RE: Fish Stock 1st Attempt

[Guest guest]

> I started making the Oriental Fish Stock as per NT at 1630

> yesterday. I doubled the recipe and used Turbot (at least that's

> what the guy said he gave me!). Its been simmering since then, and

> my whole house smells like fish! I can only hope that the resultant

> stock tastes better than it smells! I've been skimming every so

> often, so I hope that helped the taste a bit. Has anybody tried this

> stuff before? Any advice or comments?

I don't have a copy of the book handy, but I thought the fish stocks were

only supposed to be simmered for like 30-60 minutes??? Longer exposure to

high heat was bad because of the volatile essential fatty acids, I

thought...

[Guest guest]

NT actually suggests simmering for at least 4 and up to 24

hours! I plan to go for about 20 hours to get the most out of the

bones and cartilaginous tissues. The book calls for non-oily fish so

that the oil rancidity factor doesn't become a problem. I decided to

skim and discard whatever oil collected on the surface of the stock

at irregular intervals. The stock looks pretty good, but " smells

terrible " (according to my wife). I've also been monitoring the temp

and it has never exceeded 212 degrees F. I hope it turns out well,

and I'll keep the group posted.

Dan

> I don't have a copy of the book handy, but I thought the fish

stocks were

> only supposed to be simmered for like 30-60 minutes??? Longer

exposure to

> high heat was bad because of the volatile essential fatty acids, I

> thought...

[Guest guest]

hi, dan and scott--

i've made the fish stock 3-4 times and have always simmered for 24

hrs, per NT. the last time i made it (with croaker heads, which my

seafd mkt manager cousin had brought for my dog. i gave my dog the

huge grouper head and kept the croaker heads for myself, much to the

disgust of my cousin), i was too tired to mess with it, so i just let

it simmer for a full week.

it became very dark, but i think that it is quite tasty. and i

actually miss the aroma in the house.

i only skim 2x: once at the beginning of making the stock and again

when i use the stock. mine will only foam up if it comes to a boil

(which is at the beginning of cooking)...are you still getting scum

on yours, dan? i do think that the shrimp shells cause more foaming,

but i always get it all off in the beginning.

did i do wrong by letting it simmer for a wk??

allene

[Guest guest]

e,

Wow, a whole week, eh? I think simmering that long definitely

resulted in more minerals and cartilage compounds, but I worry that

the long cooking time could also result in denaturing those same

beneficial substances, not to mention an excess of rancid

polyunsaturates. But, if it tastes good, I'd like to think that it's

good for you. I'm sure it has a very high gelatin content, which is

definitely beneficial. I only saw foam once, upon bringing the stock

to a boil, but I occasionally stirred the contents of the pot and

then skimmed the oil and film that formed soon afterwards. I read

somewhere that skimming was the secret to a great stock. You miss

the aroma? Hmmmm.... Maybe I should use a different kind of fish

next time. As it is, I don't know how I'm going to get the smell out

of my house. Next time, I think I'll use an exhaust fan.

Dan

> hi, dan and scott--

>

> i've made the fish stock 3-4 times and have always simmered for 24

> hrs, per NT. the last time i made it (with croaker heads, which my

> seafd mkt manager cousin had brought for my dog. i gave my dog the

> huge grouper head and kept the croaker heads for myself, much to

the

> disgust of my cousin), i was too tired to mess with it, so i just

let

> it simmer for a full week.

>

> it became very dark, but i think that it is quite tasty. and i

> actually miss the aroma in the house.

>

> i only skim 2x: once at the beginning of making the stock and again

> when i use the stock. mine will only foam up if it comes to a boil

> (which is at the beginning of cooking)...are you still getting scum

> on yours, dan? i do think that the shrimp shells cause more

foaming,

> but i always get it all off in the beginning.

>

> did i do wrong by letting it simmer for a wk??

> allene

[Guest guest]

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>I don't have a copy of the book handy, but I thought the fish stocks were

>only supposed to be simmered for like 30-60 minutes??? Longer exposure to

>high heat was bad because of the volatile essential fatty acids, I

>thought...

Since the fat is removed from all stocks, I don't think it's a big

deal. They do call for non-oily fish, though, and cooking for up to 24

hours. I made some regular (non-Oriental) fish stock per the NT recipe

awhile ago -- I cooked it for 24 hours and it worked out fine. My kitchen

did smell slightly fishy, but not at all rancid.

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[Guest guest]

> Since the fat is removed from all stocks, I don't think it's a big

> deal. They do call for non-oily fish, though, and cooking for up to 24

> hours. I made some regular (non-Oriental) fish stock per the NT recipe

> awhile ago -- I cooked it for 24 hours and it worked out fine. My kitchen

> did smell slightly fishy, but not at all rancid.

That may be. It's still a bizarre recipe though. Every other fish or

shellfish stock recipe that I've ever seen has simmered for between 30 and

60 minutes...never longer. It may not be dangerous to do it longer, but it

certainly is odd...

[Guest guest]

e-

>i was too tired to mess with it, so i just let

>it simmer for a full week.

I assume you kept adding water, right...? A full WEEK? It didn't taste, I

don't know, burnt?

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[Guest guest]

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>Every other fish or

>shellfish stock recipe that I've ever seen has simmered for between 30 and

>60 minutes...never longer. It may not be dangerous to do it longer, but it

>certainly is odd...

Perhaps, but don't traditional Asian stock recipes involve long cooking? I

think I remember reading that in many families, the pot would never even

come off the fire -- they'd just keep adding ingredients as they removed stock.

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[Guest guest]

> Perhaps, but don't traditional Asian stock recipes involve long cooking?

I

> think I remember reading that in many families, the pot would never even

> come off the fire -- they'd just keep adding ingredients as they removed

stock.

Possibly, but I don't know for sure. I'm inclined to doubt that for fish

stocks, though. It would depend somewhat too on the culture. Japanese

dashi, for example, has an extremely brief cooking time.

[Guest guest]

hi, paul, dan, and scott--

> I assume you kept adding water, right...? >

i did a couple of times, but then i realized that i would prefer it

more concentrated. plus, it didn't really seem to be decreasing too

much in volume, so it wasn't that concentrated after all. my range

here has a *very* good range, better than at my parents': the low is

very low, and the high is so high that i can barely use it.

about halfway through i added some celery and zucchini.

< A full WEEK?>

i started it on a tues, and i really did mean just to let it go for 1-

2 days (earlier some people had mentioned letting their stocks go for

48hrs), but this was right after my fall, so i just kept putting it

off and putting it off until i finally thought, " hell, just let it go

for a wk. " i turned off the burner the following tues.

> It didn't taste, I don't know, burnt? >

LOL; not at all. you scientific people probably would know this

better than i, but i imagine that only a dry heat would give a burnt

taste, right?

i've made oyster stew, a chicken/rice/asparagus soup, and rice with

it, and i have no complaints whatsoever. exception: it did not gel.

but i have not gotten a single (24-hr) fish stock to gel.

caution: remove gills before giving fish heads to dog. delilah, at

least, cannot handle them.

allene

[Guest guest]

e-

>LOL; not at all. you scientific people probably would know this

>better than i, but i imagine that only a dry heat would give a burnt

>taste, right?

If enough of the liquid evaporated some of the solid could char, but I

guess you didn't have much evaporation, hard as that is to imagine based on

my stove and even my slow cookers.

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