Guest guest Posted April 10, 2002 Report Share Posted April 10, 2002 In a message dated 4/10/02 7:31:05 AM Central Daylight Time, mclcdcmcmc@... writes: > Hi folks, > I'm halfway through reading " Fast Food Nation " .....very scary. Anyhow, I > got the impression there that meat can pick up the E. Coli bug in the > slaughterhouse. So is it true that even if your animal was totally grass > fed it can still become infected if it is slaughtered at a large packing > house that slaughters non-grass fed beef as well? If so, do we need to > find out where places like grassland beef are having their animals > butchered? Perhaps even a small meat packer could pass on E. Coli if he > slaughters grain fed animals as well???? Is this a real concern, or am I > just getting paranoid?? > > C. > > > It is a concern. If you grass feed your animals try to take them to a small slaughter house. It is your safest bet. 'Course, we are a small slaughter house. <G> My take on it is that if the folks working there are the owners you have a better chance of getting back good meat. If they are working for $8 an hour do you think they really care? Belinda LaBelle Acres www.labelleacres.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2002 Report Share Posted April 10, 2002 It is my understanding that e-coli is a natural accuring bacteria in bovine ruminants(cows) grain feed cows have a greater number of these bacteria at slaughter time, but proper aging 10 to 14 days ELIMINATES e-coli. You will only get this hanging time at a smaller processor. Yes grass feed beef have e-coli just a smaller amount of it, large processing companies(350 an hour) breed the stronger e-colis like 157h7 because of the sped up lines and spashing around of the stomach materials in the process and they only hang(if at all) 24 hours. Thats where the mass contamination comes in. Tim Conway wrote: > Hi folks, > I'm halfway through reading " Fast Food Nation " .....very scary. Anyhow, I got the impression there that meat can pick up the E. Coli bug in the slaughterhouse. So is it true that even if your animal was totally grass fed it can still become infected if it is slaughtered at a large packing house that slaughters non-grass fed beef as well? If so, do we need to find out where places like grassland beef are having their animals butchered? Perhaps even a small meat packer could pass on E. Coli if he slaughters grain fed animals as well???? Is this a real concern, or am I just getting paranoid?? > > C. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: kelly bruns > > Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 10:50 AM > Subject: Re: grassfed longhorn beef > > Hi > My personal feeling is that unless you know what the liver of the critter that > produced your organic steak looked like I would be concerned. There are large > organic feedlots out there. > > > Kroyer wrote: > > > > I'm not sure why people are against " grain finishing " though. I can see > > the > > > problem if it is overdone, but Sally Fallon's take on it was that it was > > > mimicking the natural fattening process that ruminants go through in the > > > fall, when the grass goes to seed and they get fatter. > > > > I respectfully disagree with Sally on this point. First, grain finishing > > rarely involves anything close to the ratio of grain to forage that is > > available to the grazing animals in the wild. The type of seed isn't even > > the same. Wild grass seed simply doesn't have the massive starchy endosperm > > like modern wheat, oats or corn. Secondly, I'm a bit concerned about the > > e.coli implications of any grain finishing. We know that grain in the diet > > radically increases the amount of dangerous e.coli. > > > > However, if I'm buying an organic steak at the co-op, I'm not terribly > > concerned about it being grain finished for the following reasons: it came > > from a small local farm that isn't likely to use a confinement lot approach, > > the cost of organic grain makes it unlikely that they would feed significant > > quantities of grain for very long, and I'm quite certain that it was grazed > > up until the final finishing period...unlike most large-producer commercial > > beef. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2002 Report Share Posted April 10, 2002 At 09:38 AM 4/10/02 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 4/10/02 7:31:05 AM Central Daylight Time, >mclcdcmcmc@... writes: > > >> Hi folks, >> I'm halfway through reading " Fast Food Nation " .....very scary. Anyhow, I >> got the impression there that meat can pick up the E. Coli bug in the >> slaughterhouse. So is it true that even if your animal was totally grass >> fed it can still become infected if it is slaughtered at a large packing >> house that slaughters non-grass fed beef as well? If so, do we need to >> find out where places like grassland beef are having their animals >> butchered? Perhaps even a small meat packer could pass on E. Coli if he >> slaughters grain fed animals as well???? Is this a real concern, or am I >> just getting paranoid?? >> >> C. I'm a few chapters into the same book and haven't got this far yet. The NY Times articles said they now tie off the intestine. E coli can be picked up by mixing meats from various cattle as they do in ground beef. Only takes one just like a little slip of the knife can contaminate an entire beef. Whats needed is small operations with professionals just like Belinda said. Unfortunately they put so many of them out of business 30 years ago on outwardly cleanliness issues like tile and stainless steel. My Dad for one. Grassfed reduces extremely the e coli content but even we have e coli in our stomachs. All in all you're safer with anything that isn't raised in a feedlot or processed in a meat packing plant. People have to have jobs, consumers safe food and therefore the responsibilty lies with who