Guest guest Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 >>>>HI Everyone, This raises some questions (such as how'd the chinese eat cooked carbs & be OK). And what about fermentation w/this process? Deeper truths will be revealed in time. It's interesting though. . . ***Ken, my initial thought is the preparation method. I see that boiled carbs were not mentioned in this article and am wondering if *wet* cooking may not produce this level of acrylamides. That's something I'd really like to know, (especially as I sit here at the moment with a belly full of boiled potatoes!) The article specifically states " " Fried, oven-baked and deep-fried potato and cereal products may contain high levels of acrylamide, " Which is why I'm left wondering about boiling or steaming... I would also really like to read the original research on this to get a better sense of whether the acrylamides are produced by the *oils* used in the cooking, or just the potatoes and grains, OR, if it's a *combination* of the oil and carb-rich food. Suze Fisher Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 At 09:03 PM 4/24/2002 -0400, you wrote: >The article specifically states " " Fried, oven-baked and deep-fried potato >and cereal products may contain high levels of acrylamide, " >Which is why I'm left wondering about boiling or steaming... The text on the website reads: High levels of acrylamide were found in carbohydrates that are fried or baked, suggesting the toxin is created during the cooking process. No acrylamide were found in foods that were raw or boiled. So boiled rice would be fine. I also read something to the effect that it is a " fatty acid " , so maybe oil has to be present plus high heat. It sure validates some of the NT principles of " use heat sparingly " though. Baked goods that have oil on them get rather hot. Heidi Schuppenhauer Trillium Custom Software Inc. heidis@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 Chinese eat a lot of vegetables and mostly steamed rice. Most carbs referred to in the study were breads, potato chips, deep fried carbs and cereals. " Problems occur when we are cruel to our grains—when we fractionate them into bran, germ and naked starch; when we mill them at high temperatures; when we extrude them to make crunchy breakfast cereals; and when we consume them without careful preparation. " Remember WAP web site says be kind to your gains. http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/be_kind.html At 08:25 PM 4/24/2002 -0400, you wrote: >HI Everyone, >This raises some questions (such as how'd the chinese eat cooked carbs & be >OK). And what about fermentation w/this process? Deeper truths will be >revealed in time. It's interesting though. . . >Ken, Durham > >Cancer Risk Found in French Fries, Bread > >Wed Apr 24,10:26 AM ET > >By Starck > > >STOCKHOLM (Reuters) - Basic foods eaten by millions around the world such as > >bread, biscuits, potato chips and french fries contain alarmingly high > >quantities of acrylamide, a substance believed to cause cancer, Swedish > >scientists said on Wednesday. > > > >The research carried out at Stockholm University in cooperation with experts > >at Sweden's National Food Administration, a government food safety agency, > >showed that heating of carbohydrate-rich foods, such as potatoes, rice or > >cereals formed acrylamide, a much studied substance classified as a probable > >human carcinogen. > > >The research was deemed so important that the scientists decided on the > >unusual step of going public with their findings before the research had > >been officially published in an academic journal. > > > " I have been in this field for 30 years and I have never seen anything like > >this before, " said Leif Busk, head of the food administration's research > >department. > > >Findings unveiled at a news conference called by the food administration > >showed that an ordinary bag of potato chips may contain up to 500 times more > >of the substance than the top level allowed in drinking water by the World > >Health Organization (news - web sites). > > >French fries sold at Swedish franchises of U.S. fast-food chains Burger King > >Corp and Mc's contained about 100 times the one microgram per liter > >maximum permitted by the WHO for drinking water, the study showed. > > >One milligram, or 0.001 grams, contains 1,000 micrograms. > > >KNOWN HAZARD > > >The Environmental Protection Agency (news - web sites) classifies > >acrylamide, a colorless, crystalline solid, as a medium hazard probable > >human carcinogen. > > >According to the International Agency for Research on Cancer, acrylamide > >induces gene mutations and has been found in animal tests to cause benign > >and malignant stomach tumors. > > >It is also known to cause damage to the central and peripheral nervous > >system. > > > " The discovery (news - web sites) that acrylamide is formed during the > >preparation of food, and at high levels, is new knowledge. It may now be > >possible to explain some of the cases of cancer caused by food, " Busk said. > > > " Fried, oven-baked and deep-fried potato and cereal products may contain > >high levels of acrylamide, " the administration said. > > > " Acrylamide is formed during the preparation of food and occurs in many > >foodstuffs...Many of the analyzed foodstuffs are consumed in large > >quantities, e.g. potato