilize? I don't remember but it seems like 20 min. at 250F. This may help us back into the answer, somewhat anyway. " Yeastie beasties " as microbiologists call them are quite different than bacteria. Probably not much help but hopefully some help. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2002 Report Share Posted April 12, 2002 >>>>Anyone know exactly how long items are left in an autoclave to sterilize? I don't remember but it seems like 20 min. at 250F. ***Well, when you said 20 minutes, that kinda rang a bell. In a time long ago and a place far away I used to be married, and we owned a tattoo studio. We used the autoclave to sterilze the tattoo guns (not the needles - we discarded those after each use!). Now, no one was going to *eat* the guns, but the point was to sterilize thoroughly so no koodees were passed among customers, so it may be comparable. But I don't recall the temp - half an equation won't do you much good, I guess... Suze Fisher Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2002 Report Share Posted April 12, 2002 Here is a link to a bakery that bakes completely yeast-free breads. Found out it is cheaper to get this from a local health food store, however, due to shipping costs to my location. It is: Pacific Bakery: Yeast Free www.pacificbakery.com Tesh ----- Original Message ----- From: a Augustine Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 1:53 PM Subject: Re: Re: types of leaven Maybe Sally could be asked about bakers yeast and sourdough... I remember she had touched on this topic one Acres conference, but do not remember the disadvantages to bakers yeast. I do remember though that all the bacteria is not killed either because the bacteria continues to work on the bread even after it is baked and sourdough breads will sour further over a week's time. Grace, a Augustine I wish you enough sun to keep your attitude bright. I wish you enough rain to appreciate the sun more. I wish you enough happiness to keep your spirit alive. I wish you enough pain so that the smallest joys in life appear much bigger. I wish you enough gain to satisfy your wanting. I wish you enough loss to appreciate all that you possess. I wish you enough ''Hello's " to get you through the final goodbye. --anonymous ----- Original Message ----- From: zinger29625 Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 11:07 AM Subject: Re: types of leaven <<<<<Yeast is not completely destroyed during baking. My aunt had always said we should not eat fresh baked bread and wait a few days before eating because the yeast is still very active. > Grace, > a Augustine>>>> What? No, hot buttered rolls straight from the oven? How awfull! Can anyone tell I'm a carb lover? Seriously, with ALL due respect to your aunt I don't see how. If we know that pastuerizing milk at MUCH lower temps destroys bacteria, how would bacteria survive baking temps of 350 deg F in our ovens? If the yeast were still very much active after baking, wouldn't they continue to eat and release gas and break up the cooked gluten and make our loaves crumble? Or some other awful senario? Why would they even eventually die (presuming that they didn't die during baking)? Wouldn't they just go dormant after running out of food instead of dying? I think yeast is fairly temp sensative. E.g. I know from following older recipes that scalded milk is often called for in bread recipes. You must allow the milk to cool before adding the yeast in order to not kill the yeast and up with a failed batch of bread. I think it's an interesting question. I'd like know for sure if the yeast is dead or not when we eat the bread. If it really is dead, then what difference does it make how we make our bread rise as long as we've dealt with the phytate issue? Carmen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2002 Report Share Posted April 13, 2002 I researched this one time and here's what I wrote down. " Yeast are single-celled organisms that can multiply at extremely rapid rates, doubling in number in two hours. Yeast is rich in many basic nutrients, such as the B vitamins (except for vitamin B12), sixteen amino acids, and at least fourteen different minerals...There are various media on which yeast may be grown. Brewer's yeast, also known as nutritional yeast, is grown on hops, a bitter herb that is also used as an ingredient in beer...LIVE BAKER's YEAST SHOULD BE AVOIDED. Live yeast cells deplete the body of B vitamins and other nutrients. In brewers (nutritional) yeast, these live cells are destroyed, leaving the beneficial nutrients behind. " I can't remember the exact source of this info. I'm thinking it was Prescription for Nutritional Healing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2002 Report Share Posted April 13, 2002 > I researched this one time and here's what I wrote down. " Yeast are > single-celled organisms that can multiply at extremely rapid rates, doubling > in number in two hours. Yeast is rich in many basic nutrients, such as the B > vitamins (except for vitamin B12), sixteen amino acids, and at least fourteen > different minerals...There are various media on which yeast may be grown. > Brewer's yeast, also known as nutritional yeast, is grown on hops, a bitter > herb that is also used as an ingredient in beer...LIVE BAKER's YEAST SHOULD > BE AVOIDED. Live yeast cells deplete the body of B vitamins and other > nutrients. In brewers (nutritional) yeast, these live cells are destroyed, > leaving the beneficial nutrients behind. " I can't remember the exact source > of this info. I'm thinking it was Prescription for Nutritional Healing. > >>>>>>>Why not make beer batter bread for nutritional yeast. Anyone ever tried it? I've seen recipes. Anyone here know what happens to yeast during baking in the oven at 375F for 25 minutes? Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2002 Report Share Posted April 13, 2002 >>>>Brewer's yeast, also known as nutritional yeast, is grown on hops, a bitter herb that is also used as an ingredient in beer ***Wait a minute...I thought that Brewer's yeast and nutritional yeast are two different things. My understanding is that *torula* and *nutritional* yeast are the same, and brewer's yeast is different. I've got some nutritional yeast here, and thought I'd had brewer's yeast sometime in the past, and thought the brewer's was a different color/consistency than these yellow flakes. anyone know...? Suze Fisher Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2002 Report Share Posted April 13, 2002 > >>>>Brewer's yeast, also known as nutritional yeast, is grown on hops, a > bitter > herb that is also used as an ingredient in beer > > ***Wait a minute...I thought that Brewer's yeast and nutritional yeast are > two different things. My understanding is that *torula* and *nutritional* > yeast are the same, and brewer's yeast is different. I've got some > nutritional yeast here, and thought I'd had brewer's yeast sometime in the > past, and thought the brewer's was a different color/consistency than these > yellow flakes. > > anyone know...? > > Suze Fisher Its probably better not to get too wrapped up in names here. You can determine what your yeast is grown on if you read the label or ask the company. At the turn of the 20th century, live baking yeast was recommended by many as a nutritional supplement. It as taken in warm water on an empty stomach. I've done this and it is very refreshing. I believe someone mentioned Bieler recommending this for " toxic bile. " As people (as they do) began to disregard the " on an empty stomach " caveat, digestive upset became a problem (yeast growing too much in the gut). Thereafter, brewers yeast, a dead yeast byproduct from bear brewing was recommended. Unfortunately, this proved to be quite bitter (hops?). Most " nutritional " yeast now has been grown on beets or molasses specifically for consumption as a food. Labs happens to call theirs " brewers " yeast, and it does look and taste different, but not bitter and it's not grown on hops/malt. I would imagine that the differences in taste, texture, and appearance arise from culture subspecies, substrate (what it's grown on) growing conditions and final processing. Portland, OR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2002 Report Share Posted April 14, 2002 At 07:52 AM 4/13/2002 -0400, you wrote: > >>>>Brewer's yeast, also known as nutritional yeast, is grown on hops, a >bitter >herb that is also used as an ingredient in beer > >***Wait a minute...I thought that Brewer's yeast and nutritional yeast are >two different things. My understanding is that *torula* and *nutritional* >yeast are the same, and brewer's yeast is different. I've got some >nutritional yeast here, and thought I'd had brewer's yeast sometime in the >past, and thought the brewer's was a different color/consistency than these >yellow flakes. > >anyone know...? > >Suze Fisher >Web Design & Development Having made many batches of beer ... I can say brewer's yeast that is normally sold is the stuff left at the bottom of the fermenter after the beer is poured off. It is (mostly) dead yeast that has fed on the beer-stuff, which consists mostly of malt, with hops and roasted barley and other things added for flavoring. The yeast gets the flavor too, so it tastes like hops (bitter!). Some companies make " brewer's yeast " specially for consumption, and just grow it on malt. The yeast can grow on any sugar though (malt being the commonest sugar for yeast to digest: table sugar works fine too though, and corn sugar. Malt is the most expensive, but considered the most flavorful). The " yellow flakes " I've had, and they are grown just for consumption, and they DO taste better! I can't eat either one though, now, because they both are grown on barley. As for " breed " of yeast, there are a lot of different strains used even JUST for beer and wine, they all have their own properties. Nutritionally I'd imagine they are fairly similar, depending on how many minerals etc. are in the growing medium. If they are grown on cane sugar, there probably aren't as many nutrients. I'd guess they heat the yeast to dry it, which probably kills it unless they are VERY careful (and they have no reason to want it " live " when packaged!). Heidi Schuppenhauer Trillium Custom Software Inc. heidis@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2002 Report Share Posted April 15, 2002 > ***Wait a minute...I thought that Brewer's yeast and nutritional yeast are > two different things. My understanding is that *torula* and *nutritional* > yeast are the same, and brewer's yeast is different. I've got some > nutritional yeast here, and thought I'd had brewer's yeast sometime in the > past, and thought the brewer's was a different color/consistency than these > yellow flakes. Depends on who you ask. Brewer's Yeast appears to have attained the status of generic term. Many yeast manufacturers differentiate their product by specifying that their product is NOT brewer's yeast which they claim is a by-product of the brewing industry. FWIW, I have purchased yeasts which call themselves brewer's yeast and were grown on sugar beet as the medium (i.e. not a brewing by-product). The flakier the source, the more severe the claims get in my experience. The product literature for Solid Gold brand dog food is a perfect example of that, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2002 Report Share Posted April 15, 2002 <<< Remember that just because your oven registers 350 degrees, the internal temp of what your are making is not necessarily at that temp. The water in what ever you are making takes a lot of energy/time to change temp. Think of your Turkey and stuffing cooked together and how important it is to actually CHECK with a thermometer... of course this assumes you want it dead through and through :-) >>>> Yup, that's true. I checked my King Arthur Baker's Catalog. The internal temp of " done " bread is between 190 deg and 200 deg Fahrenheit. Carmen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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