brings it from the farmer to you. Its part of the deal they got when they chose to make the decisions for all the rest. Wanita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2002 Report Share Posted April 10, 2002 At 08:36 AM 4/10/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >It is my understanding that e-coli is a natural accuring bacteria in >bovine ruminants(cows) grain feed cows have a greater number of these >bacteria at slaughter time, but proper aging 10 to 14 days ELIMINATES e-coli. >You will only get this hanging time at a smaller processor. >Yes grass feed beef have e-coli just a smaller amount of it, large >processing companies(350 an hour) breed the stronger e-colis like 157h7 >because of the sped up lines and spashing around of the stomach materials >in the process and they only hang(if at all) 24 hours. Thats where the >mass contamination comes in. >Tim All ruminants have (and have always had) e-coli. Humans have e-coli too, several different species. When you get some e-coli that you don't normally have, then you get sick (which is what " traveller's diarrhea " is all about: once you get used to the local e-coli you'll probably be ok). There is one " superbug " e-coli that is causing the current concern: it is one specific breed. It mainly (possibly only) occurs in beef that is fed a whole lot of grain. The beef I get, at least, is fed mainly in the pasture and then fed (probably hay) in a corral for a week or two, then slaughtered and dressed onsite, and hung for a couple of weeks. (a lot of people around here grow their own beef, then call the butcher, and they dress the beef in the field. I'd imagine if they aren't careful it can still get contaminated, but it's cleaner than a slaughterhouse and all that sunshine probably sterilizes a lot). My cost for the beef is about $2.00/lb, sometimes $2.50. Regular beef is somewhat cheaper. Really, if you can, going bulk is the way to go. I asked a doctor about the e-coli question, wondering whether my kids should watch out for fresh manure on our garden, and his take was that out of the millions of people exposed in the last outbreaks, only 50 or so people got sick, and those mostly kids. So even though the bug is bad, it seems to not affect people with healthy immune systems and/or lots of good bugs in their guts. The doctor said he grew up on a farm himself, and they were always up to their ankles in dung, and never got sick. My general impression is that quite likely, in the long run, it's better to get exposed to a bunch of different germs, and in the long run you will be healthier (though you may get sick once or twice in the process!). Ditto for raw milk. Some people DO get sick off it, mainly from listeria, it seems, but the people who really get sick are the ones with weak immune systems. Probably if you drink raw milk a lot, you DO get some listeria, and it probably doesn't affect you because you have so many other healthy bacteria in your gut that the listeria doesn't stand a chance. Most of the people I've known who really got sick from food poisoning had also been recently on antibiotics, BTW. So I think the gut flora have a lot to do with the issue. Heidi Schuppenhauer Trillium Custom Software Inc. heidis@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2002 Report Share Posted April 11, 2002 > > > > I'm not sure why people are against " grain finishing " though. I can see > > the > > > problem if it is overdone, but Sally Fallon's take on it was that it was > > > mimicking the natural fattening process that ruminants go through in the > > > fall, when the grass goes to seed and they get fatter. > > > > I respectfully disagree with Sally on this point. First, grain finishing > > rarely involves anything close to the ratio of grain to forage that is > > available to the grazing animals in the wild. The type of seed isn't even > > the same. Wild grass seed simply doesn't have the massive starchy endosperm > > like modern wheat, oats or corn. Secondly, I'm a bit concerned about the > > e.coli implications of any grain finishing. We know that grain in the diet > > radically increases the amount of dangerous e.coli. > > > > However, if I'm buying an organic steak at the co-op, I'm not terribly > > concerned about it being grain finished for the following reasons: it came > > from a small local farm that isn't likely to use a confinement lot approach, > > the cost of organic grain makes it unlikely that they would feed significant > > quantities of grain for very long, and I'm quite certain that it was grazed > > up until the final finishing period...unlike most large-producer commercial > > beef. > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Possibly the biggest problem of E coli in foods is due to surface contamination during and after processing. Therefore it is definitely a sanitation concern. And when the E coil are in the digestive system everything is ok, so to speak. They're (E coli) in one of their preferred climates. Apparently they like the grain in the digestive system of the bovine even better. But we have no apparent problem at this point. The animal's eating and gaining weight where ever it is (on the range or in the feedlot). But at slaughter the E coli probably splash everywhere. I imagine the lines are continually rinsed nowadays. However, the sanitation problem amplifies IF you have, let's guess, billions of bugs per gram of meat instead of thousands, splashing everywhere. I don't see how hanging the beef kills many E coli, however the washing and chilling of the carcass does take them out of one of their " preferred climates " (the digestive tract). I don't have micro experience in a slaughterhouse so am not familiar with exact Quality Control (QC) reasoning there. Hope this helps. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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