crisps, french fries, fried potatoes, biscuits and > >bread. " > > >Among products analyzed in the study were potato chips made by Finnish > >company CHIPS ABP, whose shares fell 14.5 percent to six-month lows, as well > >as breakfast cereals made by U.S. Kellogg, Quaker Oats Co, part of PepsiCo > >Inc, and Swiss Nestle, and Old El Paso brand tortilla chips. > > > " For us, these are completely new findings which have never before been > >known to the world's foodstuffs industry, " CHIPS ABP said in a statement to > >the Helsinki stock exchange. > > >Stefan sson, marketing manager Burger King's subsidiary in Sweden, told > >Reuters by telephone: " We have received the information and we are > >evaluating what it will mean. " > > >Spokesmen for the other companies mentioned in the research were not > >immediately available for comment. > > >NO PRODUCTS WITHDRAWN > > >Margareta Tornqvist, an associate professor at Stockholm University's > >department of environmental chemistry, said the consumption of a single > >potato crisp could take acrylamide intake up to the WHO maximum for drinking > >water. > > >Busk said, however, that the product analysis based on more than 100 random > >samples was not extensive enough for the administration to recommend the > >withdrawal of any products from supermarket shelves. > > > " Frying at high temperatures or for a long time should be avoided, " Busk > >said, adding: " Our advice to eat less fat-rich products such as french fries > >and crisps, remains valid. " > > >He said the findings applied worldwide, not only to Sweden, as the food raw > >materials used in the analyzes had showed no traces of acrylamide. > > >Swedish authorities had informed the European Commission (news - web sites) > >and EU member countries, Busk said. > > > " It is the first time we have come across such a result. We will evaluate > >this study and look at it but it is important to say that Sweden has not > >withdrawn any products from the market, " said European Commission > >spokeswoman Beate Gminder. > > > " Therefore we'll have to see what the scientific evaluation by our side and > >by scientists in the member states will bring about, " she said. > > >Liliane Abramsson-Zetterberg, a toxicologist at the Swedish food > >administration, said: " The cancer risk from acrylamide is much higher than > >(the levels) we accept for known carcinogens. " > > >But smoking, which is known to cause cancer, remained a bigger risk, she > >said. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 At 07:08 PM 4/24/2002 -0700, you wrote: >At 09:03 PM 4/24/2002 -0400, you wrote: > >The article specifically states " " Fried, oven-baked and deep-fried potato > >and cereal products may contain high levels of acrylamide, " > >Which is why I'm left wondering about boiling or steaming... > >The text on the website reads: > >High levels of acrylamide were found in carbohydrates that are fried or >baked, suggesting the toxin is created during the cooking process. No >acrylamide were found in foods that were raw or boiled. > >So boiled rice would be fine. I also read something to the effect that it >is a " fatty acid " , so maybe oil has to be present plus high heat. > >It sure validates some of the NT principles of " use heat sparingly " though. >Baked goods that have oil on them get rather hot. I also got to thinking about this, and they are talking about " products " . Most packaged products are baked until there is NO water left. A product with water in it (or that is being boiled) cannot generally get above boiling temperature, unless it is being deep-fried (A hot suautee could have the same issue though). Many home-baked goods are baked, but not at high heat and not until they are dry, and most of us don't deep fry. Most " products " , however, are very dry (so they don't get moldy) and usually processed at high heat (for speed), which no doubt causes chemical changes that haven't been noticed before. I agree though, one needs to read the original study. The word " biscuits " threw me off for a bit, until I realized that in England, " biscuit " is a cookie, not that moist doughy thing some people have for breakfast. Commercial cookies are so dry and hard I can't see why anyone gets addicted to them! Heidi Schuppenhauer Trillium Custom Software Inc. heidis@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 At 09:03 PM 4/24/2002 -0400, you wrote: >The article specifically states " " Fried, oven-baked and deep-fried potato >and cereal products may contain high levels of acrylamide, " >Which is why I'm left wondering about boiling or steaming... >>>>>>The text on the website reads: High levels of acrylamide were found in carbohydrates that are fried or baked, suggesting the toxin is created during the cooking process. No acrylamide were found in foods that were raw or boiled. ***Whoops! Missed that line. Thanks Heidi! I assume then, that steaming might not produce them either...I seem to have shifted to mainly *wet* cooking lately...maybe my body's telling me " enough already with the acrylamides! " Suze Fisher Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 > > > I also got to thinking about this, and they are talking about " products " . > Most packaged products are baked until there is NO water left. A product > with water in it (or that is being boiled) cannot generally get above > boiling temperature, unless it is being deep-fried (A hot suautee could > have the same issue though). Good point! Excellent thoughts. I wonder how steaming would fit into this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 > High levels of acrylamide were found in carbohydrates that are fried or > baked, suggesting the toxin is created during the cooking process. No > acrylamide were found in foods that were raw or boiled. This would also probably validate much of the anti-microwave stuff that I've been somewhat skeptical of. Since microwaves heat food by creating tiny points of incredibly intense heat that quickly diffuse into surrounding material, the heat would most likely be high enough to create at least as much acrylamide as other methods do.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 > Good point! Excellent thoughts. I wonder how steaming would fit into > this. *IF* it turns out to be true that it's only formed at temperatures above the boiling point, then steaming should be fine. Steaming actually results in a more gentle heat than boiling, doesn't it? Each steam particle should be in the neighborhood of 212 degrees (depending on altitude and barometric pressure) just like the boiling water, but since the volume of heated water is so low by comparison, the heat transfer should be more gradual and still never rise above 212, right? Pressure cooking, on the other hand, could be a problem depending on what temperature the acrylamides begin forming at and how much pressure/heat is used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 At 07:20 AM 4/25/2002 -0400, you wrote: >***Whoops! Missed that line. Thanks Heidi! >I assume then, that steaming might not produce them either...I seem to have >shifted to mainly *wet* cooking lately...maybe my body's telling me " enough >already with the acrylamides! " I'm beginning to really believe that your body DOES detect most of the bad stuff, but our forebrain gets trained to ignore it. I've been letting my daughter choose her food, mostly, based on some research that little kids tend to choose what they need, if they get a choice that includes good food (I admit, this is based on curiousity on my part: and I REALLY don't want her growing up with the " forbidden fruit " syndrome). Anyway, she starts begging for something like Cheetos that the other kids are eating, I get it for her. She eats a few, and the next day refuses to eat any. I ask her why not, I bought them for her special. " They taste stale " is her answer. She WANTS them because of the ads, and because the other kids have them, but when she eats them, her body tells her they are no good and she just won't eat them. She is 7, and beginning to believe me when I say that most of this stuff is junk, doesn't taste all that good, and that's why I don't buy it. So probably a lot of this " intuitive not proved by science " stuff (like avoiding microwaves) happens when people start paying attention to what their body is saying. Wet cooking is easier too -- you can leave it on the stove for awhile and walk out of the room! (We accidentally burn stuff a lot around here!). I was thinking that actually, those " hunter-gatherer " type folks DIDN'T charbroil everything. They also did a lot of " wrap the animal in a lot of leaves, bury it, and build a big fire over it " kind of cooking, (Luau style) which strikes me as a whole lot easier than turning an goat on a spit for hours. I'm told it is also very tasty! I also was watching a show where some Eskimos were cooking dinner. They stretched a carabou hide over a fire, filled it with water, and boiled a bunch of big hunks of meat and fat in it. Heidi Schuppenhauer Trillium Custom Software Inc. heidis@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 > > Good point! Excellent thoughts. I wonder how steaming would fit into > > this. > > *IF* it turns out to be true that it's only formed at temperatures above the > boiling point, then steaming should be fine. Steaming actually results in a > more gentle heat than boiling, doesn't it? Each steam particle should be in > the neighborhood of 212 degrees (depending on altitude and barometric > pressure) just like the boiling water, but since the volume of heated water > is so low by comparison, the heat transfer should be more gradual and still > never rise above 212, right? You have left out the latent heat of vaporization required to change the boiling water from liquid to gas (steam). This gives the steam a much greater heat capacity than water (even while both are at 212F). That is why steaming cooks faster: more heat transfer in less time. But your contention still holds with respect to acrylamides since the steam at atmospheric pressure remains at 212F. Portland, OR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 It sounds like we should be looking into some of the Chinese steamed pastries. There's a naturally-fermented rice cake I used to make (white rice and sugar, but could be adapted). The NT baking recipes tend to use a low oven, though the baking times are longer than they need to be. Maybe the low oven reduces the amount of carcinogens. -- Quick www.en.com/users/jaquick " Representative government -- where many crooks get to vote one crook into office. " --ny Hart in the comic strip " B.C. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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